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ET-Channelers: Con Artists vs. Genuine Messengers

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posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:17 AM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
There are a few people here at ATS that I believe to be contactees, two in the more recent threads..but very little discussion happens because they are so busy trying to defend the legitamacy of the message. I suppose the message is only important if it has a dollar sign attached. Have you asked any questions in you last few posts? Any possible answers would be free.


I have no doubt that a bunch of this can be had for free. I just dont like demonizing people who actually make a profession out of their dream.




posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by Enthralled Fan

I don't consider anything I have read on this site proof of aliens, angels, demons, or God, really for that matter.




A poster before said its a personal experience. Maybe he´s right.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I personally have not demonized those that make a living from their messages, my concern is that those that do not charge are shut out because they have not published books and DVD's. In the few months that I have been sorting out what I am learning and bucking with up with all that I need to be respnsable with the message I continually run across those that charge money and hi-jack my experiences for their monetary gain.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:31 AM
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Originally posted by Witness2008
I personally have not demonized those that make a living from their messages, my concern is that those that do not charge are shut out because they have not published books and DVD's. In the few months that I have been sorting out what I am learning and bucking with up with all that I need to be respnsable with the message I continually run across those that charge money and hi-jack my experiences for their monetary gain.



Well...con-artists, right? There´s a LOT of them out there, agreed. Hence this thread.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:46 AM
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Great post Skyfloating.

I think this ties in with a thread i started pertaining to the parallels of Alien Abduction Experiences with religion and spiritual belief. Alot of research i have read states that we see society incorporating what science and technology tells us is possible or probable. We then see these new possibilities( i.e. the possible existence of alien life) being incorporated into current religious or spiritual practices, beliefs or experiences. And we can see it is no different with mediums and psychics, who update the source of their contact/clairvoyance to what science says is probable. Here is the thread if you have the time.....www.abovetopsecret.com...


Aliens have begun to fill the role previously reserved for supernatural beings. Experiences once explained by benevolent or malevolent spirits, then later through angels and devils, now have good and bad aliens as possible explanations.

instruct1.cit.cornell.edu...&French.pdf

We can apply this to psychics and clairvoyants. Why is it that only after our knowledge(through science and technology) tells us that alien life many exist do we now see contact(via this medium). It is very interesting that we can observe this emergence within the context of the ever growing influence of what science and technology tells us is possible.
Are the psychics just trying to keep up and be relevant to keep the bucks rolling in.
Great post. S&F.




[edit on 5-5-2008 by atlasastro]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:52 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

A poster before said its a personal experience. Maybe he´s right.


Yes. I think this quote pretty much nails it on the head. Notice I said anything I have read on this site?

I guess it would have to be because my own experiences have been very unique and unlike anything else I have read here. They are what brought me to this site.

It might very well be that channelers are passing along legitimate information, but not being privy to their own experiences, who knows for sure?



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:13 AM
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I can't believe this is the second time I'm moaning about a thread I started on the same subject as this one. Mine got virtually no responses!


Getting sick of eating these sour grapes...

Anyway, I've voiced my opinion here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

but, if it's ok by you, Skyfloating, this might be is the place to reiterate my view.

Delving into a subject that stirs intense emotion and creates, in some believers, unswerving loyalty is a dangerous thing, especially when personal knowledge of the subject is deliberately limited. So, is it wise, or even correct, for me to question the subject matter in the title of this post, considering that I have openly declared my “ignorance”? That would depend on why I am doing it.

Without a complete understanding of its ethos, can I legitimately criticise this emerging belief system simply because its adherents continue to ply us with page after page of unfounded, unverifiable data, that, or the inter-linked stories that abound on the web that seemingly support a self-replicating mythology, or even the vociferous and constant defence of this “religion” by its acolytes? Most would say no, and rightly so, because to successfully evaluate any religiously orientated meme, in theory one has to appreciate its inner message to fashion a valid judgment. Even if the subject is uncomfortable, or clashes with personal beliefs, an understanding is necessary.

But what if the “word” this Space Brotherhood professes, for want of a better title, is simply a rehash of older, far more ingrained teachings brought up to date, having been polished and reshaped for a spiritually barren and dispossessed modern world? And if that original message, in all its many, contradictory forms, continues to divide us on a global scale, what hope a new version that is even more extreme in its provenance?

This is my problem with all channelled “entities”, and their associated organisations.

If we entertain for the briefest moment that there is even the smallest grain of truth behind all the tales of Lightworkers/Lightwarriors/Ashtar Command etc., then I am truly terrified. To me, these attempts at proclaiming message of intergalactic love and peace fall so far short of success that they may as well not have bothered. And the reason behind this is that they certainly do not seem to have originated from beings that have attained higher levels of consciousness.

On reading websites that promote these communications, and I’ve read many, all I hear is the calculated rhetoric of control together with blatant attempts at counteracting and distracting from their lack of content by using a continuing theme that runs through virtually all of these channelled commandments; distrust. Deny the negative nay-sayers, ignore criticism, listen to the words from above.
Only we can save you.
Only our message is right.
Any other is from the dark side, from the ones who would enslave.
Odd, isn’t it, that this form of communication in itself is a manner of enslavement. It’s projected, verbal OCD. Ignore it, and something awful will befall you. Time and again, these “messages” from various Light-Beings simply convey the continuing need for obedience, or suffer the consequences. “Trust in us,” they say, “and we shall come to save you.”
Grand prophecies come and go with absolutely no sign of fulfilment, yet there is no backlash, just devoted fawning over the resulting limp excuses of miraculously changed time-lines and the true power of faith in those who have the biggest star-ships.

What clashes nauseatingly with this parade of hollow assurances is the underlying topic of the spreading of love. This is cynicism in the extreme, as in itself this pursuit is a fundamental objective of all humans, though not always undertaken for the right reasons. At the behest of remote, space-faring gods it just smacks of desperation, repetition and unoriginality. This is where the channelled messages fall down, because I believe they come not from superior, alien intellects, but from domineering human ones.

Even the most ignorant amongst us can concede, no matter how reluctantly, that simple respect and support for our fellow beings is paramount for our survival. Love already exists in abundance on this planet, even if it is sometimes misdirected. Often we misspell it as greed. But what we forget is that love can be seen in every humanitarian action, and there are billions happening every day, in every rebellious soul that stands up against tyranny, even if they are alone, in every thought and action of every normal, decent human being, irrelevant of their creed or skin colour.

We are built to love. So why and teach us something that we already know?

What should we be hearing for this sceptic, and many others, to take notice? That is not for me to say, as to do so would be crossing a line. But to narrow it down, I will say that I need to hear a message that transcends the normality of existence. Words are powerful things. Considering these Space Brothers are supposedly advanced in ways that we would consider approaching the divine, their grasp of the spoken word is sorely lacking. This cannot be ignored.
Why can they not proclaim something that appeals to all intellects, something that crosses the confused boundaries of language and differing faiths to draw us together as a single, cohesive species; a spoken rosetta stone? Why? Because everything we read from them is a result of the educational system the respective channellers went through. If you ain’t smart, you don’t write smart. Creative and prolific they may be, but innovative they ain’t. And it shows.

Now, I await the expected backlash from the faithful. I questioned at the beginning of this post if I have the right to express my difficulty with this subject, even though I haven’t bothered to delve any deeper than just below the surface of their credo. There is a reason why I can answer that in the affirmative:

There is nothing else to see and this is why I question.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:16 AM
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Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Witness2008
If someone claims to channel then charge money for the message I would have to pass on that.


If you wanna dedicate yourself to disclosure or some metaphysical path sincerely and full-time you need to be able to survive for goodness sake. Whats all this bitching about people asking a few cents?


You can dedicate yourself to some metaphysical path and still have a fulltime job (I do) but don't expect you'll have much of a social life or a career. Either go out and have a drink, watch that movie with friends or stay at home studying and meditating.

Maybe I'm setting my standards high but if I were to listen to someone's message I would do so expecting I get to become better/happier. So that person better be succesful in worldly issues as well as beyond this world. Meaning he or she would support him/herself financially by having a mundane job in society.

It has to do with someone depending on income from for example channelings versus someone who doesn't have to tell a message in order to be able to live. It isn't that money is dirty or the services are not worth the money; actual information that is verifyable would be priceless. In my own case, if I were to somehow make money from my spiritual insights I would have a worry in the back of my mind nagging at me to come up with something or else I can't pay for my house or food. Sometimes I get a lot of information to deal with in a short time but other times nothing really happens for weeks. I would consider that an obstacle while having a steady income from a job doesn't interfer with my peace of mind.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by Dragonfly79]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Beamish
 


Sorry I missed your thread on this subject. It is a good one. I agree with so much of what you say. I tire of raking through all the new age crap and in my opinion about 90% of it is just that. Why do we need anyone to teach us how to be a part of this world exercising compassion and common sense?

There are contactees in this world that for some reason are chosen to be awakened more fully to our condition, but these are people that still held to what we are all born with..empathy, and it is personal and a responsability that is not taken lightly by those that I know of. There is certainly never any monetary thought given to any new found understanding only a change in how we treat one another and the effort that is put forth into helping others shake the programming.

I reach people in grocery lines, bus stops, while driving...a message of friendship, kindness and hope...does not cost me anything nor the person you warm with your attention.

I find much of what channelers have to say as just another hook to draw in loyal monetary support.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:50 AM
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reply to post by atlasastro
 


So do you think its only them updating their message to adapt to modern times (contactees were very different in the 50s) or them having access to more as the planets "frequency increases"?



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by Enthralled Fan

Yes. I think this quote pretty much nails it on the head. Notice I said anything I have read on this site?

I guess it would have to be because my own experiences have been very unique and unlike anything else I have read here. They are what brought me to this site.

It might very well be that channelers are passing along legitimate information, but not being privy to their own experiences, who knows for sure?


Im with you on that. Ive had my share of personal ET-experiences but none of them resemble the literature or what is said about them on this site.

I came here to find out more about my experiences and got stuck in a quagmire quicksand of arguing and defending



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Beamish
Getting sick of eating these sour grapes...


Sorry about that. I guess threads on the deep stuff are not that popular.




This is my problem with all channelled “entities”, and their associated organisations.


Well yeah. Yes to all you said. But you dont mind me checking into it as well, do you?

I havent found the purely nuts-and-bolts-based purely material approach to UFOlogy to deliver all the answers.



If we entertain for the briefest moment that there is even the smallest grain of truth behind all the tales of Lightworkers/Lightwarriors/Ashtar Command etc., then I am truly terrified. To me, these attempts at proclaiming message of intergalactic love and peace fall so far short of success that they may as well not have bothered. And the reason behind this is that they certainly do not seem to have originated from beings that have attained higher levels of consciousness.


Thats why I declare stuff like "ashtar command" as a scam. But I mustnt throw the baby out with the bathwater as Ive derived huge benefits from other metaphysical/new-age paths.

In fact, any area of life has its junk and its jewels.



Only we can save you.
Only our message is right.
Any other is from the dark side, from the ones who would enslave.


Those are giveaways of cults.




Now, I await the expected backlash from the faithful.


I have found it helpful not to become cynical or distrustful now matter how much crap/hoax/scam is dumped on us.

Even if 99% is a lie, its quite the impossibility to see everything as a lie.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 12:07 PM
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Originally posted by Dragonfly79
If you wanna dedicate yourself to disclosure or some metaphysical path sincerely and full-time you need to be able to survive for goodness sake. Whats all this bitching about people asking a few cents?


You can dedicate yourself to some metaphysical path and still have a fulltime job (I do) but don't expect you'll have much of a social life or a career. Either go out and have a drink, watch that movie with friends or stay at home studying and meditating.

Maybe I'm setting my standards high but if I were to listen to someone's message I would do so expecting I get to become better/happier. So that person better be succesful in worldly issues as well as beyond this world. Meaning he or she would support him/herself financially by having a mundane job in society.

Not unless you´re a believer in making your passion to your profession rather than finding a job as dictated by the world.



It has to do with someone depending on income from for example channelings versus someone who doesn't have to tell a message in order to be able to live. It isn't that money is dirty or the services are not worth the money; actual information that is verifyable would be priceless. In my own case, if I were to somehow make money from my spiritual insights I would have a worry in the back of my mind nagging at me to come up with something or else I can't pay for my house or food. Sometimes I get a lot of information to deal with in a short time but other times nothing really happens for weeks. I would consider that an obstacle while having a steady income from a job doesn't interfer with my peace of mind.



The idea of not having to do it for a living and therefore being more free to convey the message? OK, I get it. Good point.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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So apart from me, only one poster referring to a positive experience with a channel (page one referring to Kryaon)...is that all?



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 12:57 PM
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Bottomline: If these channelers do offer practical solutions to everyday problems without charging a penny, then consider these messages as ‘truth’. Otherwise, I’d save my money for the rainy days. Once again, I’d be wary of ‘New Age’ material. There are too many layers of ‘truth’, by the way. I don’t see why people need to be fascinated by those 'channelers', who may hold answers to anything imaginable.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by pikypiky
Bottomline: If these channelers do offer practical solutions to everyday problems without charging a penny, then consider these messages as ‘truth’.



You are the fourth person on this thread to state this, but its not true.

The very first time I met an ET-Channeller I booked one for me privately and she went into session for me. Not only could she...by channelling information from beyond the normal...tell me the exact name and profession of my mother (!) but also offer some convincing and effective solutions for various events and speak accurately and revealingly about my own extraterrestrial experiences.

The information I got...I would have gladly paid thousands for it...but the channellers time ended up only costing 50.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 02:16 PM
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Skyfloating good thread.


I would say that truth is a matter of opinion. And some conduits are more accurate then others.

A truth is (everbody) is a channel for something or someone. But what some might not understand is that they are actually bringing other parts of (their souls existance) into place, they are bringing in other personalities of themselves, the only channel is (to yourselves) in- other- existances, that have different personalities that deal with that living arrangement.

We are but one personality (in here) but there are many that are relating messages back through our light.


"There are many stages in human development and this would be one"

If time is happening (all at once) then this is a normal procedure for life.

A lot of what people will be entertaining is themselves in other existances.

-Think of it like a Cosmic Phone Call that reaches back into the only existance that matters ourselves-



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 02:34 PM
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The one example that I feel was the best known was Edgar Cayce. David Wilcock who claims to be some reincarnation has stated in one video, I have yet to find again, claims some of Edgar Cayces contacts were not the same or being deceptive. The claim about part of Atlantis rising may have referred to some technology also? Others might say since it was fiction or a myth, the sci-fi show Stargate Atlantis fulfilled the prophecy.

I guess it's in the way it's interpreted. I have wondered how many of his readings have yet to be published. Edgar Cayce, who had supposedly helped so many, went broke. I think this can be taken as a major example of why some people now charge?






[edit on 5-5-2008 by aleon1018]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


I think that the intrinsic problem with channellers for most disbelievers is that they aren't delivering anything that even remotely challenges and stimulates those who are jaded by established beliefs, and I can't emphasise that point enough.

After all, we're supposedly dealing with higher intelligences, and as such can only assume, and hope beyond hope, that their "evolution of consciousness" has given them real insight. A spiritual advantage, as it were.

Is it too much to expect that they may well have made real discoveries and inroads into the fields of quantum and metaphysics, perhaps managed to draw a direct link between our plane of existence and that numinous territory from whence all unexplainable phenomena may well originate? Is it too much to want them to say or do something special that simply cannot be ignored by even the most hardened skeptic? To me, all we're being supplied with is stagnant, "new age" concepts.

Of course, the devil's advocate would argue that because they are promoting known methods of gaining insight, that then indicates we already have the means of advancement at our disposal?

But if that's the case, then why haven't these ideals swept through our cultures like wildfire, sweeping all pre-existing and now outdated creeds aside, advocated in their journey by a righteous faithful who exhibit an unquestionable confidence that is supported by real, observable, spiritual transformations? A string of prophecies that continue to come true would be a real clincher, too.

Maybe I want too much. But I don't think I'm the only one.

Instead we are subjected to the usual, unsustantiated declarations. None of us can check if one ascended master truly was a conquering hero thirty five thousand years ago, or that another actually has a million strong fleet of spaceships of the coast of Saturn. Of course we can't check it, because if we could the illusion would be shattered. The fantasy draws in the faithful. The reality would ruin the whole darn thing.

I have no doubt that some truly believe they are channelling. The experience must be startling, and the transfer of knowledge has to feel life altering. This can be observed in several "professionals". Their conviction is incredible, the fervour with which they lecture mesmerizing. Yet I have to ask a question: is it not feasible that channellers are recieving insight, but from their own subconcious?

The human brain is a truly strange country. We haven't managed to explore all of it yet, so is it not at all possible that these "communications" are being broadcast from within?

We exist in a world that is apparently balancing on a knife-edge. Fear exists in every aspect of our lives. Would this not, maybe to even the most cynical, trigger a cultural survival instinct and provide a catalyst to the more open minded to try and find a solution? Channelled messages could well be a species-wide reply to our unspoken cry for help.

For many, the pursuit of science and politics would be a sufficient process. But for those who have troubled themselves to investigate alternative interests, UFOs etc, then this desire to help may well manifest in extraordinary ways. Speak to a writer if you can, listen to them speak of stories and ideas that just "pop" into existence unbidden and unexpected; musicians who awake with fully formed tunes running through their minds. To have this happen unexpectedly could well be misconstrued as a "contact".

For those who are unfamiliar with their own capability to generate foreign ideas, and who are experiencing these unfamiliar thoughts, could well unconsciously create an understandable model in which they can contain these concepts.

"Alien" could well be right, but as a concept, not a living being.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


my cynical querry :

why would aliens know or care who your mother was or what she did ?

this is not to belitle your mother - but your mothers details seem IMHO an irrelevant factoid - but if a ` caneller ` had engaged in a bit of cold reading / hot reading research - its the sort of easily accessed dynamite that would sucker a punter into uncritically accepting thier next message

as an example - who was / is the mother of gordon brown - the UK prime minister - and what was her profssion ?

few people even in the UK know the answer - is it important - maybee / maybee not - but it give some insite into the psychology of mr brown

so - i ask again - why do aliens know all about your mother ?




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