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ET-Channelers: Con Artists vs. Genuine Messengers

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posted on May, 9 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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A real channel allows the entity to be channeled to step in an take control of the host body. All the reflections and such should be different if it is real. When the channelling is done the host will take back control and is always tired from the ordeal and usually has not clue as to what was said by the entity. They are also usually very hungry as a lot of energy was used in the process.

Anything or the the above is not channelling, but is other forms of communication. To channel you must give a lot of trust to the other entity and it usually is set up by arrangement, it just does not happen all of a sudden, cause that would be a violation of free will.

Some who claim to channel are actually doing telepathic communication and just repeating what is being told to them as they go along repeating the message.

Of course there are those out for nothing but ego and making money. There are those that try to give out the information for free, but society is just not set up for it and so something has to be charged otherwise.

But without seeing the channel in action you can not tell if what is being shared is fully real and so it is buyer beware. I have even known channels who once were the real deal and no longer can make the connection and so as to keep it up they fake it.

So it is either for you or it is not. Is it real, it can be and then again it can be totally fake. Common sense can weigh in on what is real or not.




posted on May, 9 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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reply to post by Jonar
 


I am not sure if i agree with you saying, that is the only form of channeling.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by Skyfloating
 


Do parents charge for counseling their children? The problem comes from the price tag itself. What entity would ask that we deplete our bank accounts to find the truth? If someone wants to spend money trying to find some solace for their life that is their business.. but really whos solace is it? The reciever or the one selling it?

If someone takes on the respnsability of bringing truth or enlightemment into the life of someone else they should be brave enough to do it out of love and consider not the size of their own bank account.


I have some observations and questions about this whole quote here.

First of all, counseling your own children is part of being a parent, and if the parent is not equiped to handle some of the counseling, they hire an outside counselor if needed, and yes, they pay for it. Do people who have a degree in say, family counseling not have a right to collect a fee for their services? They should do it for free?

I guess I don't get your analogy here.

If a person is a gifted channeler decides to do this for a living, how are they supposed to live? Are they supposed to buy groceries, pay rent, and utilities out of thin air?

Are they supposed to work a day job to support themselves and then spend all of their free time channeling for people for free?

I don't get your logic? How do you suppose they go about supplying this free service while eeking out a living?

Maybe channelers need to be regulated to where they can only charge a set limit for their services. But what would you consider a fair fee for say a half hour? $10, $25 or?

Nobody has to go to a channeler, nobody is forced to. I don't see how people who are willing to pay for a service are receiving a tainted message. People can only sell something that another person is willing to buy.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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Hi Drakir,

Sorry for the delay in my response. It's been a busy day.


Originally posted by Drakiir
Yeah, I still need some tune ups in that department as I feel most things as apposed to seeing them.

Like they say there is a messenger behind every message and they come in the colours of white or sky blue.

I have seen other colors sometimes but know to avoid them and 'repel' them away. Fortunately Im starting to get better at seeing more sky blue and sometimes white. I see the message but I don't always see the messenger so thats what I need to tune into

Knowing the energy color of the messenger(s) is very telling, as it indicates if it is from a spiritual source.


Originally posted by Drakiir
And as we know colors aren't just colors, they have some sort of entity behind them and I think spiritual wise, the color represents the intension of the spirit. Colors are also responsible for inducing emotion, fear, and happiness so this is a major part in color spiritual discernment also.

Quite so.


Originally posted by Drakiir
I recall once where Oprah was discussing seeing orbs around her when she turned her head sometimes and the interviewee was describing the different types and meanings. I think she saw mostly violet which is also a 'friendly' colour.

On a deeper and more important level, the violet orbs represented Group Entities of upper echelon angels i.e., discarnate communities that reside on the fifth plane in the traditional and well-known seven plane paradigm.


Originally posted by Drakiir
I will have to see if there is something on Youtube about it, so I will take a look and see what I can find.

I'd be interested to see what you find.


Originally posted by Drakiir
Thanks for the advice as always

You are most welcome.



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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Hi Witness2008,


Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by Skyfloating
 

Do parents charge for counseling their children? The problem comes from the price tag itself. What entity would ask that we deplete our bank accounts to find the truth? If someone wants to spend money trying to find some solace for their life that is their business.. but really who's solace is it? The receiver or the one selling it?

If someone takes on the responsibility of bringing truth or enlightenment into the life of someone else they should be brave enough to do it out of love and consider not the size of their own bank account.

You've got a point there.


It all evens out though and I will tell you how:

Those who charge for their services spiritually progress much slower or not at all next to those who selflessly help others without charging them


That's the cosmic counterbalance.


[edit on 9-5-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on May, 9 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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Originally posted by Jonar
A real channel allows the entity to be channeled to step in an take control of the host body. All the reflections and such should be different if it is real. When the channelling is done the host will take back control and is always tired from the ordeal and usually has not clue as to what was said by the entity. They are also usually very hungry as a lot of energy was used in the process.

I have to agree with Darcon.

What you describe is referred to as full-trance channeling. That is only one form of doing it. There are other forms, like automatic writing for example.

Also, just because Spirit temporarily takes over a body does not ensure that the information is accurate


Over the years I've been to a number of full-trance channelers and none of them have been as accurate as what I have received directly through my own mystical connection to discarnate Saints.

It is not the mode of channeling that is important but the SOURCE.


Originally posted by Jonar
Anything or the the above is not channelling, but is other forms of communication.

All forms of telepathic communication are a variation of channeling.

Channeling = telepathy with one or more discarnates.

Telepathy is the universal language of Spirit.


Originally posted by Jonar
To channel you must give a lot of trust to the other entity and it usually is set up by arrangement, it just does not happen all of a sudden, cause that would be a violation of free will.

To an extent, yes, that is true, depending on the form of channeling one pursues. Obviously a certain degree of trust is needed for automatic writing and even more so for full-trance channeling as opposed to the less intrusive variations of telepathic communication.



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 12:36 AM
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I would agree not all claims of channeling ET's are genuine, but I also think there are many who are being very genuine when they say they are communicating, when in fact they aren't. I don't think you can define them into seperate groups of frauds vs genuine, and they would also have a variety of motives, personal or otherwise.

There's also the possibility that they could very well be communicating with an entitiy and the entity may pose as an alien, or still be an alien and not be telling the truth. It comes down to questioning more than just the channeller; the message or how convincing the process seemed.



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 01:10 AM
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Skyfloater

I have just finished reading this book, Secrets in the Fields by Freddy Silva. The reason I feel that it is relevant, is that it does have one chapter with some channelled information from those beings claiming to be the creators of the genuine crop circles.

This channelled information would be extremely difficult for a hoxer to hoax, due to much of the esoteric information contained.

Also, the book is really good at explaining why symbols are being used to communicate rather than language. Yeah, these intelligences could have sent prose, but there are reasons for communicating in symbols, as they have chosen.

This is a very different type of non-terrestrial message than many of these channellers. I really can recommend this book - it's excellent.



[edit on 10-5-2008 by yogifootballer]



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating
reply to post by Witness2008
 


You´ve kept saying on various threads that those who work in the spiritual field shouldnt be getting any money for their work. I disagree with that strongly.

Because it implies that this work is of no value compared to other things we spend it for.
[]
When I pay money for something I want to give my money to someone who is making a positive difference.


Agreed.

Add: I want to get "my money" from someone who is making a positive difference.

I feel there are way to use the spiritual field in very concrete ways; and get paid for it; business consulting for example.

The products I sell are always very "organic" / "kosher" / "natural" and I can explain why and how to my customers... I can explain the "spirit" of my solution vs the "spirit" of the competitors solution. That transcends many fields... do you sell glass jars or plastic bottles? Copper plumbing or PVC? Hardwood or plywood? Waste vegetable oil or petro?

It is in these simple decisions that the "WWJD?" form of channelling becomes easy to see.

the question is who do you want to channel and why... which vibration of thought do you strive for and how long can you hold that vibrational energy; how fine a sizzle can you hum? How beautiful a smile can you hold? How much love can you radiate? Who ARE YOU, who were you, who do you seek to become? There is a time for peace; a time for war. Can you channel the warrior, can you channel the pacifist?

aaaum... . . .

that which I AM...

knee deep in the wheat grass,

Sri Oracle


[edit on 10-5-2008 by Sri Oracle]



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 12:50 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Those who charge for their services spiritually progress much slower or not at all next to those who selflessly help others without charging them


That's the cosmic counterbalance.




I disagree.

The middle path lies between the extremes of hedonism and asceticism.

It is my belief that he who charges the most fair price; makes the most mutually beneficial exchange, for his services will progress the fastest.

Keep contracts in good faith;
have hope for future exchange,
and be charitable to those you serve and those in need.

That goes for carpentry or spiritual counselling.

Charging does not have to be about cash... I charge ATS a fee every month... I read their content. If I do not have access to my world news through ATS... then I will stop writing for the board. Because ATS provides me with with a valuable service I am able to continue providing my writing skills "pro bono" The mutually beneficial relationship allows room for both the growth of my writing "career" and the growth of the ATS knowledge base.


Sri Oracle



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard

Those who charge for their services spiritually progress much slower or not at all next to those who selflessly help others without charging them


That's the cosmic counterbalance.


Originally posted by Sri Oracle
I disagree.

Feel free to disagree all you like.

We are here to express ourselves.


Originally posted by Sri Oracle
The middle path lies between the extremes of hedonism and asceticism.

You are using the wrong terms here.

A better way of putting it is materialism versus selflessness.

Selflessness is what makes the soul spiritually progress, not materialistic, selfish, thinking.

We all have to make a living. But making a living and simply being fair in our dealings with others - while occasionally being charitable - will not enable us to truly spiritually progress. At best, it will place us with all the other basically spiritual angels in a City of Light on the fourth plane in The Light after death.

No, we have to do more than that to evolve beyond the only basically spiritual angels in the Mid Realms, and at the very least become stable Saints in the sixth or preferably the seventh plane in The Light. Where greater emotional and spiritual fulfillment is to be found than with the angels and common spirits (subangels) below.


Originally posted by Sri Oracle
It is my belief that he who charges the most fair price; makes the most mutually beneficial exchange, for his services will progress the fastest.

You need to expand your belief system by researching the conclusions found from near death experiences. The infinite and nonliving Light on the Other Side is not only indifferent to persons, groups, and religions, but also to making money or a "middle road."

Not one near death experience I have ever come across ever mentioned anything about a "middle road" of making money that will help one spiritually evolve.


Hey, if it were all that easy, then all of us would be highly evolved and we would all (at least) be able to ascend in vibration to the seventh plane after we leave the flesh.


And all the millionaires out there who lived very comfortably and who occasionally gave some money away to charity, would now all be Saints.


Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look upon it, that is simply not the case.


Originally posted by Sri Oracle
Keep contracts in good faith;
have hope for future exchange,
and be charitable to those you serve and those in need.

Treating others fairly is what prevents negative karma. Helping others is what creates good karma. Good karma leads to spiritual growth.

What you are espousing is the BASIC path of spirituality, not an ADVANCED path of spiritual discipline toward Sainthood and beyond - God Realization.

Spiritual growth consists of SELFLESSNESS, not a "middle path" of making money.

Make money to live.

But be SELFLESS in order to spiritually progress.


For you Bible lovers out there, we have a passage which addresses this very point:


“No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.” —Matthew 6:24
Source

Translation: One cannot seek to make money and also spiritually progress. You must place God (spiritual growth) over material concerns. It doesn't mean starving ourselves but it does mean that one has to live a selfless, disciplined, moral existence in order to significantly evolve.

But by all means, believe whatever you wish.

As it will all become crystal clear in The Light after death.


[edit on 10-5-2008 by Paul_Richard]



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 09:28 PM
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There is one case of a woman who claimed to have contact with aliens...it was extremely interesting. There was a chapter dedicated to her in the Betty and Barney Hill book, Captured. I can't remember all of the details, but it was fascinating. I'm on a quick break from work, otherwise I would look it up. The Air Force was involved with her, trying to make contact.

Does anyone remember her case??? Or more information??



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by Sri Oracle
The middle path lies between the extremes of hedonism and asceticism.



Originally posted by Paul_Richard
You are using the wrong terms here.

A better way of putting it is materialism versus selflessness.

Selflessness is what makes the soul spiritually progress, not materialistic, selfish, thinking.

Spiritual growth consists of SELFLESSNESS, not a "middle path" of making money.


I used those terms with reason. Hedonism is self love at the sacrifice of the tribe. Asceticism is self deprivation; a sacrifice made for the tribe.

Selflessness; or asceticism alone does not seem to be the higher path as one cannot act selflessly without hedonistically sipping water from time to time.

The middle path I elude to is not one of amassing wealth; but one of sustaining and growing the bodily "temple" for the purpose of "feeding the people".

Majjhimā Paṭipadā


Sri Oracle



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 08:10 AM
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Originally posted by Jonar
A real channel allows the entity to be channeled to step in an take control of the host body. All the reflections and such should be different if it is real. When the channelling is done the host will take back control and is always tired from the ordeal and usually has not clue as to what was said by the entity. They are also usually very hungry as a lot of energy was used in the process.


Those are noticeable traits of authentic higher-entity-channellers. Thanks for mentioning.



[edit on 11-5-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 08:43 AM
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reply to post by Sri Oracle
 

Amassing wealth to feed some people is not enough to grow into Sainthood and beyond


More selflessness and overall spiritual discipline than that is required.


If not, then the millionaires who lived very comfortably and who gave money to charities would all now be discarnate Saints, as stated previously.


Follow a path of basic spirituality and you wind up on a basically spiritual plane in The Light - typically the fourth - after death.

I guess it all depends on what you want.




posted on May, 11 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by Paul_Richard
Amassing wealth to feed some people is not enough to grow into Sainthood and beyond


You are twisting my words a bit and losing their meaning. I do not recommend amassing wealth for spiritual fulfilment. I recommend sustaining and growing one's individual bodily temple as a equal in priority to helping others selflessly.

When the airplane de-pressurizes, one should take the oxygen mask; and then consider those who have been unable to do so themselves. One must have faith in the ability of others to fend. When they are distressed it will become apparent to the man on stable ground, and that is the time for selflessness; charity. In times of chaos tend first to the lesser vehicle; then in times of stability, to the greater.

It seems to me the path you prescribe is indicative of an over-active heart chakra. I recognize it because I have the same affliction. My wife often tells me it is her job to make sure I don't get walked over because of my generosity. From the higher minded perspective, from time to time, one neglects the fact that there are still those who will take from your energy to serve retrograde selfish ends. Acting selflessly with these "demons" without due clarity can lead to an unease of mind; sin; the wrong path; regret.

Allow me to open my "real" world to you for a moment. I have platinum credit. I live in and renovate condemned buildings in "rough neighbourhoods". I have people begging at my door at least once weekly. Most on my block and in the 9 block area are "pay check to pay check" or "welfare". Many that walk the streets are homeless, alcoholics, or drug addicted. I stand out financially. Each month $6000 passes through my check book... I pay mortgages, insurance policies, and minimum payments on $80k of unsecured debt. Next month I could act entirely "selflessly"... I could spend my $6000 buying groceries for everyone on my block including the whole low income apartment complex instead of floating visa and loyds of london. But then I would lose my good credit. I would lose my ability to occasionally plant fruit trees at local churches. I would lose my ability to hand out food to those who look into my eyes in need. I would lose my ownership of the land from which I grow food, restore historic structures, and house a family.

There must be balance. I believe submitting to the will of God does imply a paradoxical equality between selflessness and "love thyself"

When we seek Heaven the earth naturally yields to our dominion; we should not be ashamed of this.



In the concept of the abundant life is to be found the radioactive principloe of the exanding God consciousness into which any man may drink without depriving his brother of one iota of his inheritance.


-Elizabeth Claire Prophet

...to he who has much, more will come...

I find that amassing physical personal wealth can be a spiritual and tantric process if it is done in "service". One of my current planned "tantric" expenditures is a $1500 purchase of fruit trees. When purchased one at a time they are $25 or more each. When purchased in bulk they are under $10 each. For the past few years, along side individual tree purchases, and paying the long list of other bills; on time, I have been slowly growing my ability to absorb a $1500 fruit tree purchase for the benefit of "man" without harming myself financially. Amassing wealth in this manner is a guiltless and very positive experience. A far more spiritual experience than giving away $0.65 to each alcoholic that tries to bum some cash as he passes my downtown home, on the way to the corner store, for another beer.... just writing that inspires me to put cash in a "fruit tree" jar, from here forward, every time someone I don't know comes looking for cash at my doorstep. I'll let them tell me how much to add.

Again, when we seek Heaven the earth naturally yields to our dominion.

At your service, in abundance, I am,

Sri Oracle

ps. As a life goal, I have my sights on cashing in my worldly possessions for 640 acres (one square mile) of desert land. With the approval of the stars, It will glow green during the next generation.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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Originally posted by Sri Oracle

It seems to me the path you prescribe is indicative of an over-active heart chakra. I recognize it because I have the same affliction.



Fantastic overall post in my opinion.

I liked this part the best because I do think Paul_Richard places too much emphasis on the heart chakra at the expense of all the other chakras...and not only him, but many other people in the field.

Not that there´s anything wrong with that Paul...



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 11:57 AM
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I notice, reptiles are not verbal at all, but they are in tuned to their environment somehow. Maybe this is why Eve's breeding with a serpent (Enki) produced non-verbal abilities in reptilian-hybrid humans later on.

When I started training with a tone generator so I could hear lower tones is when I began to hear "traffic." According to David Wilcock, the higher the frequency that is vibrating the denser and heavier the object is that vibrates.

video.google.com...

so people who talk about "tuning to a higher vibration" are really full of prunes because they're not hearing the more fundamental and lower tonal emanations coming from less dense spirit-persons at all. And maybe they don't realize it.

Sorry about the wrong link. I corrected it.




Originally posted by Skyfloating

In any case, it can be good to get away from the black-white thinking of "Channelling - Truth or Hoax?" and recognize that the truth may lie somewhere in the middle.

Looking forward to what I learn from others who have read and experienced channelers and contactees.



[edit on 11-5-2008 by sarcastic]

[edit on 11-5-2008 by sarcastic]



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 04:24 AM
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reply to post by sarcastic
 


When people refer to sound-frequency this is a bit different than when new-agers refer to "vibration frequency". They use the vibration-idea as a metaphor/analogy to describe spiritual states from light/subtle to dense/heavy.

Example:

Steam, Water, Ice - are the same thing in different "densities"

Spirit, Thought, Matter - are the same thing in different "densities"



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 04:25 AM
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Originally posted by darcon
reply to post by Jonar
 


I am not sure if i agree with you saying, that is the only form of channeling.


True its not the only way. But its a very intense and higher-dimensional way.



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