Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

page: 4
70
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join

posted on May, 5 2008 @ 09:12 PM
link   

Originally posted by slackerwire

Originally posted by Unit541

Originally posted by slackerwire
Interesting to note that the original poster calls Blackwater "right wing", while relying on a book full of untruths written by a known leftist as a source for his "information".


Could you perhaps point out some of these "untruths"?


Well first of all, they aren't mercenaries. They are security contractors.

Just like calling scary looking guns "assault weapons", the term is simply untrue, but is used to paint them in a bad light.

Secondly, Scahill is a known leftist, who has an anti-war agenda from the get go. Anything he can twist or distort to make a PMC look bad he will.

As he states in that video, he claims to have seen BW contractors in New Orleans armed with "M4 machine guns". Really? Did he personally go up and check to make sure there was a selector switch on that rifle? Of course he didnt. The boy probably couldnt tell a machine gun from a squirt gun. He ASSUMED, and in error I might add.

BW had standard semi-auto M4 carbines, just like the ones you and I can go buy at the local gun shop. This comes from personal experience.

He also neglected to add that BW contractors were employed by wealthy people in NO. They were there protecting private property at the behest of the property owner. There was even a stand off between corrupt NOPD officers who were looking to LOOT peoples houses since they knew they occupants had left.

Need I go on?


You know the term "security contractors" or "private military company" is just a way of making a pile of dog poop look pretty with a ribbon and bow. A mercenary is a mercenary is a mercenary. Just like war-profiteering is war profiteering is war-profiteering. Which is supposed to be illegal by the way, the war-profiteering.

If you've supposedly got experience in this then isn't your view skewed towards the perspective of defending these people at Blackwater or elsewhere? Can you be neutral about what you see? Believe it or not I am being as neutral as possible with these posts because I could find plenty of stuff to slant this even further to the "left-wing" side if I so chose to but I don't because I know there's a balance somewhere in the middle.

Believe it or not I used to be an extreme right-wing religious person. I used to tell people they were going to go to Hell when they tried to offer Me drugs and didn't understand why I chose not to "go with the flow" and follow the crowd. As for not knowing about mercenaries, I mentioned in a different post that I actually worked with one, not in the context of mercenary work, mind you, but in a different context. I'm not going to mention the context because it's just not important.

The stories I heard from him about how he liked the Taliban and some of the simply unethical stuff he'd brag about that I'm not mentioning here was ridicoulous. I don't believe in drugs, no matter what I say online, over the phone, or in person about My knowledge about drugs, it is because of My disdain for having it near Me and because of My ability to utilize the God given common sense along with detective skills I learned along the way to ask questions, that lead to questions, that lead to the answer I want. A lot of the War on Terror in Afghanistan, Pakistan, and any other Stan is being funded by drug-smuggling through different avenues.




posted on May, 5 2008 @ 09:55 PM
link   
Just thought I'd throw this YouTube video in here to mix it up. It's from the movie Shooter.

YouTube : Shooter



Editorial Review on Amazon :


A movie that would not have been out of place in the run of paranoid-political thrillers of the 1970s, Shooter works an entertaining variation on the assassination picture. Mark Wahlberg, carrying over good mojo from The Departed, slides neatly into the character of Bob Lee Swagger, master marksman.

Swagger has retreated from his duty as an off-the-books hired gun for the military, having become disillusioned with his government (switching on his TV at his remote mountain cabin, he mutters, "Let's see what kind of lies they're trying to sell us today.").

Ah, but the government needs Swagger to scope out the location of a rumored attempt on the life of the president, so a shadowy government operative (Danny Glover) begs Swagger to use his sniper's skills to out-fox the assassin. From there--well, spoilers are not fair, since the movie has a few legitimate shocks and a very nice wrong-man scenario about to unfold.



A novel by the Washington Post's Pulitzer Prize-winning film critic Stephen Hunter gives the movie a logical spine, even if the premise itself is the stuff of conspiracy theorists. Wahlberg gets support from Michael Pena, as a skeptical FBI agent; Kate Mara, as a trustworthy widow; and Ned Beatty, trailing along memories of Network, as a supremely cynical Senator.

Along with the well-executed action sequences (the previously unreliable director Antoine Fuqua gets it in gear here), the movie includes a few potshots at the Bush administration. No, that doesn't put Shooter at the level of The Parallax View or All the President's Men, but it provides some tang along with the flying bullets. --Robert Horton


This is an example of the corrupt political events that go on, on a daily basis where the politicians think they are above the law. By the way, if you've seen the movie, the part where the Colonel played by Danny Glover bringing in 24 "shooter's" is where he is bringing in mercenaries to kill "Bob Lee Swagger" and Mark Wahlberg's character would have been the "patsy" kind of like Lee Harvey Oswald.

Just for everyone's reference, no, I do not believe the official version that LHO shot JFK. The Warren Commission was where everyone covered their collective butts and where the cover-up stopped all the correct information from getting out to the public. I'm not stating I think here either, I'm stating I know. This is one of those things I've been investigating My whole life, read every single book, watched all the movies, and heard all the theories on.

To answer the question I know will be coming from that JFK bit there, it was all of the above. Everyone wanted a piece of JFK and RFK and MLK. They made too many deals and intended to double-cross everyone who assisted them politically and that had to be stopped by those people who were commiting the crimes.

[edit on 5-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 12:39 AM
link   
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I think one will run into real problems in applying Military Discipline to civilians.. Regardless of their jobs...

There are presently plenty of civilian statutes that cover any actions such a group may undertake within the boundaries of the United States and I say let International Law handle any International incidents...

These groups and their emerging power structure have real potential for trouble if not in the very near future, then down the road a bit. Our legislature needs to act to curtail and restrict their application especially with the United States. If not, I can easily see a "round about" circumvention of Posse Comitatus...

When that happens folks, look out is the only advice I can give you...

Semper



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 12:45 AM
link   
reply to post by semperfortis
 



Posse Comitatus


This is dead already.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 08:15 AM
link   
reply to post by slackerwire
 


I dont think there needs to be a private army plain and simple as that. They want to set up bases or (training facilities) as they call it and I think you are asking for trouble. Im sure your typical soldier who works for BW have no clue what its real intentions could be. The government in my eyes only has a few jobs it should be doing and our security is one of them. It gives them that task in the constitution. It doesnt say in the constitution that we will raise a private army for our defense. I dont know where you get leftist at Im just a guy looking out for your freedoms.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 09:14 AM
link   
I went reading about "Posse Comitatus" since someone brought it up. I went to Wikipedia and found the original translation of the text.

Wikipedia : Posse Comitatus

Here's the original text as it was stated as a Federal Law when it was passed in 1878, shortly after the Civil War, having to do with the Reconstruction Period dealing with the re-entry of the Confederate States into the Union in the United States of America after their secesssion. The Civil War for those who are unfamiliar with it was because of the Southern states expressing the belief that they had the right to secede, or leave the union of these United States. Racial or ethnicity or ownership of a person of any race had no direct relation to the Civil War.


Posse Comitatus (Latin): Power of the county. The whole force of the county - that is, all the male members of a county over fifteen, who may be summoned by a sheriff to assist in preventing a riot, the rescue of prisoners, or other unlawful disorders. Clergymen, peers, and the infirm are exempt.


Later on Posse Comitatus was enhanced to include the Air Force and National Guard.


The Posse Comitatus Act is a United States federal law (18 U.S.C. § 1385) passed on June 16, 1878 after the end of Reconstruction. The Act prohibits most members of the federal uniformed services (the Army, Air Force, and State National Guard forces when such are called into federal service) from exercising nominally state law enforcement police or peace officer powers that maintain "law and order" on non-federal property (states, their counties and municipal divisions) in the former Confederate states.


I've read a lot on Posse Comitatus through this source and it is one of those slippery slopes as far as laws go because it has been revised many times in order to include military organizations that were not even in existence during the time of the original drafting. I am not a law professor so going on information based on what I've said here is at best naive on your part but these are some of the parts of the law I understand and at that not in the entirety, meaning this is an incomplete meaning of that law.

Blackwater however, along with DynCorp, Triple Canopy, and any other "Private Security Company", or "Security Force", or group of mercenaries formed into any semblance of a unit to protect that is hired by the Federal government of the United States of America as a "private contractor" is a direct subversion of actual law protecting U.S. citizens from illegal action by the Federal government. What's unique about this law now however is that under Homeland Security under the broad and sweeping definition of the word "terrorist" is a person who practices terrorism is a terrorist.

Under Wikipedia I found the word "terrorist" having been studied by the U.S.Army in 1988 to have over 100 meanings.

Wikipedia : "Terrorist"

My personal definition and interpretation of the word "terrorist" is as follows here :

A person who through action, physical force, intimidation, intent, or implied wording that means to induce a state of fear upon an individual or a group of individual persons into a state of submission and or other action contrary to survival of said person is a "terrorist."

Of course this is My interpretation of the word and I'll further define it for you here of the meaning I use.

Person : Any individual human being, animal, and or alien entity.

Action : Movement and or implied movement.

Physical Force : Applied activity to cause bodily injury.

Intimidation : A force through word, action, or implied meaning.

Intent : Planning and or desire to perform an act.

Implied Meaning : Direct or indirect implication of intent.

Fear : To be afraid and or not understand thereby causing to cower.

Submission : To submit, or give over power.

Survival : To stop the act of living in the human physical form, and or mental state of well being.

That is of course My definition and we all know exactly what that means is that this is My meaning behind the word "terrorist" and no other persons unless you so choose to believe the way I do of your own free will.

I can remember the first time I felt fear was at the age of six/seven when I had a knife put to My body to be terrorized by a bully. My second time of feeling fear was that of the understanding that a governing body of human beings had complete power to cause Me physical harm or mental harm or take away my phyical and or mental freedoms and or end My life for any reason through their interpretation and comprehension of law that desired to do so.

This governing body of humans (any being{s}) I am talking about here is of course the government of any country throughout the Earth (or other planet, if humans leave Earth). I understood at the age of seven that a government can do whatever it wants to an individual person if they consider a person guilty of a crime, assume guilt of said crime, or were to change the facts of a crime to place that person into the light of guilt.

That all of course is still My interpretation and understanding of the word "terror."

Essentially said I see that any group of humans that intends to cause My life functions to cease is in fact a "terrorist." Life functions would be to Me any form of living safely without fear and or to be physically or mentally to be alive.

In other words anyone, who is to feel or think they have right to cause Me to die through any means through their action instantly becomes a terrorist. Interpret what you want from My meaning there, but that is My definition and I do not ask anyone to share My belief system as it is a complex and continually increasing comprehension of beliefs.

By My definition though, if Blackwater employees specifically were to try to cause Me harm or the belief of harm, I will interpret that as an act of terror, and shall act accordingly in order to cause that action to have difficulty to be rendered.

I believe personally in passive counter-terrorism which is to Me passive-resistance or passive-aggressive behavior through comprehension of intelligent use of understanding along with action or inaction to ensure My own physical and or mental survival.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 09:49 AM
link   

Originally posted by slackerwire
Well first of all, they aren't mercenaries. They are security contractors.

They've been hired to fight a war. By definition, they are mercenaries.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Just like calling scary looking guns "assault weapons", the term is simply untrue, but is used to paint them in a bad light.

You are simply wrong here. The weapons they carry are in fact "assault weapons" (yes, the M4 is an assault rifle).


Originally posted by slackerwire
Secondly, Scahill is a known leftist, who has an anti-war agenda from the get go. Anything he can twist or distort to make a PMC look bad he will.

So what? 90% of the population of this country has an anti-war agenda.


Originally posted by slackerwire
As he states in that video, he claims to have seen BW contractors in New Orleans armed with "M4 machine guns". Really? Did he personally go up and check to make sure there was a selector switch on that rifle? Of course he didnt. The boy probably couldnt tell a machine gun from a squirt gun. He ASSUMED, and in error I might add.

Semantics. To the average joe, any firearm used in a military or paramilitary role is a "machine gun". You're reaching.


Originally posted by slackerwire
BW had standard semi-auto M4 carbines, just like the ones you and I can go buy at the local gun shop. This comes from personal experience.

Point? The M4 is an assault weapon, and they do intimidate civilians.


Originally posted by slackerwire
He also neglected to add that BW contractors were employed by wealthy people in NO. They were there protecting private property at the behest of the property owner. There was even a stand off between corrupt NOPD officers who were looking to LOOT peoples houses since they knew they occupants had left.

Where's the "untruth" in this? This is exactly what makes them "mercenaries". They fight for money, no matter what side of any confrontation hires them.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Need I go on?

Go on? You haven't even started. I asked for you to point out the "untruths" you claim the book is full of, and you haven't been able to uncover even one. C'mon now, are you really Tony Snow?



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 02:01 PM
link   
reply to post by Unit541
 



Unit541,

I have to say thanks for assistance in this thread with your comments.

I wrote this "Exterior Quote" while at work today when everything was done.


Counter-Terrorism to the world should not be about nationality or race but about the unity of all human beings on planet Earth to live without fear of harm or belief of harm by any individual(s) seen or unseen.

To utilize ingrained human instinct along with detective skills to comprehend where that fear is being directed from and is to understand and thereby counter that same said fear through passive counter-terrorism first, which should be defined here as a passive-aggressive state of constant surveillance with diligence through the use of intelligent tactics and investigation of any person(s) who causes harm through action, intent, or force against any other person(s) whether seen or unseen.

An act of terror can be defined by many different meanings through individual(s) seen or unseen who through nationality and or independant thought see that fear is being induced upon any other individual(s).

Coercion through the intent of mis-leading any individual(s) into a false sense of security should be interpreted to mean an individual(s) attempting to subversively undermine another individual(s) free-will therefore is thereby inducing fear through non-independant submission in order to act upon and potentially induce fear at a future time through co-dependant induced inactivity utilizing fear through the future tense of potential harm.


My sources for quote are within a lot of the books I've mentioned throughout this thread so far along with the rest of the books in My collection that I do not currently have time to add to this post.

Here's a YouTube video on "The Negotiator"



Here's another YouTube video on "The Negotiator"



These are examples of "active counter-terrorism" mixed with hostage negotiation.

I believe strongly in passive counter-terrorism which is to say watch, listen, and learn about the terrorist before they strike, and then move into active counter-terrorsim from there. Of course utilizing the best tactics availabe in order to not cause undue harm.

To Me fighting terrorism should not be about national boundaries but about the entire planet Earth, meaning there is no "us and them" but an all encompassing unified Earth, without war-profiteering, without power gain, without corruption of politicial power and position. To Me war is about the citizens and soldiers not about the war-mongering politicians who send those soldiers off to die and who leave those citizens with empty beds, empty homes, and empty hearts when those soldiers get killed through the manipulative lies and deceit in order to make money off of people's suffering through mass genocide on behalf of shuffling the continents around like chess pieces.

YouTube video of "3 Doors Down : Citizen Soldier" in support of the troops overseas.



You might wonder what any of this has to do with Blackwater and I have to say that I strongly support the soldiers sent to Iraq but not the President that sent them there. War-profiteering for oil and money while soldiers die needlessly is utter non-sense to Me in that everyone knows there's oil all throughout Texas and the Alaskan Pipeline.

YouTube video of "Mark Collie : In Time" in support of the troops overseas.



Why is that everyone in the world seems to have forgotten about the Alaskan Pipeline where there is oodles of oil for us to be using. If we were to open that reserve of oil we could crush the UAE, or United Arab Emirates death-grip on America's wallet.

YouTube video of the Alaskan Pipeline :



YouTube video on the movie "The Kingdom" :



The movie "The Kingdom" if you've seen it has in the beginning of it the explanation about the introduction of how the Middle East came to find their oil with the assistance the U.S. Government and the movie itself is supposed to have been inspired by actual events. You will have notice in the opening part of the movie explaining the relationship about the partnership between the U.S. Government and Saudi oil barons that this is a situation where the Middle East is in constant conflict and that the Saudi's do not like us in the least, because we within the United States are "The Infidel's."

[edit on 6-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 03:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

You know the term "security contractors" or "private military company" is just a way of making a pile of dog poop look pretty with a ribbon and bow. A mercenary is a mercenary is a mercenary. Just like war-profiteering is war profiteering is war-profiteering. Which is supposed to be illegal by the way, the war-profiteering.



Wrong. Mercs fight in WARS, they do not defend principles in the course of their dignitary protection details.

Want to see mercs in action? Check out Liberia, Congo, and the other assorted civil conflicts taking place throughout Africa.

Tell me, when BW contractors are protecting Hamid Karzai, how are they acting as a mercenary in any capacity?

The DSS (Diplomatic Security Service) works very closely with BW, both in the field, and in training. Considering BW is tasked with the same set of roles, would you also consider the DSS a merc group?



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 04:00 PM
link   

Originally posted by Unit541
They've been hired to fight a war. By definition, they are mercenaries.


Really? Which offensive actions has BW undertaken in order to achieve military objectives?


Originally posted by slackerwire

You are simply wrong here. The weapons they carry are in fact "assault weapons" (yes, the M4 is an assault rifle).


Wrong. Semi Auto M4's are not "assault rifles". They do not have the capability of select fire, which is required in order to meet the definition of assault rifle.


Originally posted by slackerwire

So what? 90% of the population of this country has an anti-war agenda.


90%????/ Source that.


Originally posted by slackerwire

Semantics. To the average joe, any firearm used in a military or paramilitary role is a "machine gun". You're reaching.


Unless you wish to pretend that the "average joe" is a moron with absolutely no knowledge of firearms, you are simply wrong. Then again, maybe that describes you to a T.


Originally posted by slackerwire

Point? The M4 is an assault weapon, and they do intimidate civilians.


Wrong.

They intimidate? Really? I own 3 M4's, how many people have mine intimidated?


Originally posted by slackerwire

Where's the "untruth" in this? This is exactly what makes them "mercenaries". They fight for money, no matter what side of any confrontation hires them.


Surely you can provide evidence that BW engaged in offensive operations in NO right? Lets see it.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 06:09 PM
link   

Originally posted by slackerwire
Really? Which offensive actions has BW undertaken in order to achieve military objectives?

Unfortunately, I'm not privy to their endeavors in Iraq. I do however, live in a military town, right next to a military base, with military neighbors. Military neighbors who have all completed multiple tours in Iraq. Tours in Iraq in which their units worked side by side with Blackwater, searching homes, seizing weapons and equipment... etc. etc. etc.

Now, since you're so into semantics and technicalities, lets see exactly what a mercenary is:


A mercenary is a person who takes part in an armed conflict who is not a national or a party to the conflict and "is motivated to take part in the hostilities essentially by the desire for private gain and, in fact, is promised, by or on behalf of a Party to the conflict, material compensation substantially in excess of that promised or paid to combatants of similar ranks and functions in the armed forces of that Party"


Hmm, can you think of any armed conflicts Blackwater is participating in? Check.
Are they doing it for free? Nope... check.
Are they party to the conflict? Nope... check.
Are they being paid by someone who is? lets see... check.

So, whether their on protection detail or not, they're still mercenaries. When they're being paid to "defend principals during their diplomatic duty" by the US government, who created the situation which requires defense of said principal by engaging in a war that interfere with said principals said diplomatic duties, they're mercenaries. Sounds like you want a job, but don't want to be labeled a mercenary.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Wrong. Semi Auto M4's are not "assault rifles". They do not have the capability of select fire, which is required in order to meet the definition of assault rifle.

I can use wiki too...
* A carbine sized individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder.
* Capable of selective fire.
* Intermediate-power cartridge between pistol and traditional rifle.
* Ammunition is supplied from a large capacity detachable box magazine.

Ok, so you have me, again on semantics. What's the average person supposed to call it? It's not exactly a deer hunting rifle now is it. Without laying your hands on it, and inspecting the weapon up close, there is no discernible difference between the "assault" and "non-assault" versions of the M4. Not to mention, your tight conformity to the technical definition of an assault weapon is rather muted by your loose interpretation of the definition of mercenary.


Originally posted by slackerwire
90%????/ Source that.

Are you effing kidding me?! EVERYONE should have an anti war agenda, and last I checked, public support for the war wasn't at an all time high. Speaking of agendas, what is yours? You seem to be going to significant lengths to paint a picture of Blackwater that looks like mall security bringing an ice cream cone to a little girl who cant find her parents.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Unless you wish to pretend that the "average joe" is a moron with absolutely no knowledge of firearms, you are simply wrong. Then again, maybe that describes you to a T.

So, are you implying that one is a moron for not having knowledge of firearms (that's rhetorical by the way, your implication is obvious)? And yes, the "average joe" does not share you extreme wealth of knowledge on the subject. Nor do they share your obsession with futilely attempting to justify the existence and actions of paramilitary organizations that profit from illegal wars.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Wrong.

They intimidate? Really? I own 3 M4's, how many people have mine intimidated?

100% of the people you've pointed them at. Didn't quite think that one through did you... It seems you have a rather narrow perspective on these matters. Any way you slice it, guns scare people, regardless of the situation. A guy showing up on your front porch, wearing BDU's, and carrying tactical weapons, demanding entry to your home, might not phase you. But guess what... It scares the crap out of just about everyone else. I further postulate that these weapons are used as tools of intimidation, independent of their other uses. Any time this weapon is raised to another human being, without the trigger being pulled, the intended use is to intimidate.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Surely you can provide evidence that BW engaged in offensive operations in NO right? Lets see it.

Some would say collecting U.S. Citizens firearms at the behest of the government would constitute an offensive operation. Don't forget however, an operation doesn't need to be offensive for the participants to be defined (correctly) as mercenaries.

Have a nice day, and I'm really sorry you didn't get to play G.I. Joe enough when you were younger.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 09:38 PM
link   

Originally posted by Unit541

Unfortunately, I'm not privy to their endeavors in Iraq. I do however, live in a military town, right next to a military base, with military neighbors. Military neighbors who have all completed multiple tours in Iraq. Tours in Iraq in which their units worked side by side with Blackwater, searching homes, seizing weapons and equipment... etc. etc. etc.


Haha you are too much. So you base your information on hearsay, without having any factual evidence to substantiate your claim. That kind of logic wont get you very far.



Hmm, can you think of any armed conflicts Blackwater is participating in? Check.
Are they doing it for free? Nope... check.
Are they party to the conflict? Nope... check.
Are they being paid by someone who is? lets see... check.

So, whether their on protection detail or not, they're still mercenaries. When they're being paid to "defend principals during their diplomatic duty" by the US government, who created the situation which requires defense of said principal by engaging in a war that interfere with said principals said diplomatic duties, they're mercenaries. Sounds like you want a job, but don't want to be labeled a mercenary.


Lets just cut the crap here and get it out in the open that you are against the Iraq conflict for whatever reason, and no amount of fact, evidence, or logic will convince you that BW is not a merc organization.

Using your own logic, you believe each and every member of every military on the planet is a mercenary correct?




I can use wiki too...
* A carbine sized individual weapon with provision to fire from the shoulder.
* Capable of selective fire.
* Intermediate-power cartridge between pistol and traditional rifle.
* Ammunition is supplied from a large capacity detachable box magazine.

Ok, so you have me, again on semantics. What's the average person supposed to call it? It's not exactly a deer hunting rifle now is it. Without laying your hands on it, and inspecting the weapon up close, there is no discernible difference between the "assault" and "non-assault" versions of the M4. Not to mention, your tight conformity to the technical definition of an assault weapon is rather muted by your loose interpretation of the definition of mercenary.


I have no need to use Wiki as I, unlike you, actually know what I'm talking about.

You disregard it as semantics, but the very fact you brush it off as such shows your ignorance. There is a very big difference between an "assault rifle(oooohhh, scary term to demonize something) and a semi auto carbine rifle.




Are you effing kidding me?! EVERYONE should have an anti war agenda, and last I checked, public support for the war wasn't at an all time high. Speaking of agendas, what is yours? You seem to be going to significant lengths to paint a picture of Blackwater that looks like mall security bringing an ice cream cone to a little girl who cant find her parents.


AKA you cant source your claim. Gotcha.




So, are you implying that one is a moron for not having knowledge of firearms (that's rhetorical by the way, your implication is obvious)? And yes, the "average joe" does not share you extreme wealth of knowledge on the subject. Nor do they share your obsession with futilely attempting to justify the existence and actions of paramilitary organizations that profit from illegal wars.


70+ million gun owners know the difference, why dont you?





Some would say collecting U.S. Citizens firearms at the behest of the government would constitute an offensive operation. Don't forget however, an operation doesn't need to be offensive for the participants to be defined (correctly) as mercenaries.


Uh, hate to burst your little leftist indoctrinated bubble here kid, but BW didnt conduct any firearm seizures in NO, that was the POLICE backed up by the NATIONAL GUARD.

Think I'm wrong? Try actually researching it instead of listening to people like Scahill.

When you realize you are once again wrong, try not to call it semantics this time. I rely on fact, you rely on emotion based biases.


Have a nice day, and I'm really sorry you didn't get to play G.I. Joe enough when you were younger.


Sorry, I actually served this nation. Some of us have the testicular fortitude to do so, and some like you dont.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 10:00 PM
link   
I'm finding this pretty funny where slackerwire is defending mercenary organizations like Blackwater which is a a highly paid private military organization. War period is offensive to ANYONE who has lost a loved one, even though that person has "served their country." While mercenaries are highly paid "private armies" technically soldiers are paid as well, no matter the country. Semantics there Unit541 but I agree with you on the definition of a mercenary.

A weapon is a weapon is a weapon, plain and simple. I'm pro-gun which is the irony with this post for Me as I believe a human has the right to protect their person and property from anyone who attempts to take it away. I don't know of any human who thrives on the death of another being with the exception of a soldier and even then some soldiers are torn up for long terms of time over ending someone's life.

Sourced proof that people are anti-war. Not necessarily 90% but it is in Washington DC, the countries capitol, isn't it.



Another anti-war rally. HHHmmm...I'm sensing a pattern here.



Wow, yet another anti-war rally...




An average citizen does not necessarily need to know the specifics of a weapon to know that a weapon can kill. The movie "Bambi" shows you that and the feeling that poor little dear had when mommy died at the gun of a hunter.

Unit541, I think you're wasting your breath on slackerwire, he's obviously not the "average joe" type, he's oh so obviously superior to that. I almost kept a straight face when I said that, lol.

I don't believe anyone here specifically said you, slackerwire utilized your weapons to intimidate anyone but a lot of people are intimidated by other people having guns. A weapon itself is useless without a highly trained individual to be able to point it at someone else and know when to follow orders to pull the trigger.

New Orleans was under Martial Law due to hurricane Katrina. I've heard stories from people I will not disclose where entire groups of individuals were slaughtered and the bodies were thrown into a warehouse and the building burned to cover it all up as "hurricane damage." You know some people are sure to ask Me about My utilization of Spartan-117 from the popular video game as My avatar here along with the name of the Spartan King, Leonidas in a conjnective effort to sit here and seemingly bad-mouth Blackwater and warfare.

I learned all throughout My life about warfare from physical combat, verbal combat, mental combat, and spiritual combat but the hardest lesson I've had to learn to date has been when to stand down and not escalate the situation. I learned that lesson maybe five years ago about when not to fight but to fight through passive-resistance to overwhelming forces. While I know that the military can not necessarily do that and I do appreciate weapons I know how to be responsible enough to not pull the trigger on a weapon unless My own life or that of another is in jeopardy.

Just because someone knows how to fight a war does not necessarily mean they are a good person but someone who knows how to fight the peace is an even better person to be able to stop a conflict through their words instead of picking up a gun. To be prepared for war one must know how to be prepared for peace. Utilizing tactics one man can make a difference in this world. One man can stand against countless soldiers if he knows the right words to use.

Any man can pick up a gun and make someone do what they want, but when a man becomes powerful enough to use his words to make other people pick up weapons in his name or even to put them down he becomes powerful truly. It's in doing this that the man has to choose wisely not to influence those other people to do that for the wrong reasons or for financial gain through war-mongering but through an actual need to stop a truly greater evil.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 11:03 PM
link   
The only thing raw power understands is raw power that fights back.
Stupid, incipent, whimpy, pacifists will be rolled over by tank tracks and stomped on by heavy jack boots.
Sanctioned thugs, can only go so far, before they have to stop. Either because they have run out of victims, or the winds have changed against them.
These ass clowns parading as mercenaries, can be killed with a 30.06 bullet from 500 yds out easily. Drop a dozen of them with well placed group fire, and they will tuck tail and run. Kidnap their family members, and they'll piss their black pants into their boots. Send one of them a photo of their 2 year old daughter and clipping of her hair, and he'll resign.
Blackwater types depend on the subjugated to be unarmed, defenseless, stupid, and scared of them. They think in group think, and work as gangs. Five gallons of gasoline and a match will stop just about anything. Even a tank! Fifty five gallons of fuel oil and a spark plug will blow a tank or armoured car off the road. A 22 cal bullet to the eye, will stop anyone. So will a soup can of gasoline to the face, and a cigarette. Molotov cocktails still work wonders.
99% of Blackwaters or the like, fame and fear, is hype and propaganda.
They'd like us all to think they are the NAZI S.S. squads with Deaths Head insignia's, but they aren't. They are paid employees, who have no loyality except for the pay check in the bank account. They can quit and go home.
Capture a couple of these jokers, strip them naked, take photos of them hanging by their heels dead, and post it on the media circuits, they'll think twice about the capabilty of the enemy. Kill enough of them, and they'll say to hell with this schit, and resign. Businesses like Blackwater, KBR, etc. are for profit businesses. They operate with a budget, and operating costs. Once the costs of personnel, material, and equipment escalate to high, and they are lossing money like crazy, they will have to rethink everything. After a while, it isn't worth the contract costs to them.
Remember, if they carry 223's /5.56's then you use 7.62/.308 If they use 3.08/50 cal. you use .30.06 HP / .44 magnums and dynamite and nitro. (easy to concock and home make with simple supplies)
No one is invinceable. No one is such a super bad ass, that they cannot be stopped. Power respects power. The better marksman, who is patient and cunning will always win the day.
Big dudes who press 350 lbs easily can be stopped by a 90 lb. female marksman hidden in the shadows. The Vet Cong showed their abilities big time to all the John Wayne types in Viet Nam,Cambodia, and Thailand.
Don't fear these jerks...
If they come, and you show no fear of them, that will set them back on their heels right at the start. They feed on your fear. They expect your fear. If they can't get any, they will fear you. guaranteed!

Oh; a heliocopter gun ship, can be taken out with gun fire to the engine nacelles, and just below where all the power componets are.
Combat aircraft usually have self sealing rubber bladders in the fuel tanks. Go for the support systems. Like the hydralic pumps, fuel pressure systems and electical generators.
A well flung chain or cable thrown from a roof top, onto a chopper hovering with in range of the throw, will always foul the rotors.
An amour piercing/teflon coated bullet can take out the pilot easily.
Spray can Teflon sold in hardware stores works very well. Teflon like paint coatings on the tip of bullets will penetrate body armour. File the tips flat first, coat them, and you have cop killers.
the point is, improvised home made devices have proven themslves well in Iraq. Think of what you can make with all the supplies from Home Depot of the like.

Let Blackwater try to roust around american citizens....they wouldn't know what the hell hit them!

[edit on 6-5-2008 by UFOBountyHunter]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 11:20 PM
link   
I went searching throughout ATS and found other relevant threads on Blackwater and thought I'd share this one where the author thinks Blackwater looks like wimps in comparison to Kroll.

Kroll Makes Blackwater Look Like Wimps...

I went searching yet again and found this YouTube video about Tiananmen Sqaure :



Here's Martin Luther King Jr's "I Have A Dream" speech :



YouTube video of Black Sabbath's "War Pigs" :



Lyrics to Black Sabbath's "War Pigs"


Generals gathered in their masses
just like witches at black masses
evil minds that plot destruction
sorcerers of death's construction
in the fields the bodies burning
as the war machine keeps turning
death and hatred to mankind
poisoning their brainwashed minds, oh lord yeah!

Politicians hide themselves away
they only started the war
Why should they go out to fight?
They leave that role to the poor

Time will tell on their power minds
Making war just for fun
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait 'till their judgement day comes, yeah!

Now in darkness, world stops turning
ashes were the bodies burning
No more war pigs of the power
Hand of god has struck the hour
Day of judgement, god is calling
on their knees, the war pigs crawling
Begging mercy for their sins
Satan, laughing, spreads his wings

OH LORD YEAH!

Generals gathered in their masses
Just like Witches at Black Masses
In the fields their bodies burning
As the war machine keeps turning

Evil minds that plot destruction
Sorcerer of death's construction
It's the same wherever you go
To the War Pigs people know

OH LORD YEAH!

Politicians hide themselves away
They only started the war
Treating people just like pawns in chess
Wait till their judgement day comes ... Yeah!

People running like they're sheep in fields
People blowing out their minds
Say that you're dying here ... I know it now
Hey, you're the goner at the end ... Yeah!

On the scene a priest appears
Hell is falling at his knees
Satan sends out funeral pyre
Cast the priest into the fire

It's the place for all bad sinners
Watch them eating dead rat cinders
It's the same wherever you go
To Black Masses people go

OH LORD YEAH!


It's funny how a cokehead rock and roll genius can see the truth and put it out there for the world to see, isn't it.


[edit on 6-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

[edit on 5/8/2008 by benevolent tyrant]



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:50 AM
link   
I just got done reading Chapter 6 of this awesome book called "Blackwa ter : Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army" which outlines the tragedy where the four "contractor's" that get ruthlessly murdered by Iraqi's. I found a YouTube video from one of the families of one of those men, Scott Helvenston. The book explains about the lack of protection that was supplied to these four men, that there were only the four men, instead of the usual six, where the missing man from each vehicle would have been covering the usage of the machine-gun on top of their vehicle.


Iraq For Sale :



Iraq For Sale :



Blackwater Hiring Outside The U.S. :



The problem with those four "private contractor's" having been killed, according to this book "Blackwa ter : Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army" is that through the facts it outlines where the mission Scott Helvenston was on was "FUBAR" from the get-go because first, there were only two Blackwater employees, second the vehicles were not regularly used vehicles with armor plating, third there movements were leaked from the Blackwater compound.

If you don't know what FUBAR mean, go to the link. I'm not explaining the euphamism here as the acronym will get Me banned and kicked off ATS. It's military slang is all I will tell you for everything's messed up. For these men who are a part of the "private military" world, a large part of them used to be former "Navy SEAL's" where the motto is "Never Leave A Man Behind" to be working outside of that formerly duty-bound creed absolutely sucks.

I have the utmost respect for the Navy SEAL's, as they are the hardest and most dedicated group of men you will ever know have done their job and always gotten "every man out" even if it's that they had to go back for dead bodies so that they wouldn't be desicrated by the "enemy of the day."

You're all probably wondering why it is that I have gone to so much time, effort, and trouble to dedicate so much to this thread. It is because under the U.S. Government and the current Administration, they believe that the oath to protect the United States of America "from all enemies foreign and domestic" means the citizens of the United States of America who diagree with the Government being all-powerful to the point of telling you everything you can and can't do.

Blackwater is one of those organizations that will be coming to take away your weapons and killing you if you try to stop them, under "Martial Law" of course, since we all know if there is no state of Martial Law, that they have no power to do so without the President ordering them to do so, and we all know how much the American people will disagree with that.

Don't believe Me? Really? Are you kidding Me? Have you not read anything in the newspapers for the last 30 years? How about everything across the televised network about the school-shootings? What about hurricane Katrina where essentially said, people were never allowed to go back home and the corrupt politicians swooped in and either directly or indirectly bought all the property dirt-cheap to abuse that "National Disaster" and the people they were supposed to protect in order to "make a buck?"

[edit on 7-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 10:17 AM
link   
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas
 


I'm finding that pretty funny as well...Makes me wonder where many of these people's loyalties lie. These guys just recently outraged Iraqis by trying to "pay off" families for innocent people they killed. They were offering relatives some ridiculous amount, like 5 grand, for each innocent person they "accidently" murdered. They have no oversight, and itchy trigger fingers-PERIOD.

Not good to have these folks roaming around the states, not good at all. They are bad news-they're not "good guys" as some of these people are trying to portray.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 11:27 AM
link   

Originally posted by slackerwire
Haha you are too much. So you base your information on hearsay, without having any factual evidence to substantiate your claim. That kind of logic wont get you very far.

Haven't seen much factual evidence to substantiate your claims either... Testimony by those present is certainly more substantial than your blind support of a mercenary organization.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Lets just cut the crap here and get it out in the open that you are against the Iraq conflict for whatever reason, and no amount of fact, evidence, or logic will convince you that BW is not a merc organization.

Could any amount of fact, evidence or logic convince you that the sky is yellow? No, because it's not. If you want to cut the crap, one of the first steps in doing so is to recognize that the “conflict” in Iraq is a war. And yes, I am against the war. I’m against the war for the same reasons the vast majority of the people in this country are against it. Don’t act like I’m some kind of lone dissident in a nation full of slakerwire clones. The fact is my friend, that YOU are the minority in your support for an illegal war that has not only destroyed Iraq, but has divided our own country, as you and I are clearly illustrating here.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Using your own logic, you believe each and every member of every military on the planet is a mercenary correct?

lmao... Uh, no. And I'm the one accused of not knowing what I'm talking about... I even provided a clear definition of "mercenary" for you... Members of the armed services are "parties to the conflict", as extensions of the governments involved. This concept, while apparently difficult to grasp, means they're NOT mercenaries. Hell, Blackwater even describes itself as a "private military company". By their own words, Blackwater is a military for hire. If it walks like a duck... You act like I'm the only one who considers them mercenaries... Google the word "Blackwater", and count how many times the word "Mercenary" occurs on each page... Again, if it walks like a duck.


Originally posted by slackerwire
I have no need to use Wiki as I, unlike you, actually know what I'm talking about.
You disregard it as semantics, but the very fact you brush it off as such shows your ignorance. There is a very big difference between an "assault rifle(oooohhh, scary term to demonize something) and a semi auto carbine rifle.

So yeah, you're right. To the average citizen, it's obvious that this Blackwater operator is not carrying an assault weapon...


Yeah, looks like your average group of "security guards" to me...


This is certainly not an assault weapon.


and these guys are most definitely not fulfilling a military role...



Originally posted by slackerwire
AKA you cant source your claim. Gotcha.

Have you sourced any of yours? I think you're the only one who doesn't believe the population of this country is against the war in Iraq. Let me guess, you think Saddam masterminded 9/11 and had nuclear armed ICBMs pointed at New Jersey too.


Originally posted by slackerwire
70+ million gun owners know the difference, why dont you?

see pictures above... lol. Do you really think, that anyone cares if those weapon has a select fire switch or not?


Originally posted by slackerwire
Uh, hate to burst your little leftist indoctrinated bubble here kid, but BW didnt conduct any firearm seizures in NO, that was the POLICE backed up by the NATIONAL GUARD.
Think I'm wrong? Try actually researching it instead of listening to people like Scahill.

My apologies for blowing my bubble up again, but I was there... kid.


Originally posted by slackerwire
When you realize you are once again wrong, try not to call it semantics this time. I rely on fact, you rely on emotion based biases.

You rely on fact? You rely on the same technique the current administration does to pass bills such as H.R. 1955 and NSPD 51. You interpret the "facts" in ways that suit your agenda.


Originally posted by slackerwire
Sorry, I actually served this nation. Some of us have the testicular fortitude to do so, and some like you dont.

Who the hell are you to question my patriotism? A military career didn't fulfill my financial ambitions, so I didn't re-enlist. I would have been happy to continue this exercise in futility for a few more exchanges, but as your demeanor has devolved to the point of personal insults and accusations, I'm going to step aside and introduce you to my ignore list.

Have a nice day, and thanks for serving.



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 12:32 PM
link   
Very well informed and thought out post!


Blackwater. Well first lets talk about what Black Ice is. Which is a frozen version of what water is.
BlackIce- difficult-to-detect/ also known as "glare ice" or "clear ice," typically refers to a thin coating of glazed ice on a surface, often a roadway. One can not see black Ice.

Now that we have gone over this term. I would like to suggest Blackwater didnt just think up a cool name.. Its called BLACKwater for a reason!

Blackwater is a group of Mercs, that are unseen from many policy.
Even our own president said, its convenitent that he can dodge this question. It seems no one knows the direct laws that govern this group.

However upon much of my reading and research I do know who governs them and what laws they must adhere too.
That is of the corperate entity. Blackwater is the personal task force for entities such as Kroll Inc. to name just one. There are many more entities which they take orders from.

Blackwater will be the private forces that come and take your guns away from you. Blackwater will be the private force when it comes down to martial law.
These guys have no direct law which can hold them accountable. They are a coperate entity themselfs, and the enity as a whole is the only way you can stop them. As each member can be held for illeagal acts, and depends who catches them, and where they are being held for their actions. IN America we have Criminal Justice. Where the Criminals are the ones who are in charge of the Justice.
Our government doesnt make mistakes! They know what they are doing, and they have been at this game for a very long long time!
The only mistake is the one you make when you doubt our governments have the kind of power to dodge and fool an entire nation.

Blackwater is the only one you hear about aswell. There is a good chance Blackwater is not the main private force. As I know damn well the ones you dont even hear about are the ones you need to worry about.
Blackwater is an off shoot from an even deeper conspiracy of lies, control, and private armies put there by our masters.

However Blackwater is just a small part to this whole puzzle. The federal banking system, and places like Monsanto are far more dangerous to us than standing armies.. However these corperations must have standing Armies just incase some decides to use force aginst them.

Blackwater is here to make sure NO one gets the balls to rise up aginst this government. Here or anywhere else for that matter.
Blackwater has been given its order to ensure chaos in what ever region they are enbedded within.

And I will tell you something else.. Every one of my friends that are over in Iraq cant email me directly how they feel about Blackwater, but they hint enough to me that these guys are really make it hard on our boys and girls over there.. Not only making it harder! But being paided much much more for contracts they are being paided to fullfill.

There is still much to learn about these private Mercs. And Im happy to know we here are doing our best to try to understand whats going on here.
I will try to get a more factual post going, I just wanted to jump right in with this post here.. Next one I make I will supply some links, and source detaisl to my thoughts.

However much like BlackIce.. You dont see it, until its to late.
And these guys loving using names, terms and symbols to put it right in our faces.. And show us that they mean biz!
While the average person will not look into things like I do.. But agin Ive been seeking the truth for a long time now. I dont claim to have the truth, but only searching for the truth.. And there is so much to know, one can realize that we dont know that much at all.
When bottom line, there are groups out there, that are unknown to us all. And those are the guys we need to be trying to find out who they are.
Yet Blackwater can lead us to these questions.

Thanks agin, and great post! Star and flag from me!


Edit- spelling fix.. Also I have known Blackwater was named after the pond which they where set up.. However I do know that these occult names mean more than just the mondain reasons they give us for such accounts.. Yes there is a deeper meaning behind Blackwater, than what you are told.. And its IMHO, that blackwater's name has deeper and hidden message.. Yet agin, thats just me. And thats what I bring to the table. Some call it guess work.. I call it research


And I do know there is enough dirt on them..
However I never claim to hold the truth.. Nor do I say I know whats going on 100% I can only do what I have always done threw my life.
And thats seek the truth.. Between the cracks, and prehaps what I said may help someone else find the truths they seek.
Take what you need. Leave the rest!

[edit on 7-5-2008 by zysin5]



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 01:32 PM
link   
If "Pinky and The Brain", that would be George W Bush and Dick Cheney think that the average American citizen are going to let an organization like Blackwater keep going I believe the American people have something to say about that.

Pinky and The Brain :



It's quite funny how there's a "Continuity of Government" program, that's the continuance of government, which is not a guarantee, of a continuance of your freedom and or living, and survival. Listen to the words carefully in this video.

Continuity of Government :



Continuity of Government :



[edit on 7-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

[edit on 7-5-2008 by SpartanKingLeonidas]





top topics
 
70
<< 1  2  3    5  6  7 >>

log in

join