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New Phoenix Lights Hoaxer Might Be Lying About Hoaxing

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posted on May, 7 2008 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Cromagnum
 


A very interesting take on the witness and his body language, hair cut (nice catch there) and his story, which is weak to say the least. I wasn't paying any attention to the body language, probably because I already had a pre-conceived notion he was lying. Glad someone was watching HIM lol.

I was also struck by the fact he and the reporter kept laughing off "those wacky UFO people that will believe anything." That made me laugh out loud, being as though he expected anyone with a brain to believe his story.




posted on May, 7 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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reply to post by WitnessFromAfar
 


Hiyah Witness and everyone who's keeping up with the thread...I would be more then HAPPY to write the letter to all the media


So far that councilwoman is the only e-mail I have received back...I will wait one more day...then launch another letter campaign...I will e-mail everyone who didn't respond with the councilwoman's quote...more pressure on the politicians is going to be fun
I wonder how many are up for re-election? Guess I'd better research that, that would be even more AWESOME if they were going to be in the upcoming fall election. A long way away, but still, you know how they prostitute themselves for votes!

It will be interesting to see if the lazy gutless clueless local media will write a story that's basically dropped into their laps with a quote from an official and all the leg work done for them eh?

And on that note, what's the consensus here all? Do I bring up UFOs or stick with the facts that according to the math, the hoaxer lied and leave it at that? What do you all think?



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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Can he do it again for the camera crew?



posted on May, 7 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by badBERTHA
 


I agree with Bertha. Those are the same things that appear in the Scotland video. Colors are similiar. Both have two pairs. Both change formation. They are the same thing.



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 08:31 AM
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Here is an idea to cut the cost on the balloon test. Go to a flourist. Get one of the already filled balloons. I know for a fact that they sell those balloons in the size you are looking for. You know, the metalic ones that teenagers cary in school for B-days, holidays etc. I've bought a good size one before for my daughter and I'm sure it didn't cost more than about 10$.

Just a thought.



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by LateApexer313
It will be interesting to see if the lazy gutless clueless local media will write a story that's basically dropped into their laps with a quote from an official and all the leg work done for them eh?


Agreed. And since I'm fully capable of writing a newsworthy article myself, it will be even more interesting if they refuse to print one at all.
During the 'Mystery Sonic Boom' in San Diego, we couldn't get the Union Tribune to do a follow up.


Originally posted by LateApexer313
And on that note, what's the consensus here all? Do I bring up UFOs or stick with the facts that according to the math, the hoaxer lied and leave it at that? What do you all think?


Well, all we've been able to prove here so far is that it's highly likely the Hoaxer is lying. In my article, that's what I would say, and I'd outline the arguments against the hoaxer, citing sources, etc.

I think it's best to be upfront about it. We don't know what the heck it was, but we don't think that it was flares attached to balloons, and here is why...

I'll try to draft something today if I get time


-WFA



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Cromagnum
Here is an idea to cut the cost on the balloon test. Go to a flourist. Get one of the already filled balloons. I know for a fact that they sell those balloons in the size you are looking for. You know, the metalic ones that teenagers cary in school for B-days, holidays etc. I've bought a good size one before for my daughter and I'm sure it didn't cost more than about 10$.

Just a thought.


Hello Cromagnum, yes I've taken that into consideration, however I'm under the impression that the hoaxer used Latex Balloons, the ones you are describing are Mylar. The Latex Balloons actually expand upon inflation, increasing their internal volume significantly, and holding more helium (causing more lift). A Mylar Balloon is form fitted, and usually made out of two pieces of mylar, ironed together. It doesn't stretch, and therefore doesn't expand to hold as much helium.

And it's the helium that costs


At any rate, I'll surely be able to get one tomorrow and test with it this weekend.


-WFA



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 10:57 AM
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Another thing came to mind about the vid. Why doesn't the reporter even interview the son who is standing in the background? The father clearly states his son was a witness, yet the son stays conveniently away from the camera and at one point he is seen smiling and almost laughing.



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 11:42 AM
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Cromagnum, I see that you are in Temecula. I'm in LA.
VisionQuest is in San Diego. If you would like to coordinate with the two of us on an experiment I think that it could be arranged. I was thinking of going to San Diego this weekend.

I'll U2U VisionQuest now... Let me know if you'd like to help.


-WFA



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 12:32 PM
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Okay, I've spoken with VisionQuest, and we're going to try a launch, but it won't be for a couple of weeks most likely, since we need to coordinate our schedules.

I'll be doing pre-launch tests this weekend though, and will obtain the appropriate balloon. I will document these tests and post when I've finished. I expect to have results by Saturday evening, if not sooner.



-WFA



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 01:19 PM
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Sounds good! I'm in. Since I'm in the middle of LA and SD, what do you think of meeting here or OC?



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 01:32 PM
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reply to post by Cromagnum
 


That sounds fine to me, I'm sure that VisionQuest will most likely check this thread before we're ready to do a launch test too.

Temecula is a bit inland though, we were thinking of doing our launch off the coast, and out over the ocean, to eliminate the fire danger.

I'm also thinking of a way we could tether it too, but we'll have to wait until after I've done the first round of pre-launch tests, before we know how much (if any) extra weight we'll be able to use as payload.

But I'm of the opinion that if we can tether it, we can further eliminate the possible fire risk by reeling it back in as opposed to letting it go. I'm not sure a tether will be possible, but it's one of the things I'm going to test.

Also, the Flare will only burn for 15 minutes, so I'd like to potentially do a control launch with a non-flare payload of the same weight, before launching the real deal. That way we can judge whether or not the flare will remain in view for the 15 minute duration of the burn. If so, I believe the risk will be minimal because we can track it (if it moves over land instead of the ocean) with my telescope and we can make sure that it doesn't land for at least the 15 minute burn time.

I feel that would give us the best shot at a 'safe' test.
I still think that we should alert the Fire Dept, whereever we plan to run the test. But making the test as safe as possible will help in getting their permission. I think we should at least ask...

At any rate, let's see what VisionQuest has to say about location, and hopefully we can all three get together on this one. VisionQuest and I are splitting the cost of the equipment, so if you'd like to get a control balloon (or pay for it, if one of us picks it up) so that we can launch it before the real deal, that would help too.

This is getting exciting
I can't wait for this weekend and the pre-launch tests.

I've got a feeling that we're on a course here to proving this guy's story to be a complete fabrication. I can't wait to test that hypothesis


-WFA



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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Sure. I'll suply the balloon. I'm still not sure what the actual size should be. Was it suppose to be around 13-14"? Also, San Clemente would be a good coastal location. There is some very open beach area away from tourists etc. We can discuss that further. It is not far from the San Onofre Nuclear Power Plant if you know where that is.



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by Cromagnum
 


I do know where that is


The balloon you're looking for must be Latex, and must me a 36 inch diameter (or 3ft diameter). It should run about $6.00, and the Helium to fill it will cost about $24.00.

Anything smaller won't have enough lift to support the flare (which weighs about 363 grams).

If there isn't a retailer in your area that sells them, let me know and I can get it in LA and bring it down. There are a few places that sell them online, but then you'd have to go get the balloon inflated at a Party Store or Florist.

I'm good with doing the launch phase anywhere along the coast between LA and SD, but I know that this weekend is bad because of Mother's Day. I think I'll be free next weekend. I'll update that when I know for sure.


-WFA



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 03:25 PM
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That's fine. I'm in a golf tournament this weekend anyways. NExt weekend is good for me.

I'm sure I can find the balloon here. Does it really cost that much for helium? WOW! My daughters mom has one of those party tanks of about 5 gallons of helium. One time use with no refills. Do you think that would hold enough to fill one of these balloons?



posted on May, 8 2008 @ 03:35 PM
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Originally posted by Cromagnum
My daughters mom has one of those party tanks of about 5 gallons of helium. One time use with no refills. Do you think that would hold enough to fill one of these balloons?


I'm not entirely sure, but I don't think it's enough. I'm not an expert on converting compressed gas into cubic feet uncompressed.

A quick check online, and I came up with a spec sheet from UC Berkeley. It's here:
businessservices.berkeley.edu...

It looks to me like it takes 80 Gallons of Compressed Helium to make 11 Cubic Feet. We need approximately 14.1 Cubic Feet to achieve a lift of .9 lbs.

The flare weighs 363 grams, which comes out to about .8 lbs.

A quick phone call to the retailer should tell you for sure though. Someone who fills these things up regularly should know how many gallons it would take.


-WFA



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 11:12 PM
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Well, I’ve run all the tests I feel need to be done. In short, I’ve had the 36 inch Diameter Latex Balloon inflated to its maximum capacity. I then tied the flare to it with the fishing line.

The flare could not be lifted by the Balloon.

I tried it both inside and outside, and even took it to an alleyway where there was clear wind. No lift.

This guy’s ‘hoax’ just doesn’t work under real world conditions. I think he was lying.

The Flare in Perspective to a Pen, and the Flare’s Purchase Receipt:


The Flare Up Close:


The Flare-Fishing Line-Balloon System Outdoors:


The System Indoors:


I’ve got video of the system blowing in the wind also. Even in the wind, the flare just dragged on the ground. No lift occurred. Perhaps at some point this week I’ll upload the video to youtube and post it here.

I'm anxious to see if anyone can demonstrate a workable system, but I'm really doubting that this guy's story is true. Due to the results of this testing, I'm ready to call this cased closed in my book.


-WFA



posted on May, 11 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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Witness


You rock!!! Unbelievable, thank you thank you thank you, for confirming what most of us knew HAD to be a big ole fat juicy lie!!!

Great pictures, and good job!!! I can't wait to write the letters/e-mails for this whole story to send out to half of Phoenix again...wow, amazing. Feel free to write them as well since you did the leg work on the experiment and proved it to be a lying hoaxer
The more the merrier.

Great great job! I thank you



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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WFA


Awesome work!!! I hate to say it but the only way for this to work would be to inflate more balloon just to lift one flare but that would start to really get to expensive. If it takes 2 balloons per flare that means it would potentially cost $300 for just the balloons!



posted on May, 12 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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It's interesting that you're all working hard to debunk the story of the Hoaxer by showing evidence. The evidence that references what this hoaxer is claiming and non of the lantern peeps here on ATS or anyone else for that matter seem to be too interested. On the verge of proving that this may infact be another cover up yet people are still not that interested. Oh well, at least we have the info we do in order to gain possible interest from the media.



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