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Is belief enough to be "saved"?

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posted on May, 9 2008 @ 07:26 PM
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It's actually very simple.

Belief in Christ as Lord and Savior is ONE of the things that are required.

The SECOND is a good heart condition.

BOTH are requirements of salvation.

For more information on this and scripture references you can visit the link in my signature line.




posted on May, 10 2008 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 




Belief in Christ as Lord and Savior is ONE of the things that are required.



Required?


Required by who? By you? Who are you?



posted on May, 10 2008 @ 06:46 AM
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Originally posted by Excitable_Boy
reply to post by ReginaAdonnaAaron
 




Belief in Christ as Lord and Savior is ONE of the things that are required.



Required?


Required by who? By you? Who are you?


yes yes, youve made you view quite clear.

you´ve also (in past threads) made your view of the bible clear, im not going to reason with you from the scriptures as you dont really see the the authority behind them.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 




you´ve also (in past threads) made your view of the bible clear, im not going to reason with you from the scriptures as you dont really see the the authority behind them.



Can't you have a discussion or debate without quoting scripture? Do you have any thoughts of your own?



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 10:36 AM
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Can't you have a discussion or debate without quoting scripture? Do you have any thoughts of your own?


yes i do, but if it comes to worshiping god, dont you think its at least prudent to get his opinion on the matter? or do you feel god´s opinion is inconsequential?

btw, if you want to argue about the bible being god´s word or written by man, fine, start a thread, i would love to participate.



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


the majority of those that think themselves to be "saved now" do not believe Messiahs words in matthew5:17-19-------think not that I came to abolish the law or the prophets;I did not come to abolish but to fulfill=make more binding.
for truely I say to you,until heaven and earth pass away,not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the law until all is accomplished.

whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments,and teaches others to do the same,shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven;
but whoever keeps and teaches them,he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
how much plainer could Messiah say it that we are expected to keep G-D's laws?
the 1 that annuls one of the least of the commandments shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven------called not necessarily be there in G-Ds kingdom unless they eventually repent.
the first 4 commandments of exodus 20 tell us how to love G-D and the last 6 how to love our neighbors.
the 1 commandment that the majority of this earths inhabitants think to be the least is the 4th commandment------the 7th day sabbath as well as the 7 annual sabbaths as found in leviticus 23------all despised as being jewish when in fact G-D says that they are His sabbaths(leviticus23:2)



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 04:50 AM
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how much plainer could Messiah say it that we are expected to keep G-D's laws?


i agree, but there are many that take the PC view that god loves everyone and and everyone that so much as believes in christ will be saved, but according to the bible, its not enough



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 09:05 PM
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Hi miriam! I love your heart for the Lord.

Ephesians 2:8-10


For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.


I agree with you miriam that one will repent from sin once saved. It is the Holy Spirit inside of us that convicts us when we sin. It is a daily struggle for me sometimes and I often fail. Don't you? I find that sanctification is a process not an event and I must continue to ask God for forgiveness.

I think the problem with the view you are espousing is what is the source of this repentant heart? Yourself or God? Notice in the verse above Paul says "and this not from yourselves, it is a gift from God". I will argue the reason you and I struggle and fight temptation is not from ourselves but from the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

I think the way to view someone that claims salvation and then returns to unrepentant sin is that they were never actually saved and indwelt by the spirit. For if they were indwelt by the spirit they would feel overwhelming conviction that would demand repentance.

I don't think it is possible to lose your salvation. However, you can be deceived into believing you are saved when you are not. Here's a verse that proves you can not lose your salvation. In John 10:28-30, Jesus says:

“I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."


Thus I feel safe in saying "Once saved always saved". Works are evidence of salvation - not a requirement - so that no one may boast.



[edit on 5/12/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 05:42 AM
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


my english fails when im sick. /warning

if i understand you correct, then i agree.

in ephesians, grace can also be translated mercy. the apostle was saying that good works wont save you, god´s mercy will

so i agree when you say ¨Works are evidence of salvation¨

but if they are not a requirement, why is so much emphasis placed on obeying jesus? (im not going to quote the slew of scriptures since they are already quoted)

i think that the fact that there is emphasis is because obediance isnt just a display of holy spirit it is a personal requirement too. yes holy spirit helps,

ephesians 5:9 - (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth


so if a person has holy spirit, you will see those qualities

but, he must be obediant to continue to recieve holy spirit (so personal responsibility)

titus 3:5 [5] Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

so yes it is a process.

but as for ¨once saved always saved¨

1 corinthians 5:11 (putting away the wicked person)

why would you have to be careful who you associate with if it didnt hurt your relationship with god?

Matt 10:22 (endure to the end)

it wouldnt make sense to put that scripture in there unless it was possible to fall out of good standing

1 cor 9:24 (running the race)

it was a warning that people do stop running

revelation 1 and 2 i believe is Jesus talkign to the congregation. all evidence points to them being authentic congregations. people saved with holy spirit. yet some laxed abit in the faith and thier works. jesus does give a few warnings about being cut off.

2 peter 2:20 - peter is talking those who are saved. not like jude 4 that talks about people creeping in.

it implies that you can work against holy spirit. and if you do, you lose it



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 08:24 AM
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Disclaimer: I'm atheist but not of the Abrahamic Faiths. I have minor biblical scholar and scriptural skills. Also I'm not a scientific/medical/legal expert in any field.

Going straight to the heart of the topic of the O.P. I can see how I can believe in the "law of the land" but also that I must follow it as well to be not deemed a criminal worthy of punishment and I think this is what miriam0566 was trying to imply (please correct me if I am wrong miriam0566) that the bible (a book of laws) is implying.

Personal Disclosure: Unfortunately I can provide no multiple scriptures to prove this (scripturally only though!) one way or the other but I feel that it is an apt and/or valid POV. As for me and my GODDESS, well nothing I can do will save me as she doesn't do that and she ultimately devours everything (OUCH!) but I'm cool with that and it doesn't faze me too much! Seriously I wish Goodluck for all you Christians hoping and praying for salvation. I would be happy if you all get saved by your GOD.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 11:01 AM
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I would have to say no because belief does not get you anywhere. Belief is just what you are told.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 11:11 AM
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reply to post by whitesatan
 


Unbelief does not get you anywhere. Unbelief is just what you ignore.



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 12:41 PM
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This is the way I see the bible tell us that That we have to come to God by faith. To believe in God and jesus is by faith. The evil that we go throw is by faith. The the bible tells us this

FAITH WITHOUT WORK MEANS NOTHING.
We can have faith in God all we want. We can believe he is alive all we want. But if we dont work for God, what are we. We are called to be soldiers of christ. What type of soldier are you if you dont have faith in your leader to lead you. What type of soldier are you if you dont work to be a soldier to pick up the sword and fight the good fight. Works means more than giveing to the poor and helping those that need to be help. ITs means to preach and fight the devil. We have to fight the devil by temptation. To be a good soldier we have to have faith first and works with it.

[edit on 13-5-2008 by slymattb]



posted on May, 13 2008 @ 12:45 PM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


umm kinda

btw, my name is miriam, you can leave out the numbers lol



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 12:48 PM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


then my question to you, what about the thief on the cross with Jesus? Jesus said, i say to you today, surely you will be with me in paradise. Was he not on the cross for his thievery? The truth is that God judges the things in a person's heart. True faith inspires works, not because they are needed for our salvation, that takes away from Jesus' sacrifice, but because we wish to love to others because He loved us first. Hearing the gospel and believing makes a person want to follow His ways, and that is what makes the faith alive. Works are the fruit, and our faith is the tree. That is what Jesus meant when He spoke about the tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 04:38 PM
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Originally posted by one_man24
then my question to you, what about the thief on the cross with Jesus? Jesus said, i say to you today, surely you will be with me in paradise. Was he not on the cross for his thievery? The truth is that God judges the things in a person's heart. True faith inspires works, not because they are needed for our salvation, that takes away from Jesus' sacrifice, but because we wish to love to others because He loved us first. Hearing the gospel and believing makes a person want to follow His ways, and that is what makes the faith alive. Works are the fruit, and our faith is the tree. That is what Jesus meant when He spoke about the tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire.


acts 24:[15] And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

the thief was going to be resurrected whether or not he asked jesus to remember him, infact the second criminal likely too will be resurrected. this is the resurrection of the ¨unjust¨ or ¨unrighteous¨

however the thief recognized that something needed to change. now he will be able to prove himself after he is resurrected. then he will be saved. not when he died.



posted on Jan, 29 2009 @ 10:23 PM
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Originally posted by miriam0566

however the thief recognized that something needed to change. now he will be able to prove himself after he is resurrected. then he will be saved. not when he died.


Miriam - if you only knew what it really means to "lift up the son of man" you would know that nothing is impossible with God, and you would fully understand what the actual power behind the resurrection of the living is. God is the Father of the living and the dead know nothing. The Living KNOW THINGS and they know that the thief is with Jesus in paradise. Your physical body is alive, but your spiritual body has not yet been awakened. When the Holy Spirit lifts up in you - you lift up the son of man and you are BORN AGAIN and it is beautiful and perfect.

God is at work to this day but you have to take off the blinders and be open to the reality of his Spirit physically moving inside you. He wants to show YOU the full extent of his love. You quote scripture well, but you shut the door in his face, when it comes to accepting testimony from others.

The dead know nothing but the living know things.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 02:47 AM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
God is at work to this day but you have to take off the blinders and be open to the reality of his Spirit physically moving inside you. He wants to show YOU the full extent of his love. You quote scripture well, but you shut the door in his face, when it comes to accepting testimony from others.

The dead know nothing but the living know things.


1 tim 4:1 - But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,

not all testimony is inspired by god. if the holy spirit did in fact bare witness to you, then you would know this.

moreover, the spirit would not conflict with writings that were inspired by it.

yes, i quote scripture, because its my authority. the holy spirit doesnt need to directly tell me the will of god because i can read it.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 04:03 AM
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Originally posted by miriam0566
yes, i quote scripture, because its my authority. the holy spirit doesnt need to directly tell me the will of god because i can read it.


Sweety there is nothing wrong with quoting a scripture, but you need to understand that the Bible itself is just a seed that inspires the true spirit within you. The words on the page themselves are not the truth but just the guide to within. That is what it is pointing to. You cannot look at the words in the Bible as an idol, but more like a sign-post. It will point you in the right direction, but it is up to your own person to walk and find yourself.

Just thought maybe you needed to hear that tonight.



posted on Jan, 30 2009 @ 09:50 AM
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reply to post by miriam0566
 


the thief will prove himself after being resurrected? that sounds an awful lot like the theology of works righteousness to me. listen, you can't do anything to "prove" yourself to God. you have seen numerous verses showing that grace and mercy are gifts from God, and verses that clearly state no man cometh to the Father, but by the son, not to mention verses that we all deserve death, are unholy, sinful, etc etc. Jesus doesn't tell the thief "oh, I know you will prove yourself when you are resurrected." he tells him that he will be in paradise. He was saved by his faith. God judged his heart.



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