Why I don't believe...

DaTruth,

2 other good instances that support what Truth is saying

When Jesus is being accused and they ask him if he is the Son of God. He doesn't just say, "Yes." He answers, "I am." If that wasn't clear enough to us, it was clear to the Jews who immediately knew he had blasphemed by invoking the I AM, the name God gave to Moses for himself. (Luke 22)

When Jesus healed the paralytic that was let through the roof, he forgave his sin first, and then healed him as a visible sign of his authority to do such. Only a man claiming to be God can claim to forgive sins. (Luke 5)

There was no question who Jesus thought he was. No prophet of God or wise person sets himself up as God unless that is what he is.

Originally posted by Jonna

I said 99% because it would be foolish to believe that I knew the rules of every religion. However, nearly every religion that I am aware of is a control structure to such a degree that, at least to me and my perception of it, the definition of religion is more synonymous with control then spirituality. The concept of heaven/hell, god/satan, good/evil are all control structures and thus a lot of religions go right into the way that I see it.

Yes, those are control structures, but as they are, as mere names, they are incredibly ambiguous. Different churches take all different takes into what is good and evil and what is heaven and hell and who goes where and why. Some of these churches are more strict in nature than others, but many leave it open-ended even to the point where it comes down to the individual preacher giving his or her own version of how to guide the congregation.

Not nearly all control their congregation based on those structures for a few reasons. First, people can choose which church they want to attend. They are able to choose which set of guidelines best suits them. Second, people tend to pick and choose their own beliefs based from a set list of beliefs put forth in a catechism. I'm sure most practicing Catholics you know differ on many issues concerning what is right in the eyes of God. As such, there is a greater emphasis on spirituality merely because you are given the right to choose what you think is best.

By the way, I'm really enjoying this argument, maybe it should be a thread on its own.

I thought this thread was about "Why I don't believe..."??? What happened? The christians start another inquisition? No one would expect that!

Originally posted by Jonna
I thought this thread was about "Why I don't believe..."??? What happened? The christians start another inquisition? No one would expect that!

The thread was boiling down to "I don't believe because I've met some hypocrit Christians from bad chruches."

I only jumped in to try and help out Truth who seemed to have overextended himself a little bit up there.

Originally posted by meddled
Not nearly all control their congregation based on those structures for a few reasons. First, people can choose which church they want to attend. They are able to choose which set of guidelines best suits them. Second, people tend to pick and choose their own beliefs based from a set list of beliefs put forth in a catechism. I'm sure most practicing Catholics you know differ on many issues concerning what is right in the eyes of God. As such, there is a greater emphasis on spirituality merely because you are given the right to choose what you think is best.

My last post was not in reference to you, just so you know.

Perhaps this does not answer you statements, but I would like to state something that seems relivant to the topic at hand. Humans are basicly herd animals; everyone has a deep seeded desire to belong to a group. This probably began a long time ago for emotional comfort and physical protection. Religions are the ideal support system in this sense. Join one and you suddenly have possibly millions on 'your side' attacking anyone that does not believe and follow the group rules because, of course, every religion is intolerant to the idea that they are not the right one. So we have protection of group ideas and the downplay of outside ideas.

Now in order to continue the emotional comfort that is obtained by being a member of this group, the individual needs to propagandate their ideas and thus it spreads much like a virus or meme (for those whom know the evolution of language and ideas). This is how the members work for the religion, making it grow and spread.

Here is an interesting idea, the catholic church frowns upon any form of birth control. Why could this be? Perhaps it is because big catholics make little catholics and so the religion is passed on to those who do not have the experience to make a choice in the matter. A child is always going to believe what their parents tell them as fact because they don't know any better. The religion benefits by having more members ESPECIALLY those that are believing the ideas without question, ie children. I believe that someone once said, "Give me a child for the first 7 years of his/her life and I will own them forever." This is because at that low of an age, the ideas that are imprinted are usually stuck there for ever. So if a person is conditioned early enough that they never consider to question certain ideas isn't that just another form of control?

Originally posted by Blacktron
DaTruth,

2 other good instances that support what Truth is saying

When Jesus is being accused and they ask him if he is the Son of God. He doesn't just say, "Yes." He answers, "I am." If that wasn't clear enough to us, it was clear to the Jews who immediately knew he had blasphemed by invoking the I AM, the name God gave to Moses for himself. (Luke 22)

When Jesus healed the paralytic that was let through the roof, he forgave his sin first, and then healed him as a visible sign of his authority to do such. Only a man claiming to be God can claim to forgive sins. (Luke 5)

There was no question who Jesus thought he was. No prophet of God or wise person sets himself up as God unless that is what he is.

I'm sure he said "I am whatever you say I am" but that's besides the point. Your statement still dosn't explain the quote's that I posted

Originally posted by Jonna
I thought this thread was about "Why I don't believe..."??? What happened? The christians start another inquisition? No one would expect that!

Yea this thread got totally off topic. I will accept some of the blame.

[Edited on 10-3-2004 by DaTruth]

forget the prophecies
start a butterfly garden and an herb(yarb) garden
forget about the red dragon and the blood guzzling whore. plant some sedum.
riverz o' blood 'ey?

yep 'fraid so!

its a real pitty. all these poor helpless folks totally unable to control their own destiny. just a bunch of old geese runnin' over the cliff i s'pose.