Moscow has elected to cut off all new arms deals with communist China

China Breaks Patent Deals

China is having a bit of trouble with its weapons deals lately. Part of the problem is that China is being accused — with a great deal of evidence — of cheating.

For example, Russia has officially notified Beijing that it is violating an agreement to produce advanced SU-27 Flanker fighter jets. According to Moscow, Chinese J-11 copies of the SU-27 violate several co-production agreements. As a result, Russia has started legal proceedings to protect its intellectual property.

According to an official announcement published in the Nezavisimaya Gazeta, “Chinese pirates have entered a new level of activity.”

***************
Aritcle by Charles R. Smith of NewsMax

mod edit: edited down quote and added external quote tags and linked source.

[edit on 1-5-2008 by UK Wizard]

Damn Right!

Why is the west even dealing with China at all, it's the: biggest polluter ( One new coal power plant built every week ), the worlds largest population, worlds biggest humans rights violator (After the US ), worlds largest army, their communist, AND they kill their female children.

Considering that their armed forces ENTIRELY consists of Soviet surplus, it would be great that russia itself stop providing expertise, no less physical weapons.

[edit on 1-5-2008 by hpsfl]

Well i'd say:
1. the military trade between China and Russia is decreasing from...long ago due to russia's weaponary problem(not means russia weaponary is not good because china pefer to build on its own); China can produce many new weaponary itself to fill the gap it even refused the invitation to R&D the 5th generation airplane from russia(and that's old news already)

2. Chinese armed force is not mainly consists of Soviet surplus at all well i don't wana waste my time to clarify that with you so do some reasearch yourself plz.

3. China and Russia is still corporate on many military projects and still ally

4. I'd love to see West stop dealing with China myself as a Chinese since West play dirty trick and blame China on almost everything China did since CCP established the China(PRC) today nearly 60years till now and i don't see they gona change the trend even if China is so called "democray"
look at those critisim at Russia nowadays after new presidential election.

5. nice to see you keep living in stone age jetxnet.

I have to assume that the Chinese Communist Party owns the US government. The whole enemy thing is a joke. China has a very restrictive import policy with a flat tariff of 30% on all foreign goods. They have no labor laws, no pollution laws and they are permitted to basically manufacture all of our goods. We import their goods with little to no tariffs.

This is a key reason why our economy is going down the crapper and yet no politician ever dare discuss it. Why? I have to assume it's because they are already owned.

reply to post by SevenThunders


that wouldn't make much sense.... the reason there are no tarrifs on Chinese goods because American companies are the ones profiting from products made in china so all the money comes back to America.

Cuba-Communist
China-Communist

The US does not trade with Cuba at all, while China has they say in America's economy?

[edit on 3-5-2008 by hpsfl]

Originally posted by taobo33

2. Chinese armed force is not mainly consists of Soviet surplus at all well i don't wana waste my time to clarify that with you so do some reasearch yourself plz.

Hmm...lets see what fine military equipment China posseses...

Rifles-SKS (Type 56 Carbine), AK-47 (Type 56), QBZ-95 (Hmmm...same internals as the AK series...)

Tanks-T-54 (2/3 the total Chinese armoured force), type 99 (Internally a T-80, externally a Leopard 2)

Fighters-Shenyang J-11 (Su-27 COPY), Chegdu J-10 (Oh look, it's a Mig 1.44!) Chengdu J-7/J-8 (Mig-21 Copy/Derivative), Nanchang Q-5 (MiG-19 with side intakes), Su-30,Su-27 (I guess the Chinese got tired of copying airplanes.

Bombers-Xian H-6 (Tu-16)

Utility/Transport-Il-76, Mil-8,Mil-17, Shaanxi J-8 (An-12), Shijiahuang Y-5 (An-2), Tu-154, Xian Y-7 (An-24)

Perhaps you should do your research?

Originally posted by purplemonkey
reply to post by SevenThunders

 

that wouldn't make much sense.... the reason there are no tarrifs on Chinese goods because American companies are the ones profiting from products made in china so all the money comes back to America.

They are not really "American" companies per se. They are international companies. It makes plenty of sense in the boardroom, where only the bottom line is of concern. However if you have no workers producing products or making money in the US, then the entire basis for the economy collapses.

It's long term thinking vs. short term thinking. Even Henry Ford raised salaries enough so that his workers could afford to buy his vehicles. It was a good advertising strategy and good for the general economy.

Why don't list those not from Russia? or Do more research please.

Then, ask yourself: what does China need and can they get from Russia.

Btw, some of what you said are not true, for example more people believe J-10 prototype was from Israeli IAI Lavi






[edit on 4-5-2008 by bluepanic]

Originally posted by bluepanic

Btw, some of what you said are not true, for example more people believe J-10 prototype was from Israeli IAI Lavi

A copy, regardless. Why can't china develop their own fricken technology?

Originally posted by hpsfl
Hmm...lets see what fine military equipment China posseses..

None of which proves your argument that Chinas armed forces "ENTIRELY consists of Soviet surplus". You have provided a short and inaccurate list of items China has produced HERSELF not of any so called "surplus" equipment.

Like the poster said, you should load your head before you shoot your mouth

AK-47 (Type 56),

Like the M-16 rifles the AK-47 is a design which has been produced by many countries around the world. The Design was from a person not a state although under communist ideology the state possibly owned the design but as of now the Soviet Union does not exist nor is Chinas armed forced armed with the AK-47

QBZ-95 (Hmmm...same internals as the AK series...)

:LOL:

So the QBZ-95 are supposed to have the same internals as a AK?.


Lets spot the differences, shall we?

type 99 (Internally a T-80, externally a Leopard 2)

And that is supposed to prove your point about Soviet surplus how?

The Type-99 is VASTLY different internally and externally from either of the mentioned tanks. The Tank does not share one single component from each of the mentioned tanks, nor are any of the designs internally similar or externally. One could possibly argue about design influences of the wedge shaped add-on amour but the Leopard A6 utilizes composite blocks instead of ERA like the Type-99 which does not even explain the different design and shape of the add-on amour to be considered the same or even similar to the leopard tank

Chegdu J-10 (Oh look, it's a Mig 1.44!)

The J-10 flew before the MiG, its program was ahead of the MiG's anyhow. The Chinese were working on the delta-canard configuration on the J-9 much before MiG even thought about the MFI program. This just shows the lack of knowledge you have on the issue

Doesn't fit

Utility/Transport-Il-76, Mil-8,Mil-17, Shaanxi J-8 (An-12), Shijiahuang Y-5 (An-2), Tu-154, Xian Y-7 (An-24)

Any that links up to your contention how?. Your just pointing to examples of license production and somehow suggesting that China can't design them herselves. Well look at the US armies pride and joy the Abram tank which used a British Cannon and then a German Cannon, does that prove that the Americans can't make a tank gun?. Pulling at straws does not make an argument

Originally posted by jetxnet
China Breaks Patent Deals

In actual fact, no deal has thus far been broken nor have official channels been explored. The agreement signed was for initial Russian kits to be used which would then equate to 70% Chinese indigenous productions which would build the airframes latter to be fitted with Russian avionics and engines. The last J-11A produced was from Chinese made airframe parts owning to the ToT agreement signed for the manufacture of parts. The agreement is actually very ambiguous and neither side has a concrete argument to prove they broke or did not break the agreement. Anyhow, if the J-11B does not get exported then there is a fiar case that it has not violated any agreement.

Sukhoi has not made a official complaint yet and the articles published are much more sensationalized than what it actually is. And if Moscow somehow does "cut" relations off then it is only because the Chinese stopped ordering major systems back in '02


I actually have done a thread arguing the future of Russia's air force industry and it seems like things are coming to fruition.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

well, the topic of discussion is whether Russia actually doing what the OP says they are, not whether there is any moral/ethical base to it.

So is this a serious widespread initiative, or some rumor mill?

It's becoming a serious problem for Russia in having their technology cloned by the Chinese. The US also has this problem with China but would rather look the other way.

At least Russia is filing complaints and now giving serious consideration to cutting off all new deals with China.

In the long run it won't matter, China is graduating more engineers by a huge number every year than Russia and the US combined. Manufacturing has moved to to CHina because it is cheaper and their workers aren't fat lazy dull slobs you get in the US.
The American century is at an end, this is China's century.

BTW. China isn't commnist anymore. Only an idiot who knows nothng about China would say they are. Communism has been replcaed by nationalism.

reply to post by taobo33


That is because they are producing cheap knock offs all Russian equipment.

There is a saying, The US innovates, Japan imitates, the Chinese straight up steal it.

Originally posted by rogue1
In the long run it won't matter, China is graduating more engineers by a huge number every year than Russia and the US combined.

Which has been proven to be bogus figures.

The Chinese central government in Beijing had simply decided that 600,000 is the number of engineers they want China to graduate each year. "The government has told the provinces that they have to graduate more engineers, so the provinces tell the government what they want to hear."

Additionally, many Chinese actually come to work, and study in the US where they enjoy freedoms and high pay for their services. The brain drain still swings heavily in Americas favor.

Manufacturing has moved to to CHina because it is cheaper

Just as it has to India, Pakistan, Eastern Europe, etc. Do you notice a cycle? China, and the above mentioned, are getting "hand me down economics."

Manufacturing is actually the lower end of the economic spectrum in todays world. Many western nations are starting to graduate from manufacturing based economics, and are moving into the information age based economics, where the High Tech industry's trump all (which in these regards, China, as well as India, have alot further to go in order to achieve parity let alone dominance in any area that the US currently holds sway.).
I suggest reading up on "the post manufacturing age"

and their workers aren't fat lazy dull slobs you get in the US.

Yes, and at least those "fat dull lazy slobs" are not working in a deplorable conditions, and at least they are actually being paid for their work, which is more than I can say for China.

The American century is at an end, this is China's century.

Which isn't very well corroborated.

Furthermore, I think India has a much brighter future in contrast to China's. India, unlike China, has a sustainable growth forecast, and is not totally reliant on the US and EU economy's.

BTW. China isn't commnist anymore. Only an idiot who knows nothng about China would say they are. Communism has been replcaed by nationalism.

Only an idiot who knows no better would fall for that false presumption.

[edit on 11-5-2008 by West Coast]

[edit on 11-5-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by West Coast

Originally posted by rogue1
In the long run it won't matter, China is graduating more engineers by a huge number every year than Russia and the US combined.

Which has been proven to be bogus figures.

The article still states that China is graduating 200 000 more than the US a year. So yes it is true.
[quote[
Additionally, many Chinese actually come to work, and study in the US where they enjoy freedoms and high pay for their services. The brain drain still swings heavily in Americas favor.

Increasingly they are returning to the mother country to make their fortune there and help China. American patriotism is to the almighty dollar, CHinese patriotism is to their country and people.

Manufacturing has moved to to CHina because it is cheaper

Just as it has to India, Pakistan, Eastern Europe, etc. Do you notice a cycle? China, and the above mentioned, are getting "hand me down economics."

Manufacturing is actually the lower end of the economic spectrum in todays world. Many western nations are starting to graduate from manufacturing based economics, and are moving into the information age based economics, where the High Tech industry's trump all (which in these regards, China, as well as India, have alot further to go in order to achieve parity let alone dominance in any area that the US currently holds sway.).

Ah I see, so that's why the US owes China $1.2 trillion and growing. The US is no longer the center of the world, far from it.

Yes, and at least those "fat dull lazy slobs" are not working in a deplorable conditions, and at least they are actually being paid for their work, which is more than I can say for China.

Spoken like a true ignorant. I have lived and worked in one of these factories and seen dozens more. I know it is hard for you to understand what the world is really like considering the drivel the pass off here as news.

Which isn't very well corroborated.

Furthermore, I think India has a much brighter future in contrast to China's. India, unlike China, has a sustainable growth forecast, and is not totally reliant on the US and EU economy's.

Oh right. I have also been to India, they have massve problems to overcome, not least their language and caste bariers.
As China's economy grows, they will be looking to have future gorwth driven internally rather than relying on exports.

Only an idiot who knows no better would fall for that false presumption.

LOL, only idiot here is yourself. You obviously have no idea about what China is all about. BTW I suggest you understand the definaition of what communism is as well. Stop watching your cable news, it's obviosuly rotted your brain.
Quite farnkly, you aren't even qualified to comment on China, you've obviously never been there, let alone worked there.

Originally posted by rogue1
The article still states that China is graduating 200 000 more than the US a year. So yes it is true.

I'm not sure we read the same article?

In fact, about half of what China calls "engineers" would be called "technicians" at best in the United States, with the equivalent of a vocational certificate or an associate degree. In addition, the McKinsey study of nine occupations, including engineering, concluded that "fewer than 10 percent of Chinese job candidates, on average, would be suitable for work in a multinational company in the nine occupations we studied."

Only a small fraction of those Asian grads are qualified to work at MNC's. Plus, engineering is not the only thing that matters. America leads in management, marketing, and sales, something the Chinese are light years behind in, when compared.

Increasingly they are returning to the mother country to make their fortune there and help China. American patriotism is to the almighty dollar, CHinese patriotism is to their country and people.

If one wants to be successful, and adequately paid for what they are capable of doing, and who will have much more freedom with what they can do with their work (a major problem that the US has only solved), they will come to the US.

Lets face it, Europeans, along with Indians (even mainlander Chinese), are not flocking to start a career in China, as well as never consider coming to China as their first choice. Insinuating that China, is not nearly as lucrative as the United States in those same regards. They will not have the same intellectual and psychological cross-pollination which often results in great economic benefits.

Ah I see, so that's why the US owes China $1.2 trillion and growing.

China actually owns very little U.S. debt as a percentage of the GDP. China only owns less than 6% of all of the U.S.'s outstanding debt.

Here is a small graph indicating just who owns US debt. As you can see, Japan is Americas largest foreign debtor, not China.


Additionally, China only buys U.S. debt to devalue its currency so it can create an artificial trade deficit with the US etc. I've said it and I will continue to say it, China buying up American debt is in Chinas best interest if China values strong economic growth.

Many U.S. investors would like to see China start to sell off the U.S. debt because in the long term it will decrease the trade deficit, improve the stock market, boost home prices, increase consumer spending, increase job growth, etc. etc. etc. But that wouldn't be in Chinas interest.

The US is no longer the center of the world, far from it.

You are right, I never claimed it was, however, it is the breadbasket of the world in terms of economics. The US still holds about the same share of the worlds GDP as it did 20 years ago, so this disproves your point.

Spoken like a true ignorant. I have lived and worked in one of these factories and seen dozens more. I know it is hard for you to understand what the world is really like considering the drivel the pass off here as news.

Google Video Link

tee hee....

[Edit:] I just realized your location says you are in China, you may not be able to see the above Google video entitled "Santa's Workshop" due to your governments actions in censoring the internet.

Oh right. I have also been to India, they have massve problems to overcome, not least their language and caste bariers.
As China's economy grows, they will be looking to have future gorwth driven internally rather than relying on exports.

India has far greater sustainable growth in direct contrast to Chinas. Furthermore, India is a democracy which embraces full market capitalism.

LOL, only idiot here is yourself. You obviously have no idea about what China is all about. BTW I suggest you understand the definaition of what communism is as well. Stop watching your cable news, it's obviosuly rotted your brain.
Quite farnkly, you aren't even qualified to comment on China, you've obviously never been there, let alone worked there.

My god, you are even more brainwashed into Maoist propaganda than even the Chinese are.

China is not a democracy, Chinas poor human rights record are the source. Additionally, it does not embrace free market capitalism in the same regards as a democracy. The chinese government censors the internet, religion etc, China is more like a dictatorship. Tibet anyone? tiananmen square? Just a few examples to go off from.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by West Coast]

[edit on 12-5-2008 by West Coast]

Originally posted by chinawhite

QBZ-95 (Hmmm...same internals as the AK series...)

:LOL:

So the QBZ-95 are supposed to have the same internals as a AK?.


Lets spot the differences, shall we?

Uh, all your pictures show is that they have different external housings. You can't see at all if they have the same action or not. From what I've read, the QBZ-95 does not use the AK's action, but is instead gas short-stroke. The QBZ-95 is being phased out for the newer QBZ-03 though, which is based on the AK.

Only one piece in each of those pictures matters, and you can't see it well enough to tell if they're not the same. They certainly look similar except for the piston design, which is consistent with what I've heard. Gas rotating bolt is far from unique to the Kalashnikov though.