Iraq presents proof of Iranian meddling: official

Iranian meddling isn't news really; Iraq and Iran have been enemies since long before all this Middle East mess started with the Iranians taking hostages from the American Embassy in the late 70's.

The meddler is US! Here's an old 2006 article that proves my point I think.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Quote: "President Bush would have ordered an invasion of Iraq even if the CIA had told him that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, Vice President Dick Cheney said ..."

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


when it comes to the modern time middle-east issues, it is very hard to avoid to note israel's part in it. what the hell i can do about, that they are the most rotten nation in the area; you should do something about it, because you are there. start hugging the palestinians and other 'neighbours' instead of shooting them

And i can not see why Israel appears in this thread ?

Israel, and it's loyalists here in the US, are the major reason a conflict with Iran is even being discussed. We are essentially being asked to go to war on behalf of Israel - not so directly of course, but that's the gist of it - so Israel is relevant to the discussion.

The "arming militias" issue is a public relations ploy to try to build support for a war with Iran here in the US - if we were really serious about stopping foreign powers from arming insurgents that are attacking US forces, we'd be bringing up Saudi Arabia and Kuwait, who have been arming the Sunni militias that have conducted the majority of attacks on US forces.

[edit on 5/3/08 by xmotex]

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
As in billion other threads that start with X and eventually go to bash Israel.

There is an old saying that goes, "If someone has a problem with me, it may just be them. But if many people have a problem with me, maybe it IS me that has the problem. There is a problem with Israel. Just ask Mel Gibson. I kid.

Shall I elaborate my point though?

AAC

reply to post by Geemor

It is kind of hard to hug someone when both sides want to blow each other up and shoot each other. As for rotten part - well ,one question - Do you really think that your country has no skeletons in the closet?
Moral issues are problematic everywhere when politics are involved.

xmotex

I am sure that US in its foreign policy considers only interests of Israel. IT is hard to find such an examples of political altruism in recorded history, but i will trust you on that.
In 1991 when Iraqis missiles fell on Israel, US did not want Israel to respond. For understood reasons. And no pleads from Israel to allow at least symbolic response helped. Were not the same people leading US then? Israel is minor ally in this relationship, as far as i understand.
I think that if US will attack Iran (highly doubt that) it will consider its benefit first ,as all countries do - and it is OK.
Not to mention that i hardly see any connection between Israel and Iraq-Iran leaders talks.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation

I like Mel Gibson as an actor, but that does not mean i agree with him.
I do not think that he has to agree with me though.

Tell me, how often you turn TV and see something about Israel (7000000 population) vs something in,say, India - (1000000000 +)?
Or (since India of course never fought (Pakistan) and has no Kashmir problems) Chechnya? With a lot more dead then in my pond...
Or Darfour? The same is there.
So since you are bombarded with news (and mainly negative - which is cool since situation is problematic) from the area - do you really think that you can subconsciously have unproportionally too much attention to this place and its problems?
As in Iran - Iraq mutual issues thread....

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
Do you really think that your country has no skeletons in the closet?

certainly i won't think so. in case you wan't my opinion, every country (not nations themselves) but the governments all are evil. man shouldn't rule another, its like a blind guiding another blind.

however, im sure that my country has far less skeletons in closet than isreel does. and what comes into that hugging, yeah i guess you are right, but nevertheless you should be building peace instead of bombs.



[edit on 3-5-2008 by Geemor]

"They presented a list of names, training camps and cells linked to Iran," Haidar al-Ibadi, a member of Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki's Dawa party, told Reuters.

This is ‘proof”? Sounds more like a bill of goods to me. But not to worry, just believe everything you’re told, do everything you’re told to do, and all will be well. Unless you’re some kind of home grown terrorist of course.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


They were drove out of the land that was rightfully theirs and they took it back however they could. The so called Palestinians are Arabs from the surrounding country's that came there to work in Israel. The U.N. gave the Jews some of their land back because it was the right thing to do. It was only after them being blatantly attacked by the Arabs that let them take back the rest of their land.

Bottom line is this. The Palestinians are Arabs and they are not let back in their country's of citizenship because the other country's do not want them back because they are nothing but trouble. The countries like Jordan, Egypt and Syria have all the land they will ever need for the people and they should take them in but they don't. They do it just to be a thorn in the backside of the Jews plain and simple. They are used as pawns in a sick game and Israel should not have to deal with the crap.

Yassar Arafat made up the name Palestinians if you want to talk about facts that make their claims out and out lies. Show me all the Arab religious sites in Israel that are more than say 300 years old. You cant because not one exist. Yet they are allowed to destroy the Temple mount that is thousands of years old and build their ridiculous mosque.

Biased, No. I just know the history and whats right and wrong. I am half Native American Indian so don't even try to go there.

reply to post by Sky watcher


And who did the Israelites take the land from? If you trace the group's history, you will see that it is from the ancestors of modern day Middle-Easterners.

What makes the land "rightfully" theirs? Because they fought someone for it? So if someone fights Israel for the land and wins, it's "rightfully" theirs now, no questions asked?

Oh and I'm from one of the lost Tribes of Israel, so don't even try to go there.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by DJMessiah]

Originally posted by Sky watcher
Israel has every right to be there because they have owned the land for longer than anyone.

Not really. Israel was created in 1948. Jews, Muslims, and Christians were living in peace before Israel showed up. Everyone was getting along fine, but then the UN had to go and screw the middle east up.

Nice job.

You need to study instead of listening to twisted story's. Roman history shows solid proof of Israel belonging to the Jews.

Judah yes, Israel no. Judah was the southern kingdom that is where Jerusalem currently lies. Israel was the northern kingdom that fell under Akkadian and later Babylonian influence.

You need to read your history.

I don't have a problem with the Iranian people, Its just their crazy government. Amidinanut thinks its his job to give his Mahdi an army to defeat the U.S. and Israel. I feel sorry for you, That you are so easily fooled by pure evil. You need a serious gut check and I say that with the utmost respect.

Yes I am the one who is being fooled. I don't take to war lightly, so sue me.

[edit on 5/3/2008 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by Sky watcher
They were drove out of the land that was rightfully theirs and they took it back however they could.

Typically that would be called an invasion.

The so called Palestinians are Arabs from the surrounding country's that came there to work in Israel.

The Palestinians are Semitic peoples just like the Jews.

And is there really a pure "Jewish" bloodline anymore? I thought Jewish meant religion not an ethnic group.

The U.N. gave the Jews some of their land back because it was the right thing to do. It was only after them being blatantly attacked by the Arabs that let them take back the rest of their land.

The "Jews" were fine before Israel was created. Somehow they managed to find a way to live without Israel for a few thousand years. They would have been fine for a few more thousand, but now that there's a "Jewish homeland" they're screwed. Why would an entire religion want to concentrate on such a small area is beyond my understanding.

The "Arabs" (not Palestinians) had every right to attack an invading country. Israel was carved out of Palestine, not vice versa. The neighboring countries felt threatened by the Israeli invasion. How would you feel if someone decided to annex your neighbor's property? You'd feel violated as well.

Bottom line is this. The Palestinians are Arabs and they are not let back in their country's of citizenship because the other country's do not want them back because they are nothing but trouble.

Palestinians are Semites. At least get your facts straight. If it wasn't for Israel blockading the Gaza strip and west bank, there would be no need for the Palestinians to fight back.

If the US was invaded, we would have every right to fight back. Ditto with the Palestinians who were there before Israel was created.

The countries like Jordan, Egypt and Syria have all the land they will ever need for the people and they should take them in but they don't. They do it just to be a thorn in the backside of the Jews plain and simple. They are used as pawns in a sick game and Israel should not have to deal with the crap.

Again you're confusing Israel with the Jewish religion. Israel does not equal Judaism.

Do you realize that Palestine was the most fertile land in the area and provided the majority of food for the people? Israel now controls some of the best farmland in the middle east. That's what I'd call ethnic cleansing; the creation of intentional food scarcity.

Yassar Arafat made up the name Palestinians if you want to talk about facts that make their claims out and out lies. Show me all the Arab religious sites in Israel that are more than say 300 years old. You cant because not one exist. Yet they are allowed to destroy the Temple mount that is thousands of years old and build their ridiculous mosque.

Al-Aksa is where Mohammad ascended. That is under the Dome of the Rock. That is much older than 300 years old.

Biased, No. I just know the history and whats right and wrong. I am half Native American Indian so don't even try to go there.

Since you are native, do you not feel threatened by the white man's invasion of your homeland?

I happen to be a very small fraction native as well, Cherokee most likely but my family isn't sure. Even though I am mostly Irish/English, I feel what the Europeans did to this continent, as well as Africa, Asia, Australia, and South America is wrong.

Genocide no matter what color or who does it is still genocide.

What the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians could be considered genocide or ethnic cleansing. Just because the Nazis perpetrated a genocide against the Jewish people (among many others - Roma, Catholics, homosexuals, "freaks", etc) does not make it ok for Israel to treat the Palestinians in a similar fashion.

[edit on 5/3/2008 by biggie smalls]

Well that was some tangent...

Iran is not a threat. Simple as that.

With these stupid new missile defense systems, why is the US even afraid on nukes in the first place?

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge


Actually, the news we see about Israel is as watered down as all hell. I am not defined by USA media, btw. I am a seeker of truth, which can only be accomplished fairly by studying all angles.

I study all angles before conclusion are drawn.

AAC

Originally posted by Sky watcher

Bottom line is this. The Palestinians are Arabs and they are not let back in their country's of citizenship because the other country's do not want them back because they are nothing but trouble.

Why can't anyone else use this same logic about Israel, without the anti-semite card being played? Welcome to the double-standard no one wants to talk about.

The countries like Jordan, Egypt and Syria have all the land they will ever need for the people and they should take them in but they don't.

What is your point here? The have their own land, where they have lived for hundreds of years. For thousands of years it was Jews being expelled from countries they settled in. So welcome to another double standard.

They do it just to be a thorn in the backside of the Jews plain and simple. They are used as pawns in a sick game and Israel should not have to deal with the crap.

You are the bigot, in my opinion. Your understanding is either severely contaminated, or you are completely biased. Or both. If the palestinians are a thorn in Israel backs, Israel is the thorn in the modern world's back. If you want to debate who is more at fault, by presenting actual evidence, I'll show you things you'd probably be afraid to see. Truth will probably hurt.

Yassar Arafat made up the name Palestinians if you want to talk about facts that make their claims out and out lies. Show me all the Arab religious sites in Israel that are more than say 300 years old. You cant because not one exist. Yet they are allowed to destroy the Temple mount that is thousands of years old and build their ridiculous mosque.

Your true colors are being exposed. The muslims conquered Jerusalem and built whatever they wanted. Long live that Mosque.

Biased, No. I just know the history and whats right and wrong. I am half Native American Indian so don't even try to go there.

Nice try. To you for obvious reasons.

AAC

[edit on 3-5-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

Let's not forget Israel is a democratic country where Iran is not. The problem here in my opinion lies in the fact that in Irans eyes infidels must be killed. That is the main problem with the nuclear program. They also are liars when they say they arent funding and training fighters in Iran to fight in Iraq. To the guy who says Iran has a right to have nukes when they have Israel surrounded right now with Hezbollah and Hamas is a total liberal loonatic who sounds like he was educated in one of the US's own anti american schools and feels the need to nit pick every word with his so called vast knowlege but not seeing the big picture of who is truely evil. IRAN.

reply to post by jasonhb


What has Iran ever done as a country, to anyone? If isolated groups in Iran train and fund militias to try to counter the invaders upon their interests abroad, so be it. Isn't that why we are in Iraq killing civilians left and right?

I don't think we should be there period. The fact that you think they believe all infidels should be killed is ignorant and dangerous to reiterate. Iran is very pro-western, what do you even know about the country itself?

You are the type that is clever enough to point out other's possible shortcomings, but not intelligent enough to seek out the broad truth yourself. Making your opinions into facts is irresponsible. IMO, as always.

AAC

not a surprise. Just like what US did in Afghanistan 20 years ago. I would say they are stupid if those Iranian didn't do anything in Iraq. I also believe Bush & Co. should have considered this before the invasion into Iraq. Bush is a smart guy, just not that lucky.

Originally posted by AnAbsoluteCreation
reply to post by jasonhb

 

What has Iran ever done as a country, to anyone? If isolated groups in Iran train and fund militias to try to counter the invaders upon their interests abroad, so be it. Isn't that why we are in Iraq killing civilians left and right?

I don't think we should be there period. The fact that you think they believe all infidels should be killed is ignorant and dangerous to reiterate. Iran is very pro-western, what do you even know about the country itself?

You are the type that is clever enough to point out other's possible shortcomings, but not intelligent enough to seek out the broad truth yourself. Making your opinions into facts is irresponsible. IMO, as always.

AAC

The reason Iran has not attacked anyboy is beacuse they have allways been a 3rd world isloted country until the days of the Shaw. Hard to attack another country on a donkey with koran in hand. If you think isolated groups are training and funding Sard's militia you are obviously looking away from reality. Iran is a police state. The types of weapons they are finding in Iraq arent browning 22's bought from the local gun shop my friend. These are military grade weapons straight from the Revolutairy gaurd. I would go ahead and present facts as to Irans government wanting to kill infidels but I'm sure you are smart enough to either know it allready or you are are just in your own headspace and cant admit it.