Blackwater : Right-Wing Conservative America, Whether You Like It Or Not...

Originally posted by Majiq
My brother-in-law worked for Blackwater in Iraq. Don't know when they supposedly left the area, but his contract to work for them just ended in August, that is when he came home. I have asked him about them, but even though he is open about his time in Iraq with the Army, he won't talk about his last 3 years there working for Blackwater. All he says is that it is a crazy company, and he wants nothing to do with them.

I would not be surprised in the least because the company as well as the mindset of the type of personality of people who are expected to work for them celebrates the idiotic "cowboy" mentality celebrating violence.

I am talking about people who go out of their way to seek violence as a means to an end.

If your brother-in-law does not enjoy working there then he is probably not among that class of citizen or soldier, and I respect that.

A soldier has to have a system of checks and balances, policies, procedures, and protocols as well as the United States Code of Military Justice, in order to guide the actions of the soldier, as well as their officer's, to protect them, and as well protect the citizens that they may eventually come into contact with.

This is the only reason I abhor Blackwater/Xe they are operating outside the normal bounds of protective military realm, and while I do not celebrate violence, I do know the difference of serving ones country and being a second rate mercenary.

There is a distinct difference from being a solider and a private military contractor.

A soldier follows orders and a private military contractor follows money.

A soldier retires when the time comes, falls back into society, and becomes a citizen, mechanic, U.P.S. worker, or whatever else, while a pirvate military contractor was a former soldier and instead of retiring when they should they continue on well past a recommended age and as well past a psychologically fit mindset.

I respect the Navy S.E.A.L.'s which a lot of Blackwater/Xe people are, but the moment they hang up that Trident and S.E.A.L. Budweiser they need to enter the Reserve, retire and become a private citizen and open a regular business, or they lose all respect and credibility they earned as a S.E.A.L.

[edit on 25-9-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

Fear is the driving force of control...and this is true in Canada as well.

www.rwnicholson.com... Corruption.htm



[edit on 19-10-2009 by wdavidb]

Originally posted by wdavidb
Fear is the driving force of control...and this is true in Canada as well.

www.rwnicholson.com... Corruption.htm

Your link did not work for some odd reason.

Care to edit it?

How is this in context with the Blackwater/Xe "private military contractors"/mercenaries?

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas

Originally posted by wdavidb
Fear is the driving force of control...and this is true in Canada as well.

www.rwnicholson.com... Corruption.htm

Your link did not work for some odd reason.

Care to edit it?

How is this in context with the Blackwater/Xe "private military contractors"/mercenaries?

Google found it: Seems to be a scathing review of Canadian law enforcement. I don't see a connection to PMC's though. .
www.rwnicholson.com...

[edit on 10/19/2009 by clay2 baraka]

www.rwnicholson.com... Corruption.htm

Blackwater is only one of many organizations capable of making life very unpleasant for the average citizen.

You don't need to be a private army to be nasty.

reply to post by clay2 baraka


Thanks for finding the link for him.

I see a lot of the R.C.M.P. linked in there, being the Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

I am with you in how I am failing to see how this is contextual about Blackwater/Xe.

Originally posted by wdavidb
www.rwnicholson.com... Corruption.htm

Blackwater is only one of many organizations capable of making life very unpleasant for the average citizen.

You don't need to be a private army to be nasty.

Be that as it may this thread is about Blackwater/Xe.

Are you stating something about "right-wing" instead of Blackwater/Xe?

I will give you a fair shot at stating your opinion.

I am giving you a heads up though that myself and others are not seeing where you're going with your particular thoughts on this thread in the context of it's meaning.

Please, expand and expound on your previous posts.

Thanks.

If you keep reading the link it will become clear.

Any police or military organization without adequate checks and balances can be dangerous to the population.

You don't think Blackwater is right wing?

How much more right wing could it be?

Originally posted by wdavidb
If you keep reading the link it will become clear.

Any police or military organization without adequate checks and balances can be dangerous to the population.

Of course.

It is quite clear that any Police or Military Organization without adequate checks and balances can be a danger to the population, but the same can be said of the Government as well.

My original inquiries to you still stand though, in how does this pertain to Blackwater/Xe?

This is where you state that you see the similarities between the criminal type behavior of Law Enforcement and or regular Military verses Blackwater/Xe, etc.

I can see you're driving somewhere with your point, and I appreciate that, but without you putting more context behind your posts, it looks like, but it may become the incorrect assumption, that you are not on topic with the topic.

This is where a Super Moderator or Moderator will come in if they happen upon the thread and ask you to stay on topic, so what I was trying to do was give you a fair advantage of a friendly, Hey Bub, what's up? there.

Feel free to speak your mind, but not everyone is as friendly as the previous poster or myself in people not explaining what they are thinking, and since I began the thread I am being as friendly and helpful as possible.

Your link was/is interesting to say the least because Law Enforcement and Military corruption are sometimes just as rampant as corporations like Blackwater/Xe, but just remember that this is a place for friendly discussion and that you can comment on anything you want, as long as it is in context with the original intent of the message of the thread, otherwise you may be told you're off topic by an Administrator, Super Moderator, or Moderator.



Here's an example of what I am talking about for your edification as well as to expound on the topic.

Youtube Video : State of Play


I just recently watched the movie State of Play again and even my non-conspiracy theorists friends noticed the tone and meaning behind the movie seemed to almost be talking about Blackwater/Xe the mercenary/private military contractors over in Iraq and as well that are here in America attempting to take over all of the local and federal Law Enforcement duties.

They are training Law Enforcement individuals in the capacity of war on American soil.

The website went from Blackwater to U.S. Training to Xe in a state of flux as a transition which to me was a shady way of hiding their agenda behind the website and closed doors.



See what I mean there?

The checks and balances against Blackwater are the paychecks.

There are needful things that a military won't do, things that civilians can't do, and this mercenary thing has been around for thousands of years.

Persian, in their heyday, couldn't fight worth squat unless they were fighting little retard countries, and had to resort to hiring Greek mercenaries for the heavy lifting.

Blackwater, Triple Canopy, and others have their place in the sun.

They get things done.

Things that need doing.

That's what they get paid for, and they wouldn't exist if there weren't a need.

Originally posted by dooper
The checks and balances against Blackwater are the paychecks.

There are needful things that a military won't do, things that civilians can't do, and this mercenary thing has been around for thousands of years.

Persian, in their heyday, couldn't fight worth squat unless they were fighting little retard countries, and had to resort to hiring Greek mercenaries for the heavy lifting.

Blackwater, Triple Canopy, and others have their place in the sun.

They get things done.

Things that need doing.

That's what they get paid for, and they wouldn't exist if there weren't a need.

Yes, I can agree with you that checks and balances are the paychecks, this I see.

Yes, I can agree with you that the regular military cannot do certain things, this I see.

The question is not whether the military can do it, it is rather whether it should do it and whether it is legal, ethical, and moral?

When you make the war machine as easy to facilitate as a McDonalds franchise though you get the guarantee of just the same type of quality work, because the system of checks and balances that are supposed to be there to protect American citizens is no longer there.

McBlackwater, McXe, McTriple Canopy, or McKroll, it matters not which entity you plug into the analogy, it still gets the same damn thing, instead of a military where there is a set of standards, quality, and checks with balances, you get instead sloppy killing needlessly.

Here's your order of War-Burger and shake. Would you like fries with that, sir?

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas


Fair enough, but let's look at it another way.

You're right. The military has guidelines, restrictions, regulations, and are limited by any number of treaty limitations.

Spartan, I can tell you first hand that if you want to get something done that would require force - it's much less blood and much quicker to be able to skirt the rules.

Five hundred mercenaries can do things that five thousand soldiers can't do.

It's not that the soldiers are incapable, but that the mercenaries are among the best of the best. They have much different motivations, much different skill sets, much different mind-sets, and they can make things happen. Fast.

Consider the Ten Thousand of Xenophone.

I've done a bit of manhunting for the money myself, and we were highly motivated. Much different putting your ass on the line for a really good payday than for the normal pay as a soldier.

A mercenary will really let it hang out there, just to get the job done.

They have their place.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

Fair enough, but let's look at it another way.

You're right. The military has guidelines, restrictions, regulations, and are limited by any number of treaty limitations.

Spartan, I can tell you first hand that if you want to get something done that would require force - it's much less blood and much quicker to be able to skirt the rules.

Five hundred mercenaries can do things that five thousand soldiers can't do.

It's not that the soldiers are incapable, but that the mercenaries are among the best of the best. They have much different motivations, much different skill sets, much different mind-sets, and they can make things happen. Fast.

Consider the Ten Thousand of Xenophone.

I've done a bit of manhunting for the money myself, and we were highly motivated. Much different putting your ass on the line for a really good payday than for the normal pay as a soldier.

A mercenary will really let it hang out there, just to get the job done.

They have their place.

I know all about skirting the rules when it necessitates getting things done.

Maybe not in the context you are speaking about, but I do understand it.

But, skirting rules, is that good or bad?

Usually, it is a bad thing, whether it is needed, or not, it necessitates breaking the rules.

Cannot the rules be changed, or a different agency be asked to do it, without mercenaries?

I will give you the perfect example of neglected duties that our Government should be outsourcing those men, like you stated you did a bit of manhunting with in the neglectful attitude of our Government who would rather send bastards, no offense meant, over to kill for oil and land, then bother with these types of events.

People smuggler taken into custody

Asking For Psychic Assistance : Project Caylee Anthony

12 White Slaves Halted on the Border

Missing Persons- Help Find Us

When the Government gives a bigger damn about money, oil, land, and seizing other countries than it's own citizens, and outsources warriors instead to Iraq, Afghanistan, or soon to be North Korea and Venezuela, it is a crying shame that our Government is allowed to stand because as far as I am concerned they have crap on their faces and should be ashamed of themselves.

With all due respect to mercenaries, soldiers, and retired soldiers, I sure as Hell would respect them a lot more if they were searching and hunting for the bastards who steal children and sell them especially when they wind up in Asia and the Middle East, where the Golden Triangle and Golden Crescent are already wealthy as Hell because of not only drugs, but as well as the human trafficking.

It makes me sick to my stomach that the idiots in Washington D.C. give more consideration to oil, land, and power, and fake the crap in the War on Drugs, just to make more money on top of money, yet, people go missing every day and they do absolutely nothing about it.

[edit on 19-10-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

Rules only work against those who would follow them. It's a shame, but often enough, the other guys follow no rules. To continue to do so on your part puts you at a great disadvantage.

I can't tell you in combat how many Army regulations we violated on a daily basis. We didn't advertise our actions, but the best officers knew when to walk the other way. There's the military way, the wrong way, and then there's the way that works.

We too, knew the Geneva Conventions, and yet the other side didn't follow them.

We assumed that the Geneva Conventions were like a contract between belligerents. Once broken by the other side, we were under no obligation to follow them either, as the contract was now null and void.

Non-uniformed prisoners? Zero rights. They legally ceased to exist the moment they engaged. Every breath they took was at our convenience.

Interrogation? Again. Zero rights as they didn't exist. Not by international law, and not by moral law.

You want information? I can get it, and I can get it fast. And believe you me, it will be completely accurate.

Once you make a demonstration of how serious you are, when you start asking questions, they won't shut up. Now some folks would say that's not nice. It's illegal. Or it's immoral.

I really didn't care much about that - and as a task oriented person - the objective is to save lives on OUR SIDE. Not theirs.

Whatever it takes to get the job done. Anything less is a dereliction of duty.

It doesn't matter who is on the trigger when it comes time to shoot those who are deemed the other side.

What many folks don't realize, or don't want to admit, is the objective in conflict. That is to kill the most, in the shortest period of time, with the greatest efficiency, in the greatest concentrations.

When you kill enough, and ONLY when you kill enough, the other side reaches that point that they are unable to kill further or unwilling to die further.

To drag out a conflict by following rules is to extend the length of the conflict, affect many, many more civilians, inflict many, many more casualties, and continue the suffering on both sides.

I know it's just my opinion, but to be most merciful, one must be most ruthless.

And it doesn't matter who's writing your checks.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

 

To drag out a conflict by following rules is to extend the length of the conflict, affect many, many more civilians, inflict many, many more casualties, and continue the suffering on both sides.

I know it's just my opinion, but to be most merciful, one must be most ruthless.

And it doesn't matter who's writing your checks.

I fully understand the expediency of trying to save lives but at what cost?

The cost of losing all humanity?

Yes, war is in fact about saving lives, through taking them, the other sides lives.

Yes, the Geneva Convention is not heeded by the enemy, most often than not it is seen as a huge joke to them and they would laugh at you for reciting it if you were strapped down to the table and you were uttering it as a defense of your torture, but if we step away from rules first, or we step away from them at all then we are in fact no better than them, and the hypocrisy of politicians is just another sound byte that is a lie to sell to the citizens.

While I can understand the mercy through ruthlessness comment you made, I cannot agree, sometimes dropping a nuclear bomb and wiping out the entire region would be the most expedient, but then again the nuclear fallout and radiation would make the land inhospitable and uninhabitable, but then again that would not matter one iota if it were not for the fact that the war machine, the military industrial complex, Department of Defense and Pentagon, and the men making money would have a problem with that because their dainty little profits would be lost to the silent killer of radiation poisoning.

It doesn't matter who cuts the checks?

Really?

I would have a problem myself if I had a check cut to me by Saddam Hussein.

I would have a problem myself if I had a check cut to me by Hugo Chavez.

I would have a problem myself if I had a check cut to me by Vladimir Putin.

I would have a problem myself if I had a check cut to me by Kim Jong Il.

I would have a problem myself if I had a check cut to me by Khmer Rouge.

I do believe you meant your comment innocently enough, I am not misunderstanding it.

I only see war as a profit-making endeavor anymore.

It is not about stopping conflicts but about getting them covertly started for big brother to step in and stop them through whatever means necessary, but then again this fits perfectly for the duplicitous bastards in Washington D.C. who would lie through the political think-tank Project for the New American Century in order to get us embroiled and enshrouded in a needless war, costing us trillions in deficit, getting soldiers killed needlessly, for oil, not democracy, because when it boils down to the thick of it, the politicians do not give a damn about the Middle East, other than for the oil they can find there and the Sheik's, Mullah's, and Al Saud family and how they can suck them dry of their money.

It is pure manipulation of the system through deniability and the mercenaries are only carrying out the orders as a part of the process and the sheer stupid bull moose's who are imparting the ability for the politicians to cover up their crimes, atrocities, and theft of resources, and then shove a huge bill up the tax-payers backsides, both through taxes, as well as at the gas pump.

I respect you, dooper, I do, but I do not respect the politicians, the wars, nor the needless violence.

I considered briefly becoming a mercenary, back as a teenager, it was a dead serious consideration of mine, and I would have stepped through that if I had known how at the time, but not knowing who to talk to and not having been taken serious are the only two things that stopped me, and I am glad of it now because I see I would have lost my humanity and lost my soul in becoming a hired murderer, an assassin if you will, cashing in a paycheck for war's that are neither necessary nor wanted by either side.

Yes, there may be some necessity for war, at times, but not all the time.

The problem is that the military industrial complex will go bankrupt completely if war is not happening on a continual basis, and the arms manufacturers would go belly up, the manufacturers of the Hummer's, tanks, jets, weapons, etc would literally fall down and go boom on the emptiness of not being needed and zero cash-flow.

Soldiers, I can respect, wars for a need I can respect, but when war becomes McDonalds franchised, licensed out to killers in suits hiding behind their pimps at the Pentagon, it is in fact nothing but the whores of war.

I noticed you bypassed speaking about my previous comments on the Golden Triangle, the Golden Crescent, and human trafficking altogether.

[edit on 20-10-2009 by SpartanKingLeonidas]

I'm waiting for the Blackwater Air Force. Can't wait for them to get a load of surplus F-16's !



Maybe I'll get to fly with Stern's Wildcats after all !



Joking aside - At first I feared Blackwater but now I realize they are probably the ONLY fighting force overseas that DOES NOT have their hands tied, politically, in combat. I would argue that they (Blackwater) are more feared than the US Military. I view them as an asset and given the founder's background I highly doubt they would lead the charge in some kind of "domestic roundup". On the contrary - I see them rounding up corrupt politicos first and asking questions later.

Originally posted by ACEMANN
I'm waiting for the Blackwater Air Force. Can't wait for them to get a load of surplus F-16's !

Maybe I'll get to fly with Stern's Wildcats after all !



Joking aside - At first I feared Blackwater but now I realize they are probably the ONLY fighting force overseas that DOES NOT have their hands tied, politically, in combat. I would argue that they (Blackwater) are more feared than the US Military. I view them as an asset and given the founder's background I highly doubt they would lead the charge in some kind of "domestic roundup". On the contrary - I see them rounding up corrupt politicos first and asking questions later.

Blackwater/Xe already has an air force, helicopters.

While I certainly can understand the military not necessarily having their hands tied, politically, when fighting battles between the chain of command to the White House, the State Department putting their two cents in, the C.I.A. outsourcing, or some other country chiming in at the United Nations, that bureaucracy is vital to protect our soldiers through the use of the U.S.M.J.

Following rules, guidelines, policies, procedures, and protocols is a part of what makes the military a fierce force.

This is a lot of ex-military, primarily Special Forces, covert operators, who had their own special rules, guidelines, policies, procedures, and protocols prior to being "private military contractors", sorry a mercenary is a mercenary, and now are playing soldier outside of those bounds through what equals a white-washed version of the military hierarchy, and as a comparison it's like you went to McDonalds expecting a Big Mac, but instead they've now sold out to a cheap copycat version called MacRonnies, and you get the Huge Hack.

As for Blackwater/Xe not rounding citizens up, they will follow orders, because of who pays their paycheck, the Department of Defense, which bypasses Constitutional protections of the citizens through avoiding Posse Comitatus, where the military is not allowed to act in a Law Enforcement manner.

I guarantee Blackwater/Xe will not arrest any politicians, they will never bite the hand that feeds them.

I say GO BLACKWATER!!!!!!! Simple as this militaries are going through a recruitment crisis so we are buying back our ex elite! They trained to kill when they were with their defence forces and now they are looking after themselves and training to stay operational.

Simple as this do you want your defence forces working #ty little body guarding jobs the whole time when they are over there or do you want then taking rag heads? Take your pick you cant have your cake and eat it.

Originally posted by tythataussieguy
I say GO BLACKWATER!!!!!!! Simple as this militaries are going through a recruitment crisis so we are buying back our ex elite! They trained to kill when they were with their defence forces and now they are looking after themselves and training to stay operational.

Simple as this do you want your defence forces working #ty little body guarding jobs the whole time when they are over there or do you want then taking rag heads? Take your pick you cant have your cake and eat it.

Well, I will respect your opinion, but at the same time completely and wholeheartedly disagree with it.

I do not believe we need to be involved in a war that gets people killed for no more reason than oil, but I believe we need to pay our soldiers a fair value for their work, even higher than what they are now receiving for example what these men called mercenaries, who prefer Private Military Contractors are getting paid because by paying them higher than our soldiers this completely undermines the military in its entirety as well as the stupidity of having mercenaries protecting our military.

If this is the case of what we are going to do, the wrong thing, in screwing our military soldiers, then completely disband all military charters of all the Armed Services.

Which would be stupid.

I am not advocating disbanding the military, only pointing out how silly the dual military functions is, which is bypassing our Constitution, bypassing our regular system of checks and balances, bypassing the protections our soldiers are supposed to have through the P.M.C.'s taking the soldiers money and not having protection through benefits.