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Are people paid to "steer public opinion on ATS"?

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posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:29 PM
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If there are people posting to ATS specifically to steer the opinion of people here, then they're doing a lousy job. A lot of people who come to this site are knee-jerk reactionaries who won't listen to anybody, or if they do it's only to immediately take the most opposite opinion possible. And there's no amount of logical, rational argument that will change that opinion because those people (and you know who you are) are aggressively nuts.

So it would be just a complete waste of time and money to try to manipulate people in this proud lunatic asylum.




posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:31 PM
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reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed
 

These forums have influence on the general population, maybe not a direct one but eventually certain "chosen" conspiracy theories are entering the mainstream. So it is very logical that if someone will be interested in creating or more important diverting certain conspiracy theories or "masking" new technology as aliens this or similar place will be the target. However i doubt that there is someone targeting ATS only or 100% of the time.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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Actually China had done this.

During the "Spy Plane" incident, there were several Chinese paid to sway the opinions on MSNBC message boards about the topic. It was kind of comical as they couldn't even speak good English.

They were also collecting IP addresses of posters (as MSNBC boards at the time was posting the IP address with the message - idiots).

These IP addresses were later used to send the Code Red worm attack on US IP ranges two weeks before 9/11.

Code Red I did quite a bit of damage and collected more detailed network information for Code Red II. By then, US networks were 'hardened' against Code Red attacks (mainly Microsoft's critical patches), so Code Red II wasn't nearly as devastating.



[edit on 5-5-2008 by jetxnet]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:54 PM
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I would bet there are some people who read and post here that also discuss the same topics with others away from the forum. The thoughts can spread.

I suspect the steering of people's minds is injected everywhere possible. Seems like using the the internet is a cheap date, so to speak.

It's not just for the MSM anymore.

Edit: sp

[edit on 5/5/2008 by roadgravel]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by SonicInfinity
 

you're absolutely right, but i've never thought about it. when i started lurking a few months ago, i could always find, interesting, intelligent threads, that always made me think. but now, it seems like it's more discussion of current events, new threads about stuff that's been posted months ago, and when there is a decent thread, it often escelates into a discussion about the rolling stones, or something else totally irrelevent. is the government trying to deny truth, instead of ignorance, on ats?



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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reply to post by rcwj75
 

AMEN brother



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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When ATS was a small place (some few years ago), there were a lot of dedicated investigators, and some relatively large amount of quality data, and threads.

Unfortunately, and I won't name names... It is pretty obvious, at any rate... As the forum's reputation grew, so did the people coming here to post and joust. And... As in any situation where you gather a large number of people, you find an upper class (can tie shoes without directions), a median (can tie shoes with directions), and lower class (can't find or read directions). That's just the way it is.

Unfortunately, one has to really dig now, alot more than used to was, to find the quality stuff that isn't as stated before, "yes it is... No it ain't... Your Mama sucks buttermilk".

Fortunately, there is still quite a bit of good stuff in, around, over, and under the junk.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:03 PM
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Originally posted by Shazam The Unbowed

You misunderstand, what does the person paying people to post, either to "misdirect" or to discredit" CT's, get out of it? I dont see any benefit to the payee, unless we asume ATS has a hugely outsize effect on public opinion. Again all it would take to "discredit" CT's, is to allow some of the nuttier ones airtime. That special fox did on the "hoaxed moon landings" a few years back did more to "discredit" CT's, than every poster here.



Hey, you have to patch the holes in a crumbling wall so that it stays together.

reply to post by mrwupy
 


You're so evil. =O

reply to post by Nohup
 


But you forget, there are people here who derail threads for pages and pages, and it's only just two or three people talking. No doubt that some of them work together (if the theory of "disinfo agents on ATS" is true).

reply to post by roadgravel
 


The Internet is the cheapest place to get things done. Despite it being digital, you can have a massive effect on those who are ignorant and just listen to what everybody says without thinking.

reply to post by mr. wildflowers
 


I'm not sure, but it's getting rather irritating. It's also irritating to see some threads flagged 50+ times only to see the thread be nothing but fail (discussion-wise) for the most part and some threads that have 0 flags but have more wealth than a lot of the topics on the front page.

reply to post by sigung86
 


True. You do need to remember that some aren't agents; some people really DO come here JUST to troll and try to sway opinions for lulz.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 12:34 AM
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I find your post to be myopic AND condescending, OP. You say, firstly that, "I keep seeing people saying things that are completely irrelevant or just downright illogical." So? People say irrelevant and illogical things ALL THE TIME, and in ALL FACETS OF LIFE. Are all these people shills? Some probably are. Most, however, are either being dumb or flippant, or gadflies (*chalk me up to being all those three at one point or another
)
THEN you say, "I also keep seeing many rehashes of old topics being brought up as if they were new. I mean, it's fine if you're going to rehash an old topic, since there are MANY old topics worth discussing over and over again, but it bothers me when people do this and treat it as if it was something new without giving credit to the original threads that existed." And, AGAIN, I say: "Chalk it up to ignorance." I'm pretty new at this site. I've only started like three posts, I believe. I have NO IDEA of the history of this site...past topics, etc. Why do I have three or so posts? Because I search the forum--usually--before I make a thread; seems many of my would-be topics have been made, so I abort them. BUT, if you're seeing redundant threads then I'd surmise the most recent poster didn't bother to do his/her research or simply did not care. What's more logical, the poster is lazy and/or stupid or that he/she is some kind of infiltrator? Our answers to that question probably differ. I would not assume that they're a shill. Ignoramuses and lazy people are much less rare than shills.

THEN you say this! "Basically, my opinion (uh oh, I have an opinion! better get the debunking engines ready." I found this really OFFENSIVE, not personally, but in respect to my humanity! We're the greatest species on the Earth for a reason, because of our minds. And yet you imply that debunking is somehow innately nefarious. It is not. Skeptics and debunkers should have a natural equilibrium with one another...this site would be stupid as hell if it had one without the other.

YOU SAY "This forum is called ATS - -Above Top Secret. Any and EVERY member has the right to believe whatever he or she wants to believe." Then how do YOU explain your apparent DISGUST of views that ridicule/oppose/debunk YOURS?

FINALLY YOU SAY (AND THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT): "So with that being said, it is my opinion that there are some members on ATS who are paid to influence public opinion."

If you ignore my entire post, please AT LEAST answer this. What do you mean by "public opinion?" You refer to "public opinion" a couple times, yet I cannot help but think that that term is a bit disingenuous, no? You DO mean ATS forum and/or conspiracy theory community opinion, correct?



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:02 AM
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[quote/]Lately, I have noticed that threads on ATS have been...different from what they used to be. Instead of seeing coherent conversations going on, I keep seeing people saying things that are completely irrelevant or just downright illogical. Now, I'm not saying that ATS isn't still "good"[quote/]

Fact of the matter is you are correct in my opinion..the moderators seem to squelch deflect and derail interjecting without cause hindering conversations.
Under the guise of civility and decorum..they wield too much control.
I personally don't need someone to remove a post because its all CAPS BFD
ABOVE TOP SECRET is LIKE a BLACK HOLE
It swallows all information and nothing of value gets out.
At least Steven Grier TRIED to get government to release some information.
Really what are we trying to do here? Forward an agenda of truth? are we politically active?
What can we actually hope to achieve by posting here? Above Top Secret?
not even close. I have come to the conclusion that this place is a VANITY board run for Skeptic OverLard and Dave Rabbit and their buddies.
The website has good features...FLAGS perfect..UP or Down based on content and peer review. SUPERMODERATORS...the bigger the Avatar the more IMPRESSIVE you are supposed to be? Give us a break..and stay out of the water until you see some one drowning.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:08 AM
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Absolutely there are paid shills here...mainly in the 911 threads...I bet we have put some of the "msm/government theory" spammers kids through college...but if you need proof of "paid shills" look no further than your tv news...be it local or national...they are all attempting to steer opinions...kudos to the discerning minds that think for themselves and see thru the bull biscuts served to the public daily on cnn fox abc/nbc/cbs ATS etc...but many still cannot believe our media would lie...



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:12 AM
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If I am not mistaken SonicInfinity's signature is a 3d holographic subliminal directing us all to eat more turkey!


God I wish I had a turkey sandwich about now! How about you?



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:23 AM
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Originally posted by Threadfall
I find your post to be myopic AND condescending, OP. You say, firstly that, "I keep seeing people saying things that are completely irrelevant or just downright illogical." So? People say irrelevant and illogical things ALL THE TIME, and in ALL FACETS OF LIFE. Are all these people shills? Some probably are. Most, however, are either being dumb or flippant, or gadflies (*chalk me up to being all those three at one point or another
)



First off, who uses words like "myopic" and "gadflies"? I hope you aren't trying to insult my intelligence. I can use big words too, you know.

Just because it happens "ALL THE TIME" doesn't mean we should just completely give up. We should always try to improve the quality of ATS, and if there are some blatantly stupid people (not ignorant, but stupid), then we shouldn't just let that go on like it's nothing.


Originally posted by Threadfall
THEN you say, "I also keep seeing many rehashes of old topics being brought up as if they were new. I mean, it's fine if you're going to rehash an old topic, since there are MANY old topics worth discussing over and over again, but it bothers me when people do this and treat it as if it was something new without giving credit to the original threads that existed." And, AGAIN, I say: "Chalk it up to ignorance." I'm pretty new at this site. I've only started like three posts, I believe. I have NO IDEA of the history of this site...past topics, etc. Why do I have three or so posts? Because I search the forum--usually--before I make a thread; seems many of my would-be topics have been made, so I abort them. BUT, if you're seeing redundant threads then I'd surmise the most recent poster didn't bother to do his/her research or simply did not care. What's more logical, the poster is lazy and/or stupid or that he/she is some kind of infiltrator? Our answers to that question probably differ. I would not assume that they're a shill. Ignoramuses and lazy people are much less rare than shills.


I've already clarified my position on this. If the person is ignorant and did not know of an old topic, they should be grateful when somebody brings up an old topic, since they would gain more information. Most of the time, though, I'm seeing these people either flame the person who posted the old topic or downright ignore the post altogether and continue their loop of discussion.


Originally posted by Threadfall
THEN you say this! "Basically, my opinion (uh oh, I have an opinion! better get the debunking engines ready." I found this really OFFENSIVE, not personally, but in respect to my humanity! We're the greatest species on the Earth for a reason, because of our minds. And yet you imply that debunking is somehow innately nefarious. It is not. Skeptics and debunkers should have a natural equilibrium with one another...this site would be stupid as hell if it had one without the other.



You found my letters on an internet forum really OFFENSIVE to your respect to humanity? My my, who knew typing letters on an Internet forum would be a federal offense.

Rarely do debunkers and skeptics have a natural equilibrium, since they are two different categories.


Originally posted by Threadfall
YOU SAY "This forum is called ATS - -Above Top Secret. Any and EVERY member has the right to believe whatever he or she wants to believe." Then how do YOU explain your apparent DISGUST of views that ridicule/oppose/debunk YOURS?



Please keep using capital letters to express your rage. It appeases me.

I never said I was "disgusted with views that ridicule/oppose/debunk my views", I said I was sick and tired of derailing.


Originally posted by Threadfall
FINALLY YOU SAY (AND THIS IS MOST IMPORTANT): "So with that being said, it is my opinion that there are some members on ATS who are paid to influence public opinion."

If you ignore my entire post, please AT LEAST answer this. What do you mean by "public opinion?" You refer to "public opinion" a couple times, yet I cannot help but think that that term is a bit disingenuous, no? You DO mean ATS forum and/or conspiracy theory community opinion, correct?



That is correct. What else would "public opinion" mean? It's the "opinion" of the "public". Don't think that doesn't mean the public can have varying opinions at the same time, though.

[edit on 5/6/2008 by SonicInfinity]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:28 AM
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There are most definitely government shills on here and I can name a bunch of them: [Mod Edit - Names removed] and many more. These agents cover the 9/11, Ancient Civ. and Military Projects forums.

Then the Secret Society forum is completely run by Masons! [Mod Edit - Names removed] and many more... the second you go in there to talk about secret societies, they tell you that you are wrong about everything that doesn't kiss Masonry's a$$. And they are there all day every day... last week I experimented to see, and it's true, they are online all day long just waiting to counter any anti-establishment view.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

In the Anonymous/Scientology thread I accused certain Anonymous members of being paid agents and low and behold, the moderator found that one of them was signing in under 3 screen names from the same IP agreeing with himself etc.

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

As I've been promoting my book The Atlantean Conspiracy on literally hundreds of message boards, I have run into many agents. They are mostly Masons, have Masonic symbols, numbers, quotes, ideas in their profiles and when you check their post history they troll the forums all day providing "rational skeptical" pro-establishment viewpoints for any and every subject.

I like how the guy disagreeing above me is called "Threadfall." Sounds like the name of someone who intentionally derails threads.


[edit on 6-5-2008 by freight tomsen]

Mod Edit. Citing of Names without absolute proof is an Ad-Hominem attack. We don't do that here. Courtesy is Mandatory

[edit on 6/0508/08 by neformore]

[edit on 6/0508/08 by neformore]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:32 AM
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Originally posted by SUNRAY06

Fact of the matter is you are correct in my opinion..the moderators seem to squelch deflect and derail interjecting without cause hindering conversations.
Under the guise of civility and decorum..they wield too much control.
I personally don't need someone to remove a post because its all CAPS BFD
ABOVE TOP SECRET is LIKE a BLACK HOLE
It swallows all information and nothing of value gets out.



Actually, I understand the "ALL CAPS" thing. It can be rather annoying sometimes.

Speaking of black holes...





Originally posted by SUNRAY06

At least Steven Grier TRIED to get government to release some information.
Really what are we trying to do here? Forward an agenda of truth? are we politically active?
What can we actually hope to achieve by posting here? Above Top Secret?
not even close. I have come to the conclusion that this place is a VANITY board run for Skeptic OverLard and Dave Rabbit and their buddies.
The website has good features...FLAGS perfect..UP or Down based on content and peer review. SUPERMODERATORS...the bigger the Avatar the more IMPRESSIVE you are supposed to be? Give us a break..and stay out of the water until you see some one drowning.


Actually, there is no "anti-flag" or "anti-star" system, which has been a complaint of mine for some time. I think the reasoning they used is "people will flood it with negative votes", but doesn't the same stay true for "fans" of "popular users" who flood it with positive votes? If you had one topic posted by a new user and another posted by a moderator, which one do you think it going to get more stars, flags, and posts? Usually it's not a problem since the popular users mainly post really good material, but I have been irked time and again when I see something that has either been rehashed or isn't too cohesive and gets stars and flags like candy.

reply to post by skinnyblaze
 


True, but most of the people on the news are puppets following orders in fear of losing their jobs, so although they are to blame, their masters are to blame more.

reply to post by Cyberbian
 


Actually, my signature is a type of Binary, as is my avatar.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:36 AM
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I think it's also quite clear to those who have been paying attention long enough that the "September Clues" Hologram theory/No Planers were the government disinfo line/agents. Nowadays you hear almost nothing about September Clues or the Hologram theory because it is so clearly bogus government propaganda designed to make conspiracy theorists look ridiculous.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:38 AM
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I can say without a doubt in my mind that there is a government official monitoring this site. They must do it in order to protect their own behinds. Either that or they hire a disinformation official who can debunk what they can. There are over 100,000 viewers/posters on ATS...do you really think the government is just going to let everyone speak their minds?

Come on!



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 01:42 AM
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Originally posted by freight tomsen
There are most definitely government shills on here and I can name a bunch of them: *SNIP* names removed* and many more. These agents cover the 9/11, Ancient Civ. and Military Projects forums.



I have not heard of any of these people, but I may look into these users. Accusing them of being "government shills" without any proof is blind, though. Do you have any solid proof other than their posts? If you have information about them that goes beyond ATS posts, do tell.


Originally posted by freight tomsen
Then the Secret Society forum is completely run by Masons! *SNIP* names removed* and many more... the second you go in there to talk about secret societies, they tell you that you are wrong about everything that doesn't kiss Masonry's a$$. And they are there all day every day... last week I experimented to see, and it's true, they are online all day long just waiting to counter any anti-establishment view.



I really don't know WHAT to think of the Mason forum anymore. When I first came here, there were some really good discussions and all that, but in the past couple of months, those users seem to be popping up in all the threads and defending masonry. If they are being paid, we'll never know, that's for sure. It's hard not to get a headache, though, whenever I hear them say masonry is "good" because people like George Washington, etc., were in it. Masonry is an ideal, not a person. You can still believe in a bad ideal and be a good person in the long run, and vice versa. Anybody who says the ideal of Masonry is "good" after knowing and researching the subject for years and years has either been researching the wrong stuff or has some sort of agenda.


Originally posted by freight tomsen
In the Anonymous/Scientology thread I accused certain Anonymous members of being paid agents and low and behold, the moderator found that one of them was signing in under 3 screen names from the same IP agreeing with himself etc.



Actually, I'm unsure if that is being a "paid agent" or not. The Disorganization of Anonymous likes to do thing "for the lulz". Making multiple accounts and responding to themselves is not out of the question considering they always do it with the guise of anonymity on their board.


Originally posted by freight tomsen
As I've been promoting my book The Atlantean Conspiracy on literally hundreds of message boards, I have run into many agents. They are mostly Masons, have Masonic symbols, numbers, quotes, ideas in their profiles and when you check their post history they troll the forums all day providing "rational skeptical" pro-establishment viewpoints for any and every subject.



Yeah, that is hardly surprising.

I like how the guy disagreeing above me is called "Threadfall." Sounds like the name of someone who intentionally derails threads.




Try not to base your opinion on people because of their username, unless they're called something like "xXxXxGOKU9000xXxXx".


Originally posted by freight tomsen
I think it's also quite clear to those who have been paying attention long enough that the "September Clues" Hologram theory/No Planers were the government disinfo line/agents. Nowadays you hear almost nothing about September Clues or the Hologram theory because it is so clearly bogus government propaganda designed to make conspiracy theorists look ridiculous.



We'll never know the truth until the truth is in the clear 100%.

reply to post by Equinox99
 


The can monitor us all, but they can't hire enough people to watch every single one of us 24/7. I'm sure some information escapes through the cracks every now-and-then.

Okay, I'm going to bed now. I'll respond to stuff tomorrow when I get home.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by SonicInfinity
 


In short - I have no doubt that people are paid to "sculpture" public opinion on the internet.

The Pentagon actively employs a propaganda unit to deflect criticism and put forward their version of "the truth".

Pentagon Expands Propaganda War

US 'Admits' Iraw Propaganda Drive

Pentagon boosts "Media War" Unit

I'm sure that all the major players on the world stage employ such things.

Now whether such departments/individuals are present on ATS is a matter of speculation. Its possible BUT - and this is the kicker - its highly unlikely that it could ever be proved.

"Lackeys"/"Shills"/"Disinfo Agents" etc have always existed in every kind of media. The best way to counter such things is with knowledge, education and patient explanation. If you rise to the bait and lose your temper, you lose the argument - simple as that.

Language and information is an art form. Some people barely put spots on a canvas and some are Leonardo DaVinci. Always check multiple sources for information and apply a healthy dose of skepticism to everything you read on the 'net.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 02:26 AM
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Public debates is a yes or no game, the main problem is that people is not willing to admit mistakes or change a certain standpoint because that means accepting defeat, failure for many. "Failure" is becoming in our societies more a sin than a respected and appreciated way of keep on learning from each other. It seems like winning at all costs no matter how long you drag on a non sensible argument, standpoint, is more appreciated than simply nod "Yes, hey you are right, maybe I should have looked at that issue from that angle too."

What I noticed is that during a fierce non-ending debate, if you calmly send a respectful U2U (PM in other forums) to the other party, then very often (unfortunately not always) you will receive a "normal response". This does not mean that the two of us need to agree on the certain points, but out of public sights, it seems like we can drop our "poker face" and show a "normal friendly face" and hold a normal conversation sharing different opinions.

Well, for the rest I refer you looking at my avatar and the first line of my signature.....

[edit on 6/5/08 by IchiNiSan]



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