Was Pre-Flood (anti-diluvian) man capable of Air Travel?

reply to post by nexusmagazine

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Got any names, or am I supposed to take your word for it?




Evidently it wasn't too ground-breaking, it apparently failed.




Yeah, 200 years ago. Might want to flip your calendar. It's the 21st century.

Just a note: I find your assurances irrelevant. Seems you see a conspiracy everywhere you look. Some would call that paranoia.

cormac

Howdy Duncan

So you have no non-consensus reality, but you mock the consenus version of reality? How odd. Or is this the old ploy "if I never present an opinon or evidence I can never be shown to be wrong", thingy.

Ah so you deny you believe in a world wide conspiracy?



So what does this statement by you imply?



Sounds like a conspiracy to me, what do you classify it as?

I’ll ask again, do you believe in a world-wide conspiracy to surpress archaeological evidence or is it only in the USA?



Okay then why do you say the Virginia case is a cover up? It wasn’t covered up it just wasn’t accepted. Please explain how it was “covered up”

Is her report and all the other ones not freely available?

Oh I used this source as a reminder of that case.

Virgnia's case



It has been my experience that this phrase is used to denote a lack of compelling evidence.

Oh Duncan by the way I believe that Virginia's and the other data had merit and the site should be re-investigated



[edit on 8/5/08 by Hanslune]

Did you ever contact Virginia to hear her version of events? What has been reported about the case - which is NOT very much considering the potential importance of the findings - is not the full picture.
I consider it a coverup because the story has been repeatedly squashed from appearing on any mainstream media outlet, and from being properly presented in peer review magazines. Sure it has been tossed around the internet - but that doesn't count by my definition, because again, most of it has been sanitized.
I have spoken to several other disgruntled archaeologists who basically found themselves in the same position - ie either alter data, shutup, (or both) or face academic extinction. None of these scientists want me to publish their stories - they all just want to keep their jobs. You will never ever hear of any of these cases unfortunately.
You accuse me of believing in a world wide conspiracy - why? Where have I ever said this - in my magazine or anywhere on the internet? Do statements like this reflect your level of accuracy (let alone integrity) - if so, I am wasting my time.
Of course Virginia's case has merit - but the site will never be investigated and reported on - will it? Why is that do you think?
Duncan

Howdy Duncan




Hans: Have you contacted every single person involved in every aspect of every case that has come up in regards to Archaeology over the last fourty years? If not why not?



Hans: It has been in several TV presentations, in books, and her paper and those of the other contributors were published.

Geological evidence for age of deposits at Hueyatlaco archeological site, Valsequillo, Mexico V STEEN-MCINTYRE, R FRYXELL, HE MALDE - Quaternary Research, 1981

I ran her name thru and found four pages of articles she has published on the subject of interest and other aspects of geology.



Hans: What has been removed? Plus you don’t seemed to have researched her peer-reviewed publication record.



Hans: What about those archaeologists who are not in academia or independents? You do know what tenure is don’t you?



Hans: Then we really cannot consider that information to be data we can work with can we? I’ve been involved in the world of Archaeology for 40+ years and have not come upon or heard of such cases as you describe. However where there has been reluctance to publish something from an institution, for any reason, the author has simply published it elsewhere or leaked it.



Hans: Who or what organization is responsible for the claimed sanitization of Virginia’s work? You say someone is preventing media from discussing the case, who is doing that? You talk like there is a vast conspiracy but don’t seem to want to admit it. It’s a puzzling contradiction.



Hans: You keep implying it, I asked the question above to try and clear it up.



Hans: It reflects my reaction to your comments. Who or what is responsible for what you believe is the “coverup” of Viriginia’s work? Oh and my integrity is just fine, I just checked and I'm leaking neither gas or fluids.

Definition of conspiracy
1. a secret plan to carry out an illegal or harmful act
2. the act of making such plans

You seem to be saying this is happening but….



Hans: Why won’t it? Since you insist there is no conspiracy – what’s to stop it? What do you think is so important to keep from being re-identified and re-published at that site? Oh and how do you know it has merit? By what expertise do you make that judgement?

This just in

Duncan I found your rant that the site Virginia wouldn't be relooked at a bit odd so I checked.

Relooking at the site





image source: http://www.centerfirstamericans.org/new/Hueyatlaco2.jpg


For detailed discussions of this case:

1. Hueyatlaco Site and Table Mountain - [www.hallofmaat.com]

2. Hueyatlaco Revisited - [www.hallofmaat.com]

3. The Age of the Hueyatlaco Site Revisited - [www.hallofmaat.com]

4. Re: The Age of the Hueyatlaco Site Revisited - [www.hallofmaat.com]

5. Comments on VanLandingham (2004) - [www.hallofmaat.com]

Removed comments on a co-writer of Virginia's - found some other information that marginalized it.

[edit on 8/5/08 by Hanslune]

Well they aren't all my ideas to claim. It is based on Walt Brown's , Ph.D., hydroplate theory and the Bible timetable of an approximate creation of 6000 years ago. Pangea was created, God gathered the land in one place, He just didn't name it Pangea like we do today. The rest of the earth's surface was ocean. An equal ocean of water was layered beneath the earth's crust & Mantle. See this site for the firmament separation from the original Hebrew: www.creationscience.com...

This water was superheated & compressed by many miles of rock. God provided the release fracture point at the time of the flood for this subterranian water, about 4500 years ago. The prolonged explosion of water-steam puts Krakatoa to shame. Thats like comparing a Nuke to a firecracker. Imagine if you blew up the entire world's nukes in a second, then repeated the process every second continuously for half a year, that might give you an idea of the energy being released.

So young Pangea splits apart, ripped apart, 4500 years ago and starts moving when gravitational forces within the earth seek equilibruim with the mass being displaced by the escape-velocity waters. This shifting mass of the earths core causes the exposed mantle of the atlantic floor to rise, causing the mid-oceanic ridge to form along the route where the most deformation occurs. This rise in land mass causes Pangea, now in pieces, to side away from the rise while still lubricated by the waters below. The continential drift is rapid, only taking days to occur, not millions of years. Energy is conserved, so stopping continents when they run out of lubricant will involve breakage, lifting, and heat energy, all forms of work. There you get fault lines, mountains, & magma.

The idea of Atlantis comes from Plato, that we know of. That knowledge remained although being lost, Plato's understanding of it was limited & had errors. If Plato fully knew what had happened he would have said Atlantis was blasted away into the sky creating the Atlantic ocean, instead we get him saying that it sank into the atlantic. Who knows, there still may be pieces of Atlantis scattered around the Atlantic ocean. Thats why no one can point to just one spot in the ocean and say, "Atlantis was right here.", with any certainty.

So I take it you didn't bother to contact Virginia Steen-McIntyre to find out her side of the story on this topic, which even you admit warrants further site research?
Duh - and what a silly comment back to me - is that the best you can do? Asking me if I have interviewed every archaeologist over the last 40 years - oh dearie me how lame!

Tell you what though, during my 25+ years of investigative journalism - I bet I have met and interviewed many more archaeologists and scientists than you have.

The rest of your cut-and-snippet comments are just more silly time-wasting point-scoring tactics used by losers who try to retain some dignity when they have run out of both manners and facts.
Here endeth my involvement with this discussion.
Duncan

Howdy Duncan

Yeah I guess finding out that they are re-investigating the site really blew your rant out of the water?

We must talk in the future about your inability to say, "conspiracy"

LOL

See ya later Duncan

Howdy TC Mike

Thanks for the detailed description. One question - why all the "nature technology"? Why didn't god just snap his metaphysical finger and just make it happen? Why try to make it sound scientific?

Regards

Hans

The bible and other ancient cultures all speak of flying machines.

You have to remember that sometime between 20000bc and 6000 bc, something geat happened that wiped civilizations not only off the face of the planet but out of our minds and history.


Here is a video called UFO's in the bible

Google Video Link

www.ufoevidence.org...

[edit on 8-5-2008 by IvanZana]

Why bother with science? Well first of all I love science & thinking. I can do math/calculus but its a chore, lol. I was raised on evolutionary science & thinking in public school & college. It was only my persistance in trying to combine my beliefs in the Bible with science that I was able to see that the evidence really does point to Creation. I'm so glad that Ben Stein made his movie, I hope it challenges everyone to think and not accept the world view the majority scientists want you to think.

As for God just snaping his fingers & making the universe without cause & effect, that would make God a liar. God did not make everything as you see it today. If he did, light would take more time to reach the earth from 20 billion light years than just 6000 years. So it would have to have been created light, not actual light from a star, say 50K light years away. Creating light on the way to our planet from all reaches of the universe would imply deception, the event-information we see in that light never actually came from the star but was created. God is not about deception.

Understanding how God created the universe, which was perfect when He did is necessary to understand. A perfect universe, perhaps a smaller universe, with perfect light, not decayed by entropy. Entropy & decay are a result of sin. What super-natural measures did God have to employ after sin entered the universe in order to keep it stable? Did light slow down in the past? Is time running at different rates in different places in the universe? Einstein says it can according to his theory of realitivity. God says he streached forth the heavens in the Bible, yet after the creation week. Do you know what effect this streaching has on the space-time continuum & matter(stars/galaxies) associated with it?

From our earth-based perspective, God has had time running for 6000 years. God created time, matter, & energy, he is not bound by it.

Oh and if I didn't have a scientific perspective all I could say is "because the Bible says so." I really don't think you wanna just hear that.

Howdy TC Mike stated: "Pangea was from around 250 million years ago, so what time frame are your assigning to your idea?"

It is certainly interesting to read the debate concerning this comment, but ultimately even scientists/archaeologists who are Christians have debated the length of time between Genesis 1:1, and Genesis 1:2.

This is because of 2 Peter 3:8, which says, "But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day."

So the Biblical AND the archaeological views concerning eras may in fact, coincide.

Another thing to consider: I once heard Dr Carl Baugh (Curator of the Creation Evidences Museum in Glen Rose, TX) say in an interview that there are actually 2 specific instances mentioned in the Old Testament where God "stretched the fabric of the universe, causing the universe to appear far older than it actually is."

I do not recall which Old Testament scriptures he cited to support this claim, but I recall looking up those scriptures at the time, and found that indeed they do state that.

Scientists also have debated the accuracy of the so-called "Carbon-14 dating" method...so who knows HOW OLD the universe actually is.

Dr Baugh also stated in the same interview that a sort of nuclear meltdown occured in the core of the earth during the flood, causing an extremely high pitched sound to travel into space and blow up a planet, the remnants of which became part of Saturns rings. And (according to Dr. Baugh) NASA has recorded the starsong of each now-known planet in the Solar System, and has stated that there appears to be a note missing from the Solar Music Scale--right where a planet may have been located prior to Noah's flood.

So I agree with what you guys have posted here heretofore.



[edit on 9-5-2008 by livingtorch]

Howdy LT and Mike

I'll let you guys talk bible by yourselves but will ask one question before I flee.



I'll challenge you on that one LT. Can you give us a link or cite to a primary source for that please?

Hey Hans!

After reading your challenge, I Googled the NASA/Starsong thing, and saw your post on the bautforum website. No. I have not gone silent about this.

I'm a full-time Student at the Unversity Of Phoenix online pusuing a Bachelors degree in I.T./Multimedia & Visual Communication, and have not had a chance to check out the progress of this thread for a few days.

You will see below, I merely cited Dr. Carl Baugh on this claim.

"And (ACCORDING TO DR BAUGH) NASA has recorded the starsong of each now-known planet in the Solar System, and (DR BAUGH --sorry, this parenthetical statement was not in the original, but Dr Baugh is who I was referring to here--) has stated that there appears to be a note missing from the Solar Music Scale--right where a planet may have been located prior to Noah's flood."

I went to the Creation Evidence Museum website for confirmation of this quote at www.creationevidence.org. No email address for me to request the confirmation. I tried calling the number on their website, and there was no answer. I even went to the NASA website to confirm this. I performed a search for Starsong, but found nothing there about Starsong at this time. I do recall researching Starsong on NASA's website in the past though.

I'm not sure what else I can do for confirmation here though.

Howdy LT

I think we can set that "quote" at the bottom of a long list of creationist "made up stuff".

Good luck on your degree!