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Is it worth it for me to fill my mind with truth or is ignorance truly bliss?

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posted on May, 6 2008 @ 02:01 PM
You know the sad thing about this is we here are trying to discover some sort of truths and we here are a small percent. Awaken while other people are out there clueless to the bigger picture and then there are those in power trying to keep us away from these truths. And we sit here trying to make sense of it all the odds are aginst us...

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 03:32 PM
reply to post by othehitmans

I don't really care if I ever find out the exact and complete answers to my questions, thoughts, and theories. I am happy to be me and I percieve this life and universe to be fulfilling and enthralling. I like to discuss ideas. I like contemplating. I like discovering. I like changing my mind. I like to see things in different ways. I like to feel the necessity to learn. I like asking questions and getting different answers from everyone and then comparing them with my own. I like to learn things from others and show things to others. If I believed in absolute truths, I think the world would feel like a giant math class. Just figuring out answers that your proffesor already knows and discussing formulas instead of ideas. Some people might like that; I would not. Maybe that is why we all percieve the world differently; maybe we percieve the world to suit our own individual needs and desires. Maybe the world really is what you make of it. That doesn't seem so bad does it?

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 04:12 PM
reply to post by devildogUSMC

I really dont care either if dont get all my questions answerd. I just really find it unfair to me trying to find some truths and live in the world that we live in.. i guess thats the price we pay for "knowledge/Truths"...

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 04:41 PM
To the OP....... Good question, one ive often asked myself these last few years... im a 25 year old female, and id say the last 5 years have been almost consumed with finding the truth and trying to grasp how much of this 'reality' we see isnt really reality.... i may find the answer to one question, but then im left with a dozen more questions, its never ending and very emotionally draining..... and i can honestly say it does make one quite paranoid!..... also makes some things seem pointless and i often have to force myself to live in the 'normal' world where everyone is in their own little bubble and cant/wont think outside their own little box... the more i hear the term 'sheep' the more i see it, and i do just feel like a slave to something i dont believe in or agree with..... its frustrating to say the least...... the more i see whats really going on, the more i wish i never knew..... BUT the more i see whats really going on, the more i have to know, so its a no win situation!

Anyone have a link to this montsana video please?

[edit on 19/10/2007 by cosmicstorm]

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 04:59 PM
monsanto video not montsana

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 07:08 PM
Is this the one you mean?


What ever happened to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?"

Why do leaders lead toward killing? I thought that was Hitler's gig.

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 08:46 PM
reply to post by cosmicstorm

I was thinking alot like you are for my whole life. I knew nothing was what it seemed. I also looked into it deeper than the conspiracies, aliens, government, shadow government, ghosts, science, weapons, secrets, lies and other fascinating, frustrating, interesting, frightening, wonderful, horrible, beautiful things that most people don't think or care about, and indulged myself in some basic philosophy for a nice little break every once in a while without feeling lazy; this last month I've been looking alot deeper, and it gets deep. Since I started this post I can't stop thinking about what truth is. I didn't think I would have so much internal conflict over this, but it is tough. The more you think, the more you think you need to think about. "I think, therefore I am."-Descartes. I now remember hearing this quote from a long time ago but I had never read and studied Descartes' work at all before today...all day. It was suggested to me in a conversation last night that I do some more research; probably wasn't a bad idea. I thought that I was realizing my own genius philosophy until I found out that actually most of my beliefs fit right in with subjectivism. I think Descartes, for the most part, had it down.


1. If I am dreaming/deceived, then my beliefs are not true.

2. We only have access to the world of our ideas; things in the world are only accessed indirectly.
3. These ideas are understood to include all of the contents of the mind, including perceptions, images, memories, concepts, beliefs, intentions, decisions, etc.
4. The ideas represent things that are separate from themselves.
These represented things are many times "external" to the mind.
It is possible for these ideas to constitute either accurate or false representations.

5. Something cannot come from nothing.
6. The cause of an idea must have at least as much formal reality as the idea has objective reality.
7. I have in me an idea of God. This idea has infinite objective reality.
8. I cannot be the cause of this idea, since I am not an infinite and perfect being. I don't have enough formal reality. Only an infinite and perfect being could cause such an idea.
9. So God -- a being with infinite formal reality -- must exist (and be the source of my idea of God).
10. An absolutely perfect being is a good, benevolent being.
11. So God is benevolent.
12. So God would not deceive me and would not permit me to err without giving me a way to correct my errors.
13. I exist.
14. My existence must have a cause.
15. The cause must be either:
a) myself
b) my always having existed
c) my parents
d) something less perfect than God
e) God
Not a. If I had created myself, I would have made myself perfect.
Not b. This does not solve the problem. If I am a dependent being, I need to be continually sustained by another.
Not c. This leads to an infinite regress.
Not d. The idea of perfection that exists in me cannot have originated from a non-perfect being.
e. God exists.
16. If I've gotten everything in me from God and He hasn't given me the ability to err, it doesn't seem possible for me ever to err.
17. I find that I am "intermediate" between God and nothingness, between the supreme entity and nonentity. Insofar as I am the creation of the supreme entity, there's nothing in me to account for my being deceived or led into error, but, inasmuch as I somehow participate in nothing or nonentity - that is, insofar as I am distinct from the supreme entity itself and lack many things - it's not surprising that I go wrong. I thus understand that, in itself, error is a lack, rather than a real thing dependent on God. Hence, I understand that I can err without God's having given me a special ability to do so. Rather, I fall into error because my God-given ability to judge.

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 08:57 PM
18. I realize that I shouldn't be surprised at God's doing things that I can't explain. I shouldn't doubt His existence just because I find that I sometimes can't understand why or how He has made something. I know that my nature is weak and limited and that God's is limitless, incomprehensible, and infinite, and, from this, I can infer that He can do innumerable things whose reasons are unknown to me. On this ground alone, I regard the common practice of explaining things in terms of their purposes to be useless in physics: it would be foolhardy of me to think that I can discover God's purposes.
19. When asking whether God's works are perfect, I ought to look at all of them together, not at one isolation. For something that seems imperfect when viewed alone might seem completely perfect when regarded as having a place in the world. Of course, since calling everything into doubt, I haven't established that anything exists besides me and God. But, when I consider God's immense power, I can't deny that He has made - or, in any case, that He could have made - many other things, and I must therefore view myself as having a place in a universe.
20. If I suspend judgement when I don't clearly and distinctly grasp what is true, I obviously do right and am not deceived. But, if I either affirm or deny in a case of this sort, I misuse my freedom of choice. If I affirm what is false, I clearly err, and, if I stumble onto the truth, I'm still blameworthy since the light of nature reveals that a perception of the understanding should always precede a decision of the will. In these misuses of freedom of choice lies the deprivation that accounts for error. And this deprivation, I maintain, lies in the working of the will insofar as it comes from me - not in my God-given ability to will, or even in the will's operation insofar as it derives from Him.
21. Before asking whether any such objects exist outside me, I ought to consider the ideas of these objects as they exist in my thoughts and see which are clear and which confused.
22. I find in myself innumerable ideas of things which, though they may not exist outside me, can't be said to be nothing. While I have some control over my thoughts of these things, I do not make the things up: they have their own real and immutable natures. Suppose, for example, that I have a mental image of a triangle. While it may be that no figure of this sort does exist or ever has existed outside my thought, the figure has a fixed nature (essence or form), immutable and eternal, which hasn't been produced by me and isn't dependent of my mind.
23. God is defined as an infinitely perfect being.
24. Perfection includes existence.
25. So God exists.
26. Insofar as they are the subject of pure mathematics, I now know at least that they can exist, because I grasp them clearly and distinctly. For God can undoubtedly make whatever I can grasp in this way, and I never judge that something is impossible for Him to make unless there would be a contradiction in my grasping the thing distinctly.
27. When I have a mental image of a triangle, for example, I don't just understand that it is a figure bounded by three lines; I also "look at" the lines as though they were present to my mind's eye. And this is what I call having a mental image. When I want to think of a chiliagon, I understand that it is a figure with a thousand sides as well as I understand that a triangle is a figure with three, but I can't imagine its sides or "look" at them as though they were present.
28. It is possible for God to create anything I can clearly and distinctly perceive.
29 If God creates something to be independent of another, they are distinct from each other.
30. I clearly and distinctly understand my existence as a thinking thing (which does not require the existence of a body).
31. So God can create a thinking thing independently of a body.

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 09:00 PM
I clearly and distinctly understand my body as an extended thing (which does not require a soul).
So God can create a body independently of a soul.
So my soul is a reality distinct from my body.
So I (a thinking thing) can exist without a body.

Sorry I forgot what number I was on and I don't feel like looking. I agree with alot of theese beliefs. Not all, but many.

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 09:11 PM
reply to post by devildogUSMC

The line from Jack Nicholson " you want the truth? well, you can't handle the truth!" is a good place to start. What can you handle?
Is there a cut off point where your brain shuts down and says to you; "Enough, I can't take anymore".
Everyone has a different threshhold of how much "Reality" they can take.
Much the same reasoning where our own government thinks we can't handle the truth about much of anything. Thus we are fed a steady diet of propaganda. The biggest farce being, " We are from the government, and are here to protect and serve!"
Anyway, I digress; Thus, break down what it is you what to know exactly.
How do you go about getting the truth about that particular thing? It is reasonable to believe you can acquire it. Will that truth aid you in any way, once you acquire it? Or will it harm you.

Let's say your going to die in 1 1/2 years. You don't know it yet, but you could find out, by logging onto a certain web site. Would you log on and find that information, if someone told you to go there? Would you want to know it? Some would, some wouldn't. Would it help to know? Or scare the beejeezus out of you.

Same goes for Death,Mayhem, Riots, Teotwawki, 2012 theories, rapturists, etc.
Some things are knowable,with digging, while other things are conjecture and theories.
How much can you handle?

As for me, I can handle just about anything. I have lived long enough to have been through nearly everything,including my own death twice. (saved by modern medicine and sciences)( dying on the table, and leaving, to be brought back, is odd and bewildering)Out of body experiences are real...
I am a realist. I don't what fairy stories of magical pixies coming from space to save humanity. I believe in raw hard core gut instincts, and acting on them. I believe in self preservation at any cost. I believe in lethal force and defense. I go to the root, and the source, to get the real story if I can. Never be afraid to ask questions, and lots of them.
I ain't afraid to ask questions, and then make a decision based on what I find out. Many times, I hate the answer I get. But, I persevere, and move on.
I can't "climb into your pelt and crawl around awhile!" (sorry bill)
only you can know what makes you tick. Only you can figure out what you really what to know.
This much I know to be true: You can't do it all, have it all, compete in everything, win at everything or never loose, and you can't ever know it all.
[some posters here think they do, but, they don't!]

So, my advice would be to step back, take a deep breath, relax, a start with one thing at a time. Nail it down to your satisfaction, and move on to the next question. If you can't find the answers you seek, don't worry about it. I'll bet, sooner or later the answer will present itself, when you least expect it.
I wouldn't go after anything to profound, or so deep, that it would require a lifetime of devotion towards it's ultimate conclusion.
Like the meaning of life and everything! The answer is 42!

Keep it simple; if you can't eat it,wear it, live in it, ride it, shoot it, or screw it, to hell with it!

Keep your options open, and have an open mind. And don't lose your sense of humor through it all.

Because as Neil Kellerman from Dirty Dancing explains it; "Baby,There are somethings in life, that you just don't what to see!"

[edit on 6-5-2008 by UFOBountyHunter]

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 09:28 PM
reply to post by UFOBountyHunter

I like you're reasoning, and I know the answer is 42, but what is the ultimate question?
I think I might have just been a little depressed about things the day I started this thread. I don't want to be in the dark about the issues. I want to know everything, but I must admit this last week I have been mostly thinking about philosophy, and not too much about current affairs, world issues, or politics, and I feel alot more relaxed. Turning a blind eye to things is not my style. I have a need to know like I need food and water. I thirst for it. I appreciate your advice and input.

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 11:55 PM
"By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe." ...

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 08:02 AM
Thanks for the link to the monsanto docu, i watched the full 2hours and its another one of those things you kinda wished you never knew but glad that you do!

.....and devildog thanks for those descartes beliefs, very good read

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 11:05 AM
reply to post by cosmicstorm

You can't help but think about that Monsanto video. If you watched that video, You're thinking about it. Scary, Scary, Scary. What is safe? Not even the supposedly good for you organic foods. I feel so poisened and powerless.

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 11:36 AM
reply to post by devildogUSMC

I know, its awful.... ive always been a vegetarian, but now im put off milk, fruit/veg/wheat.... everything! seems nothing is natural anymore.... in fact, nowadays i question everything....

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 11:48 AM
reply to post by cosmicstorm

You have to question everything. I think it makes sense. If there is something that you don't have any questions about, you aren't thinking hard enough. I was starting to even question my own existence, but Descartes and some guys that were posting the other night helped me out of that. "I think, therefore I am". If I stop thinking, do I stop existing though? You get to something you believe to be absolute and still the questions come up.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 12:33 PM

Originally posted by devildogUSMC
reply to post by cosmicstorm

You have to question everything. I think it makes sense. If there is something that you don't have any questions about, you aren't thinking hard enough. I was starting to even question my own existence, but Descartes and some guys that were posting the other night helped me out of that. "I think, therefore I am". If I stop thinking, do I stop existing though? You get to something you believe to be absolute and still the questions come up.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by devildogUSMC]

I have got there myself. Do I really exist? I still do not have an answer for that one. What is I? Am I singualr, or am I plural ideas that make me think I am.


posted on May, 7 2008 @ 01:52 PM
Keep in MIND, that the sum of your existance is in your HEAD/BRAIN.
It isn't how you look, what you wear, what or how many cool friends you have,the car you drive yada, yada, yada...
It is what your thinking and memory processes determine it to be.
( like you make your own hell while your alive )
The number one thing that influences everything, is the CHOICES you make. Some may argue that we are forced into things by environment and by connections, not by choices. I disagree. WE all have the option of changing those things, if we really want too.
I look at life like a trash can. How much garbage do you want filling up your head. Do you want nothing but images of filth and perversion, violence, and destruction taking up 70% of the volume inside your head, leaving less than 30% for real, valuable lessons and images that make you happy to be alive? Or are you going to fill it up with junk?
Not many folks understand the ratio of 1 to 5. It applies to nearly everything. I am not going to tell you what it means. I want you to think about it, and learn for yourself. Eventually, you'll experience an awakening, once you figure it out. If you cheat, and search the internet for the answer to the ratio, you do yourself a huge dis-service. You need to discover it on your own.
This ratio also applies to how far you what to know anything.
You must also learn to master the art of brain purging.
I have a saying that I tell folks once in a while, that always makes them think, " I have forgotten more, than you'll ever know!"
Way to many folks cling onto useless junk. Not only physically, but mentally as well. Pick the bones of your memories, and keep the good meat of any lesson, throw out the fat,sinew,bone, grissle,and other stuff that just clouds up your thinking, and ablity to live happily and freely by CHOICES.
Be glad your not a tree! Once they sink a tap root, they have nothing left but to deal with situation at hand.
You have choices...and that is an amazing thing if used wisely.

Quite frequently, someone will start to tell something salacious, and I'll stop them, and ask; "I need to know this why exactly?"
I refuse to let them throw their trash, into my recepticle.

I realise that it is impossible to have nothing but good thoughts and warm fuzzies all the time. It'd be kinda a boring if we did.
There is a balance. ONE to FIVE!
The final thing I feel everyone needs to get over, IS worthiness.
If your here, your worthy of the potential your born with. Use it to it's fullest possible valuable end. Don't short change yourself, and think, I am worthless, I'm nothing, and I hate this life because I got screwed! It is all about CHOICES! remember it.
The poorer person is every bit as valuable and important as Bill Gates is.
It is societal norms, that have decided to worship the wrong idols by the choices they have collectively made. Don't fall into that trap.
For something to read, that still rings true today, as the day it was written, look up the "Desiderata".
Memorize it.

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 02:02 PM
i shall look up 'Desiderata'........ but can you not elaborate a little more on the 1-5 ratio thing, please?

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 02:44 PM
reply to post by UFOBountyHunter

Do you mean 1 unpleasent memory for every 5 pleasent memories? How can you control that? I don't understand.

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