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The ATS Issues Thread

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posted on Aug, 25 2009 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by ArMaP
 


Thanks man, weren't sure whether it'd been tried or not




posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 05:31 PM
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I've been addressed by one of the staff members to write here and my original thread was closed. I hope this post won't go unnoticed by the highest staff members (admins and owners) because my issue actually is addressed only to them. Here is the original thread which I named What is with the arrogance?



Hi ATS staff

I'm opening this thread as a concern for some of the staff's actions in this board. As a long time member (had a different name before but changed to this one in 2006) I've seen through the years some actions that don't honor this board and the staff and especially are a clear slap to the face of the members. Certain topics are very delicate and require sometimes 'harsh' intervention from mods, smod and admins and as far as my understanding goes, this actions have been welcomed from the membership. But sometimes we see things that don't really fit with what is known to be the ATS modus operandi and really give the members a bitter taste of arrogance, disrespect and censorship. We all know that ATS differently from most of the boards on the net, offers a clear view of free speech, free and alternative thinking, honest debate and opposition and on top of everything names it self (and rightfully so) the biggest Conspiracy Board online. That being said, every subject of conspiracy that generates debate is within the boundaries of this site and part of it and that the reason why we have that number of members that we do.

Unfortunately though, few times some of the subjects are being shut off and erased from the board and the most important, when questions are raised from the membership for such actions, we're faced with an arrogance that is unjustifiable and makes one really think if this is an individual action from an irresponsible staff member or a hidden policy (God forbid) that comes into play every time someone opens a thread dimmed ''dangerous'' and which could generate ''remarkable and racist'' comments of any kind. I've noticed that few threads are to sensitive to stay open and even to be visible in the board. Yesterday a member opened this thread: The Zionists Censor Another One!!! which was closed today with a very offensive answer. I'm quoting few lines from the thread and the concern raised by the member:


This is not the first, not the second, not the tenth or even the twentieth - I have seen dozens upon dozens of anti-zionist jewish threads vanish into the ether of the "404" error message. Why? Anti-Palestinian threads - fine! Anti-Muslim threads - fine! Anti-American threads - fine! Anti-Catholic threads - fine! But the second you point out that "Jew" isn't a race and begin exploring the background on the Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews, the Zionist World Congress, the Balfour Declaration and such - BAM - 404! It disappears into 404.


And here it comes the answer from one of smods of the board:


...we're waiting to see what our opinion/response is...once we receive it from our Zionist Controllers, and picked up our big fat Zionist Cheque from the Zionist Bank...we'll be sure to respond...


...is that the response people are looking for???




Seriously people - get a grip.

The poster of the thread in question will know which Mod locked/trashed or moved it.

Maybe they should be the ones asking.


*what? our Zionist Controllers have just sent through the order to lock?? okay*


*LOCKED*



I might not agree totally with the way the concern was addressed but is this the answer a smod shoud give to the members? Is this the kind of arrogance and offensive behavior that we deserve? Once again, I'm not concerned about the veracity or not of the problem. What bothers me as a member of this board is this lack of respect toward the membership and the arrogantly use of commands in the forum. We all know that a mod, smod and admin can delete, lock threads, ban members (permanently or temporary) edit posts, give warnings... and so on. And we all agree and applause the staff when they apply this measures within the norms and standards of T&C. But it doesn't take much of an effort to consider someone's concern and answer to the questions in a more decent way. At the end of the day, we all are part of a this big community and if we can't respect each other's opinions (being a staff member or just a member of the board) and address our concerns where can be heard and rightfully respected then soon this conspiracy forum will lose the purpose for which was created. The membership now is very big and is important to remember that is this membership that makes this site so great and popular.

I hope I've made my self clear. I respect the staff for what they do and I know that is a volunteer job and each of them has other and more important things to do in their daily lives. What I gently ask is some more respect and consideration for the members, no matter what their concern is.

Thanks.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 05:52 PM
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I have two "foes" in my profile who are banned members. These members are banned (for good reason ) why must they remain forever in my profile when they are not members any more. Should all banned members be removed from other still existing members profiles do you think??? After all it was they that became banned not me, yet I still have to see them EVERY time I look at my profile.....
I just want rid of them...is this too much to ask ATS????? I understand some may see this as petty but believe me for me it is not.




posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by Mr Green
I just want rid of them...is this too much to ask ATS????? I understand some may see this as petty but believe me for me it is not.



Simmer down. Go to your profile, and click on the tiny red X on thier name and poof away they go.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by FredT
 


I think that he means that the banned member had added HIM as a foe. Those foes cannot be removed, unfortunately. To my knowledge. I have a few people who added me as a foe who are banned, as well. Or at least one person.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 08:55 PM
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reply to post by Telos
 


I have to agree with you on your points. While it is acceptable to push anti Muslim or anti Palestinian issues no matter how reprehensible, virtually all anti Zionist posters get banned sooner or later.

I suspect is a product of a convergence of mod and smod politico-religious beliefs and Israeli supporters on this forum.

While it is eminently acceptable to criticise Arabs, Muslims and Palestinians amongst Americans, criticisms of Israel and its wars still has shock value.

More importantly, despite what ATS management claims, it faces the prospects of its commercial interests being cut off at the knees if there is too much criticism of Israel.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by onoffon
 


I don't see how you could make that assesment with only having been here 3 days?

Furthermore, I don't think that ATS is funded by any Zionist regime...

~Keeper



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by onoffon
 


I don't see how you could make that assesment with only having been here 3 days?

Furthermore, I don't think that ATS is funded by any Zionist regime...

~Keeper


I have been reading quite a bit of the threads for several months.

Who says that ATS is financed by any Zionist regimes? Most likely if ATS allows members to get out of hand, business may get hard to do. This problem could be exasperated in many ways. No one is immune to this including tenure professors, newspapers, politicians, and the average joe. Death by a thousand cuts.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 09:22 PM
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reply to post by Telos
 


Hi Telos,

Firstly - thank you for posting your thread content here in ATS Issues. I do appreciate you were effectively given little choice due to the locking and redirection here...but thank you sincerely all the same.

Thank you also for bring my reply to the attention of the Site Owners, and wider ATS Community - as it also allows me a chance to respond in some way.

I certainly appreciate that my reply wasn't 'professional'. And indeed perhaps there is quite an expectation that any SuperMod here on ATS should remain professional at all times.
However - and really I also acknowledge this is no excuse - to expect so is to also dismiss one of the core realities that even us Staff are human and occasionally have human responses.

With that in mind, I'll also say this:
I am more than happy to bear the consequences of my actions, and of what and how I post here on ATS.
If the Site Owners so deem it appropriate that any subsequent consequences are removal of SuperMod status, so be it. There will be no anonimosity on my part...after all...it IS about responsibility also. Be we Member or be we Mod.

Like you I have also been an ATS Member for many years. Right from the old eziboard days.
I've been a part of the furniture for around 9 years and a Mod for coming up 8 years.
So like you I also hold a whole bunch of love and *investment* in this place.
The other thing I'd like to put out there is that the Site Owners, the Staff, are people I've come to also know and love over the years...like any team you draw closer, you share many things and events *outside of ATS*...in many ways the Staff here function like a family.
We've been part of eachothers weddings, births, deaths...much of our lives outside of this site are shared with eachother via this site.
So yes, I hold a lot of love for them as well.


I also wish to acknowledge and thank you for bringing up another very pertinent point: Respect.

I acknowledge and yes apologise for the disrespect shown by myself.

However - and people may class this as petty - respect is also in many ways a double-edged sword.


I appreciate that Members often see Staff acting with perceived Bias. I can appreciate that Members feel frustrated having threads locked or removed.
I can appreciate that Members may also suspect that there is some deeper hidden agenda behind what a Staff Member may do...hey, after all, this is a Conspiracy Website.

But I'll be real honest here as well - what I don't appreciate is when I see what I'd consider disrespect of this site, the Site Owners and the Staff who give their time - just as you do - to this site.

What I don't appreciate is when replies start firing accusations and inferences that the Staff - people whom I know and love - are in some way operating with a Zionist/Nazi/MSM/CIA/NSA/Insert-Whomever-Here Agenda.
What I don't appreciate is when replies start effectively putting in the boot on Staff and casting aspersions upon what we do, how we think and who we are.
For being Staff those aspersions and accusations are also - either directly or indirectly - against me also.

Now...again...I appreciate that as a SuperMod there is some expectation that we should 'turn the other cheek' or 'rise above that'.
But again to expect us to do so all the time is something I'd fail to see as possible.


As said: Respect. Its a double-edged sword. People can demand or expect respect (again be they Member or be they Mod)...but what levels of respect and/or disrespect do we as Staff get shown??

I think people would be surprised just how much mud gets slung at this site and its Staff in threads and via u2us directly to us.

I acknowledge you point about Community. And like any community there does need to be a little bit of understanding and give-and-take...certainly acknowledge that I personally, and Staff as a whole, can always be more understanding.
But I'd also encourage ATS Members to ALSO be more understanding.
Understanding that mudslinging and sticking in the sidejabs DOES affect Staff too.
Understand that respect does need to go both ways...so if we're all just a little bit less quick to put in the boot, to sling the mud, to cast aspersions and accusations, then perhaps Staff would also be less quick to drop the hammer.

This may well be a Conspiracy Website - but not everything is a Conspiracy.



...again, thank you...sincerely...



Peace.


[edit on 26-8-2009 by alien]



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 09:33 PM
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reply to post by alien
 




What he said.
.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 10:22 PM
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PLEASE HELP, I need to find a thread that has the complete (or) partial list of the ATS:MIX shows. I came across it about a month ago, but can't seem to find it. I should have subscribed.

Note to add... Thought I would post here rather than create a thread



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 10:31 PM
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reply to post by Scooby Doo
 


this should show them all:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 10:45 PM
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reply to post by alien
 


The problem wasn't Zionists own ATS, you added that yourself.

The problem was that this topic has been made so touchy that even at free speech outlets, members are being censored and mocked, as shown here at this board.

Even here at ATS, threads that contain good arguments are DELETED, so that they may never be found again.

This while other not so sensitive topics are just locked, so they go into ATS public archives and can be found after a simple search.

What gives? What is ATS afraid of? Can we help?

If the topic can never be discussed and there is a problem, how is it ever going to be solved?

[edit on 26-8-2009 by breakingdradles]



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 10:46 PM
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reply to post by JacKatMtn
 


Hi there, thanks for the reply. The ATS:MIX forum board shares Politics Podcasts and BTS:MIX shows. The thread I am looking for how ever has all the ATS:MIX in a chronological numbered order.



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 10:50 PM
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reply to post by Scooby Doo
 


You can always go to the ATSMIX member profile to see the last 150 threads authored in chrono order.

Or you can just click here.


[edit on 26 Aug 2009 by schrodingers dog]



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by Scooby Doo
 


not sure about chronological but maybe this is closer to what you are seeking?

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Aug, 26 2009 @ 11:40 PM
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reply to post by breakingdradles
 


Actually the problem was that the thread was 10 pages of some of the most disgusting attacks ever posted on this forum.

Attacks including name calling of other members, questioning other members' integrity, calling for the deaths of thousands on both sides of the middle east conflict, and making implications about the motives of fellow members.

That is not acceptable behavior and the action taken in response to such behavior is not open to debate.

We appreciate the input of our members and their concerns and we have quite a few avenues available for our members to make those concerns heard, however for some reason those are never utilized.

If a member wishes to discuss why a topic seems to be having trouble being discussed that member can submit a complaint, can email the site ownership, can u2u staff members... but instead we get threads posted like "the zionist censors closed another one!"

For many years we've seen people come and go who have decided that they have exposed the TRUTH. They have figured it all out. If you were a Bush supporter and one of your threads was trashed - ATS was owned and run by liberals. If you hated Bush and you got warned for something - ATS was owned and run by neocons and was out to get you. If a UFO related thread was trashed - ATS was owned by the CIA and was silencing the truth. If we trash a pro-Israel thread - ATS is a bunch of Nazis, and if we trash an anti-Israel thread - ATS is owned by evil Jewish bankers.

What's funniest about all of that stupidity in the above paragraph is that many of those accusations, while contradictory, come in at the same time. So for those keeping score we are Nazi-Jewish-Liberal-Neocon-CIA Agents. Why? Because we choose to moderate threads to a certain standard. From an outsider's perspective it's funny, from a new staff member's perspective it's perplexing, from a veteran staff member's perspective it's repetitive and annoying.

The element in common with all of those baseless attacks on the integrity of ATS is that not one of the people who posts those attacks has ever expressed enough interest or showed enough effort to wish to discuss this with the staff before going bonkers with attacks.

Perhaps a u2u or a complaint asking why the thread in question was trashed would have been a more constructive way to approach the situation rather than posting numerous threads questioning the motives and integrity of the staff?

For the benefit of those who have just signed up recently I will repeat something I've said many times before: our staff is comprised of more than 50 volunteers from all different walks of life in all different countries representing many different political viewpoints and opinions on just about everything. Trying to find an issue that every staff member agrees on is as difficult to do as trying to find an issue that every member agrees on.

We have a very strict rule that every member of our staff (including the owners) abide by, and that is that a staff member is absolutely forbidden from taking "moderator" action in a thread they are participating in. This is done to keep things neutral. Obviously our staff are human and have their own opinions on world issues, just like everyone else, but we do not want to give the impression that someone was warned etc. due to arguing with a staff member.

Additionally, all staff actions are discussed before being implemented, all actions are logged, and records are kept of everything, including trashed threads which is how the thread complained about above was reviewed.

We have spent many years working on a multilevel formula for our moderation here and it suits us very well. The vast majority of our membership is happy with the job done by the staff and our volunteer staff enjoys doing the job. We accept criticism and suggestions as no one is perfect but criticism and suggestions does not equal accusations and attacks.

As far as outside influences go, we've been threatened and criticized by outside groups and by other forums before. We will continue to do the best job we can. If removing threads that devolve into slugfests and calls for genocide upset some outside group, that's not of any interest to us. If our efforts at making our forum a civil place where people can enjoy good conversation upsets the members of some other forum... that's not of any interest to us either.

We're doing the best we can with subject matter that often brings about high emotional response. We appreciate all civilized suggestions from those who actually care.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 12:32 AM
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reply to post by alien
 


Alien, thank you for answering so openly and sincerely to my concern. I appreciate your honesty and humility to accept any consequence for your actions (even though didn't ask for beheading or you being penalized). I do understand the pressure and especially the right to be wrong as all of us. I my self am a smod in a forum and I know very well how hard is sometime dealing with certain issues and certain members. However I wasn't absolutely talking about that. Breaking the rules is something that has to be punished within T&C and I applause any decision made by the staff. What I meant is that certain subjects are very sensitive at the point to disappear from the board (deleted or locked) and members who ask why did that happen, often are left unanswered, ignored or treated (and I'm talking about threads that were really an example of civil behavior and mature discussions) in the way we're debating for. I do agree with you that even though this is a conspiracy site, not everything is a conspiracy. But when I read in this conspiracy site about how just a simple rock on Mars can be an artifact left from a alien civilization, or how Obama is the Antichrist, or how Dick Cheney is a shape shifting reptilian or how Muslims are the evil (I am a christian btw) or... I can go on forever, then a thread that deals with judaisem or certain jews as part of a conspiracy for the global control etc... has the same rights to be discussed and talked in this board. I've seen this kind of censorship when it comes to thread about holocaust, jews, their control, them being blamed for something and to be honest I always laughed with the OP because I knew how it would have ended (as actually always does). Why? I thought since this board is with an international membership, everybody has the same rights and we're all the same. Aren't we members of a great forum who broke the boundaries of countries, ideologies, mentalities and got us all together to put to rest our differences and learn how to 'coexist' in peace and in understanding? And most of all, aren't we members of a forum named as the Biggest Conspiracy board on the net? Once again I know very well what a conspiracy is and by definition the subject which we're dealing with constitutes a conspiracy.


The International-Communist-Judaeo-Masonic Conspiracy, sometimes called the international-marxist-judaeo-masonic conspiracy, or simply the judaeo-masonic conspiracy, is a conspiracy theory involving a secret coalition of Jews, freemasons, and communists.

en.wikipedia.org...



This is just an example to prove my point. My self I don't care expressing my opinion in such threads because what I personally thing is something that cannot be changed by no actions of arrogance, avoidance or silence.

Thanks for the time spent in answering to me.



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 01:01 AM
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reply to post by Djarums
 


You again just did the same thing as alien.

Who said anything about Jewish bankers? Just you it seems.

Who said ATS was owned by anyone?

Lets go look, OH WAIT, YOU GUYS DELETED IT.

Again, the thread was about how you cannot discuss the topic and the ramifications of not being able to, and surprise surprise, it got deleted. The thread about it's disappearance, which ended abruptly with a mod mocking fellow members, was locked so others can see it still.

If you agree that threads are bashed by the opposition throughout many topics, why are those threads locked and threads that have the word israel in it deleted, never to be found on ATS servers again?

Surely there has been much more harsh and nasty insults between members in liberal vs conservative debates as of late and also a much larger quantity, I've seen it myself.

Those threads rarely get stopped, and if they do they are locked, not deleted and 404'd never to be read again.

If you think some one is doing wrong or even hurting someone else, what kind of world do we live in if you can't even say anything due solely to the religion this person chose?

I know many good Jewish people, I actually live with one, so why can't I speak out against the ones I think are hurting people as I would no matter what religion they practiced?

Another thing that happens here that mods also take part in, is confusing a story about israel as a anti-Jew story, and treat it as if it was a pro-Hitler article. This needs to stop.

Time after time, these threads 404, even when started as a pro israeli thread, while other topics get locked, placing them in the public ATS archives, to be found with a simple search.

People are starting to notice.

[edit on 27-8-2009 by breakingdradles]



posted on Aug, 27 2009 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by breakingdradles
 


Perhaps you missed the title of the thread: The Zionists Censor Another One!!!

Or the OPs opening sentence within the thread:


Well, here we go again! The second someone comes out about the truth regarding the Zionist Jews, the thread is immediately "404ed". Makes me wonder who is running ATS?


Or the general tone of some of the replies within the thread...



Peace.



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