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Shards of the Illuminati

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posted on Dec, 27 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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It is good to see you back, Maban! You've been missed...
Your Saudi loan knowledge was spot on. Bravo.

Do you mind me asking 2 questions?

1 - Why does FDA come up, consistently so, with such
un-human policies towards own citizens it's supposed to
protect, and likely international as well, as there are
plans to expand their 'responbilities'. Please share you
knowledge on the matter if any. Any take on GMO?

2 - There is a rise in global level of consciousness and
144000 could somehow be related - not sure what
exactly it means. But could you kindly clarify on the
notion of higher frequencies generated by humans?
Does it refer only to us better understanding of our
own being and place? Or is it more, much more, here,
almost unbelievably more, touching on time, reality
and space manipulation? Again - your feedback is very
much appreciated.

Thank you, my friend!




posted on Dec, 28 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by eventHorizon
 


Originally posted by eventHorizon
1 - Why does FDA come up, consistently so, with such
un-human policies towards own citizens it's supposed to
protect, and likely international as well, as there are
plans to expand their 'responsibilities'.


I honestly have not spent much time studying nor investigating the FDA. My personal opinion is that of either bureaucracy or incompetency rising through the ranks, to the top. I think it no more complex than people setting regulations and expanding powers whom possess little to no knowledge concerning the matter beyond a short biased brief, or their own limited knowledge. I think them no different than the US Congress, whom pass judgment and law with little more than a glimpse of what is before them.

How else do pieces of legislature such as the Patriot Act get so frivolously and fervently passed? Regardless of corruption and any conspiracy, a majority of elected officials are either good or indifferent. In which case even if they do not wish to uphold justice and good, they do vie for reelection.

Therefore, it can be reasonably deduced such individuals would feign away from implicating actions such as affiliation with "immoral" or "unethical movements; like stripping citizens of their rights, or imposing inhumane regulations. A majority of elected officials are "kept in the dark;" not out of nefariousness but out of ignorance. Too many lack foresight for the consequences of their own actions, and avoid accountability at all cost. As a result their inadequacies and incompetents breed confusion and blur the otherwise obvious effects of such said actions.


Please share you knowledge on the matter if any. Any take on GMO?


Genetically Modified Organisms are not necessarily good nor bad, but as any technology neutral, until its power falls in the hands of its wielder. GMO's have great potential for good, and great potential for, "misuse." It truly depends whom uses it for what purposes, and to what end.


2 - There is a rise in global level of consciousness and
144000 could somehow be related - not sure what
exactly it means. But could you kindly clarify on the
notion of higher frequencies generated by humans?
Does it refer only to us better understanding of our
own being and place? Or is it more, much more, here,
almost unbelievably more, touching on time, reality
and space manipulation? Again - your feedback is very
much appreciated.


I will U2U regarding this matter.

- Maban

[edit on 28-12-2008 by Maban]



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
Maban, good to see you back. I want to ask you about something. Do you believe that we are all one? Would you agree that the mandelbrot set shows us a clear understanding to what God really is? In this model called the mandelbrot set there are voids and areas of complete darkness, is this what you are talking about?



I'm not sure if this helps any, but I thought I would throw it in.

I work for a scientific software company and although I suck at math I do get to see some pretty cool stuff being created and discussed by our resident mathematicians and scientists.

From poking around it seems like the interest in the Mandelbrot set was generated because people started noticing that some of the properties of fractals appeared in nature.

It seems like that before 1975 when Benoit Mandelbrot published a book about fractals that nobody really paid attention. As computer processing power and graphics got better and better it seemed to become more and more interesting to scientists.

I am not sure precisely what it all means but a lot of folks here are starting to see a lot of similarities in fractals/mathematics and other subjects like biology, intelligence, philosophy etc. Some of the nerd-types are even opening up to the concept that it is mathematically possible (plausible even) that people aren't just some random gathering of atoms but maybe the result of some divine intelligence.

There are also some folks who have noticed similarities in the way fractals work to some concepts of Eastern philosophy. I really wish I understood more but once they get past the generalities and start scrawling equations I am lost.

I hope that helps a bit!



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


Yeah it does, thanks. I sort of would think of it as divine, it they represent the nature of life and consciouscness.



posted on Dec, 29 2008 @ 11:42 PM
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reply to post by Maban
 


This total selflessness that you suggest is required of mankind in order to attain a "Utopian" society and enlightenment sort of begs a question. If the Illuminati are the benevolent AND malevolent enlightened ones (that toy with the destiny or direction of mankind as if we were witless childeren) wouldn't this sacrifice fall first and foremost upon them? To lead by example by exposing the malevolent side that it may have justice dealt upon it for it's abuses of man.

Also, if need be show some of the afore mentioned selflessness by shining the same light upon the benevolent side to lend credence to the accusations leveled against the Remnants?

My point is simple. If the cause is so noble then it requires great sacrifice and galantry. If this is all true, how is mankind to have any faith or trust in your, "Shards" when you call for us to be selfless in order to attain this great society yet we see no great selflessness from your side.

It seems like more of the same old thing. Elites claim to have the answers and call on everyone but themselves to make sacrifices.

It may well be that both sides (if they exist) need to turn over mans destiny to it's rightful owners and restore the right of self-determination aver ALL aspects of our future.

On the other hand, I have seen that a great many things are possible in life and you have made mention of personal sacrifice by "taking darkness into yourself" (I'm not sure what you mean). By this I'm sure that even you realize that not all things can be fixed in a graceful manner. Sometimes you have to "get down in the dirt" if you will in order to win the fight. Some men simply want to see the world burn so in respose to your motto, "I will be as weak as possible, and as strong as I need be" I leave you with this and hope you take it to heart.

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."
or
"Si vis pacem, para bellum."
"If you want peace, prepare for war."



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:53 AM
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Sorry for the double post

[edit on 30-12-2008 by lazy1981]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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REPLY TO: emsed1


Always good to here from Illinoisan. If you don't mind me asking, were about are you from? As you can see I'm from Chicago. "Crook County"


I used to buy into the whole Masonic conspiracy deal but the more I learned about Freemasonry the less likely that seemed. I feel that the elites that are in the fraternity in most parts of the world are there due to tradition. As in England and such. As far as statesman go like in America (what little there are) is by sheer happenstance, or as I said before. Their morals pushed them into that direction.

In as much as Freemasonry sharing in the shedding of ego, materialism, and greed. I would have to agree, as does the majority ofthe world belief systems and religions (not that I'm calling Freemasonry either). I would caution you only to say that the "Illuminati" were all about the abolition of organized religion. Many of which Freemasony embraces.

I also feel that mankind will have to make "choices" in the future on a great many issues. I just feel that it is an issue best left to the world at large and not for a group of elites of select persons to decide. Self-determination is the only way, all else is folly.

I believe that no soul is beyond salvation. Is not the creator of all things merciful and just? I guess it would have to be as you say, "a choice" to turn from the "LIGHT" (as you say); however I can not follow the notion that the soul is destroyed. As you may well know, we are all made of energy. And one of the most basic principles in the universes is that energy can not be destroyed. It merely changes form. So sadley I must logicly follow the notion that either the soul reconciles itself to the ALMIGHTY or it spends eternity in darkness (as energy cannot be destroyed and the light and dark are not compatible).

This world and life that we lead may not be what was intended yet it is not a thing of sadness. When one removes himself from the petty troubles of the world there are a great many pleasures to partake in. Family, freinds, nature, spirituality, knowledge, and love. Yet with great pleasure life is also linked with some of the unsavory things that we all wish we didn't have to see or live through. As a Freemason you should know this by the meaning of the black and white checkered floors. The teachings of duality span the whole of human life, not just good and evil. You take the good with the bad. Enjoy the good and give thanks for it. Live through the bad, and learn from it when possible.

And yes, always "Love your neighbor". And do unto him as you would have him do unto you.

[edit on 30-12-2008 by lazy1981]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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reply to post by lazy1981
 


Good to hear from you, I am in Champaign County which is an interesting duality in itself. Half red, half blue. It's always an interesting mix.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 12:34 PM
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I came across this interview today. I wonder what our Illuminon friends might think of it:

www.nolanchart.com...

Some things ring true but some, to me anyway, sound like Remnant ideas.



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 04:54 PM
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Originally posted by emsed1
I am not sure precisely what it all means but a lot of folks here are starting to see a lot of similarities in fractals/mathematics and other subjects like biology, intelligence, philosophy etc. Some of the nerd-types are even opening up to the concept that it is mathematically possible (plausible even) that people aren't just some random gathering of atoms but maybe the result of some divine intelligence.



Nice post, but, and I hope this comes out the way in which it is intended, you are a Freemason are you not? Correct me if I am wrong, but I do see a compass and square in your avatar? Doesn't Freemasonry guide you towards learning about those instruments? If so, you surely do understand a little better than that reply would suggest.



[edit on 30-12-2008 by KilgoreTrout]



posted on Dec, 30 2008 @ 11:44 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


Close to The University of Illinois at Urbana. Party, party, party!


Being in an area that has such political contrast can be a good thing. See either side can't have it's way and this allows for little to get done easily. They must come to a middle ground in order to move any legislation and that stops the sort of unilateral politics that goes on in Chicago. And in Washington when one group controls it all.

Balance is good.



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 12:24 AM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


Does sound alot like Maban's post in many ways. Good article for this thread. I think she could have asked a few better questions though. She had the kids gloves on.

[edit on 31-12-2008 by lazy1981]



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 03:21 AM
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reply to post by lazy1981

Originally posted by lazy1981
 
This total selflessness that you suggest is required of mankind in order to attain a "Utopian" society and enlightenment sort of begs a question. If the Illuminati are the benevolent AND malevolent enlightened ones (that toy with the destiny or direction of mankind as if we were witless children) wouldn't this sacrifice fall first and foremost upon them?


You are using a contradiction of terms, allow me to clarify. Firstly, you cannot be malevolent, and enlightened; its like standing while sitting. You are either a benevolent Enlightened individual, or a malevolent unenlightened individual. For further clarification "we" Illuminons do not consider ourselves "Enlightened," we have not crossed the threshold of Enlightened yet. We are however indeed "Illuminated," individuals seeking Enlightenment, seeking the luminous path.

Secondly,


(that toy with the destiny or direction of mankind as if we were witless children)


I think not, it takes a great deal of precision and discretion to conceal ourselves from the public, "witless," humanity is not. In addition, we woudl never condone nor commit such an act. We are merely guides; stewards. We do not "lead" as you assume. We consider ourselves "guides," we present the path and show the way, but it is the individual which must choose the path, and it is up to the individual to walk that path; we do not force any such decision or action. It is true we obviously encourage the illuminated path, as would any elder advocate for the "right" way. But, it is not within our right to predetermine a person's path, that is at their own discretion and will.

Thirdly, the sacrifice of global selfishness falls upon all. Individuals seem to possess a strange notion that we live in elegant palaces or mansion, whilst we indulge in every pleasure and comfort. When in point of fact, they could be no more off base. A majority of my days are spent in far more lackluster places, like that of abandoned buildings, empty warehouses, and if we are lucky; vacant commercial spaces. Our homes are ordinary, if not outdated. We are much like the "ordinary" middle class. Our influence derives from our numbers and combined monetary influence. Apart, we are quite "normal" upon first glance, whereas together, beneath the surface, we can accomplish great good.

You seem to have this predilection that we attempt to "control" and "coerce" the populous en mass, when this is simply not the case. We are like the guardrails on the road of life, we are here to prevent humanity en whole from faltering, from plunging off an irredeemable edifice. But you are responsible for your own actions, and can still be greatly injured upon the road of life, and never come close to the guardrails.

We do not influence nor control the actions of the few, or the individual. The individual possesses the inerrant right and will to self determination, self success, and self failure. We however, will not allow humanity to fail. If that is "overly controlling" in your eyes, then you have my sincerest regrets. However, we think that sort of thinking to be both dangerous and self defeating. If anything, life shows us that Guardians must stand watch over the most precious of things; because they are fragile and irreplaceable.


To lead by example by exposing the malevolent side that it may have justice dealt upon it for it's abuses of man


I would compare the Remnants akin to a wild animal. If you corner it, shine a spot light upon it, or directly attack it; the full force of its fury and wrath will be brought to bare against all whom it perceives as a threat, to its existence. That said, in doing what you so suggested would not only place countless innocent lives at risk, but so too the future of humanity.

However, if we silently stalk the predator, and encircle it slowly, we are able to effectively mount a campaign against it; disabling and dismantling it until we can move in for the final act of disbanding it forever. "Tactics" prevent collateral damage, a full frontal attack is unpredictable and dangerous for all involved.


Also, if need be show some of the afore mentioned selflessness by shining the same light upon the benevolent side to lend credence to the accusations leveled against the Remnants?


We have nothing to prove, and nothing to show. Our presence was designed to be a silent and unseen one upon its original conception. Only in recent years have we seen the benefit it can do for individuals to simply possess the knowledge that we are indeed combating such forces, and that all is not lost. I provide reassurance and advice, nothing more. Such information, which too should be taken with a grain of salt.


My point is simple. If the cause is so noble then it requires great sacrifice and galantry. If this is all true, how is mankind to have any faith or trust in your, "Shards" when you call for us to be selfless in order to attain this great society yet we see no great selflessness from your side.


You see none, because our actions remain concealed. Ask yourself; would Clark Kent wish to take credit for his actions; or merely help those whom he can and continue doing so unhindered? Our duties would become so encumber-some and so laborious if what we fully did was made public. We woudl loose all effectiveness and be unable to uphold our duties. By in so doing, we would cease to be whom we are because we would be unable to fulfill our purpose, or reason for being. It would be akin to Superman revealing whom he truly was, while simultaneously placing all whom he cared for in imminent danger.


It seems like more of the same old thing. Elites claim to have the answers and call on everyone but themselves to make sacrifices.


Concealing whom you truly are from family, friends, and loved ones; having to avoid the truth, and occasionally lie to protect the cause. Forfeiting any self determined goals or dreams for the greater good, and even love itself. If these are not sacrifices I do not know what is. Many point to the Illuminons with discontent and venomous accusations. I point to all in longing and discomfort, knowing I will never have what so many take for granted each day.

>> Continued

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Maban]



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 03:32 AM
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It may well be that both sides (if they exist) need to turn over mans destiny to it's rightful owners and restore the right of self-determination aver ALL aspects of our future.


And each time that idea is attempted, each time the High Council has thought it time, we have had to pull humanity back from the brink of self annihilation. We have conceded that humanity is simply not mature nor wise enough to fully, autonomously govern itself. Each time we let loose the reins of governments they vie to hate and destroy one another. It is not until such time as "humanity," rises above and beyond any vestigial forms of umbrella regulations and control, to a state of total self governance, that humanity will finally possess what is required of itself, to travel the winding road without guard rails. Because only then, are you "truly free," and only then it becomes all too real, and there are no do-overs. So woudl you not agree that erring on the side of caution is best, at least until humanity possess a decent chance at success?


On the other hand, I have seen that a great many things are possible in life and you have made mention of personal sacrifice by "taking darkness into yourself" (I'm not sure what you mean).


It means sacrificing what you believe in, what you hold most dear; so you are more enabled to help others and prevent disaster. A self sacrifice for the greater good.


By this I'm sure that even you realize that not all things can be fixed in a graceful manner. Sometimes you have to "get down in the dirt" if you will in order to win the fight.


As that last passage just stated. To fight in the ways of your enemy, is to "take a part of the darkness into yourself." To liken yourself to your enemy, in order to defeat them, is in part becoming that which you fight; a fundamental contradiction, but a necessary tactic for beings which do not possess godlike abilities.



Some men simply want to see the world burn so in response to your motto, "I will be as weak as possible, and as strong as I need be" I leave you with this and hope you take it to heart.

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum."
or
"Si vis pacem, para bellum."
"If you want peace, prepare for war."


That is well understood, but war should be of last resorts, and saved for the darkest and most irredeemable of enemies. You cannot simply "bludgeon" your way towards peace. An equivalent analogy woudl be "screwing one's way to virginity." Simply put; some paths once traveled, cannot be reversed. So they must be chosen wisely, and painstakingly, for far too much hangs in the balance, for us to afford to be wrong... even once.

- Maban

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Maban]



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 03:36 AM
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reply to post by lazy1981
 


Originally posted by lazy1981
REPLY TO: emsed1

I believe that no soul is beyond salvation. Is not the creator of all things merciful and just? I guess it would have to be as you say, "a choice" to turn from the "LIGHT" (as you say); however I can not follow the notion that the soul is destroyed. As you may well know, we are all made of energy. And one of the most basic principles in the universes is that energy can not be destroyed. It merely changes form. So sadly I must logically follow the notion that either the soul reconciles itself to the ALMIGHTY or it spends eternity in darkness (as energy cannot be destroyed and the light and dark are not compatible).


Some souls are indeed beyond salvation, this is what is wildly referred to as "the heart evil." Repenting, or asking of forgiveness is folly. Once carries their deeds for all eternity, both good and ill. The question which remains if their good deeds outweighed their bad. Thus,some souls are indifferent gray. Some sous are illuminated or light, and some are dark, or devoid/extinguished.

- Maban



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 04:15 AM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


"Neocheaters," good find! I have not heard that term for quite some time. Indeed given the verbiage he used, specifically "neocheaters" I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is in point of fact a Remnant supporter. Some of his equivocations which left room for interpretations and subtle meaning also reinforce my assessment.

Do not misunderstand me, a majority of this is true about both the Shards and the Remnants, but the clever mixing of truth and fallacy makes it all the more intriguing and convincing. They excel at blurring the lines so friend becomes almost indistinguishable from foe.


Because they cheat others via mysticism to garner unearned values. And that is the definition of neocheating. It's a newly identified form of cheating, discovered only a few decades ago, by an honest illuminati. A neocheater appears to be a benefactor or a friend, but drains or harms or kills others.


Ironically, this almost perfectly describes a Remnant personality.


EG - So being an illuminati doesn't automatically guarantee one is leading a moral life?

NP - That's a good question. Not necessarily. Those five tenets don't cover ethics: they don't tell you what is good or evil, or even if there is such a thing as good or evil.


This is blatantly wrong, our by-laws strictly enforce Illuminon-Human interactions, insuring that we uphold our purpose while upholding the highest/most illuminated ideals. WE also do not possess nor recognize the "Five Tenants, "The Five Precepts," or the "Five Phases," as they are referred to.


EG - So is the final battle you mentioned - between the honest and dishonest illuminati - really a battle between American illuminati and the European illuminati?

NP - Very observant. As America is the only country on earth founded on the enlightenment principles of individual rights, you could properly guess that would be the case.

EG - But is that the case?

NP - Spiritually? Yes. But geographically, no. In today's era of global travel and finance, the most powerful illuminati are using the entire world as their chessboard, not merely the American and European continents.

EG - You're saying that all honest illuminati are spiritually aligned to the American ideals of individualism, and that the dishonest ones are aligned to the ideals of the old European feudal system?

NP - Very observant.


Notice how his answers are counterproductive in initial response and eventual elaboration, yet he doesn't "actually"answer the proposed question, but instead circumvents it, revealing and actually stating nothing. Such inconsistencies point to blatant subterfuge tactics.


EG - So the NWO conspiracy boobs that run around fearful about an illuminati enslaving the human race, they are correct, or not?

NP - The honest illuminati are using that as one tool in the chess match to dismantle the neocheating illuminati power structures.


And admission of their perpetuation of "their" NWO, whilst we condone and abhor it. After all it was our initial concept of a unified world, an idea which they mutilated into their bastardized NWO.


EG - So you're saying that the NWO will be the result of the battle between the honest and dishonest illuminati, and that it could end bad or good for the common person.

NP - Precisely. Our chess match is literally a game of life or death. The enlightenment versus the dark ages. If the good guys lose, then life on earth will turn very bad for a great many people, and billions will be killed.

EG - But if the good guys win?

NP - It will be an amazing day on earth, because very quickly every liberated country on earth would be refounded on the enlightenment principle of individual rights.


"Life or death," truth. "Billions will be killed," Fear mongering; naturally. Where is the part that it is ultimately up to humanity; not the Illuminati? There are far more "humans" then there are Illuminati on either side.


EG - What about over population and environmental pollution?

NP - Those are the mystical tools the dishonest illuminati are using against us, to manipulate the population against us. We've solved pollution problems, the overpopulation myth isn't a real issue at this time.


So every scientist on the face of the planet is working for us? I wish. Were that the case we woudl have already outsmarted, and dismantled them.


EG - So, I'm afraid, but excited, to ask: Is 2008 the beginning of the final battle between the honest and dishonest illuminati? In other words, is the final battle going to take place in a global economic fashion, rather than a global warring one?

NP - Wars always begin with economics. You are correct that this year is the beginning of the end of one side or the other. Either the honest illuminati will win, or the dishonest illuminati will win.


A warning that the Icelandic High Council did not take seriously enough. Even we are still reeling from its effects, but have our own counteroffensive planned synonymous with galvanizing events.

Again, interesting find, good find!

- Maban



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 04:46 AM
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Good morning, Maban. I was wondering if you had an opinion on this fellow's claims?

[edit on 31-12-2008 by Cadbury]



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 05:00 AM
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Something I've always wanted to know, how are members selected for the Illuminati? Are you "approached" or is there a recruitment process (I'm not trying to be factitious)

A very interesting thread; it's obvious the OP is not hoax - too many coincidences.



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 05:25 AM
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Originally posted by KilgoreTrout


Nice post, but, and I hope this comes out the way in which it is intended, you are a Freemason are you not? Correct me if I am wrong, but I do see a compass and square in your avatar? Doesn't Freemasonry guide you towards learning about those instruments? If so, you surely do understand a little better than that reply would suggest.



[edit on 30-12-2008 by KilgoreTrout]


I think I have a grasp on some of the concepts and have some pretty strong personal beliefs as well.

I just wanted to share a sort of open view of things without tainting it too much with my beliefs.

As for myself I do believe there is a Supreme guiding intelligence in the universe (or universes). I think a lot of the resistance by scientists to the idea of 'God' was derived out of a strict belief in only what could be measured and observed.

Within our lifetimes I think the scientific community will probably come out with at least a hypothesis about the existence of God as suggested by quantum physics, superstring theory, etc.



posted on Dec, 31 2008 @ 09:14 AM
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Originally posted by emsed1

I think I have a grasp on some of the concepts and have some pretty strong personal beliefs as well.

I just wanted to share a sort of open view of things without tainting it too much with my beliefs.


I wasn't being in anyway critical of your post, it in fact set my mind in motion and kept me awake that night with it's busy-ness.

What I meant was the information that the instruments hold, the very basic, fundementally, unquestionable information that they hold, not how you choose to interpret that information. Beliefs have nothing to do with this, though that you think that they do is highly interesting in itself.

It is that knowledge or information that was painstakingly maintained and preserved through crumbling empire after empire, and it is that information that we in the 'western' world have had to most painstakingly preserve over the reign of latinisation. These are the very secrets from which Freemasonry first came about. These secrets did entail life and death to maintain them. Heresy is no laughing matter. An operative stonemason in the employ of the church knew only too well what penalties would befall him or her, should they share those secrets outside of their craft.


Originally posted by emsed1
Within our lifetimes I think the scientific community will probably come out with at least a hypothesis about the existence of God as suggested by quantum physics, superstring theory, etc.


There are already ample hypothese about the existence of 'god', it doesn't really hold that much importance to me whether a new definition is arrived at, I am happily agnostic in that respect. All any individual or group of scientists can do is offer their opinion, unless they have definitive proof, there are more than enough opinions conflicting with each other as it is. In my opinion.

What we do have now though, is a body of knowledge that tells us that the universe operates under certain constraints, that it follows certain patterns, that everything in this universe is derived from the same composite parts and that the universe speaks a language that is, obviously, universal and can be understood, and given that, we as integral parts of that universe, reflect that, and can use that language to communicate with the universe because of this common language and because we are a part of it.

The knowledge that this language exists goes back to Babylon, Egypt, Greece etc etc, though in the west, it was not 'discovered' until the enlightenment. Records of this knowledge in the west have been painstakingly destroyed, generation after generation. And yet, it was re-discovered time and time again.

When the eastern hemisphere was opened up, we found that knowledge there too, slightly better preserved, but by then it was public knowledge in the west so the east gained no due credit for predating us. The journey of the master builder, the carrying of the set-square and compass permitted our rediscovery of mathematics and also allowed our leaders to emulate god and fill us with wonder at the buildings these leaders created.

As I was being kept awake by your post I had a realisation, a small one, but a good one all the same. At York Minster, a stone masons lodge was discovered during restoration work. It can only be accessed via the Chapter House (where the administrative and lay members of the cathedral would meet). In fact the door is behind the door into the Chapter House, the door has to be closed to even see that a door is behind there. I had at first thought that this would mean that the Masons were perhaps a part of the Chapter, but I wonder if in fact they were kept sequestered from the 'community', imprisoned to an extent. It actually makes better sense now that I think about it.



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