Options #3 and #4

the existence of god (in terms of philosophy) breaks down to one of two options:

option #1: god is real
option #2: god is not real

there are 3 positions.

theist: supports option #1
atheist: supports option #2
agnostic: doesn't think that it's possible to make the choice

brief side note:
i'm philosophically agnostic but i live atheistically
end side note

what about option #3: god existed, but doesn't exist anymore

sure, it may sound ridiculous to make that statement to a christian, jew, or muslim, but it's a philosophically valid point.

then there's even an option #4: god doesn't exist now, but could exist in the future.

i'm just bringing this up because i find that a lot of discussions on here break down into infantile "it's either our religion is right or none" discussions.

christians (being by far the largest group on here) make this claim often. they create the false dichotomy of "christianity or atheism"

i just wanted to clear that up

could god be dead?
could god not yet be born?

who knows?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Honestly I stopped reading when you claimed "what' you are... I don't believe in classifications when it comes to the lord... Either you believe or you don't, there is no luke warm and therefore, I spit this thread out.. :shk: Either you have a relationship with God or you don't... If you feel nothing when considering the lord then maybe you haven't found a relationship with him yet... Either that or you just don't have it in you to believe or are simply to confused... Either this or you have chosen the wrong path for yourself...

Are you having problems with this?

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam

Either you believe or you don't, there is no luke warm.

You can't go from none believer to believer instantly.
You don't just wake up one morning and WHAM, i now believe in God.
It took me about six weeks of asking questions and changing my attitudes towards God before i came to faith.
I know that Madness has searched for and tried to find God but his search was fruitless,
You have to go from cold, through luke warm and then finally to hot (if you know what i mean). Its just part of the process,

Cheers
John.

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


then why bother posting with your preaching?

i wonder what sort of backlash i'd get if i posted "i stopped reading when you found out you're a christian." and then posted a similar, atheism based response on their

this is a philosophical thread relating to a somewhat theological topic, it's not a place to preach.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


im gonna help you out here Madness,

Quite possible #3 & #4 answers you got here.

A being as depicted as God by people that believe could in fact exist beyond the linear scale that is time. In this reality God could in fact have existed in the past but does not exist in this time.

Or perhaps God has yet to have existed waiting in fact for the time when conditions are right for such a being to come into existence.

This could go into another train of thought the big bang theory...

God was the start of the big bang. In this scenario God being everything was condensed into one being and by it's death created the universe by rational that it was one and all substances that constitutes everything known and unknown within the universe. Upon it's demise the very nature of its demise caused a chain reaction and thus the big bang and the universe came into being. That could be simply stated that the entire universe could in fact be the decomposition of the entity known as god.

Or the same could be shown for the supposed Big Crunch. The theory that the entire universe being elastic could in fact collapse in on itself thereby bringing in to one singularity everything known and unknown within the universe creating the deity known as God.

[edit on 5/2/2008 by whatukno]

reply to post by whatukno


wooooooooo!

someone actually saw where i was going with the ideas without me having to start explaining it.

yeah, that was what i was thinking. my mind was just thinking about the idea of god as a prime mover and thought "what if that prime movement was its death?" and i ended up getting to this point.

i also just hate it when people set up dichotomies and just leave it at that.

Great thread man.
Starred and flagged.

But wouldn't
We are all gods.

A possible #5?

I say this because I do honestly believe that we are all infant gods.

Now excuse me men in white suits are seeking to talk to me about self hugging jackets and white padded rooms.
LoL!

just making a point, you could technically combine 3 and 4 to make an interesting situation of God existed before, will exist gain later but doesn't now. Which kind of makes sense, maybe he wants to watch the end result of his creation, but not how it gets there, or he only wants to watch a certain point in it's history. In which case, he could time travel. If he could do that and left before this time and arrives after this time (or the other way round, I suppose) then technically he doesn't exist now. It sort of makes sense but the explanation might not unless thought is applied.

And interesting points with the big bang whatukno, interesting, very interesting. Could that also be applied to us theoretically creating a universe in a super collider and destroying ourselves in so doing? Not sure if that is technically possible, but it's an interesting idea.

[edit on 9-5-2008 by apex]

reply to post by WraothAscendant


indeed, that could be a possible #5

a possible #6 is that we could create god, or at least create that which would become god.

imagine what would happen the second we created a self-thinking machine that was just slightly more intelligent than the most intelligent human. it would be able to start improving itself and, with all the processing power that we lack by comparison, be able to do a lot more than the whole human population on its own.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


Thought provoking thread mims. So strange . . . i was discussing the same thing 2 or 3 nights ago with my friend. I said to him "Even if you believe that G*d created everything and all the things in the bible, isn't there a possibility he's not around anymore?" My friends a Christian and amazingly, he agreed with me.

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


That would be interesting.
And kinda scary.
But very interesting.
Hopefully it could avoid my woeful view of humanity.
Otherwise.
Weeeeez be toast.
It'd go SkyNet on our butts.

Or possibly it was already been created? Possible 6b?

reply to post by madnessinmysoul


A possible #7?

God is around, but sometimes takes a break or a nap, leaving nobody in charge.

I don't know why but I have always been of the opinion time doesn't exist for God like it does for us.

Could it be God has been taking a nap for the past 3 thousand years or so?

Another thought is that we are part of Gods dreams, and when bad things happen, part of a nightmare?

Something you may find interesting:
God's Debris

It was an enjoyable and thought provoking book, but not a viewpoint I subscribe to. By my understanding of a God worthy of worship, if there was (or will be) a point in time (God being within time is odd enough) that God does not exist, then that being cannot possibly be God.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by babloyi]

i find this odd...

the big atheist boogeyman tries to start a thread that discusses the issue of god in a rational way from a completely different perspective, and there are only 12 replies.

so much for trying to start a dialog

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
could god be dead?
could god not yet be born?

who knows?

What God? What's the definition of this dead or yet to be born God?

Is the semen I ejaculated all over my self last week God? Then yes, God is dead and yes God could be born again in the future.

After revisiting the forums I frequented in the past on ATS/BTS I've noticed a lot of dichotomies coming up, specifically with regards to philosophical notions of god(s).

Now, there are about 6 positions for someone to examine in this thread and another I'd like to put forth.

7: A deity existed at some point and no longer exists and another, entirely different deity will exist later on in the history of the universe.

Now, we already have a narrow-minded 'either ya know god or ya don't' argument as the first reply, but this thread never really got off the ground when I first posted it and I'd like to see what other people think of these ideas.