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Global War: Trend, Accident, or Conspiracy?

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posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:35 PM
Alrighty, here is my more detailed outline of future events. Again, the events laid out by Justin hold true, so I will basically fill in the rest of the spaces, focusing especially on the events of the last months of the Bush presidency.

June 8, 2008: Anti-American protests in front of the U.S. embassy in Sana'a, Yemen, forces a Non-combatant Evacuation Operation to be executed. Unfortunately, nearly a hundred civilians are killed when U.S. Marines return fire after three of their own are killed by armed protesters. International perception of the U.S. hits an all-time low.

June 11, 2008: To the shock of the world, relations between Eritrea and Djibouti collapse and Eritrean forces invade Djibouti when U.S. forces of Combined Joint Task Force - Horn of Africa are in the process of a scheduled transition. Thanks to the resiliency of the 2nd Brigade Combat Team (Stryker), 25th Infantry Division and a quick response from the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit (just days removed from their Yemen NEO), the invasion is thwarted within days. The U.S. retaliates by commencing a short-term strike against targets inside Djibouti, crippling its military capability. The operations enjoy broad public support in the U.S., although the world remains skeptical of U.S. involvement in world affairs.

July - September 2008: Much of the summer of 2008 remains quiet after this short streak of disorder. Behind closed doors, however, the Bush administration is aware of the increasing violence and chaos occuring in the Horn of Africa. Eritrea is in danger of descending into anarchy due to the effects of the U.S. bombing campaign. Continuing violence in Somalia as well as rampant piracy off its coasts makes it impossible for any economic progress to be made in the region. Intelligence reports further indicate that terrorist groups, particularly Al-Qaeda, have become quite entrenched in the region in the wake of the recent U.S. involvement. The newly-formed U.S. Africa Command suddenly finds its hands full with one complicated situation after another.

Most visibly, both the mainstream and non-mainstream media, accompanied with many NGOs, point out the genocide and complete breakdown in civil order in Darfur and a Sudan. Factions in Sudan were splintering into smaller factions and splintering again. Some elements are actively opposing the UNMIS intervention. Peacekeepers are shot at, aid ships attacked and prevented from docking, cargo aircraft are fired upon and aid agencies, public and private, are subject to threats, looting and extortion. Meanwhile, hundreds, if not thousands of poverty-stricken refugees are starving or slaughtered to death every day. In effect, the United Nations humanitarian mission is on the verge of catastrophic failure. Through the efforts of the non-mainstream media, as well as humanitarians such as U2's Bono and Angelina Jolie, tales of extraordinary human suffering become ingrained into the public consciousness and become the top news stories of the summer. At major musical events of the summer, such as Bonnaroo, Virgin Festival, and Warped Tour, many musicians voice their support for intervention in the region.

August 5, 2008: The unrest in Sudan forces a massive evacuation of all American nationals from the country. The 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, in an incredibly complex and perilous NEO, successfully evacuate 281 Americans through the embassy in Khartoum. Unfortunately, the Marines engage in combat with various Sudanese militia during the NEO. In response, a U.S. carrier strike group executes a one-time show of force against Sudan, striking specific military targets. These strikes are not well-received by much of the world, including the U.S..

October 9, 2008: As fall comes around, all is rather too quiet for the U.S., as children return to school and the American people gear themselves for a new year that may bring some very tough times. Indeed, all was too quiet. On October 9, a bomb hidden underneath the DJ's booth at Washington, D.C.'s FUR Nightclub, plus another bomb at another club in D.C. explode, killing 202 people. D.C.'s emergency services are overwhelmed, and the initial presumption is that this is an act of Islamic terrorism. Within days, however, the terrorists turn out to be right-wing Christian Identity followers. As a result, this becomes the worst act of domestic terror in American history. Questions arise about the ability of the U.S. government in protecting its populace from its own people.

December 4, 2008: Responding to the pressures generated by images of incredible human suffering in Darfur and Sudan, a massive media circus that persisted into the winter, the failure of the U.N. operation, as well as memories of Americans put in danger by various factions of the country, President Bush announces in an address to the people that he will send a significant task force of U.S. troops with the objective of creating a secure environment for the U.N. operation and other humanitarian missions to work in. Known as the Multinational Task Force, (MULTITAF), the operation commences five days later, with U.S. Marines once again entering Sudan and followed by a considerable world response. UNMIS is temporarily suspended so non-combatants will not be harmed any further. The implementation of MULTITAF becomes the last major decision ever made by George W. Bush as president.

January - April 2009:

(The events laid out by Justin continue to occur)

Having inherited the MOOTW executed by Bush, Obama continues to support the U.N. and its operations. MULTITAF by and large makes progress in the region. However, the program hits a snag when allegations of corruption and human right violations emerge regarding activities of U.S. petroleum corporations and private military companies such as Blackwater Worldwide and DynCorp. Critics of U.S. involvement in the region, such as Pat Buchanan, Noam Chomsky, Ron Paul, Lew Rockwell, as well as several musicians, point out that U.S. involvement in the Horn of Africa has created a perfect environment for oil companies to set up operations with an almost endless stream of mercenaries to help advance the effort. Allegations of a slaughter of an Ethiopian village commited by Blackwater mercenaries are further linked to a U.S. Republican senator. These allegations do not help U.S. world standing one bit.

May 4, 2009: Having created an acceptably safe environment for humanitarian aid to be delivered, MULTITAF is dissolved and UNMIS operations are resumed, this time known as UNMIS II.

That is Part One of my "fill-in-the-blank" campaign, the rest will come in my next post.

[edit on 6-5-2008 by sweatmonicaIdo]

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 09:38 AM
reply to post by sweatmonicaIdo

Wow. Wow is all I can really say about your post. It was so damn realistic and accurate, but it was also like reading a thriller novel. The air of mystery surrounding a lot of these events is phenomenal.

I can sertinly agree with that.. I was taken back and moved by Justins post there! I can say that when I was reading it I felt as if it was really happening!

Now if I had the ear of the president, and that was going on. What would I tell him.. And how would I advise him?

Thats the ultimate tricky question.. With the way I see the top levels controling the lower levels of jobs like the president. I could ask him honestly.. Do you really have a clue whats going on here?
Or are you just taking orders from places above you?

I would first need to get to the base roots of where our president is getting his information. And how that is being filtered threw the channles.

I would be bold enough to ask him.. Are you ready to step up aginst the true evils of this world, and try to seek the truth with your fellow people?
Are you ready to start being honest with yourself first?
And then I guess we could go from there.. But upmost I would need to know if he understands he is only a pawn in this high stakes game of life.

Does he have any real power? Or is that just an illusion.

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 01:55 AM
I see. Looks like we've got some holes in the plot, but let me see what I can do with this. I'll be back in 24 hours.

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 03:15 PM

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
I see. Looks like we've got some holes in the plot, but let me see what I can do with this. I'll be back in 24 hours.

I just heard from S.M. Seems that he's got more for us, so I'll wait and see what comes.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 12:08 AM
Here is Part 2 of my vision of the future. It will basically pick up where Justin left off. Since we have not decided whether the terrorist attack is successful or not, I will sort of leave that entire part of the story blank and leave it for Justin to fill in later, since he has a better grasp on how things will go down. I personally have no idea what a response to a successful or unsuccessful nuclear 9/11 would be, nor do I have much grasp on how military plans would be maneuvered. My hope is Justin will take care of that. Regardless of whether the bomb goes off or not, I will assume the preceeding events will still occur.

Here we go with Part 2:

June 5, 2009: As if there was not enough strife in the world, 24 U.N. peacekeepers are ambushed in Darfur and killed. World outrage is intense, but the story is overwhelmed in the media due to the security situation in the United States.

June 6, 2009: The violence in Sudan has now reached a fever pitch, as four Blackwater employees are killed, along with four State Department personnel, as well as five Marines in an ambush in Khartoum. Both the public as well as the U.N. begin to question whether MULTITAF was truly successful in its mission of providing a safe, secure environment for UNMIS to take place.

June 8, 2009: Angelina Jolie is killed while visiting a village in Darfur with an MTV camera crew when Janjaweed guerrillas attack the village. The attack in caught on MTV's cameras, but the footage is never revealed to the public.

June 9, 2009: Unable to simply ignore the hellish situation in Sudan any longer, Obama allows AFRICOM to authorize a mission to pacify the sections of Khartoum under the control of the local guerrillas and warlords. The operation, led by U.S. Marines, commences on June 12 and is largely unsuccessful in restoring security to the capital city.

June - August, 2009: UNMIS II spends the summer teetering on the brink of success or failure many times over. The violence does not seem to be decreasing and both the White House and Pentagon are concerned U.S. forces in Sudan are running out of ideas and steam. However, the larger scope of the War on Terror and the situation with Iran makes any withdrawal from Africa perilous.

July, 2009: Historians and sociologists will later note that rates of alcoholism, drug abuse, crime, and incest peak during this time, due to the psychological effects of the terrorist attack and the recession.

July 2, 2009: A major benefit concert set up Bob Gedolf and Bono begins. The concert is aimed at raising a large amount of aid money for Sudan. Security for the concert is at an incredible high and attendence is unusually high in the U.S. in spite of the security situation and the expensive tickets. The concert pays tribute to Angelina Jolie and all the civilian deaths in Sudan.

August 22, 2009: With the situation in Sudan in doubt, commanders on the ground in Africa request special operations forces in order to conduct small-scale offensive operations against individual warlords and the multitude of subnational factions. An independent news source in Sudan interviews various members of MULTITAF and reactions to the deployment are mixed. The protracted low-intensity conflict, coupled with the witnessing of horrifying atrocities, as well as terrorism, have taken a heavy toll on the peacekeepers.

August 24, 2009: The special operations package, named Task Force Serpent, lands in Sudan.

Late August - Early September 2009: Children return to school, many go off to college, but the general national attitude is on the downside. Many sense impending doom, but quite cannot get their finger on what it is. The regional war with Iran, which was expected for nearly three months, has not materialized. Families become very regressed into their own worlds in hopes that will keep them safe from an outside world that has fallen apart.

During this time, the U.S., the U.K., and Israel will have formulated a way to convince the world that Iran has complicity in the terrorist attack and is a threat to world peace. Sometime during this stretch of time, plans for war with Iran have been activated and U.S. forces begin positioning themselves for a massive air and naval campaign, followed by a police action-style ground assault on Iran. Justin will elaborate on how this will actually play out.

During meetings with his National Security Council, Obama will contemplate either a blockade, an air strike and blockade, or a full assault on Iran. A full assault is estimated to result in 50,000 American casualties, plus the employment of biological and chemical weapons against Coalition forces.

Monday, September 14, 2009: Various sources begin to report that a large amount of U.S. aircraft and naval ships have come within striking distance of Iran. The White House refuses to comment on any military positioning, but unnamed sources in D.C. indicate that the U.S. is just days away from a major assault on Iran. Later that day, the U.S. Secretary of State arrives at the U.N. and requests approval of a resolution to authorize the use of force if the government of Iran does not surrender to the will of the U.N. resolutions. Russia and China, particularly, China, vehemently object.

Tuesday, September 15, 2009: China releases satellite photographs which reveal a substantial amount of U.S., U.K., and Israeli firepower in the Gulf region, primed for action. At the U.N., China notes how U.S. ships have positioned themselves as if conducting a blockade. The photos show an Expeditionary Brigade-sized amphibious force, a carrier strike group in the Persian Gulf, one near the Strait of Hormuz, one in the Arabian Sea, plus an additional strike group supporting AFRICOM operations in the Red Sea. Citing this evidence, China states that it will come to the aid of Iran if necessary. The stock market subsequently plunges as fears of World War III spike in the public sphere.

Wednesday, September 16, 2009: China makes it stick. In an unprecedented display of non-U.S. power projection unseen since the days of the USSR, China places several airborne units on alert and prepares an airlift to transport them to the Middle East. An airborne command post begins flying west, and several air force units are placed on alert. Unconfirmed reports indicate that at least a single airborne unit and several transport planes have arrived in western Kazakhstan, with the approval of the Kazakh government. The U.S. military is placed on DEFCON 4.

Throughout the U.S. fears of an impending world war creates a bum rush for the gas stations, supermarkets, department stores, etc. Many supermarkets experience shortages of goods and products. Some parents choose to hold their children from school for safety reasons and because "there is no point."

Thursday, September 17, 2009: Fear and panic continues to build not just in the U.S., but throughout the world. People attempt to carry on with their daily lives, but many find it incredibly difficult to do so; they have not faced anything close to this in over 20 years. A CBS News poll reveals that support for action against Iran is split nearly in half.

Eschatology (End Times) experiences a surge in popularity, particularly among the evangelical Christian community, who are convinced that the events of the past two years indicate the End of the World is nigh. Many ministers publically call for Americans to repent, while others publically blame homosexuality, feminism, and whatever else they can think of for the End of the World.

2130 EST, Thursday, September 17, 2009: The U.S. National Security Advisor reveals to the president his/her preference to face China down and continue with the planned action against Iran. Israel reminds the U.S. it plans to carry out military actions against Iran with or without U.S. and U.N. support.

0700 EST, Friday, September 18, 2009: President Obama chooses to press on to maintain the current course, in hopes cooler heads will prevail. In a press conference, he announces his intentions and reminds the world he will not be deterred.

2030 EST, Friday, September 18, 2009: The People's Liberation Army asserts it is prepared to assist Iran should it come under attack. The PLA also states it will respond with a "full retaliation" should Chinese forces come under attack.

2035 EST, Friday, September 18, 2009: Satellite intelligence reveals increased activity among Chinese strategic forces. Analysts believe that China is seriously considering a nuclear strike against the U.S. should a major clash occur between U.S. and Chinese forces.

2100 EST, Friday, September 18, 2009: Obama is informed of China's nuclear capability. The conclusion reached among members of the National Security Council is that China would utilize its nuclear arsenal in the event its forces were defeated by the U.S.

2200 EST, Friday, September 18, 2009: Although no official announcement was ever made, Fox News shocks the nation when it becomes the first to inform America of an imminent nuclear strike. The "presses are stopped" and within half an hour, every news channel becomes a mix of analysts' comments and live coverage from correspondents across the country, creating a disturbing impact. Discussion begins with the threat presented by China, then moves to what many believe is the inability of the U.S. to handle a major nuclear attack by another strategic power, drawing upon the experiences of 9/11, Hurricane Katrina, and the near-chaos that erupted during the terrorist attack in May.

Not long after the news breaks, there are reports of looting in Hollywood. By midnight, hospitals, gas stations, and supermarkets across America are being ransacked.

Just like what Justin faced, the T&Cs don't allow me to go past 10,000 characters, so I'll have to continue Part 2 with a Part B. Feel free to comment on what I have so far

[edit on 8-5-2008 by sweatmonicaIdo]

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 03:23 AM
Actually...I was refering to the part of the terms and conditions for membership which do not allow graphic or explicit descriptions of certain violent acts because The Amigos don't want to get busted for featuring "how to" material on their site.

We need to be very careful here about what we post. There's a lot I can tell you about terror cell operations. I can't do that because the t & c's don't allow it.

I can be a lot more specific about a lot of things you see in this forum, but I'm limited by the membership terms and conditions just like everybody else. If I were too specific, somebody might follow my "blueprint" and the ATS guys could be held liable. So...

Let's do what we can within these guidelines. Step back and re-read the
t & c's if you need to, but let's play by the rules no matter what. Nobody needs to get banned.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 03:28 AM
My take on this can be viewed at the thread below. It explains the build-up of the current dangerous dynamics we having going on:

NWO and the collision course between SuperPowers

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 05:13 AM

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
When I'm not here on ATS, I am known as the author of political fiction. I'm just doing what amounts to my day job by laying these things out in a way that's interesting. I'll be looking forward to what the others have to say.

You are all forgetting one very important point. ALL 'terrorist' groups are state-sponsored. And ALL of them are infiltrated by other states agents. If ANY 'terrorist' event happens, it is let happen. The Intel agencies are interlocked and intercooperate far more than the movies and airport fictions even speculate. Gladio was just the tip of the iceberg, and is a perfect example of the willingness and methods employed.
A few years back, before the war on terror, the big enemy was 'right wing extremists'. So guess what? Intel and law enforcement agencies in New Zealand, Canada, Australia, UK, USA and a dozen European countries all set up 'right wing extremist' groups, which pulled a few idiot skinheads out of the public and made for good TV news clips. The skinheads were incited to deface synagogues and smash a few windows, and then pre-tipped off police and media usually turned up to catch them. Most of those countries got hate-crimes Acts through government as a result of this - resulting in the beginning of an ongoing series of loss of civil liberties.

Spook infiltration of unions, media, student groups, etc etc etc occurs waaaay more than even the most paranoid ones on ATS dare speculate.
If ANY terrorist incident happens of significance - it was a state planned incident. Period! The "terrorists" are the last to know what they are doing in such cases, as they don't actually control anything.

Creating the controllable outside threat - is a proven and tried tactic to unite one's nation and bring them more under your control. It is as simple as that - and ALL the great powers do it. ALL of them! India, France, Russia, Israel, Italy, UK, USA, China etc - have used state-controlled 'terrorist' groups to kill their own citizens - all to increase state control in some way or another - or to justify war against someone else.

Before anyone starts flaming me for daring to speak with any authority, I would tell you that during my 25 years in investigative journalism and publishing, I have interviewed and met many experts from what you would call both 'sides' of terrorism, particular in the middle east. (I even met Stokely Carmichael and heard his side of what happened in terms of FBI infiltration of the Black Panthers.)

I recommend the movie "Syriana" as an example of just a little of how things really work.

And by the way, I enjoyed your progression of events. You just needed to realise that terrorist groups that just get up and go bomb/kill for a cause are not allowed to pull off significant events like this - without behind the scenes help and cooperation. It just don't happen. Put the behind-the-scenes-culprits in the plot - and I'll buy it next time I fly


posted on May, 8 2008 @ 01:49 PM

Originally posted by nexusmagazine
I enjoyed your progression of events. You just needed to realise that terrorist groups that just get up and go bomb/kill for a cause are not allowed to pull off significant events like this - without behind the scenes help and cooperation. It just don't happen. Put the behind-the-scenes-culprits in the plot - and I'll buy it next time I fly

Your point is well taken, but I have to stand on what I said before. This web site's t & c's prevent me from going in to greater detail. I like hat I do here, so I will not risk getting the boot.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 09:43 PM
Here is Part 2B of the story of World War III. Although this is meant to be educational and serious, if you find yourself enthralled by this, do not fret - there is a Part 3 yet to come.

2230 EST, Friday, September 18, 2009: President Obama approaches the Chinese ambassador with evidence of China's strategic weapons preparations. The ambassador denies that his country is making any preparations to wage nuclear war with the U.S. Obama is not convinced, however, and bluntly threatens China with a retaliatory strike on the first sign that China has launched a missile. He also tells the Chinese ambassador that any Chinese military involvement in Iran will make their forces fair targets by U.S., U.K., and Israeli forces.

After the ambassador leaves, Obama, after consulting with the rest of the National Command Authority, orders the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff to execute CONPLAN 8044, the nation's new nuclear war plan, as a precautionary measure. The "Football" is brought to the president and after a lengthy consultation, Obama decides on a major counterforce attack, aimed at destroying China's military and political apparatus. This order is transmitted to the National Military Command Center at the Pentagon, which then releases an Emergency Action Message to all strategic-level forces, calling for preparations for nuclear warfare. STRATCOM goes to DEFCON 2, while the rest of the military is ordered to DEFCON 3.

2300 EST, Friday, September 18, 2009: By now, CONPLAN 8044 is well underway and U.S. forces around the world are armed and ready. Three Ohio-class SSBNs are now prepared to launch their Trident SLBMs. B-2 stealth bombers are fitted with nuclear bombs and prepped to carry out the first strike when ordered to. Carrier strike groups in the Persian Gulf and around the world have selected aircraft fitted with nuclear bombs and surface warships have their nuclear-armed Tomahawks prepared for launch. Minuteman III ICBMs are readied inside of their silos in the central U.S., with all U.S. strategic command and control centers manned and online. the E-6B Mercury STRATCOM Airborne Command Post is patrolling the skies, prepared to take over if need be. An E-4B is prepared at Offutt Air Force Base, Nebraska, for use by the National Command Authority should a nuclear strike become imminent.

0000 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: Massive anti-American protests erupt in Beijing outside the U.S. embassy.

Back at the White House, concerned over what many anticipate to be the start of civil disorder, all military reservists and National Guardsmen are activated. Some fire and police departments order all its personnel to report to their stations.

0100 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: Both the Japanese and South Korean governments warn their citizens that China may use nuclear weapons against their countries. South Korea places its military on high alert, ostensibly in preparation for a possible North Korean attack.

0830 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: The Americans who did manage to sleep through an otherwise sleepless night awake to find all television programming suspended by the respective channels and networks. The channels that provide news enlist the help of countless correspondents and experts who help prepare the nation for a nuclear first strike. Unfortunately, very little advice is given, for there is very little to give. The general impression is that the U.S. is completely unprepared for nuclear war on any level, quite possibly never was, and that the "living will envy the dead."

Some workplaces and school districts close themselves for the day, while other workplaces and most vital services remain open. The U.S. government continues to deny the possibility of nuclear war with China, concerned that any admission of the crisis would create a civil disaster of biblical proportions. As a result, each channel and network takes it upon themselves to help prepare the public for disaster, reassuring them and urging them not to panic and not to leave in a disorderly fashion.

0845 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: Wall Street is eeriely empty, as most employees have not shown up to work. Within an hour, Wall Street will close, and the Federal Reserve will suspend trading.

0900 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: A fishing trawler spots the mast of what appears to be a be a submarine off the coast of Crescent City, California. The sighting is reported to the Coast Guard, who reports it to higher authorities. U.S. naval forces immedietely respond, searching desperately for the Unidentified Submerged Object, but the search turns up nothing.

1000 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: Across the United States, reports of murder, looting, fires and mob violence storm in from every corner. The cities of Los Angeles, New Orleans, Washington, D.C., New York City, Chicago, Dallas, and even in the suburbs and rural areas of Middle America are engulfed by a level of civil disorder that eclipses that of the 1992 Los Angeles riots. The disorder, which began with the Fox News report of an imminent nuclear strike, has persisted for over ten hours now. Initially, it was reported that gang warfare and opportunists were primarily responsible for the violence, but by now its clear that middle class families have joined in on the looting, stuffing their cars with stolen food and supplies. Some families, children in tow, have armed themselves and killed in order to obtain resources. Cities are ravaged and suburbs torn apart. The stories are apocalyptic and due to the aforementioned T&Cs, I cannot elaborate on them, although I could if allowed to do so. I will say, though, that the country is in complete anarchy by this time. Fire departments receive calls of fires and medical emergencies at a rate of two calls per minute at one point and local law enforcement agencies are completely overwhelmed.

Meanwhile, those who were able to make it onto the interstates find them clogged with miles of traffic. Families on the West Coast and the Midwest make a run for the mountains, hoping that will be far enough from the blasts.

In the U.S. embassy in Beijing, the ambassador to China warns China the U.S. will return a nuclear strike without warning if China does not back down. In response, the Chinese foreign minister informs the ambassador that a ballistic missile submarine is indeed in the Pacific Ocean and is now within striking distance of Washington, D.C.

1200 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: President Obama is told directly by his ambassador in Beijing that a Chinese ballistic missile submarine is within striking distance of the nation's capital. Although the possibility exists the Chinese are bluffing, the risk is still too real and the National Security Adviser estimates that a nuclear strike is still two hours away. Obama orders all Allied forces in the Persian Gulf to cease all operations, with the exception of surveillance aircraft and that nobody would fire unless fired upon. There is confusion over the number of submarines actually present in the Pacific. The Navy reports the possibility of a submarine off the coast of California, in addition to the one reported by the Chinese. However, it is not known if the Chinese were referring to the one off the coast of California or an entirely separate one. The National Security Council realizes the Chinese can carry out a nuclear strike without any chance of a timely response by the U.S. More importantly, they determine the only way to prevent a strike at this point is to surrender any right to military action in the Persian Gulf, against Iran. The U.S. must in effect pass the superpower torch to China in order to prevent the apocalypse.

1230 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: A U.S. submarine detects a third Chinese submarine in the Pacific Ocean, this one off the coast of Los Angeles.

Looks like I'll need a part 2C. Please comment on EVERYTHING I have so far.

[edit on 8-5-2008 by sweatmonicaIdo]

posted on May, 9 2008 @ 01:48 AM
Slow down, and take your time. Your progression is a little inconsistent. I know you're not trying to write a thriller, but pay attention to the way your events line up.

Chinese subs in the pacific is fine and well, but they're not stealth boats (are they?). The approaches to the West Coast outer continental shelf are thick iwht SOSUS and similar systems.

Any nuke boat that left port in the Asian Pacific Rim would be monitored. ASW out of Guam would hear a shrimp fart in the South China Sea. The approach of any SSN would be known, and the Presidient would be briefed early and often.

As scary as the ICBM threat was to the kids of the Cold War, it's a different ball game today. Remember that ASW and carrier battle groups run excersizes to force enemy subs to surface.

The approach scenario you suggest relies on the expectation that there's nobody in the water to interivene. If that's the case, you need to say so. In our near future, budget cut backs could sideline a lot of our naval tonnage.

Even so, a Chinese nuke boat in strike range of the U.S. would be matched by one or more of our own. That says nothing about the boomers.

Just take your time with this and be thorough.

[edit on 9-5-2008 by Justin Oldham]

posted on May, 9 2008 @ 02:30 AM
Well at this stage I am following this thread rather then taking an active part . I will say this thou IMO the US cant afford in economic terms to fight the War on Terror and maintain a military that can fight a war with China . Anyway so far the only thing that makes me happy about sweatmonicaIdo what has posted is that nothing happens South of Korea and Japan . Although not connected to the war in the Gulf there is a RNZN frigate deployed to the Gulf . In theory the RNZN could get caught in the cross fire .

The thought of China targeting maritime(SP?) trade routes hardly fills me with joy.

posted on May, 9 2008 @ 10:48 AM

Originally posted by Justin Oldham
Chinese subs in the pacific is fine and well, but they're not stealth boats (are they?). The approaches to the West Coast outer continental shelf are thick iwht SOSUS and similar systems.

SOSUS was a system that was exclusive to the GIUK Gap, where the Cold War submarine threat was most severe. I've taken a look around and I cannot find any such system operational today that exists in the Pacific Ocean.

Any nuke boat that left port in the Asian Pacific Rim would be monitored. ASW out of Guam would hear a shrimp fart in the South China Sea. The approach of any SSN would be known, and the Presidient would be briefed early and often.

I'm no ASW expert by any means, but to say that the approach of any submarine would be known is a major stretch. Granted, the Soviets were better submariners than the Chinese of today, but Soviet submarines frequently came within an arms length (in submariner terms) of the American coast during the Cold War.

As scary as the ICBM threat was to the kids of the Cold War, it's a different ball game today. Remember that ASW and carrier battle groups run excersizes to force enemy subs to surface.

Detecting submarines is not as easy as it seems. In fact, the largely unreported results of various naval exercises done in the past show that at least the U.S. has a very dismal record when it comes to detecting submarines. One small part of my thesis is meant to show the limitations of our Air Force and Navy.

The approach scenario you suggest relies on the expectation that there's nobody in the water to interivene. If that's the case, you need to say so. In our near future, budget cut backs could sideline a lot of our naval tonnage.

One word: geography. Simply having a response force is not enough, that response force must be able to actually cover all that territory. There could be two carrier strike groups in the Pacific yet it would be quite possible for a small submarine to slip right through due to the sheer size of the Pacific Ocean. Not to mention three of our twelve carrier strike groups are in the Persian Gulf with another on the way, one in the Horn of Africa, one in the Sea of Japan, one in the Mediterranean, and another in the North Atlantic. We're pretty spread thin here.

I also made it pretty clear there was plenty of intervention:

U.S. naval forces immedietely respond, searching desperately for the Unidentified Submerged Object, but the search turns up nothing.

Even so, a Chinese nuke boat in strike range of the U.S. would be matched by one or more of our own. That says nothing about the boomers.

Re-read the following. This is hours before a Chinese submarine is ever detected.

2300 EST, Friday, September 18, 2009: By now, CONPLAN 8044 is well underway and U.S. forces around the world are armed and ready. Three Ohio-class SSBNs are now prepared to launch their Trident SLBMs. B-2 stealth bombers are fitted with nuclear bombs and prepped to carry out the first strike when ordered to. Carrier strike groups in the Persian Gulf and around the world have selected aircraft fitted with nuclear bombs and surface warships have their nuclear-armed Tomahawks prepared for launch. Minuteman III ICBMs are readied inside of their silos in the central U.S., with all U.S. strategic command and control centers manned and online. the E-6B Mercury STRATCOM Airborne Command Post is patrolling the skies, prepared to take over if need be. An E-4B is prepared at Offutt Air Force Base, Nebraska, for use by the National Command Authority should a nuclear strike become imminent.

I thought it was made pretty clear U.S. strategic forces are ready to dance within a few hours of the initial news leak. I confess that I should've let the positions of our SSBNs be known, however:

USS Nebraska: Northern Pacific
USS Louisiana: Southern Pacific
USS Rhode Island: Arctic Ocean

Also, understand the thinking on both sides here. Neither wants to suffer a nuclear first strike. But neither wants to be the one to strike first either. What the Chinese figured (long before this entire situation emerged, thus they deployed their submarines), if it seems as though nuclear war is imminent, they want the ability to destroy an American city in less than ten minutes, creating a major shock effect.

Just take your time with this and be thorough.
[edit on 9-5-2008 by Justin Oldham]

I don't feel like any of this was Tom Clancy-esque fantasy. It would've been easy to get carried away and come up with some Hollywood doomsday story, but I wanted to keep things as realistic as possible and I've felt I've done that. Judging from your response, it seems like the only thing that's really in question is the naval power of the Chinese and I figured that would be the case. I also do confess that as you noted, the progression is a bit wacky, but maybe I should've noted that by 2009, China is well on its way to becoming a major air and naval power.

If there's anything else you see as unrealistic, let me know; I want this to be real!!!

[edit on 9-5-2008 by sweatmonicaIdo]

posted on May, 9 2008 @ 03:30 PM
I'm satisfied that you've explained your thinking. What comes next? Just keep those terms and conditions in mind.

posted on May, 10 2008 @ 08:56 PM
Sorry for the delay folks. The storyline in my next isntallment will get even more dicey than it is already (as if it could get any dicier). I need a little bit of time to pull it all together.

posted on May, 11 2008 @ 01:35 AM
Before my next installment, I want to explain the point behind this thread. This is not necessarily an exploration of economics, politics, and military affairs simply "current events." Rather, I am driven by the following quote by L. Fletcher Prouty:

The organizing principle of any society is for war. The basic authority of a modern state over its people resides in its war powers. . . .

L. Fletcher Prouty may have had some crackpot thoughts, but I feel the essence of the above quote is very important. Whether we believe it or not, the one certainty in life is the need to survive. As a result, it is no surprise that all societies have built their social structures, institutions, and organizations around the basis of security and have some link to the agencies that provide warfighting functions in society. To best illustrate this concept, the 15-year-old kid doing crack after school is not just the product of his immediete physical/social environment; he is also a product of America's war against the Colombian drug cartels.

What I am espousing in this thread is not a conspiracy theory, as I have to emphasize once again. Rather, it is an exploration of the relationship between the modern nation-state, its bureaucratic military force, big corporate business, and the general public, and how all these groups come together in an attempt to survive, both individually and as a group, in this new globalized, post-modern world. They were never a monolithic group, they are not controlled by some single elite group. Rather, they are all a bunch of elite groups, clearly in collusion as well as conflict with one another. The oil industry has its ties in the government, just as the computer industry does in other areas of the government.

In order to understand my reasoning for some events happening the way they do, understand that its all a matter of balance. The oil industries need profits, but the government needs to fulfill its agendas and commitments to the country (and the world) as well. The military must fulfill it duty, at the same time justify its existence, which will then in turn justify the existence of various industries as well as the state. The military and war is the X-factor here.

Most importantly, this is not an evil cabal of men plotting to initiate a New World Order. Rather, its simply a structural condition thatforces and influences these people to exploit and seek higher profits, to regulate the economy, and to engage in wars that will result in cataclysm. We try to rationalize what is going no, but to rationalize is futile. These things happen because that's how things ended up being.

The point? Blame society's problems on the Power Elite: The Military-Industrial Complex. Just don't think of it as a conspiracy.

posted on May, 11 2008 @ 03:28 AM
Great thread guys, good topic and indepth analysis is fantastic. Justin, I didnt realise you made conspiracy master status.....congratulations and apoligies if this has happened a while ago

anyway, Ive mention the OP's "type" of situation before in another ATS thread that circled around the ramifications of a Militant Islamic Coup in Pakistan and the possiblity of an Islamic "Confederacy" (I cant think of the correct word at the moment), with the potential to be knocking on Europes door, China's door, Russia and Australia, Oh and India too. Plus them being nuclear.

Sorry to go off topic but I'll be brief - A militant Islamic nuclear threat on the border of China is just as significant as the threat to israel and the US and its allies in the mideast. What if China's beckons to make an example out of Pakistan, and instill upmost fear both into Iran to hold their weapons manufacture, aswell as Israel and US to hold their strike plans?

This militant coup in Pakistan could also happen amongst both your hypotheticals as western military buildup causes militants to attempt and succedd in overthrowing some of their governments.

Just thought Id throw that into the equation, China wiping out a militant pakistan as a threat to the rest of the world with the newfound strength.

Okay, back to what you guys were saying - lets also mix into the equation the increasing price of oil along with the buildup of tension in the Gulf? Fuel becomes unbuyable to average people, associated transport costs raise the price of food to the point that people are rioting and raiding local supermarkets and warehouses to get expensive daily supplies.

increases i shooting along with this newfound urban disputes drags police and government resources away from other areas, Possibly certain suburbs are "locked down". dont look good for whoever is in next administration.

Lets throw in the Draft here, not sure if its been mentioned yet. With the military buildup everywhere and the conflicts in Africa, now with added social/civil unrest at home, a growing cause of local marshall law situations begins to escalate, people are becoming angry at everything.....and on and on.

you guys get the drift, and would know better than me what it'd be like on US soil, just thought, as requested that I throw my 2 cents in.

posted on May, 12 2008 @ 10:04 AM
I am glad to see you here, MM. We're saiting for SM to bring us the next installment in his thesis. So far, its an interesting theory discussion.

posted on May, 12 2008 @ 11:33 PM
Here is the long-awaited Part 2C. Before we get back to the main effort, let me inform you of a new, all-important development that will have major significance in future events.

The media's overwhelming focus on the Iraq War and the humanitarian disaster in Sudan has overshadowed some very troubling events in a powerful ally of the U.S.: Saudi Arabia. Radical islamic fighters, who form the insurgency against the House of Saud as well as Western influences in the kingdom, reach a very violent incarnation starting in late summer of 2008 and onwards. In fact, one of Obama's first intelligence briefs informs him that Saudi Arabian insurgents have increasingly become responsible for a large proportion of attacks on Coalition forces in Iraq. In fact, not much to anyone's surprise, many of the terrorists involved in the attempted nuclear terror on the U.S. are Saudi Arabian in origin.

In late August, just prior to the intensification of the war footing against Iran, the Saudi Arabian government and intelligence agencies report that the insurgency has gathered steam and "displayed unusual strength and solidarity." There is concern in both the kingdom and the U.S. that the insurgency has reached a point of critical mass, one that could potentially destabilize the entire country. Obama knows that a successful war with Iran requires a stable Saudi Arabia, but this prospect is now seriously in doubt.

posted on May, 12 2008 @ 11:37 PM
Now that we're caught up, let Armageddon reign!!!

1300 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: America is burning. In a decision that will be scrutinzed for years to come, President Obama finally declares a national state of emergency, along with a declaration of a AIR DEFENSE EMERGENCY by NORAD, acknowledging the spread of the fear of a nuclear strike, as well as the specter of nuclear war could not be hidden from the public any longer. The National Guard, State Defense Forces, and Civil Air Patrol of all states were mobilized to take control of the situation. In light of the declaration of emergency, Washington, D.C. ends up suffering the worst of the rioting (due to T&Cs, I will censor what actually occurred). The Department of Defense is prepared to be moved to Site R in Pennsylvania, while Congress and the Executive Branch, including the president, is prepared to be moved to Mount Weather in Virginia, along with the Federal Emergency Management Agency. By now, the National Guard and Marine Corps controlled most metropolitan areas, while looting gangs and factions controlled other areas. The entire U.S. military goes to DEFCON 1.

By now, every street and highway is clogged with vehicles and pedestrians, with fights breaking out due to pent-up anger and frustration and a desire to survive. Some families are unlucky enough to become separated, children left to fend for themselves and the crime and disorder show no signs of relenting. Some police and fire departments have completely given up efforts, limiting their services to providing medical care and protecting citizens, and otherwise letting the looting continue and allowing buildings to burn. The public transportation system has come to a screeching halt, airlines completely abandoning their schedules and moving their aircraft to Canada or Latin America. Newspapers release special "nuclear holocaust survival" editions, while TV news speculates on China's nuclear capabilities.

Some TV channels and radio stations choose to cease programming and head home to be with their families. In a never-to-be-forgotten moment, a radio station serving the Kansas City area signs off with the following statement: "We’re going off the air now. Good bye, and God bless."

Not everyone is willing to say goodbye, however. Back in Beijing, where it is early morning, the U.S. ambassador to China discusses possible ways of defying prophecy and preventing the End of the World. The ambassador points out that the attack on Iran has been held, while also noting the DEFCON 1 status and the total readiness of U.S. strategic forces. The Chinese in turn request that Obama withdraw its forces from the Persian Gulf and in exchange the Chinese president will stand his nuclear forces down and remove this forces from Kazakhstan. Numerous other economic conditions are laid out and these conditions are transmitted to President Obama by the ambassador. China gives the U.S. a three-hour deadline.

1500 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: The desperate search for the Chinese submarine(s) continues in the Pacific. Meanwhile, the rest of the world has fallen into turmoil due to the nuclear standoff. U.S. troops in Sudan are on high alert, ready to fight off any attackers who feel they may have nothing to lose now that America is about to end its reign.

The Prime Minister of the U.K. phones Obama, affirming his continuing military support in the Persian Gulf as well as expressing his condolences over the civil unrest in the U.S. Fortunately for the U.K., British society has remained under far better control due to their previous experiences in being a nation in distress.

Back in the U.S. immigration takes on a whole different face. Many Americans in the southern U.S. flee into Mexico, but are shot by Mexican police, who are attempting to deal with internal unrest of their own. Canada, on the other hand, has opened up its borders to the U.S., encouraging people to continue up north in order to prevent congestion in cities such as Calgary, Montreal, Ontario, Ottawa, and Vancouver. Prior to the national state of emergency declaration by the president and the AIR DEFENSE EMERGENCY declaration by NORAD, many of the wealthy have used their private planes and yachts to escape to remote paradises in the Caribbean and South Pacific. In an extremely gutsy move, in spite of the continuity of government preparations made by the U.S. government, the White House press corps convince Obama to stay at the White House, warning that a presidential evacuation would indeed confirm a nuclear attack is imminent and cause even greater civil disorder. Federal control of the nation is hanging by threads at this point.

The Cabinet discusses which path to take. Some believe it is best to accept the Chinese offer, while others believe the confrontation should continue until China backs down. The question is one of continued American hegemony at the expense of potentially billions of lives versus the safety of the world with the end of Pax Americana. The meeting was constantly interrupted due to the persistent interventions by demonstrators and rioters. By now, the White House, Capitol Hill, and other government buildings in the U.S. have become garrisons, heavily guarded by National Guardsmen, Marines, and police and security of numerous agencies. Obama instructs his press secretary to release a statement saying that no government officials were evacuating to any safe locations, and that those who were evacuating were simply going home to be with their families. The government would continue to function in the capital, although Alex Jones will later assert this was an indication that the American people finally exerted its control over the federal government by holding them hostage in Washington.

As the meeting reached an end, a report came in stating that the U.S. Navy had positively identified a Xia-class SSBN off the coast of Los Angeles and had evidence the submarine had made preparations to launch its missiles. At the DIA, mobile ballistic missile launchers are spotted via satellite, ready to fire. One more time, the White House press corps calls on the president for action against increasingly hostile crowds surrounding federal buildings across America. Complete anarchy now seems mere minutes away, the people vs. the federal government.

Finally, in another move that will be heavily-scrutinized, President Obama finally orders the activation of the Emergency Alert System, giving the government full control of the airwaves. The EAS instructed the country to stand by for an announcement by the president. Helicopters using loudspeakers ordered people to go home and wait for the announcement. A few do, but most remained right where they were. In Washington and New York, the crowds maintained their siege of government spaces, but gathered around television sets and radios. The crowds and unrest quieted down, however, and crowds in other parts of the country began to disperse on their own. Some went to sit on the grass or in public spaces, curious as to what was in store. Those stranded on the streets tuned to their radios, while smaller towns rigged public announcement systems and large screens in parks. Meanwhile, in the Minuteman silos and onboard the Trident submarines, crews were ordered to prepare for imminent launch. Launch orders were authenticated and keys were inserted and warheads armed.

1600 EST, Saturday, September 19, 2008: President Obama prepares to deliver the statement of the century, if not of all history, which is slated to begin at 1730. As camera crews set up inside the Oval Office, Obama takes time to thank each individual member of his cabinet and his staff for their professionalism, support, and civic duty, noting that the country is in debt to them. He admits that he has no idea what the world will look like in another thirty minutes and confesses that he never thought they'd make it this far. He says off the record that if this is indeed all she wrote, it was truly a privilege having been their president. Although they continue to maintain their calm and professional facade, they find it is becoming increasingly difficult to suppress their emotions.

Across America, every single being stops in their tracks, awaiting the fateful message. Others have gone to church for confessions and last rites, while many elderly couples sit together on their porches, watching the sun set. Others huddle together, sing songs, reminisce of better times, and reaffirm their loves and friendships, make up, say goodbye, and forgive past sins. Unfortunately, some continue to preach anger and terror, continuing to blame immorality, homosexuality, video games, whatever they can think of for the arrival of Armageddon. But still others choose to go down in peace. U.S. military forces across the U.S. maintain their professional demeanor, preparing for total nuclear war, but deep inside, they are scared to death over what may come of them and their families. Up in the mountains, groups of survivors and escapees settle, watching the sun set from high above, waiting for the world to come crashing down...

Part 2D is necessary. Please note, this thread was meant to be a very long one. I hope its been educational as much as it has been enthralling.

[edit on 13-5-2008 by sweatmonicaIdo]

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