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Is VISA (V) the mark of the Beast?

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Topic started on 2-5-2008 @ 06:37 AM by cutbothways

Imagine all the fuel being used right now, to operate our gigantic war machine.
Most military vehicles use diesel, and refined diesel for jet aircraft (jp-8, for example).

Remember when diesel used to cost way less than regular fuel?
How did diesel suddenly get more expensive than regular?

My opinion? It's one giant conspiracy to rid the people of their cash.
It's all being sucked up by computers, and changed into electrons.

Where were the first credit card accepting machines introduced?
At the gas pump. Each transaction takes a little bit of that money, and
turns it into electrons, in some vast computer system.

Now every network has a brain, and I would suggest the electronic
money system is no exception.

If anyone has seen Lindsay Williams video "The Energy Non-Crisis" , if half of what he says is true, we are looking right down the barrel, and the gun is loaded.

Now, I want to introduce you to the VISA Chaordic system invented by Dee Hock. Yes, Dee Hock is the founder of VISA (V), who recently introduced their stock at $40 share, and now it in the $70's. Here's how important VISA is.

There are only 26 letters in the alphabet. So there are 26 companies in the market, with a single letter ticker symbol. And VISA get's the V. Not Verizon, some other company that starts with V, but VISA.

To understand VISA, one must read this article.

Featured Guest Speaker

Dee W. Hock, Founder and CEO Emeritus: VISA
Founder and President: The Chaordic Alliance

Posted: October 27, 1998

The Birth of the Chaordic Century:
Out of Control and Into Order (Part 1 of 2)
...
By chaord, I mean (1) any autocatalytic, self-regulating, adaptive, nonlinear, complex organism, organization or system, whether physical, biological or social, the behavior of which harmoniously exhibits characteristics of both order and chaos; (2) an entity whose behavior exhibits observable patterns and probabilities not governed or explained by the behavior of its parts. By chaordic, I mean essentially the same; the fundamental organizing principle of nature and evolution. The word has become addictive, so please forgive me it's use, even though it may sound a bit strange in the beginning.
...
Today, it doesn't take much thought to realize we are in the midst of a global epidemic of institutional failure. Not just failure in the limited sense of collapse, such as the Soviet Union or corporate bankruptcy, but the more pervasive, pernicious form: institutions increasingly unable to achieve the purpose for which they were created, yet, continuing to exist as they increasingly devour resources, demean people and destroy the environment.

So here, Hock establishes that this "Chaordic System" basically means "Order out of Chaos". Sound familiar?

Next, he calls it and entity, a living organism. I call it "The Beast".

And then he tells the reader that he understands perfectly how the common man/woman is being used by "institutions"

BankAmericard began in the nineteen fifties as a California service of the Bank of America. In 1966, concerned with erosion of their customers, five California banks launched MasterCharge. In turn, Bank of America began franchising BankAmericard. Other large U.S. banks launched proprietary cards. Action and reaction exploded. Banks dropped tens of millions of unsolicited cards on an unsuspecting public, while television screamed such nonsense as "the card you won't go crazy with," a challenge the public accepted with enormous enthusiasm.

Within two years, the infant industry was out of control.
...
I asked three others to join me to address a single question based upon a single assumption. If anything imaginable was possible, if there were no constraints whatever, what would be the nature -- not the structure, but the nature, based on biological concepts and principles -- of an ideal organization to create the world's premier system for the exchange of monetary value?

In the above excerpt, Mr. Hock really get's to the heart of it. Create a system of money exchange, that feeds itself, and is readily accepted by the consumer, all the while the system grows on it's own, without needing a giant infrastructure in place.

Slowly, painfully, as we worked with such notions, a dozen or so fundamental principles emerged, a sort of institutional genetic code, if you will.
...
In the beginning, no one, self included, thought such an organization could be brought into being, but the principles pulled us on. There followed an intense, two-year effort involving a great many people and disciplines. In June 1970, we proved ourselves wrong and the VISA Chaord came into being.

Remember, in 1971 we went off the Gold Standard money system.

Six hundred million people now use VISA products at twelve million merchant locations, producing $1.2 trillion of business annually, certain to rise to $2 trillion by the end of the decade, since compound annual growth exceeds 20%, with no end in sight.

This was in 1998!

A staff of less than a thousand scattered throughout the world coordinated this system as it skyrocketed past a hundred billion dollars a year. They received modest salaries and could never acquire wealth for their services. Yet, without consultants, those people selected the VISA name and completed the largest trademark conversion in commercial history in a third the time anticipated. And they built the prototype of the present communications systems in ninety days for less than $25,000; systems that now clear more electronic transactions in a week than the entire U.S. Federal Reserve system does in a year.

The beginnings of the internet?

Are you beginning to see the size of the VISA system yet?

And finally I will end this post with this excerpt

I believed then and believe today that we were creating an archetype, however clumsy, of organizations of the next century. I believed then and believe today that the power inherent in chaordic concepts of organization is immensely greater than the success of VISA would indicate, for we did not get it a quarter right and it has regressed substantially since.

www.parshift.com...

Please read all of the link above. It has two pages, and might be the most important business concept ever introduced, and is important to understand
as I introduce the next post.

The mark of the beast.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by cutbothways]

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reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 07:13 AM by cutbothways

So the bible explains the "mark of the beast"

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Revelation 13:16-18

It's the number OF a man. And his number is Six Hundred, THREE SCORE and six.

Now no one can buy or sell, unless they have the mark (trademark?) or the name of the beast (VISA) or the number of his name (666)

The reason Three score is used in the bible, is because it means 60. But, it also means, your credit score. Think about it, your credit score is three numbers, reported by three companies, and Georgia even has and AVERAGE credit score of, you guessed it, 666.

So, hidden inside the number of the beast, is a subtle antichrist mockery.

Now lets examine VISA. There are several ways to get 666 out of the name.

VI=6 in Roman Numerals.

S=6 or sigma. See 6 Sigma, a business training system.

A. The letter a is represents the pyramid. Notice, the top is flat, because the capstone is missing. The horizontal line, represents the 33rd degree. 3+3=6

The word VISA comes from the latin word "visiage" which means "to give/have a visible mark for passage".

When a foreigner applies for a VISA, they get a "stamp" on their passport, allowing passage.

Here is a link, showing how scientists are working hard to come up with a way to implant credit cards in our bodies.
www.technovelgy.com...

But is suggest the mark will either be burned (branded with brand name logo) into the skin, or tatooed.

A small mark can contain tons of info through the shading/color of each pixel. See3D Barcode.

I have been researching this for months. While I was researching, I came across this bizarre prediction on the internet supposedly from 1994
www.surfingtheapocalypse.net...

[edit on 2-5-2008 by cutbothways]

[edit on 2-5-2008 by cutbothways]

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 07:22 AM by zerbot565

dont recall where i heard it but i reacall the mark of the beast being nero'´s face on a roman coin ,

and that the 666 was acutrly 667

and if you are realy speculative the real mark of the beast should be 777 since crowly was the beast

but yeah barcodes and all kinds of tracking devices use a simular pattern to recognize and item from an other

but one thing i do ponder about is what is all this self caused profesies

imean if it is the mark of the beast why would we want to adopt his mark on our goods ? kinda idiotic in my opinion , like wise the israeli state , if that is the final resting ground before all hell brakes loose why even build it ,

talk about self afflicted idiocy

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 07:44 AM by cutbothways

Now, like I said in the previous post, the are other ways to get 666 from VISA.

But I suggest that the combination of Roman, Greek and Egyptian in one number would be where the interest lies.

Having said that, V is a very important letter in the underworld.

V is the 22nd letter in the alphabet.
See The Power of 22.

V also stands for the letter Vau in Hebrew.

And recently the movie "V for Vendetta" was introduced

But most of all, I believe V stands for Apophis, or Set, or the Devil, which actually means D'evil, or "of evil"

These three letters also are Qabalistically and visually/formally linked to the principle dynamic structure of all Western Mysticism, that of the Death-Rebirth Cycle. According to The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn:

L == Isis Mourning (Osiris slain by Set)
V == Apophis Triumphant (the Rule of Death)
X == Osiris Risen (dead-yet-alive, to rule in the new order)

perdurabo10.tripod.com...

Apophis may refer to:

* Apep, an Egyptian demon
* Apepi I, a Hyksos pharaoh of Lower Egypt
* Apophis (Stargate), a Stargate SG-1 character based on the Egyptian demon
* 99942 Apophis, a near-Earth asteroid

en.wikipedia.org...

So, I have shown a plethera of information here. It's as easy as connecting the dots, in my opinion.

But after all, it is just a conspiracy "theory" based on factual information, assemble in a potential format.

AboveTopSecret.com is advertising supported.

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 07:58 AM by cutbothways

Originally posted by zerbot565
dont recall where i heard it but i reacall the mark of the beast being nero'´s face on a roman coin ,

I would suggest that we have current leaders, like Kim Jong-Il that make Nero look like a boyscout.

and that the 666 was acutrly 667

This is to throw us off. I've heard 616 too. But the bible (Revelation) is the introducer of the number, and the word score is established early in the bible as 20. So threescore is 60. Not much room for intrepretation there.

and if you are realy speculative the real mark of the beast should be 777 since crowly was the beast

Crowley was a fool, a simple pawn. An important fool to the occult, but no where near powerful enough. Might have been the first beast though, which ushered in the age of the second beast, of which we are talking about.

but yeah barcodes and all kinds of tracking devices use a simular pattern to recognize and item from an other

but one thing i do ponder about is what is all this self caused profesies

Bingo. Those that want an Armageddon, have a reason to fulfill it don't they.
There are those looking for the Rapture, and those looking for Rule of one man, the antichrist. I would suggest the current head antichrist is a woman, the queen of England, and prince Charles is the Antichrist.

After all, they claim to come from the line of King David of the bible.

imean if it is the mark of the beast why would we want to adopt his mark on our goods ? kinda idiotic in my opinion , like wise the israeli state , if that is the final resting ground before all hell brakes loose why even build it ,

talk about self afflicted idiocy

That's the beauty (horror) of the VISA Chaordic system. It would have never work if people had not readily accepted it.

People have been duped under the guise of convenience.

Remember when you got a discount at the pump for paying cash? Now they make you prepay, as if you are not trustworthy.

Life Takes VISA!

YouTube Link

[edit on 2-5-2008 by cutbothways]

[edit on 2-5-2008 by cutbothways]

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 08:41 AM by cutbothways

So, if you've read to this point, and still, your not convinced, let me show you another little excerpt.

Joel D. Getzendanner
Founding Board Member
The Chaordic Alliance

Although there is a certain elegance to this argument, looking back from where we are today, it seems ludicrous. But what actually happened was even more outlandish. Who could have imagined that at the beginning of the 21st century, the most powerful "currency" on the planet would be small pieces of plastic called "credit cards." Acceptable in almost every country, they are not backed by gold, or uranium, or even any central government. Instead, they are backed by a collective agreement among an enormous number of banks to guarantee the transactions, and to pass them seamlessly between the merchant's bank and the cardholder's bank. Money is no longer paper or coinage. Money is now nothing more than electrons and photons flying around world at the speed of light.

www.chaordic.org...

Dee Hock and Visa

Ironically, the organization that helped unseat gold (and that upstart uranium!) as the dominant global currency also may provide a clue about how our social institutions will transform themselves in the years ahead.

On the one hand, the ideas that gave rise to Visa were very old, embodying principles of governance that would be recognized by America's founding fathers, if not Aristotle

When I initially heard the story of Visa, I took a deep breath. This was the first time I had heard of a conscious, intentional effort to design an institution that would not only survive an explosion of information, but would feed off it.

Does this have FREEMASON written all over it, or what? Founding fathers, (many freemasons). Aristotle, studied a great deal by freemasons.

Something folks should understand though. Many people spell the word VISA
as Visa, using lower case letters. But, look at your card. The letters will always be in upper case. Very important. Also, VISA used to have a border around it, but they just removed the border. Why

Protect the Cornerstone of the Visa Brand

Full of energy and life, the Visa Brand Mark represents the cornerstone of the Visa brand.
It should be represented in full colour Visa Blue and Visa Gold whenever possible. When printing, it is preferred that Visa Blue and Visa Gold are reproduced as spot colors.

www.visa.ca...

The blue and gold are well known in the occult.

60. My number is 11, as all their numbers who are of us. The Five Pointed Star, with a Circle in the Middle, & the circle is Red. My colour is black to the blind, but the blue & gold are seen of the seeing. Also I have asecret glory for them that love me.

occulttexts.wordpress.com...

The border was removed to make it seem less like a credit card, and more like a method for transactions that contains all kinds of personal information.

The cornerstone? Masonic. The brand.

That is the mark. The brand for trading your labor. Trademark.

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 09:11 AM by CaptGizmo

Wait a second.....I don't remember anyone forcing that credit card on me! If I remember correctly they didn't want to give me one at first.I had to earn my mark of the beast

I could think of other things better than Visa.How do you know your not getting the mark of the beast when you get a filling on a tooth? or when you have an operation or when you get vaccinations....it could be floating around in your blood now without you even knowing it. In my honest opinion the whole mark of the beast 666 thing is hog wash.

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 09:21 AM by cutbothways

reply to post by CaptGizmo

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. However, what you think doesn't matter to people who want Armageddon, and 666 is very important to them.

Some of these people happen to be in high positions, like President Bush/Cheney and their worship of Skull and Bones gods of the underworld, for example

They would love nothing more than to prove the number 666 as the most powerful number in the occult...

I guess one could call it "self-fulfilling prophecy".

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 12:36 PM by cutbothways

So, even the Clintons are involved with VISA.

Visa Launches New Corporate Responsibility Program

Commitments announced at Clinton Global Initiative meeting
Efforts focus on combating poverty through microfinance, financial literacy
and development of new technologies
...
"Oxfam congratulates Visa on the launch of its new corporate
responsibility program. We are pleased to be one of Visa's partners, and to
work closely with a company that shares our commitment to address poverty
and improve the quality of life for people in some of the poorest
communities in the world," said Raymond C. Offenheiser, president of Oxfam
America. "We look forward to a successful and productive partnership."

www.prnewswire.com.../www/story/05-02-2008/0004805306&EDATE=

www.clintonglobalinitiative.org...

After working overseas for 15 years, Raymond Offenheiser returned to the U.S. in November 1995 to become President of Oxfam America. Mr. Offenheiser specializes in rural and agricultural development and has extensive experience with international grassroots social movements and NGOs, particularly in Latin America and Asia. Previously, he served for five years as the Ford Foundation Representative in Bangladesh and, prior to that, in the Andean and Southern Cone regions of South America. He has directed programs for the Inter-American Foundation in both Brazil and Colombia and has worked for the Save the Children Federation in Mexico. He is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and serves as an advisor to the Council on Economic Development, Harvard University’s Asia Center and School of Government, the Hesburgh Center for International Studies at the University of Notre Dame, and World Learning’s Global Partnership. Mr. Offenheiser has appeared as a commentator on CNN, NPR, C-Span, and the BBC and has been quoted in major American newspapers.

www.woodrow.org...

[edit on 2-5-2008 by cutbothways]

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 12:51 PM by freecell

It is part of the Mark of the Beast, but so is your drivers license, your voter registaration, your birth certificate, your registration on your car, your mortage, your bank accounts, your business licenses, your Birthday (no human being can KNOW for a fact when their birthday is if you TESTIFY you know when your birthday was, you a not telling the truth) even the Clandar and watches are marks of the beast.

And on and on, all of the marks are part of the MARK. There will soon be technology which can combine all of these marks into one, that will be THE Mark, but it will only be a combination of all into one.

AboveTopSecret.com is advertising supported.

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 01:05 PM by amatrine

Yeah visa can not be it. I do not see people running all over the third world countries using their visa card.

It says ALL great and small. So throws that out with the bathwater.

Ama

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 02:27 PM by cutbothways

After all that info, you so easily write it off.

By Tim Webb
Sunday, 11 March 2007

Paying for goods with notes and coins could be consigned to history within five years, according to the chief executive of Visa Europe.

Peter Ayliffe said that, by 2012, using credit and debit cards should be cheaper and more convenient than cash.

Some retailers could soon start surcharging customers if they choose to buy products with cash, because of the greater cost of processing these payments, he warned.

Visa Europe briefed the British Retail Consortium last month on new "contactless" cards that can be waved in front of a scanner to make small payments.

www.independent.co.uk...

VISA owns the network that credit card systems use.

They don't issue credit cards, they just make money off each transaction.

I told people, VISA would go up when it was introduced. Now, it is already doubled.

I predict, VISA will go way over $500 a share, within one years time.

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 02:40 PM by Nohup

Well, I don't know about it being the mark of the Beast, since that's all a lot of hogwash. But if you fiddle with the shapes a bit, you get this:

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 02:59 PM by Brother Stormhammer

Originally posted by cutbothways

It's the number OF a man. And his number is Six Hundred, THREE SCORE and six.

Now no one can buy or sell, unless they have the mark (trademark?) or the name of the beast (VISA) or the number of his name (666)

The reason Three score is used in the bible, is because it means 60. But, it also means, your credit score. Think about it, your credit score is three numbers, reported by three companies, and Georgia even has and AVERAGE credit score of, you guessed it, 666.

So, hidden inside the number of the beast, is a subtle antichrist mockery.

Now lets examine VISA. There are several ways to get 666 out of the name.

VI=6 in Roman Numerals.

S=6 or sigma. See 6 Sigma, a business training system.

A. The letter a is represents the pyramid. Notice, the top is flat, because the capstone is missing. The horizontal line, represents the 33rd degree. 3+3=6

This can't be right. Everybody (at least the enlightened and special people out there) know that VISA is actually a code that blows the whistle on the entire American Space Program, and proves that we did it all with reverse-engineered alien technology.

V is the Roman numeral for 5.
I is the Roman numeral 1.
Taken together, we have "51", an obvious reference to "Area 51", where, as we all know, the U.S. Government is testing and reverse-engineering alien technology from the Roswell Incident (and others) to this very day.

S is, indeed "Sigma"...a symbol widely used in mathematics and engineering, and even associated with the early stages of NASA's manned space missions. Mission MA-8 (Astronaut Walter M. Schirra's Project Mercury flight) used a capsule named "Sigma 7".

A is tied to the Apollo program itself. All of the Apollo test missions had mission numbers "SA-number"...there's your "Sigma" again, and the "A", and an even more direct tie to Area 51. "VI SA" = (Area) 51 Apollo Test Flight.

The word VISA comes from the latin word "visiage" which means "to give/have a visible mark for passage".

Dictionary.Com entry for "Visa"

Actually, it seems to come from the Latin Carta Visa meaning "The document has been examined", by way of French.

Also, you tell us (in your initial post) that JP-8 jet fuel is refined diesel. That's factually incorrect, unless you're referring to the fact that both diesel fuel and JP-8 come from crude oil. Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were:

Military specification defining JP-8

Given that you've dropped the ball on the origin of "Visa", and on the source and composition of JP-8 (neither one was very hard to find. My Google-fu is notoriously weak, and it took me less than 5 minutes), I'm afraid I need more documentation supporting some aspect of your claim before I believe it.

I'd also like to see the documentation or source for the "Average credit score of the state of Georgia". The average score according to Equifax? The average according to Trans-Union? The average according to Experian? Very rarely do the three companies report the same number for an individual, never mind for an average across an entire state. The average would also fluctuate on a weekly, if not daily basis. Without knowing which bureau supplied your number, or how long that number was valid (if it was at all), it's just a number...nothing more, nothing less.

Disclaimer:
Nothing in the above post was intended as a "personal attack" or "ad hominem". All facts quoted as part of my reply reside in the public domain, or are used within the boundaries of "Fair Use". All sarcasm used in this post was organic, and preservative free. No animals were harmed in the testing of this post. This post made with 69.7% recycled electrons. This post not recommended if the user is pregnant, nursing, or has a history of heart disease, high blood pressure, or liver dysfunction. Consult your physician before becoming apoplectic.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by Brother Stormhammer]

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 03:49 PM by cutbothways

reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

Interesting, Area 51 and VISA. Maybe area 51 is the brains of the network. Trillion upon trillions of dollars stored in electrons.

One flip of the switch, and no more money.

Actually, it seems to come from the Latin Carta Visa meaning "The document has been examined", by way of French.

The word visiage is used all the time by people unknowingly. My original source has been removed.

www.google.com...

Also, you tell us (in your initial post) that JP-8 jet fuel is refined diesel. That's factually incorrect, unless you're referring to the fact that both diesel fuel and JP-8 come from crude oil. Straight from the horse's mouth, as it were:

When I was in the military, they used JP-4. JP-8 is a further refined fuel for the newer jet engines, a premium jet fuel of sorts.

K-1 Kerosene, #1 diesel, and jet fuel (JP4) are closely related to each other. #1 and JP4 have higher allowable sulfur than K-1

www.toad.net...

I'd also like to see the documentation or source for the "Average credit score of the state of Georgia". The average score according to Equifax? The average according to Trans-Union? The average according to Experian? Very rarely do the three companies report the same number for an individual, never mind for an average across an entire state.

You did get me on that one. I looked it up about a year ago. Since then, Texas has taken the dubious honor.

Consumers in the state of Texas have the lowest average credit score in the nation, with a score of 666. This is five points lower than Mississippi, which has the second lowest average in the US.

www.money-zine.com...

Your credit report is a key part of many credit scoring systems. That’s why it is critical to make sure your credit report is accurate. Federal law gives you the right to get a free copy of your credit reports from each of the three national consumer reporting companies once every 12 months.

www.ftc.gov...

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 04:03 PM by cutbothways

Have you seen the new VISA passport card?

international.cua.edu...

And you remember the VISA Rewards 666 card.

Now, you can't even find an image of one.

666 card credit reward visa 20
Sitemap -. rewards 666 visa bad credit

bestbusinessrewardcreditcard.info...

AboveTopSecret.com is advertising supported.

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 05:29 PM by Brother Stormhammer

Methinks you're either missing my point, or trolling.

You seem to place great significance on "If I take this part of something, and call it a Roman number, and take this part and compare it to a brand name, and take this other part, and mix in some Freemasonry, I've proven (insert hypothesis here)." My point with the "Area 51" portion of my reply wasn't to point ot some other layer to your nascent conspiracy, but to point out that, given the ability to selectively interpret data in parts, using whatever language, logic, and / or numbering system you can bring to bear, you can tie just about *anything* to just about anything else....you can even get the number of the beast out of your mom's recipe for home-made biscuits with enough effort.

The page you linked about a "666 Visa card" isn't a 'reference' at all...it's a list of nonsense phrases (either that, or my ability to read and understand standard English has faded faster than ice in the Arizona sun). Net information content is zero (or slightly below zero).

There's also your fear that "all our money is being converted to electrons". I hate to break it to you, but most of the money in circulation is electronic in nature...not just here under the Evil Federal Reserve, but in pretty much every industrialized nation. Having worked in a bank for several years, I have a sneaking suspicion as to why...ever carry around $50,000? How about $2,000 in quarters? Cash is either heavy or bulky, and sometimes both. There are plenty of reasons why banks would rather swap electrons than paper or metal that have nothing to do with a financial conspiracy.

Working back, I can't tell you where the first credit card machines were, but I'm fairly sure that it wasn't the self-serve gas pump...the first ones I remember were at a local hardware store (the old kind that sold hammers, and nails, and seed, not hard drives...I'm old!) and a grocery. Admittedly, the Midwest (particularly the farming / rural areas where I grew up) weren't on the cutting edge, but I'm betting that there were card machines in a fair number of businesses before gas stations got around to them.

Finally (or first, if we're going by points in your post), you remember when diesel was cheaper than it is now, and you think that the increased price is part of a conspiracy? Let me pose an alternative explanation for you. Back when diesel was a lot cheaper (I remember it being 50 cents/gal), everything oil related was cheaper, and very few things burned diesel. Commercial trucks, agricultural equipment, construction equipment, some military vehicles, and some maritime applications (tugs and fishing vessels, for the most part) were the entire diesel market. Now-days (I told you I was from rural Missouri), all of those markets still exist, but there's also a substantial set of NEW markets....diesel pickups and passenger cars are now a substantial part of the American scene. Add in that increased demand, plus more demand from industrializing nations like China and India, and basic economics will tell you that prices will go up, without the need for a conspiracy to push them.

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 05:35 PM by cutbothways

reply to post by Brother Stormhammer

Well, I would expect a mason to act the way you have.

There are no conspiracies, right?

we've come to expect our politicians to be crooks, liars, and general scum....and we find it much easier to believe that they'd do *anything*, no matter how horrible, no matter how destructive, no matter how heinous to maintain or expand their power than to believe that a group of people hate us enough to do something like that to us. The simple fact is that the conspiracy is more comforting than the reality.

From the one thread you have started in the two years you have been a member.

Can someone say TROLL!
www.abovetopsecret.com...

More friggen government stooges tried to derail threads.

Pfft.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by cutbothways]

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 05:52 PM by acurioushuman

hello all i would like to know if any of you saw the similarity between the pic in nohups reply

] and the freemason symbol

anyone have any thoughts? iwoul also like to say great thread and hats off to cutsbothways great research and very thought provoking

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 06:10 PM by dervishmadwhirler

Okay, just a small bit of info that I know of.
Take the letters of the alphabet, give them all a value starting from 6 and increasing with 6, like a=6, b=12, c=18, etcetera.
Take the word computer and add up the value of the letters and what do we get?

666

Furthermore; the standard barcodes on products we all know, have three longer lines, the first the middle one and the ;ast one. These double thin lines are what the computer(-barcodereader) reads as 6, so that makes every item have a number of the beast, remember, no-one can buy or sell without the mark of the beast.

Just thought I'd mention this as it seems to be absent in your posts.

Tho I do not believe in the Bible an sich, I DO believe in the power of prophesy.
Almost all cultures appear to have a prophecy about this kind of thing and about this specific time in history. Psychedelic research into visions also kind of corroborates this.

So, Either reality is so very different from what we perceive and accept, or there is some pretty strong proof of a pre-ordained reality.

We live in interesting times, that is one thing that is for sure.