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The ATS Issues Thread

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posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 03:22 PM
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

The one thing that belies that as a lie, Peeps.

Bill (and Co.) has always treated his detractors as people and with calm respect.

That speaks volumes.

*(Even the most ardent detractor in a forum here was allowed back in and welcomed into the fold after promising to play nice. When I say ardent, I'm abusing understatement.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 03:47 PM
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

I think that you made the wrong call . Let me explain why I think this is this case . As has already been established the internet gives some people a degree of anonymity(SP?) . Some people abuse this anonymity and what you have encountered appears to be an extreme case of this which must at least be close to slander . If you don't take legal action ATS and its owners will continue to face such BS .

Also by not take legal action you may give the impression that the allegations are true . Just to be clear that is an observation not an accusation . Also outside of the internet it is possible to stick up for people you respect . That isnt an option for members because it would lead to board wars . Freedom of speech or expression just doesn't cut it sometimes .

Respectfully xpert11.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 04:04 PM
reply to post by Badge01

To deny and ignore speaks volumes as well.

The trio of the trinity know better than get into a pissing match within there domain. It's bad for business.

Simply put, I am here, in part, of a system that works numbers for cash. I really don't care about the systems power levels to manage the rabble and its cash flow, but I do care about having had my worldshadow account dashed on the rocks with no response as to why and continualy be ignored when I use the systems internal measure of checks and balances, which the system so gloriously has in place for remedy in such event.

Is this a standard by which the written word is willed into silence by powers of the trinity over the rabble. Is there any wonder why voices rise up to over throw the powers. It seems the lesson here is never learned.

Ignore people and they go away with an unhappy story, deny the issues and people will suspect the worst. Combine the two and you have big troubles.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 05:07 PM
reply to post by xpert11

I disagree. Those who make accusations behind the shield of internet anonymity don't deserve response. If they have genuine complaints they will make them publicly and let all know who they are. After all, what do they have to hide?

I've experienced similar problems with 'disaffected' members of a charity I run - they're very vocal anonymously on the internet, but would never dream of attending a public meeting let alone let other members know who they are ....

Some people like to complain and are never happy unless everyone agrees with their world view. And take delight in causing discord ....

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 06:45 PM
Hiyah SO and Springer and all,

I just read your post SO about "standing down" on some sort of slander or libelous material being posted elsewhere on other sites about you all.

I disagree with you on this one SO...but it's your money, your neck on the chopping block. If it's a clear "slam dunk" as you say your legal counsel told you it was, then your decision to "stand down" goes against everything you and Springer have worked for IMO.

There's no reason for your heart to ache and for you to lose sleep over this, and I figure the only reason you are is because you know deep in your heart you're making the wrong decision.

Fight the good fight if you're right. Never stand down. Ever.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 07:24 PM
This is a difficult one, but I believe that you have made the right decision here. To take it legal would just add more fuel to the fire that these 'people' are stoking. At least you know that if it does get worse you have a decent, solid case.

I respect, and have respected for a long time what this site stands for and I appreciate what you're trying to do here by being the bigger party.

The majority of the membership I'm sure will respect this and not get into any type of slanging match, however...I must confess to getting rather annoyed with some of the twitter updates that keep hitting my mobile phone.

As a community we are better than this. Let those who hate bear the frustration. Let those of us who wish to to continue in the tradition of ATS do just that and realise that Bill, Mark, Simon et al, know what they are doing - well - their lawyers do anyway.



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 08:57 PM
I am suprised it has come this far, I am sure that you (S.O., Springer, Simon, Etc) have done all that could be done as far as a free and unobstructive exchainge of ideas between yourselves and your detractors. I admire the way that you all have handled yourselves in this situation and it should go as an example to everyone the tolerance that is present here.

That being said, I also feel that it can be seen as an honor to have detractors to your site, this means the content of this site has deffinatly rubbed someone the wrong way.

As the site that is mentioned is filled with former members disgruntled at being banned from this site shows the exact mentality of those that were banned to begin with.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:07 PM

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
We almost engaged in a lawsuit against our detractors...

In fact, we came so close as to smell the fresh ink on paper.

If we were to move forward with this legal action, I and all those who work to further the goals of ATS would forever lose a small piece of our soul. And that is a price beyond compare that we cannot endure.

Nice call - I made the same decision.

It is a classic spook tactic, to tie people and organisations up in endless legal wranglings - and at the end of the day - the problem doesn't go away. You just gotta do what I do, put it out there - and let people who still have an attention span decide for themselves.

I would point out though, that ATS is a public forum where people and their reputations are allowed to be thoroughly trashed, and with mob-like glee. I've even seen the forum moderators and site owners actively add to the kicking on at least one thread.

Given that there are plenty of lies and defamatory material spread about various high-profile people on ATS, I cannot imagine why you surprised or even hurt, to see the same genre of material about ATS and yourselves being discussed elsewhere.



posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:23 PM

Originally posted by LateApexer313
Fight the good fight if you're right. Never stand down. Ever.

Thanks for your comments, but I feel that sometimes the "good fight" is larger and longer term than the intermittent little squabbles that occupy our daily concerns. Being a front-and-center advocate for free expression is that long term good fight.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:31 PM
I love this site! I have tried to change your mind before Sir... and it does not work. You have made a difficult decision in the best interests of the ATS community... and I for one stand by you. The world needs more "good karma" these days, and I think you have taken the high road on this one.

Bright Blessings to you and yours S.O.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:36 PM
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Do people have the right to lie and cause hurt?

There comes a time when a broken nose is the right medicine.

Your call, I'm just sayin'.


posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:47 PM
SO and the rest of the staff.

I hope all works out for you. I may complain now and again but you guys rock in my book.

I just wanted to voice my support.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 09:54 PM
reply to post by SkepticOverlord


I'm sure it was a tough decision.

I'm sure the jerks deserved a heavy court judgment against them.

I'm sure it will be . . . less than ideal no matter which way one goes in such situations.

But it blesses me to see that I've read your personality right.

And it blesses me to see that you run this place as I thought you did.

God's best to you and all your loved ones.

posted on Jul, 25 2008 @ 10:18 PM
A philosopher would probably say "What you say may well be true, but why should it be the truth?" If someone wants to believe that ATS are COINTELPRO; then let them believe it. It's more noble to let someone think they are right even if you know they are not.

[edit on 25/7/08 by MacDonagh]

posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 02:45 AM
Fightin the man since 1984. Awesome SO. I applaud your decision and im sure it was a tough one. As one other poster said, let the people who run that site put themselves in the public eye as you 3 have. (and other Mods too)

Your decision was one of both freedom and integrity and it deserves applause from all members who freely use this site on a daily basis.

Since theres no clappin gif, the 3 amigos get 3 thumbs up.


posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 09:43 AM
I too echo your stand ATS.

ATS members sit comfortably behind their anonymity, whereas the trio stand open and unprotected.

Their reputations and personal lives are open to the scum of humanity.

I would like to stand beside the staff here at ATS and will reveal my name, if need be, to further commit my loyalty to ATS.

I am a ATS'er and proud of it.

posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 10:25 AM
reply to post by SkepticOverlord

Yes I understand your decision. But I would bet that if you fought and won as you said your legal counsel advised that you would, I bet it would stop any other nonsense that might go on in the future and send a message.

But yes it might take a while and considerable expense. So I can see why you thought long and hard about it and decided to drop it. Anyway, sorry you all are having such problems, how ridiculous that it comes down to adults acting like morons.

posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 11:32 AM
Having just become aware of the issues, and reading the information here, I wanted to chime in on my support of SO, et al.

As long as others express opinion and make no unfounded accusations of specific wrong-doing, they have the right to do so.

And if they start making unfounded accusations, answer on record (as has been done, it would seem) and move on. The attention they get is what they seek, and the more elevated the response, the more attention they get.

So, rather than take the bait, "standing down" (walking away with disinterest! [grin]) is a much better choice. It leaves the other with nothing. No attention; no satisfaction.

I won't be checking out ATSWatch, taking the word of a number of posters here, because I won't give them hits.

My 2 pennies.

posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 11:46 AM
Fear not the implications, but know many would not do as their told if sent to stand before a jury.

This just proves what a Great Site ATS IS.


"You may take our lives but you will NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOM"


posted on Jul, 26 2008 @ 01:53 PM
SO if they continue their push and try to blacken the name of ATS any more, will you then go down the legal route?

Why Do I Ask

All publicity, even bad, is publicity.

Well I work in PR (sort of) (well a side line of it) and it would be good advertising for the site if it made the mainstream media, your ratings and membership would go over the top.

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