Shards of the Illuminati

reply to post by Maban


LOL, I thought it was bogus anyway, I mean why declare themselves like that if they value secrecy? Although, some of it could be construed as true for the Remnants, from a certain POV right?

Originally posted by Maban
I feel the need to clarify this, if not for your views, for that of our general audience. Namely, if you mean "school," by means of "school of thought," then indeed this is accurate. However, if you mean "school" in a literal contextual sense then it is indeed inaccurate. We do not possess any "schools" public or otherwise. We possess a sort of mentors and learners, akin to many Asian Sensei methodologies. "Mystery Schools" are not a part nor are they affiliated in any way with the Shards. The Brotherhood of Light is seen in our eyes as a "mimicking" of our, and others beliefs into a sort of collected whole. One which I personally think inaccurate because of several inaccurate sources of knowledge. They have come to know of certain "teachings" from both us and other organizations which explains the "convoluted-ness " of their teachings.

I had heard some of the Brotherhood, but it was mostly connected to the GFL and Ascended Masters and aliens as well. What do you believe on aliens; the Galactic Federation of Light, the Draconians and Insectoids, Grays, etc?

Originally posted by Maban
I woudl further Dispute both the Dharma and Gnosis aspects. We do not see our duties as spiritual nor "higher" is any way than another's, and furthermore we do not hold to the idea of actual "mystical beings" but more so physical concrete ones. Although I do admit, they feel a good fit; a fit endorsed by the Mystery Schools, however they are inaccurate when looking from within, to the outside, as it may be called by some. To reiterate, my and many of the Illuminon's beliefs do stem and are indeed akin to that of Buddhism, but vary wildly from them given what we know, and have come to learn. We do not hold to Buddhism en whole, or even necessarily in part, but it is indeed the close spiritual outlook, which is recognized by the whole of the world.

When you say looking from within to the outside, do you mean searching for a Divine Being and what a person may believe is their calling; sort of like what we're here for? You mentioned Christianity in an above post about free will.

Could free will and destiny work together, that hypothetically that we could have a destiny but reject it as well? You make a good point on reinterpretations, retelling of stories, etc on religious stories, but if there were such problems, then God may not be making an evil following as you suggest. The message is good, but HUMANS make the errors, it's human nature is it not?

Even in Revelations, it is said those who purposefully take away or add to the Scripture will be cursed by God as well for blasphemy and distorting the Truth. We have free will to reject destiny if we have one, but to choose good or evil as well. But as with any decision, there are consequences, thus this could be seen as destiny. Free will also denotes not being under an iron fist of fear and violence as Satan would want, as Scripture does say God would prefer if you loved Him and not fear Him.

reply to post by Darky6K

Originally posted by Darky6K
I had heard some of the Brotherhood, but it was mostly connected to the GFL and Ascended Masters and aliens as well. What do you believe on aliens; the Galactic Federation of Light, the Draconians and Insectoids, Grays, etc?

I will contact you via U2U regarding this topic.

When you say looking from within to the outside, do you mean searching for a Divine Being and what a person may believe is their calling; sort of like what we're here for?

No. I do not mean searching for a divine being, or searching themselves to become what they were meant to be. Searching for a divine being, in my opinion, is a fool's quest. Searching for understanding, however is the path towards wisdom. Thus my dispute of Gnosticism. Secondly, one's path can only be found by walking, by learning, by exploring the world around us, and through it discover ourselves. A search for self is futile, unless you walk through the world around you, otherwise you will become so disconnected (like some here) that our reality, and the reality your mind will have created, will be inseparable. And you will be forever lost in your own imaginings, unable to escape your self built prison.

You mentioned Christianity in an above post about free will. Could free will and destiny work together, that hypothetically that we could have a destiny but reject it as well? You make a good point on reinterpretations, retelling of stories, etc on religious stories, but if there were such problems, then God may not be making an evil following as you suggest. The message is good, but HUMANS make the errors, it's human nature is it not?

Some events will happen regardless, however which of these events will come to pass is up to us. As per our actions we make, so too come inevitable consequences to these actions, consequences which cannot be avoided. We can make decisions to avoid them however, but if we make such decisions which do not, their consequences will come to pass.

Even in Revelations, it is said those who purposefully take away or add to the Scripture will be cursed by God as well for blasphemy and distorting the Truth. We have free will to reject destiny if we have one, but to choose good or evil as well. But as with any decision, there are consequences, thus this could be seen as destiny. Free will also denotes not being under an iron fist of fear and violence as Satan would want, as Scripture does say God would prefer if you loved Him and not fear Him.

In all honestly I will not, nor cannot debate the "deeper" meaning of scripture, especially that of the Bible. In my personal opinion, I see it as a flawed creation, an incomplete and unsolvable equation to be analogous. I prefer to rebuild the equation, rather then attempt to surmise what the broken equation "truly means." I apologize if I come across as arrogant, or incompassionate, or even inconsiderate. But even I have limits I place upon myself, and my mind.

I know that despite what I say here, few will change "who" they believe in, if any at all; but that is not why I am here. I am here to help others consider "what" they believe in. The Bible says "You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

I believe in the messages of ancient scripture, the purpose of those messages. I do not believe in their literal meanings, nor do I believe in their messengers, heavenly or otherwise. I believe in ideals, and concrete actions and individuals, for that is what shapes the form of this reality.

- Maban

reply to post by pillarofsalt


Jesus told me ...........that you are a Borderline(PSY101).Relax and have a Hershey's chocolate bar.It just might make you a psychic.

Originally posted by Maban
I will contact you via U2U regarding this topic.

I look forward to the U2U, I think it would be very interesting.

Originally posted by Maban
No. I do not mean searching for a divine being, or searching themselves to become what they were meant to be. Searching for a divine being, in my opinion, is a fool's quest. Searching for understanding, however is the path towards wisdom. Thus my dispute of Gnosticism. Secondly, one's path can only be found by walking, by learning, by exploring the world around us, and through it discover ourselves. A search for self is futile, unless you walk through the world around you, otherwise you will become so disconnected (like some here) that our reality, and the reality your mind will have created, will be inseparable. And you will be forever lost in your own imaginings, unable to escape your self built prison.

I understand, I think. By looking inwards we risk becoming insane or looking at shadows rather than what is around us. Experience and nature are what build us. And I thought you talked about a Divine Being, because you said some Illuminon do hold to that belief.

Some events will happen regardless, however which of these events will come to pass is up to us. As per our actions we make, so too come inevitable consequences to these actions, consequences which cannot be avoided. We can make decisions to avoid them however, but if we make such decisions which do not, their consequences will come to pass.

That's what I mean, we can prevent certain disasters if we should choose to act rationally. Destiny could be the outcome of numerous and infinite numbers of choices and reactions.

In all honestly I will not, nor cannot debate the "deeper" meaning of scripture, especially that of the Bible. In my personal opinion, I see it as a flawed creation, an incomplete and unsolvable equation to be analogous. I prefer to rebuild the equation, rather then attempt to surmise what the broken equation "truly means." I apologize if I come across as arrogant, or incompassionate, or even inconsiderate. But even I have limits I place upon myself, and my mind.

I know that despite what I say here, few will change "who" they believe in, if any at all; but that is not why I am here. I am here to help others consider "what" they believe in. The Bible says "You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth."

I believe in the messages of ancient scripture, the purpose of those messages. I do not believe in their literal meanings, nor do I believe in their messengers, heavenly or otherwise. I believe in ideals, and concrete actions and individuals, for that is what shapes the form of this reality.

- Maban

I see what you're saying; regarding the message. That although you may not believe it to be historical fact, the message there is genuine. As I said above, I only mentioned it because you said an Illuminon could hold such beliefs in a faith or Scripture.

But what I was suggesting was to make a point on par with your own; that because of translations and rewritings, maybe somethings are distorted. You and I are on the same page on that, the difference with me is that I believe somethings may have been added in due to cultures of the time. Example being women's role. The NT says that women are equal, yet history shows that literalists lower women in society. Human nature regarding their own beliefs, their own arrogance so to speak.

Questions:

(1) Do you see the majority of the Shards and Remnents becoming more moderate at some point, or are they fated to be at odds with one another?

(2) Will the Brotherhood of Light, the moderate influence, triumph in the end?

(3) In comparision to Hamas/Fatah and the Shard/Remnant/BoL situations, who do you think will be able to coelese first? Or is this a continual thing for one or the other or both?

(4) Do you think it healthy for there to be some Shards and Remnants who are outside of the centrist Order, to remain outside? Or do you beleive that a total group concensus can happen?

(5) Are there fundamental incompatibilities that exist in your Shard that prevent an alliance with the Brotherhood of Light? For example, many Hamas branches have indicated that their insistance on the disagreement with the right of Israel to exist is a dealbreaker, that they will continue on until that day that Isreal is no more no matter the losses. Thus their continuing disagreement with Fatah.

(6) Do you have a personal opinion on these matters that preserves your loyalty to your Shard while providing your two-cents worth on where the Shard should look for benifit?

(7) Is their a culture in your Shard of cross-working with other Shards, Remnants or other Groups? If so, then would you say that your Shard has become more or less by doing this?

(8) Do you find any incompatibilities between the Shards/Remnants pertaining to non-Luciferic vs. Luciferic vs. Satanic thought and tradition?

reply to post by Darky6K

Originally posted by Darky6K
I understand, I think. By looking inwards we risk becoming insane or looking at shadows rather than what is around us. Experience and nature are what build us. And I thought you talked about a Divine Being, because you said some Illuminon do hold to that belief.

Well, they "could." But in all honesty, I have yet to meet one whom does. Though if they chose to believe in one,then it is their prerogative. I believe the because of the knowledge we possess, the duties we uphold, we intrinsically must and do possess a different outlook, a different mentality; one which does not necessarily prevent belief in a higher being, but makes it so belief in one makes things much more complicated, and almost cantankerous in your daily life/duties.

That's what I mean, we can prevent certain disasters if we should choose to act rationally. Destiny could be the outcome of numerous and infinite numbers of choices and reactions.

Precisely, this is a reason why I find some religious outlooks... disturbing, especially the "end timers." In believe in they have no hand in fate, they doom themselves by inaction. Making the belief, a reality.

But what I was suggesting was to make a point on par with your own; that because of translations and rewritings, maybe somethings are distorted. You and I are on the same page on that, the difference with me is that I believe somethings may have been added in due to cultures of the time. Example being women's role. The NT says that women are equal, yet history shows that literalists lower women in society. Human nature regarding their own beliefs, their own arrogance so to speak.

I feel I will elaborate on this particular subject within that U2U.

- Maban

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Maban]

reply to post by JoanTheBlind

Originally posted by JoanTheBlind
(1) Do you see the majority of the Shards and Remnents becoming more moderate at some point, or are they fated to be at odds with one another?

Unlike, if not the fighting will intensify, and the division gaped wider. We believe in fundamental opposites. Asking if we will ever find common ground, is likened to asking Christians if they will ever find common ground with Satanism. There just are no similarities, any semblance that once existed are all but gone now. Perhaps centuries ago it may have been possible, but now, it is essentially impossible.

(2) Will the Brotherhood of Light, the moderate influence, triumph in the end?

I believe the moderate influence will only curb the actions of those on opposite ends of the spectrum. What I would like to think, is that all parties involved are rendered obsolete, and that humanity triumphs, without need for either party.

(3) In comparision to Hamas/Fatah and the Shard/Remnant/BoL situations, who do you think will be able to coelese first? Or is this a continual thing for one or the other or both?

Unless something drastic changes, new revelations, nothing will change.

(4) Do you think it healthy for there to be some Shards and Remnants who are outside of the centrist Order, to remain outside? Or do you believe that a total group consensus can happen?

I am unsure if I am correctly interpreting your question but, The Shards are all aligned together in a single movement. Certainly there are disagreements of opinion, but they are easily remedied. The Remnants are rarely aligned in any way, shape or form. Some are aligned for short durations, others consumed by others, others take on whole new shapes.

(5) Are there fundamental incompatibilities that exist in your Shard that prevent an alliance with the Brotherhood of Light? For example, many Hamas branches have indicated that their insistance on the disagreement with the right of Israel to exist is a dealbreaker, that they will continue on until that day that Isreal is no more no matter the losses. Thus their continuing disagreement with Fatah.

Yes, our perspectives on reality, and the nature of the universe. They believe (typically) in magical or paranormal forces. We see these subjects as scientific events currently beyond our comprehension. Our ideals may be similar, but our ideas world apart.

(6) Do you have a personal opinion on these matters that preserves your loyalty to your Shard while providing your two-cents worth on where the Shard should look for benifit?

What "preserves my loyalty" is the knowledge I have gained about many things, the true nature and shape of things. This knowledge has helped me come closer to a better understanding of, virtually everything. I also know that way I have dedicated my life to,is a cause which will preserve and protect humanity, and humanity's future regardless of global/human circumstance. In regard to "where to look for benefit," well, where they currently look. We possess the original teachings of Illuminism, as they were handed down to us. These teaching keep us on the "luminous path," and prevent us from moving astray, as the Remnants have irrevocably done.

(7) Is their a culture in your Shard of cross-working with other Shards, Remnants or other Groups? If so, then would you say that your Shard has become more or less by doing this?

As I mentioned before we work hand in hand with every shard, we are a kinship, a civilization unto itself,unified with a common purpose and hope. We have not nor do not operate nor negotiate with the Remnants. We have lost good people in such futile and vein attempts.

(8) Do you find any incompatibilities between the Shards/Remnants pertaining to non-Luciferic vs. Luciferic vs. Satanic thought and tradition?

I honestly do not understand your question.

- Maban

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Maban]

M: Unlike, if not the fighting will intensify, and the division gaped wider. We believe in fundamental opposites. Asking if we will ever find common ground, is likened to asking Christians if they will ever find common ground with Satanism. There just are no similarities, any semblance that once existed are all but gone now. Perhaps centuries ago it may have been possible, but now, it is essentially impossible.

J: Yes, but in America, Satanists and Christians often find themselves working together in a common environment (ie. the workplace) and there is little friction there. Because of the American Ideal of the Freedom of Religion, it has had a systemic effect of allowing this to occur.

The Christians have their sects, and a few skermishes of an intellectual sort between them, but they are quite cohesive in their own way, in that America stands, there is no war between the States, and we're pretty good at keeping well fed and giving ourselves the occational luxury.

Do you feel that there is any potential in the Shards and Remnant enjoying a lower level of conflict in the future?

M: I believe the moderate influence will only curb the actions of those on opposite ends of the spectrum. What I would like to think, is that all parties involved are rendered obsolete, and that humanity triumphs, without need for either party.

J: I think that some leadership is necessary, though with the litest hand possible. To be honest Maben, I wouldn't mind you being in power. You have your rough spots but people like you and you have a natural feel of correct leadership about you.

M: Unless something drastic changes, new revelations, nothing will change.

J: Does it need to change though? What is the next avenue of work and choice I wonder?

M: I am unsure if I am correctly interpreting your question but, The Shards are all aligned together in a single movement. Certainly there are disagreements of opinion, but they are easily remedied. The Remnants are rarely aligned in any way, shape or form. Some are aligned for short durations, others consumed by others, others take on whole new shapes.

J: Do you mind me asking what the typical Shard activity is? Do they concentrate on support of government leadership (like Lucis Trust) or do they focus more on humanitarian, boots-on-the-ground activities (ie. charities, soup kitchens, 3rd World efforts, etc)?

To be honest, I wouldn't mind talking to the various Shards and finding one that is peaceful and working litely on something humanitarian. Nothing world changing, just so that I can be of Service. I have my own endevors I am working on that I might share with you at some point, but I'm always open to something new or interesting.

M: Yes, our perspectives on reality, and the nature of the universe. They believe (typically) in magical or paranormal forces. We see these subjects as scientific events currently beyond our comprehension. Our ideals may be similar, but our ideas world apart.

J: I agree. However I have been noticing a crippling of these paranormal ideas such that the doctrine is palitable even to the practical man. I sense an intent to water it down such that people with your outlook could be tempted to say "Well, if that's the way things are headed, there isn't that much there that really conflicts with what I beleive...so what the heck, I'm in."

To be honest, I beleive that this watering down is actually a good thing. The mysteries are a bit intimidating to me, and I think that mankind is not meant to understand too much.

cont.

M: What "preserves my loyalty" is the knowledge I have gained about many things, the true nature and shape of things. This knowledge has helped me come closer to a better understanding of, virtually everything. I also know that way I have dedicated my life to,is a cause which will preserve and protect humanity, and humanity's future regardless of global/human circumstance. In regard to "where to look for benefit," well, where they currently look. We possess the original teachings of Illuminism, as they were handed down to us. These teaching keep us on the "luminous path," and prevent us from moving astray, as the Remnants have irrevocably done.

J: I apologize if my words were not well choosen there, Maban.

I would like to know more about these original teachings. Do they have a format similar to Buddhism, in that Buddhism is quite good at saying OK, this is the most imporant, then these things are of importance, like the 3 NT's and the 8 FP. I just want to understand the main thrust of the Shards, I guess.

J: As I mentioned before we work hand in hand with every shard, we are a kinship, a civilization unto itself,unified with a common purpose and hope. We have not nor do not operate nor negotiate with the Remnants. We have lost good people in such futile and vein attempts.

M: This is interesting, non-negotiation.

My guys have been having success with re-education and rehabilitation. It has opened up the possibility of slowly (ever so slowly) healing old wounds of various sorts and returning even criminals back to some level of positive behavior and viability.

I thought I'd share that with you to brighten your day a bit, Maban. It costs, but I think over time and as the idea becomes fashionable that there is some potential there. However, daily, I am reminded of the difficulties and sacrifice involved, so I understand your Shard's position on this subject.

J: So the Remnants have a social difficulty with cooperation. Is this a good recap? With a difficulty with cooperation, have you found that Remnants tend to have a short lifespan as a group?

M: I honestly do not understand your question.

J: Then I'll ask it in a different way.

I am getting the impression that you perceive the Remnants as being Dark (ie. the opposite to Light). Is the differences mainly based on personality, or tradition, or Lightness (ie. dark vs. light vs. chaotic), or what?

---

In closing, how would you say things are within your Shard? Good? Bad? Problems but sustainable and livable?

[edit on 24-1-2009 by JoanTheBlind]

reply to post by JoanTheBlind

Originally posted by JoanTheBlind
J: Yes, but in America, Satanists and Christians often find themselves working together in a common environment (ie. the workplace) and there is little friction there. Because of the American Ideal of the Freedom of Religion, it has had a systemic effect of allowing this to occur.

Indeed, I am sure Remnant and other similarly affiliated individuals do work alongside Illuminons in public. But within the realm of our own realms, our own facilities, and/or places of gathering, no such cooperation exists. Last time (approximately five years ago) there was an attempt at peace, a meeting at a neutral location. Unfortunately it was a farce. Our representatives were there, but were gunned down without even so much as a words utterance. The Remnant we were attempting to negotiate with saw it as an opportunity to attempt to take out our higher leadership. As a result we retaliated and neutralized three of their facilities. Our people came to the meeting with minimal security, and minimally armed, yet they were gunned down without so much as a provocation or reason to do so. In the process I lost my childhood friend because of their treachery. We may want peace, coexistence, understanding, but they do not. They have made it infinitely clear that they see us an a hindrance, an obstacle to be forcibly removed. We feel if we did make peace with them, at a compromise, it woudl be a compromise to humanity, and in effect a betrayal of our purpose, and our duties. To continue through the analogy to an end, to make a deal with them, woudl be making a deal with the devil. We may survive, peace woudl ensue, but far darker times wold ensue, and all hope may be lost. We simply cannot risk such a deal, not any more, not after all that they have done, not after all the opportunities we have given them. To be honest, I am not so inclined to even give them another opportunity to slaughter our people in cold blood. Enough of our people's blood has been spilt in the haphazard pursuit of an armistice

The Christians have their sects, and a few skirmishes of an intellectual sort between them, but they are quite cohesive in their own way, in that America stands, there is no war between the States, and we're pretty good at keeping well fed and giving ourselves the occasional luxury.

No war between the states, no war yet. I feel a second civil war is inevitable. Those whom bow to authority and what they are told, against those whom are free thinkers, and resist actions of subterfuge.

Do you feel that there is any potential in the Shards and Remnant enjoying a lower level of conflict in the future?

We have just recently transcended a new low for them. Before it was skirmishes in the filed, occasional infiltration and assault of fringe facilities, but they have gone too far. They most recently attacked the Icelandic Shard, home of the High Council. They assassinated 84 people within the Shard, 16 of which were High Councilors. Another 28 were killed when one of our transports were shot down over the north Atlantic, bringing the total body count to 112. Nearly five years ago I was second in command of Operation for the Seattle Shard. Two years ago my commander was KIA, and I became the Chief Commander of Operations. Nearly three months ago rioting broke out in Iceland, rioting which we dispatched Illuminons to help subside. It was a ruse, while a once thought defeated Remnant, attacked the Icelandic Shard killing our senior leadership, the High Council, all except for two who made it out at the cost of their Illuminon protectors. In one day I went from fith in line of succession, to the Temporary Prime Guardian of the Seattle Shard.

I may be too close to this to see it objectively, but when these bastards slaughtered my fellow Illuminons, I am more inclined to take my olive branch of peace, and sharpen it into the point of a spear.

J: I think that some leadership is necessary, though with the lightest hand possible. To be honest Maban, I wouldn't mind you being in power. You have your rough spots but people like you and you have a natural feel of correct leadership about you.

I do not think any leadership necessary, role-models yes, inspiring individuals yes, but leaders, no. We need a sort of global puree democracy, once which will eventually be possible in the years to come. Well thank you for those kind words, but I do not lead, aside perhaps from my fellow Illuminons. Otherwise I am a guide, I show the path, but I do not lead one down it.

J: Does it need to change though? What is the next avenue of work and choice I wonder?

A new world, by and for humanity.

J: Do you mind me asking what the typical Shard activity is? Do they concentrate on support of government leadership (like Lucis Trust) or do they focus more on humanitarian, boots-on-the-ground activities (ie. charities, soup kitchens, 3rd World efforts, etc)?

Its all over the place to be frank. We don't see any one of them as more important than another, with the glaring exception of offensive combat operations. You might look at us of more "preventers" these days, than "helpers." We prevent bad things from happening more then we help along good things, unfortunately.

To be honest, I wouldn't mind talking to the various Shards and finding one that is peaceful and working litely on something humanitarian. Nothing world changing, just so that I can be of Service. I have my own endeavors I am working on that I might share with you at some point, but I'm always open to something new or interesting.

Well all Shards are peaceful, unless your looking for pacifists, thats a different case. Some exist,but in small number. They though, are typically scientists and instructors, then they are actual field Illiminons.

Secondly, you don't exactly "talk" to them. In addition, we do not directly interfere in global affairs, we work through proxies, and corporations which progress our duties and assistance to the world. It is how we both help the world, and protect ourselves

>>> Continued

[edit on 24-1-2009 by Maban]

>>> Continued

J: I agree. However I have been noticing a crippling of these paranormal ideas such that the doctrine is palitable even to the practical man. I sense an intent to water it down such that people with your outlook could be tempted to say "Well, if that's the way things are headed, there isn't that much there that really conflicts with what I beleive...so what the heck, I'm in."

I woudl disagree, I am a real stickler for transparency and in depth detail, as are my fellow Illuminon.

To be honest, I believe that this watering down is actually a good thing. The mysteries are a bit intimidating to me, and I think that mankind is not meant to understand too much.

Just because we cannot understand it doesn't mean we should not try. I just hold to the idea that staring into the void for too long is a bad thing. Stare too long and your mind will enter but never leave. I have seen that trait here especially pronounced on ATS.

I would like to know more about these original teachings. Do they have a format similar to Buddhism, in that Buddhism is quite good at saying OK, this is the most imporant, then these things are of importance, like the 3 NT's and the 8 FP. I just want to understand the main thrust of the Shards, I guess.

Similar yes, comparable, no. Given the fact that Buddhism was derived from these teachings, I woudl say they are strikingly similar, but with key differences. Given the source of the data, and some of the details, I cannot elaborate, however the structure and general "jist" of it is quite similar. The message in the end being identical, but the methodology and knowledge within each of the teachings drastically dissimilar.

J: This is interesting, non-negotiation.

Given I have expressed my opinion, I will not further "beat" this one into the ground.

My guys have been having success with re-education and rehabilitation. It has opened up the possibility of slowly (ever so slowly) healing old wounds of various sorts and returning even criminals back to some level of positive behavior and viability.

I thought I'd share that with you to brighten your day a bit, Maban. It costs, but I think over time and as the idea becomes fashionable that there is some potential there. However, daily, I am reminded of the difficulties and sacrifice involved, so I understand your Shard's position on this subject.

The problem with criminal (I am assuming that this is what you mean by rehabilitation) is that they do not "devoutly believe" that what they are doing is for the greater good of humanity." These individuals have taken an extremely dark spin on this "ideal" and cannot be stopped without all due force.

J: So the Remnants have a social difficulty with cooperation. Is this a good recap? With a difficulty with cooperation, have you found that Remnants tend to have a short lifespan as a group?

The more powerful and deceptive survive, the weak perish. So in effect we end up fighting the worst of the worst; naturally.

I am getting the impression that you perceive the Remnants as being Dark (ie. the opposite to Light). Is the differences mainly based on personality, or tradition, or Lightness (ie. dark vs. light vs. chaotic), or what?

Simply, they have become that which they used to fight; that which they vowed to stand against. They have become the ultimate evil that they swore to defeat, and protect against. For the longest time we looked to the outside for threats, but it was not until the Bavarian Siege that we fully realized the the greatest threats lied from within. They are dark by all accounts, as our teachings have taught us.

- Maban

I think the disconnect here is between literal and metaphorical.

For some belief systems, the pursuit of light is a metaphorical one. Battles for the mind and soul take place at a spiritual, emotional and visceral level. Learning philosophies and studying history fulfill these needs and answer some questions but leave more.

This is the quest of the self. How can *I* become enlightened? How can *my* soul experience truth, love, immortality?

Many, many groups and philosophies explore these issues and sometimes provide solace to the seeker. Some even accidentally contribute to literal illumination by teaching how to act outside of ego, or self.

At the same time there is a very literal, very concrete battle being waged not at the *self* level but at a 'macro' level that quite literally could destroy collective human existence.

Self study and palliative care of a few of your neighbors or families are honorable, but the very real determination of your ultimate infinite fate rests in the ability of mankind to come together as a whole to defeat evil. To end suffering. To prove ourselves worthy of surviving.

Maban's group is not only struggling to keep the human race from self-destructing but also waging a horrific invisible war against those who seek to control humanity and mislead us into a less-than-savory society that preys upon the least in the society.

Beware of men selling salvation.

JoantheBlind:
To be honest, I believe that this watering down is actually a good thing. The mysteries are a bit intimidating to me, and I think that mankind is not meant to understand too much.

Maban:
Just because we cannot understand it doesn't mean we should not try. I just hold to the idea that staring into the void for too long is a bad thing. Stare too long and your mind will enter but never leave. I have seen that trait here especially pronounced on ATS.

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Hi there - Maban, would you mind explaining more about your comment that staring into the void too long is a bad thing - stare too long and your mind will enter but never leave - seen that trait here esp. on ATS?

Is there a ratio of men to women or is it (as my first thought) all male? Does it make any difference what gender we're in for this?

Thank you for your time - K.

reply to post by kshaund

Originally posted by kshaund
Hi there - Maban, would you mind explaining more about your comment that staring into the void too long is a bad thing - stare too long and your mind will enter but never leave - seen that trait here esp. on ATS?

Is there a ratio of men to women or is it (as my first thought) all male? Does it make any difference what gender we're in for this?

Gender is irrelevant, all that matters is the core fundamental functions of the mind. Anyone who seeks the unobtainable for too long is compelled into making their own explanations out of nothingness, rather then actually finding the answers they sought. Simply put, if you are perpetually enveloped in mind altering/reality altering information every day, a person's reality can distort and fragment so badly; truth, the real world, and life all seem to become a part of a delusional reality, one in which the real world and the fantasy world compound in a sort of hallucinogenic state. A state where paranoia reigns, and fantastic explanations and forces shape all around them like a chaotic whirlwind, discarding all their senses behind them.

- Maban

[edit on 25-1-2009 by Maban]

Maban,

I think it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on
NAU (North American Union). How far are we in?

In prior replies you mentioned several points, including
a possible FIR; this made me believe that we are very close.
NAU first, and NWO in our lifetime? Was G. Orwell conceptually correct?
Thank you.

reply to post by eventHorizon

Originally posted by eventHorizon
I think it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on
NAU (North American Union). How far are we in?

A ways away, but something with which great force is being pushed behind. I would say tentatively it is probably at a minimum a decade off, more likely twenty to thirty years before it really is close to implementable. Furthermore, unless the current president uses it as a way to fix our economy, he will further postpone any such installment, if not virtually indefinably. Even I am amused with his red lining from acts and agreements of old, which are readily traveling out the window in the storm of change descending upon the USG. President Obama will prove to be a fore to be reckoned with or taken lightly. Unlike many presidents of old, he is less for glitz and glamor, less for pomp and circumstance, and less for politics, he is a man who does not talk, but does; despite his eloquent speeches.

In prior replies you mentioned several points, including
a possible FIR; this made me believe that we are very close.
NAU first, and NWO in our lifetime? Was G. Orwell conceptually correct?

I believe I did use the acronym FIR, but I am unsure of what you mean, by it. To me ,it means a "Field Incident Report." A Report filed within our mainframes when something of interest appears or occurs.

G. Orwell was certainly ahead of his times, a visionary of what was yet t come. But the NWO short of major mind altering global events, is still at least fifty years off or so. Too much "awakening" was created by this financial turmoil to move hastily now. Ironically JWB put a bit of a crimp in the plans of the Bilderburgs/NIA/Remnants causing too many, to start to question global events and trends, too early. You could actually say that Bush's actions helped humanity in a a way; history is not without a twist sadistic irony.

- Maban

This does not sound good.

Iceland's Government Collapses

AP Story

And surely THIS is not coincidence:

DAVOS

[edit on 1/26/09 by emsed1]

reply to post by emsed1


In the land of power and wealth, there exist few "coincidences."

- Maban

reply to post by Maban

Maban,

..ironically JWB put a bit of a crimp in the plans of the Bilderburgs/NIA/Remnants causing too many, to start to question global events and trends, too early.

So far from reading your replies to readers on this thread, I would
imagine that Shards would oppose/prevent NAU progression. Correct?
I could potentially force myself to see benefits of such a plan however
(and this is where my line gets drawn) - the risk of ending up within a
globalized prison is far too high to allow elitists have this kind (this scale)
of control.

And another completely (well, not really) different subject - use of
ELF / EMF for mind control. There is an amazing thread on ATS on
the subject that gets unfairly repeatedly neglected:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wonder if you have came across same or similar information before.
Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you.