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The Hegelian Dialectic or Why I think McCain Will Win

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posted on May, 2 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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I've recently finished Jim Marrs' Rule by Secrecy and he had mentioned something I'd never really heard mentioned in conspiracy discussion before. It is called the Hegelian Dialectic and I'll try to explain it as simply as I can without getting bogged down in academic babble. Many people have heard Alex Jones refer to something he calls "Problem-Reaction-Solution", this, as I understand it, is really a simpler version of the Hegelian Dialectic which states, basically, the formula of Antithesis+Thesis=Synthesis.

This is a fairly simple concept to understand, the Thesis is basically the current situation for any problem or issue, it's the status quo or the current desires of the people involved. The Antithesis is something that opposes the Thesis, it's any sort of issue, problem or idea that opposes, is opposite to or vehemently against the current situation. The struggle between the Thesis and Antithesis will, according to Hegel, result in a Synthesis of the two. This Synthesis, while being considered a natural result can also be proposed as a solution to the struggle between Antithesis and Thesis.

While still early in my research I believe this theory or equation is the key to understanding much of what is going on around us. It seems we are constantly surrounded by one Antithesis or another seeking to change or destroy the Thesis we currently live in. Whether it be the struggle for minority rights or the current War on Drugs or War on Terror we see our current life in America opposed by social or political movements that never quite die out but rather will create a Synthesis composed of ideas and practices from both the Thesis and Antithesis.

This is what I believe is happening with the Democratic primaries. At first we had two possible candidates, Obama and Clinton, who seemed more or less on equal ground. Despite Clinton's shady past it seems that Obama is the one being painted as a radical. He is, after all, the least "American" of the two, what with his Middle Eastern sounding name, his connection to Rev. Wright and the fact that he is a person of color. Obama has also been painted as the candidate demanding the most change so not only his he outwardly "radical" but he seems to be the same in his ideas and possible policies.

On the other hand we have Clinton, who, when compared directly to Obama does seem closer to our Thesis or status quo. She is white, upper class and fairly conservative in her life style if not her politics. She is painted as a cold, serious, well spoken politician who seems to get along well with the "little people". We also have her advantage of sharing the name, and therefore the memory and reputation, of her husband ex president Bill Clinton.

I believe that Clinton will win the Democratic nomination and run against McCain because she will seem to be the less radical candidate when compared with Obama. She will seem less threatening to our Thesis or status quo but will adopt some policies and ideas from Obama to help increase her approval among Democrat voters. In so doing she will become the Synthesis of the struggle between radical change (Antithesis) and current situation (Thesis).

I believe we can apply the same equation of A+T=S (a coincidence I swear) to the race between Clinton and McCain. I feel that when compared to Clinton McCain seems the closest to, if not the embodiment, of the ideal American candidate. As far as the media is concerned we haven't heard much by way of scandal relating to McCain. He is a white male with an American name and he's a war hero to boot. Clinton's past is fertile ground for a smear campaign and I believe it will be easy to paint her as the Antithesis in this race when compared to McCain.

However, as we have seen in past electoral debates, both Democrat and Republican began saying much the same thing when asked of the main topics. With out too much conspiratorial theorizing we can assume that this is a result of the candidates attempting to sway voters from one side to the other. There will be many "pressing issues" during this next election, the economy, the War on Terror, the war in Iraq, and the environment just to name a few.

I feel that, during debates and in the media, Clinton will appear as too radical a change for the majority of Americans for one reason or another. I feel that McCain will appeal to a broader majority and even more so if he were to adopt some of Clinton's less radical ideas and promises. In this way McCain will become the Synthesis and therefore our next president.

McCain is the perfect choice for the powers that be, is guaranteed not to shake the boat and will appeal to the public for a slower "more rational" end to the war in Iraq and the War on Terror as a whole. Being a military man he will appeal to the apparent Fascistic desire in government. His environmental policies will most likely appeal more to Big Business and he will almost definitely continue the current administrations legal and constitutional infringements.

I believe that by using Hegel's theory of Antithesis+Thesis=Synthesis the American public will be led to believe they are choosing McCain which will result in another four year continuation of the current administration's policies thereby securing the power of the people currently in charge and the protection of their assets for another presidential term. This is why I believe that Clinton will beat Obama for the Democratic nomination then run against and lose to McCain.

This is just my prediction and the process by which I came about it, I suppose it's not a very surprising prediction but at least I have a fairly firm foundation for my ideas. I was wondering what my fellow ATSers might think of my theory. I applied it to a lesser extent and correctly predicted Clinton's win in Pennsylvania but I doubt that win was much of a surprise either. I'm currently attempting to apply the Hegelian Dialectic to other aspects of life and possibly on a personal basis as well but am still early in my attempts.

Any thoughts on what I've said or predicted would be greatly appreciated as would any other examples of the application of A+T=S. I am, of course, willing to be wrong about all this but I think it will be fun to watch and see if I was right.




posted on May, 4 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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No replies huh? Am I wrong or just crazy? Oh well, either way, this will serve as good proof that I predicted McCain's win if it does happen.

By the way, I'm not partisan, I hate all the candidates and the system itself, I just feel this is how it will unfold



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Well written post Sf, but if you’re just now hearing about the use of dialectics I have to wonder if you’re not a youngster. I first read about Hegel’s little proposition in the late 70’s, and of course it was probably being used since the days of the town herald. So know you know. If you control both sides of the argument, you control the argument, plain and simple. And of course if you control most of the media outlets, the rest is academic.

Now as to your assertion that McSame is the chosen selection for the next Pres, I couldn’t disagree more. I think it’s Billary. All you have to do is leave the MSM on for any length of time. You don’t even have to have the sound up. Just look at the images of Billary that are shown compared to those of McSame. Billary is always presented in a much more favorable light. Of course it’s tough to make McSame look good, and that just strengthens my point. The last ugly Pres was GHWB, and he was just riding Reagan’s coattails. Look at how the media is pounding Obama over his pastor. Now you could say that Billary stands less of a chance against the R than Obama, and that’s why he’s getting slammed, but I don’t buy it. Bush is the most unpopular Pres ever, and McSame has gone out of his way to associate himself with Bush, even hugging him in a most uncomfortable to watch fashion on TV. I think Billary is the chosen this time around, but I am puzzled a bit by Obama. I think that perhaps something bad is planned for Obama since the races have been getting along much too well for the liking of the divide and conquer elite.

edit for usuall crap

[edit on 4-5-2008 by resistor]

[edit on 4-5-2008 by resistor]



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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Well, I am admittedly rather young and was unfortunately not around for the seventies. I have known about other dialectics before, after all they've been around since Plato, but I believe it's Hegel's own dialectic in particular of the others that I feel fits so well with what we see going on around us. The idea that the struggle between a thesis and an antithesis results in a synthesis is much more complex than simply "controlling both sides of an argument" which admittedly is rather effective as well. I believe Hegel's dialectic refers more to the natural process of the creation of a synthesis through the aforementioned struggle. If synthesis is a natural outcome then one need only invent the Antithesis and wait for the resulting Synthesis.

I chose McCain for almost the same reason you believe it will be Clinton. Clinton and Obama have been played up to such a sickening degree, they are more media stars than politicians these days. The media is clearly painting Clinton as the choice over the more radical Obama yet we hear little to nothing about McCain. Coupled with the fact that McCain was pretty much a sure bet when it came to the Republican nomination I feel that McCain will seem the more "reasonable, logical" choice within a few months.

I think that if you apply Hegel's dialectic to this election and then project further to the actual presidential race it would seem more likely that Hillary, the media darling that she is, is not going to fair well against McCain. I have already heard plenty of people tell me they'd rather just vote for McCain than Clinton or Obama and I've already heard the media mentiont hat some of McCain's policies mirror Clinton's to a greater or lesser extent.

I believe McCain is the Synthesis desired by those in charge and I am still keeping my bets squared on him. It will be fun to watch and see if I'm right.

P.S Thanks for your response, it was getting lonely in here lol



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 09:34 PM
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reply to post by resistor
 

Quote"I think that perhaps something bad is planned for Obama since the races have been getting along much too well for the liking of the divide and conquer elite"

I fear that. I fear it only because if you look at the socia-economic brew that could boil a few tempers..(ie. high gas prices, high food prices, general goverment fear and agitation)....we could have a few Rodney King days on our hand! Every body gets pissed about gas, bread and shelter!
It could be a perfect storm. Look out!

I think, at the very least, it will be McCain...who I like.



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 


Even though your post wasn't directed at me I'd like to say that I don't feel as though the African American community really accepts Obama, definitely not to the extent the accepted Rodney King. No matter what he does or says, Obama is still of the upper class, he's not "one of us" to a great many Americans for a number of reasons, and I certainly don't believe he can relate to the plight of urban minorities.



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 10:42 PM
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I don't want to derail the thread into a colored vs. white thing. Both ends can wag the tail.

My interest is how far Bush will push, who will be McCains go to people, who will be his cabinet and who it is that brings these people together?

How deep does the gangster culture go?

McCain, in a very "old" way, reminds me of Ronald Reagen. I liked him as well. The people that surrounded Reagen came as a bit of shock to him, I believe , as well as to me (in the way it would a 20 year old).



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 10:46 PM
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Well, since ATS wont give me a 'reply to' I'll make my own.

Reply to Shadowflux's last post.


Nothing wrong with youth, and I dare say that I wouldn’t have been nearly as well spoken. About the only thing you missed with the 70’s was the last of the truly organic music, but that’s a matter of perspective as well. I agree that dialectics are a somewhat natural process, and one that was certainly observed from the beginning, but we are talking about manipulation of the masses here right? Hegel after all only codified that which had been practiced forever. You make good points in favor of your selection of Hillary as the chosen, all I can say is, watch and learn grasshopper.


Reply to wr:

You actually like McSame?!?!?! I'm, I'm speechless. No wait, I know. Everybody sing! Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran........


Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by whiteraven
 


Even though your post wasn't directed at me I'd like to say that I don't feel as though the African American community really accepts Obama, definitely not to the extent the accepted Rodney King. No matter what he does or says, Obama is still of the upper class, he's not "one of us" to a great many Americans for a number of reasons, and I certainly don't believe he can relate to the plight of urban minorities.


Well, since the reply function isn't working I might as well quote. You do realize that like 80% of the black vote is going to Obama right?



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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I don't really like any of them.

I don't think it matters which one wins. No matter who wins, so far as the common American man is concerned, not much will change. The big machine needs to be fed.

Now, so far as McCain is concerned , I think he has a "hero" complex and may try some interesting things. It just depends who gets around him.

5 to 7 years in a ringer in Viet Nam is a better education then any Yale or Harvard degree is going to do.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 05:22 AM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 


Those years in the Hanoi Hilton actually worry me. Isn't that the kind of thing that leads to mental instability? Do we really want a guy who was tortured for so long with his finger on the button? And at his age, will he remember the difference between North Korea and North Vietnam?



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 11:19 AM
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I have been told by some friends back home in Oklahoma that he is still very lucid! HA...seems funny just to argue this about somebody running for office.


Nevertheless, from my very humble opinion...and thats all it really is...Barack, if elected will be shut down the way they shut down Carter (at best) or (at worst) he may be the new Jack Kennedy. (I hope not..I do like the fact that he is putting a new face on America for the world to see as a result of his race for the Whitehouse)

Clintons, if they get a hold of this mess that Dick/Bush have created will basically carry on with the USA as it is. They will be far more savy about it but they are great friends with the Bush family, long time partners in crime, as they say, with the same goals that Bush/Dick have, with a twist on the MO.

McCain, I have been told, hates Bush and family, hates the direction they are taking the country, sides with people in the military who hate the way Bush has abused his powers and he may have a few surprises up his sleeve for the neocons.

For example, a peace lobby group known as Peace Action, which is a far left group, shows McCain with good support, equivelent to Clinton and many other Democrats. Below is a voting record with issues in favour of
some very liberal causes.
Quote
AZ U.S. Senate Sr John McCain Republican 50
IL U.S. House 2 Jesse Jackson Democratic 64
IL U.S. Senate Jr Barack Obama Democratic 67
KS U.S. Senate Sr Samuel Brownback Republican 22
NY U.S. Senate Jr Hillary Clinton Democratic 56 "
www.votesmart.org...

You can see that, so far as this left wing group is concerned, McCain has supported them as much as or more then some Democrats. Almost all Republicans voted "Nay" in regard to this group.
RON PAUL being the exception.."TX U.S. House 14 Ronald Paul Republican 93 "
If you study more of his voting record and compare it to a Neocon voting record you can observe his fortitude in protecting elements of freedom that neocons find revolting.

Look at seperation of Church and State, pro choice etc.

In regards to his stint as a POW those are lessons that go much deeper then anything you read in a book. It creates a empathy toward those who suffer and serve in the military, and those who suffer as a result of wars.

Empathy is lacking with Bush/Dick as a result of their coddled, silver spoon, pathetic lives. Those in the military see this and hate it. (so I have been told)

Truth be told my veiws side with Ron Paul out and out but he does not stand a chance.

(edit for spelling and other crap)

[edit on 6-5-2008 by whiteraven]



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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Well, I'll be writing Ron Paul in if necessary. My conscience will not allow me to vote for any of the three stooges. As to the silver spoon thing, McCain is the son of an Admiral, grandson of an admiral and named after both. He's from a family that is as inside as it gets. All he would change would be what the globalists want changed.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 11:16 PM
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I admire the fact that you will vote for Ron Paul because you think it is the right thing for you to do.

I am otherwise convinced. I am very unsure concerning our political state of affairs. I do not believe the President of the United States of America has as much power as is credited him. Other people pull the strings.

Look at Nancy Pelosi. She is all firecracker as she takes front and center stage on the hill yet when the tire hits the pavement she does nothing. Nothing. Worse then a lame duck.

Something or someone scared the firecracker out of her and she had to fall in line.

Bush and Cheney are some how connected to whoever controls the puppet strings.....less of a conflict of interest between them and the "all powerful wizards"

Even Ronald Reagan backed off a lot after the assasenation


[edit on 6-5-2008 by whiteraven]



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