reply to post by JPhish
No, there are literally mountains of evidence - mountains of fossils. So far not one single fossil has been unearthed that throws evolution into
disarray. Not on solitary iota of evidence has been found that even casts the slightest shadow of a doubt over evolution. We've witnessed evolution
in labs, we've seen speciation occur in nature due to man's impact on the environment. How god could create the specific mosquito that lives only
in the London Underground before the London Underground existed is beyond me.
Compare that to any of the other "theories" (read: hypotheses), and they have exactly the opposite problem - a complete lack of evidence, just
wishful thinking, and a desired outcome all ready to roll - they just can't quite join the dots between god and what we currently see, without having
to invoke some untestable, unmeasurable, unscientific process that "magically" ties up the loose ends without any explanation other than something
read from a bronze-age farmer's manual.
A Why to Atheists & Darwinism, page 3
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reply posted on 7-5-2008 @ 02:59 PM by Conspiriology
Originally posted by dave420
No, there are literally mountains of evidence - mountains of fossils. So far not one single fossil has been unearthed that throws evolution into disarray. Not on solitary iota of evidence has been found that even casts the slightest shadow of a doubt over evolution. We've witnessed evolution in labs, we've seen speciation occur in nature due to man's impact on the environment. How god could create the specific mosquito that lives only in the London Underground before the London Underground existed is beyond me.
Macro evolution dave,, we aren't asking for a mountain dave and would be happy with something the size of a mustard seed but you can't even do that.
How god could create the specific mosquito that lives only in the London Underground before the London Underground existed is beyond me.
heh still using differen't "kinds" of versions of the same "kind" of thing to confuse people with no faith are ya dave.
Ill tell ya how you can understand it Dave but there is a difference in believing what you don't understand and understanding what you don't believe in. As the person in the quote is saying, nothing complicated about that
Mountain?? I see no mountain I only hear about it over and over by you but you never present us with what you claim is true. I have saved over 21 posts of you telling someone they "clearly" (ya like clear I take it) don't understand evolution", when clearly, we DO, just not ALL evolution.
Just the kind you call the mountain.
I hear people describe it as if they were Richard Dreyfus in close encounters of the third kind movie. They are just as obsessed with the mountain only in this case, they can't even make one out of thier mashed potatoes much less evidence to prove macro evolution and Darwinian Dogma.
Go ahead call my bluff
Ill be here
- Con
[edit on 7-5-2008 by Conspiriology]
reply posted on 8-5-2008 @ 11:03 AM by dave420
reply to post by Conspiriology
You just don't get it.
EVOLUTION: Has lots of evidence supporting it. The theory adapts (evolves?
) over time in light of new evidence. So far not one piece of evidence
has damaged the theory, only strengthening it.
CREATION: No evidence. None. Not one shred. Not one tiny, tiny little grain of sand in support of it. Nothing. Just the voices in some peoples' heads, and in aforementioned farmer's manual. That's it.
So, no, fossils don't disprove god. That's not our job. We already have an explanation for how life works. If you want your theory taken seriously, YOU have to give us evidence god exists and has done what you say he has. Otherwise your claims make as much sense as people saying the universe was sneezed out of the Great Green Arkleseizure.
reply to post by cruzion
Is your name Jez North, and have you ever been on a life-glug?
You just don't get it.
EVOLUTION: Has lots of evidence supporting it. The theory adapts (evolves?
) over time in light of new evidence. So far not one piece of evidence
has damaged the theory, only strengthening it. CREATION: No evidence. None. Not one shred. Not one tiny, tiny little grain of sand in support of it. Nothing. Just the voices in some peoples' heads, and in aforementioned farmer's manual. That's it.
So, no, fossils don't disprove god. That's not our job. We already have an explanation for how life works. If you want your theory taken seriously, YOU have to give us evidence god exists and has done what you say he has. Otherwise your claims make as much sense as people saying the universe was sneezed out of the Great Green Arkleseizure.
reply to post by cruzion
Is your name Jez North, and have you ever been on a life-glug?
reply posted on 8-5-2008 @ 01:42 PM by dave420
reply to post by 44soulslayer
Your penultimate line was spot-on Without wishing to sound inflammatory, the same can be said for any fundamentalist. They somehow are free to
pick and choose what logic they follow, all the while keeping their "I believe in God!" card ready so they can wave it and get out of any discussion
with their beliefs in-tact.
Your penultimate line was spot-on
Without wishing to sound inflammatory, the same can be said for any fundamentalist. They somehow are free to
pick and choose what logic they follow, all the while keeping their "I believe in God!" card ready so they can wave it and get out of any discussion
with their beliefs in-tact.reply posted on 8-5-2008 @ 03:59 PM by 44soulslayer
reply to post by Conspiriology
Con why is it so important for you to force your views onto others?
I'm a scientist, but I can respect your freedom to think as you please. Have you not the common decency to do the same?
I find your bible's explanation inadequate, rife with errors and ultimately unbelievable. Im sure you probably view evolution in the same light.
In the end, it does not matter what we believe on this issue because I know that evolution will occur even if we do not acknowledge it. And you will presumably continue to believe that humans will remain as they are...
Ultimately, I find it of more value to society if we scientists and you evangelicals were to get along instead of arguing because I very much doubt either of us is particularly going to change our minds.
The only reason this debate should be of importance is when we discuss what should be taught to children in schools. In which case, the law of the separation of church and state is abundantly clear- religion has no place in public schools.
Thus I find this debate of little use since neither party is inclined to cede ground.
I bid you a good day sir.
Con why is it so important for you to force your views onto others?
I'm a scientist, but I can respect your freedom to think as you please. Have you not the common decency to do the same?
I find your bible's explanation inadequate, rife with errors and ultimately unbelievable. Im sure you probably view evolution in the same light.
In the end, it does not matter what we believe on this issue because I know that evolution will occur even if we do not acknowledge it. And you will presumably continue to believe that humans will remain as they are...
Ultimately, I find it of more value to society if we scientists and you evangelicals were to get along instead of arguing because I very much doubt either of us is particularly going to change our minds.
The only reason this debate should be of importance is when we discuss what should be taught to children in schools. In which case, the law of the separation of church and state is abundantly clear- religion has no place in public schools.
Thus I find this debate of little use since neither party is inclined to cede ground.
I bid you a good day sir.
reply posted on 8-5-2008 @ 04:22 PM by Conspiriology
Originally posted by 44soulslayer
I just had a rather interesting thought about Creationists.
A sizeable number of far-right neo-nazis in the USA such as Aryan Nations, Tom Metzeger's WAR et al are avowed Christians and creationists.
Mmmm Kinda stuff Jesus was teaching about huh? Yeah sounds real Christian to me all right yep suuure does. What Bible passage is it where Jesus was teaching about wearing those KKK robes and using swastikas in place of Cross? I forget I can't seem to find it anywhere.
That's right guy,, it isn't in there but The Bible does teach many will say they are Christians and by their fruits you will know them.
The only kind of fruit Nazis bring fourt is this
www.answersingenesis.org...
reply posted on 8-5-2008 @ 05:31 PM by Conspiriology
Originally posted by 44soulslayer
Con why is it so important for you to force your views onto others?
Hi there, I don't think we've met so Ill ask that you not interpret any of the tone in my rebuttal to super dave as "forcing". I believe Ashley has explained my own sentiments regarding why I might seem that way but I think it is generally not expected by many to see a Christian tell it like it is and that is exactly what I will do.
I don't seek the approval of those who would suggest some nicey nice Christian reputation to live up to and when mocked or made fun of, I only turn the other cheek ONCE.
I'm a scientist, but I can respect your freedom to think as you please. Have you not the common decency to do the same?
Whether you respect my freedom to think as I please, you are talking to a veteran of the military so I pretty much understand my freedoms and defended same. As for yours? I never threatened yours and as I said I have defended YOURS too.
I find your bible's explanation inadequate, rife with errors and ultimately unbelievable.
My "Bible" explanation? it might be inadequate because it wasn't addressing anything you asked was it? What part of the explanation is not true? Can you tell me ? Falsify it then
Im sure you probably view evolution in the same light.
No I don not view it in the same light I know much of evolution is a fact but not the bunk Darwin couldn't substantiate ie; macro-evo
In the end, it does not matter what we believe on this issue because I know that evolution will occur even if we do not acknowledge it.
Yeah I understand your meaning and have a similar one regarding the second coming of Christ will occur even if we don't acknowledge it.
Ultimately, I find it of more value to society if we scientists and you evangelicals were to get along instead of arguing because I very much doubt either of us is particularly going to change our minds.
Oh I feel exactly the same way In fact I hope and I pray that this would be this way someday but BE ADVISED: It isn't that Christians are unwilling to make the mend, and it isn't Scientists that reject us Christians from the mend, it is Atheists paranioa that whatever I mean no matter what we say about Science it must be Science disguised as relgion and that makes me so angry you have NO IDEA. I can no more suggest a creation aspect of Science wihtout it having religious implications if it is not true then I can prove God using the scientific method. So what is the big deal? I think I know what the big deal is but it is only a hunch and I don't like to speculate .
The only reason this debate should be of importance is when we discuss what should be taught to children in schools. In which case, the law of the separation of church and state is abundantly clear- religion has no place in public schools.
Well, see there ya go, than ya know what I say??
We get rid of people like you running public schools and show me what it says in the preamble of every state constitution in America just read one and tell me what it says about separation powers. Show me where the Government has any right to stifle my right to religious expression. This is the very reason YOU have accused ME of committing as I know The ACLU and Atheists are the ones who have made this so. I can garantee you, that separation crap is the same argument Atheist in the military are suing for when they couldn't have a meeting about Atheism. They are GOVERNMENT Property in the military so I guess I should expect this double standard a lot from Atheist huh.
Thus I find this debate of little use since neither party is inclined to cede ground.
Atheists want religion out of science when Religion let them in using freedom of speech and manufactured scopes trial evidence called piltdownman to get into our schools. Then they came up with this crock about Thomas Jefferson writing a wall to keep out Religion when he never said that. They tell us he wasn't a Christian, ha ha that's funny because I have a photograph of the actual letter and it sure says he was when I read it. ultramedia.freehostia.com...
We are working on that and many other diabolical things they did to oppress religious expression.
We will quit paying taxes on public schools choose pvt schools or home schooling but I don't think YOUR Science has proved to advance anything but Atheism and then we wonder why we have so many shootings in schools. Even Klebold was talking about how cool Natural Selection was as he shot his teachers and students. Then we wonder why 1 in 4 kids in schools have a STD.
Yeah Atheists have done a Bang up Job with the monolopy they have on Science in our Schools, especially instilling that awesome morailty and sexual evolution "stuff" jeeez.
Than you have the unmitigated audacity to suggest I am forcing my views?
I should BE so inconvenienced
- Con
[edit on 8-5-2008 by Conspiriology]
reply posted on 8-5-2008 @ 07:04 PM by OhZone
Reply to cruzion who says:
"OK. The fossil record, and stratigraphy. Over time, the eolian system, ....."
Just because different life forms are found in different stata, does not mean that the top one developed from the bottom one. It simply means that there are different forms in different strata. The scientists are even finding that some of those that they thought had evolved into another, did in fact co-exist.
If you think that there were pre-humans who walked hunched over and bent kneed, you have not studied the dynamics of physical locomotion. Try it yourself. Any bent over animals were quadropeds and not bipeds.
No species has ever changed into another. Forget the descent from the ape family. It didn't happen. Oh, but then all you evolutionists have Faith in your beliefs, because you have no evidence. A pile of bone of differently formed creatures is not evidence.
The ID'ers have you beat on the level of faith tho.
BTW, I am an atheist. Please don't ever equate atheism with evolutionists. If there was any evolution, it did not happen on Earth.
Go here and read the Essays:
No evolution
None of this nonsense should be taught in schools. When the question arises, the prudent thing to say is, "we don't know how humans or anything else came to be on Earth."
The argument of the fight with the dog, is totally silly wishful thinking.
Most dogs fight with the leap and slash technique. Kind of hard to get hold of him to do the choking. Those that would crunch and hang on would likely have your arm. Lots of luck choking him with the other. If he had your leg, you would not likely have sufficient leverage to do the choking.
You who support this idea have never even played with a good sized dog. They all have very powerful neck muscles. When they come in close and don't immediately leap away, they they shake their head so as to deliver multiple slashes. You would do well to just think of then as a person with a multi bladed knife, and reconsider your confidence.
"OK. The fossil record, and stratigraphy. Over time, the eolian system, ....."
Just because different life forms are found in different stata, does not mean that the top one developed from the bottom one. It simply means that there are different forms in different strata. The scientists are even finding that some of those that they thought had evolved into another, did in fact co-exist.
If you think that there were pre-humans who walked hunched over and bent kneed, you have not studied the dynamics of physical locomotion. Try it yourself. Any bent over animals were quadropeds and not bipeds.
No species has ever changed into another. Forget the descent from the ape family. It didn't happen. Oh, but then all you evolutionists have Faith in your beliefs, because you have no evidence. A pile of bone of differently formed creatures is not evidence.
The ID'ers have you beat on the level of faith tho.
BTW, I am an atheist. Please don't ever equate atheism with evolutionists. If there was any evolution, it did not happen on Earth.
Go here and read the Essays:
No evolution
None of this nonsense should be taught in schools. When the question arises, the prudent thing to say is, "we don't know how humans or anything else came to be on Earth."
The argument of the fight with the dog, is totally silly wishful thinking.
Most dogs fight with the leap and slash technique. Kind of hard to get hold of him to do the choking. Those that would crunch and hang on would likely have your arm. Lots of luck choking him with the other. If he had your leg, you would not likely have sufficient leverage to do the choking.
You who support this idea have never even played with a good sized dog. They all have very powerful neck muscles. When they come in close and don't immediately leap away, they they shake their head so as to deliver multiple slashes. You would do well to just think of then as a person with a multi bladed knife, and reconsider your confidence.
reply posted on 9-5-2008 @ 07:58 AM by dave420
reply to post by cruzion
Yup! That's it! I'm a bible-basher now! Praise Jeeeebus! I've seen the light!
Evolution never happened. What happened was one day, for some unknown reason, God decided to make the world. Through some unknown process, and again for unknown reasons, he created all the animals as we see. He also, probably just to be a jerk, put some fossils in the ground, so it looked like animals had evolved. He also, again for jerkiness, made DNA that tells us quite clearly that we're all related, when in fact we're not.
Damn this is easy once you get rid of the science! You can just claim something without having to back anything up! Why didn't I think of this sooner?
GOD DID IT! GOD DID EVERYTHING!
Yup! That's it! I'm a bible-basher now! Praise Jeeeebus! I've seen the light!
Evolution never happened. What happened was one day, for some unknown reason, God decided to make the world. Through some unknown process, and again for unknown reasons, he created all the animals as we see. He also, probably just to be a jerk, put some fossils in the ground, so it looked like animals had evolved. He also, again for jerkiness, made DNA that tells us quite clearly that we're all related, when in fact we're not.
Damn this is easy once you get rid of the science! You can just claim something without having to back anything up! Why didn't I think of this sooner?
GOD DID IT! GOD DID EVERYTHING!
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