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Killing Americans Is Iran's Policy

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posted on May, 2 2008 @ 12:29 AM
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I read an article today, well, yesterday, that the Iraq government was sending an envoy to Iran to show them the proof that Iran is indeed supplying the insurgents in Iraq with training and weapons. I guess this is the sooner that some people wanted. I suppose this would be the better course of action for a fledgling democracy to pursue, instead of the U.S. showing it to the world. Let the Iranians and Iraqis try to sort it out first.




posted on May, 2 2008 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by jasonhb
Yes, please introduce "you're reality" into my world. Break it out...pleeze!


It's reality as it seems to be irrespective of however i might have wanted it.


Just to understand your mindset. Please tell me what this means that you wrote:


Why can't we just deal with some facts instead of what my mindset might or might not be?


Huh?

My guess is that you dont support democracy.


I do support democracy and that is why the democracy destroying US foreign policy is such a problem for me.


The majority of palestinians do want peace.


They want FREEDOM from Israeli oppression and since they have not achieved it some have decided that it can't be done trough peaceful measures alone.


It's irans proxies hamas who stall the process, launch rockets into israel and then cry war crimes when they retaliate.


Hamas is not a proxy of Iran , at least no more than it is of Saudi Arabia and Egypt ( which both receives vast amounts of us US money) and it's largely a outgrowth of the desperation of Palestinians, who like the ANC and hundreds of other liberation movements , who have discovered that negotiating with heavily armed fascists types gets you absolutely nowhere.


And if you think Iran is democratic I guess it is.


Well it's clearly not democratic but why does it need to be when Saudi Arabia and so many other US 'allied' countries aren't?


Just like he first Ford cars that were sold. "You can have any color you want as long as it's black". America has long been a defender of peace.


The US leadership have since it's independence from Britain looked for ways to expand it's empire ( it after all took over a large tract of North America and started a a war with Mexico and Spain for land and colonies) and since that very rarely involves doing what the locals of any given area likes 'peace' is not something US foreign policy have brought to all but a few former princes, industrial tycoons and other capitalist types. America does not export peace and if it were i doubt so much of it's foreign exports would have been weapons related.


What has S. Africa done for the world?


Nothing i can think of besides trying to play the hegemon of Southern Africa by employing foreign aid ( from the US and Europe) to prevent Southern Africa from falling into the hands of it's original inhabitants.


Isn't that where you are from? Break out your books, im curious what other cowardly liberal nonsence you are going to put forward.


So now I'm a 'liberal' and 'coward' for pointing out what is abundantly obvious the a vast majority of the worlds population who have for long been suffering US imperial aggression? I'm sorry South-Africa did not set an example , and in fact emulated US institutionalized racism and capitalism, but that's hardly the fault of the white minority who were actually outnumbered 'ten to one' ( as American citizens like to think of themselves) and desperately looking for any country that would give them the resources it would require to oppress so many of their countrymen for so very long.

Stellar

For spelling

[edit on 2-5-2008 by StellarX]



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 11:18 AM
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I hope Americans are smart enough to see through the propaganda and not fall into thinking just what they want you to. Obviously this is to get a rise out of people and rally support for invading Iran...



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 11:30 PM
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reply to post by TimeTracker
 


i certainly hope you don't live in the US and talk that way, because if so then you are encouraging our brothers sisters and neighbors to die and promoting it, government aside our families are over there. IF you do happen to be a good old US citizen then someone soon will find out how you feel and soon you will be getting fitted for dentures.



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 11:35 PM
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Originally posted by VIKINGANT

Originally posted by Stumpy1
some things are not easy to prove


As I pointed out earlier....

Military commanders in Baghdad are expected to roll out evidence of that support soon


And my point now as it was then. Why SOON? Why not make the claim when the evidence is available?


well it could be kind of like playing poker.....do you show your hand before the last card is dealt even if you don't need one? or do you throw down your hand before the final bet? No.....you bluff if you have nothing and then fold....or you pretend to bluff(knowing you will win) and show your cards later when the time is right and all the chips are in the pot.
Our government may be a lot of things, but they are not stupid in war...and anyone who thinks differently needs to get their heads checked.



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 11:48 PM
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reply to post by anti us gov
 


Hasn't killing americans in general been Iran's goal for over a year now?

cernigsnewshog.blogspot.com...
www.npr.org...
www.militaryphotos.net...
www.prisonplanet.com...
thegroundtruth.blogspot.com...

-ChriS

[edit on 2-5-2008 by BlasteR]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 01:04 AM
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Originally posted by Stumpy1
reply to post by TimeTracker
 


i certainly hope you don't live in the US and talk that way, because if so then you are encouraging our brothers sisters and neighbors to die and promoting it, government aside our families are over there. IF you do happen to be a good old US citizen then someone soon will find out how you feel and soon you will be getting fitted for dentures.


Yeah, i'm a US citizen.
Also served my time in the forces.
And what i'm saying is i'm smart enough to know when you invade a country
and the surrounding countries are hostile then this is going to happen.
As far as encouraging anything you must be too dense to understand my meaning.
If our chiefs of staff did not think this was going to happen from the get go.
Then our forces have a REAL problem.
I ain't encouraging anyone to get killed.
The dumb aholes that are running the show are!
Dentures?
PM me i'll give you my address and you can try to fit me for a pair bub.


[edit on 3-5-2008 by TimeTracker]

[edit on 3-5-2008 by TimeTracker]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 11:08 AM
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Originally posted by StellarX

Originally posted by jasonhb
If I were you I would study all wars the US has been in and why. Your blanket statements dont add up to anything my friend.


So how many books have you read dealing with the US national security states interventions in foreign countries? Just say when you want to start comparing notes so i can start opening my files and introducing some reality into your world.


Iran is the leading state supporter of islamic terrorism.


As compared to Saudi-Arabia, Pakistan, the USA ( a good few of those Cubans living in Florida) and a few others Iran has very little to do with international terrorism.


I believe once they are dealt with (and seria) through a thorough air campaign Iraq will have a chance at governing themselves with the moderate democratically elected government.


Since the vast majority of Iraqi's are Shia and 90% of Iranians are Shia if Iraq is allowed to self govern a formal alliance will result in short order. Fact is the US can not allow Iraqi's to democratically elect anyone of importance as that will run counter to their aim of fracturing ME unity.


Israel will will be able to live free and the a new moderate palestinian state can be born. I think the time is now or never.


Israeli's will never be able to live freely while they allow their government to enslave their fellow countrymen because they happen to have arrived their sooner. The time is no more now than ever than it was five decades ago and frankly nothing will be resolved while the US still has some strategic clout. When Israel is finally forced to fend for itself peace will follow in relative short order but until such a day they will have resourced and weapons enough to suppress Palestinians and ward of anyone who might wish to aid them.

Stellar
Yo Steelar I'm in a debate with a guy right now about that, too and I could use all that info you got can you U2U me with it



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 03:22 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
I'm sorry, but did you actually think this through before posting it? Did you realize that fascism and communism are at completely opposite ends of the spectrum?


What's the economic differences between fascism and communist for the average person on the street?


Apparently you did not. You're so befuddled and desperate for something to raise fear in people around you that you just grabbed the two biggest political threat buzzwords and threw them together in a pairing that could never co-exist or occur in a manner where one leads to the other.


I can see why you don't want to scare people any more than they already are but i don't see why informing people as to the true state of affairs should be considered to be 'raising fears'.

Allow me to correct your post...

Yes, me too.




Now, for everyone clammoring for evidence... you ever actually turn on the news? Read a paper or actual NEWS website (no, blogs and op-ed pieces don't count)? Maybe flip over to NPR on your radio once in awhile?


As if that's going to help much.



If you have, then maybe you've heard of a dude named the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. The United States and the Ayatollah Assaholla go back a long ways, he was, in fact Ayatollah Khomeini's puppet president during the hostage crisis.


When you start making sense i will address this part.



The two of them have always had two mantras: "Death to America, the great white Satan!" and "Death to Israel!" Enter Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, the angry little man. He's yet another of the "Death to America! Boo-hiss! Boo-hiss!" jagoffs in that lovely little country.


So why do you think they have a problem with the US government as embodied by US foreign policy? You don't think the support of the Saudi, Iraqi and or Egyptian tyrants goes a long way towards that? What is to be made of unilateral support of the various terrorist Israeli governments? They are very clearly more concerned with the destruction of those who make US and Israeli foreign policy or one could presume they would long ago have started staging suicide bombings in Washington and New york. To suggest that any larger number of these people actually hate those Americans who stay in American and don't actively engage in terrorizing the world is just projecting your own hatred of those your government terrorizes onto it's victims.


We're not dealing with the Iron Sheik here, guys. This isn't an example of a group of foreigners play acting like a bunch of heels and bad mouthing "Real American" Hulk Hogan before quietly going out with him and throwing back a few beers after the show. These guys actually want us dead.


So why are they not killing you? Why do you have to go and invade their countries before they start trying to kill Americans? What sort of stupidly ineffective hatred is that any ways?


It isn't because we're fascists, communists, puritans, hiding the secrets of what really happened at Roswell, or wearing unmatching socks, either. They want us dead because for 1500 years it is what the radical shia Muslim world has done...


It's not because you are any of these things but because of the actions the US national security state has involved itself in for more than a century. Even OBL makes it clear when he declares his targets which normally involves US government employees and or functionaries; obviously there will be 'collatarol damage' but i suppose they care about as much about that as the US army cares about bombing wedding parties by 'accident'.


that being wage war against anyone who isn't also under the same set of laws and religious-political structure of beliefs.


And that makes ME tyrants any different from those elsewhere?


If Iran was such a peacefull nation, then why is it that every other word out of their leaders' mouths directly calls for the death of large groups of people?


The US national security state and their Israeli governmental allies hardly represents a 'large group of people' and as far as those public pronouncements go it seems to me they would rather just see those people out of power than having to risk getting into a fight with such proficient enemies.


You really don't see that outside of communist and muslim nations anymore.


So you were not watching the news the last time US officials and media commentators said that they were going 'to take out' their enemies? It's strange how only the 'good guys' are allowed to say such genocidal things about other nations.


Bush has called for anhilation of terrorists and terror supporting nations, but you gotta have some seriously thick skulls to even attempt to compare calling for the destruction of Al Qaida with calling for the genocide of the Jew.


Annihilation of terror supporting nations? Does the US public support their governments terrorism any more strongly than other nations do so for their officials? Where did you get this idea that Iranians, Saudis, Israeli's or others support what their governments do and if so why do you think these things are normally kept secret? Why were Americans so against joining the war against Germany in 1914 and again against Nazi Germany in 1941? Because they love freedom so much that they would do nothing to fight for it or because they hate war and would rather not fight for anyone but themselves as humans tend to do? The citizens of American no more support terrorism than anyone else and they love freedom no more than anyone else.


So if our government says Iran is aiding the insurgents in Iraq, I really have only one reaction: "Duh, anyone with half a brain already figured that out a couple years ago when the reports of large numbers of insurgents being Iranian nationals using Iranian arms surfaced.


So where is the evidence of that? Why did the US army say that they could not find much support for such a conclusion not a year ago? Who am i supposed to believe if the US army who actually knows weapons tells me that much? large number of Iranian citizens? Where are you getting this nonsense from?


Please, Uncle Sam, tell me something I didn't already know..." The only real question at this point is whether we take a pre-emptive strike or allow the middle eastern culture of death and glorification of pure unadulterated evil to take the first shot, probably at Israel, and then retalliate.


The only real question should instead be if you plan on getting a proper education any day soon. How did you manage to become quite this badly informed?


Of course I get the impression that some among you would probably expect us to break out olive branches and peace offerings even if a shahab was sticking out of the chest of Lady Liberty.


Maybe your government could try that just once to see if works? Don't you reckon that's why it's never tried? Because it's certain to work givne the fact that no one third world nation wishes to fight such a large and relatively effective armed force? How have you managed to reach the conclusion that there is a culture of 'death' in the ME? If you must believe that have you ever considered that it might be the result of all the death and destruction various empires have visited on that part of the world over the last few centuries?

Stellar



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 04:19 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
I see we've never heard of the Creek massacre, have we?


And that's a significant event considering what were done to them before it happened?


I defy you to take any society in the world and tell me they don't have major wars in their history.


They do and that's not the point. The point is that few in modern times have been so aggressive in meddling in the affairs of others.


We don't commit war crimes, we solve war crimes.


Name a instance.


You want to find war crimes, fine, look at the crime the UN commited by allowing Saddam Hussein to repeatedly break sanction after sanction and play games with the inspectors after he was miraculously and inexplicably saved from America's noose after his initial intrasurgence into a neighboring sovern nation (Kuwait).


The UN mandate allowed the US to reign in their ally SH after they managed to lengthen his leash just long enough to allow him to foolish invade Kuwait in the believe that he could get away with and would have covert US backing. The UN did manage to disarm Iraq ( that's what their arms inspectors have been saying all along) and it took the direct action of US officials to end the weapon inspections which were so effectively controlling the Iraqi strategic capabilities. Israel have broken ten times more UN mandates than Iraq ever did and Israel have not been under the same stress in decades.


Are Americans arrogant? You're damn right we're arrogant, but we deserve to be arrogant.


About what?


We've covered the UN's butt for years. We've prevented India and Pakistan from wiping each other off the map.


The US has done nothing but undermine the authority of the UN by staging coups and illegal actions whenever they see benefit by it. India and Pakistan should and will reach a settlement in their own way and it's no business of the rest of the world to dictate to them. When other stop arming them they might become less well equipped to actually fight aggressive wars.


[ We kept Russia from sodomizing the entirety of Europe.


The creation and buildup of the Warsaw pact was a direct response to NATO and it's stated goals so i would hardly say that Europe were 'saved' by presence of the US which never did enough to actually save Europe from a Soviet onslaught. All the creation of NATO did was make it widely known that the US would meddle where it didn't help it's citizens. If Europe directed the same volume of it's resources and attention to preparing itself for a potential future war with the Soviet Union it could have defended itself without the commitment of US troops on the continent. The joke is on the average US citizen which today has to do without free health care, a living minimum wage and various other benefits Europeans derived from diverting funds from military expenditure towards what their people actually wanted. As it stood the USN were not strong enough to keep the Atlantic open, did not have enough troops to save the Europeans, and lacked the strategic nuclear arsenal and civil defense to fight a strategic war with the Soviet Union. Funny how the US intervention in European affairs turned EVERYONE into losers instead of the security that could otherwise have been arranged.


We drove Germany back into submission and turned Japan from a warmongering island of agression to a modernized nation of peace.


Germany were driven into submission by the SU and Japan stood undefeated up until the point the SU started to destroy their massive army in China. Sure the US were quite instrumental in ending the world war so soon but there was no reason that it required the commitment of actual US troops. The SU and the British commonwealth had the capability to defeat both Germany and Japan if the US could keep the Atlantic open and provide those nations with sufficient war materials. The US government sent their sons to die pointlessly so as to best gain control of the resources of foreign nations after the war.


We blow our noses on the idea we should feel any guilt over the world's inferiority complex and wipe our mouths off on the sleeve of international whining.


What inferiority complex? Do you think it's arrogance that drives the US citizens to keep asking their representatives for more social security, health care, higher wages and a less interventionist foreign policy? Why don't you spend some time considering what the vast majority of Americans want instead of repeating what their national government would like them to ?


We tried working peacefully with the world and where did it get us?


When did your government try to peacefully interact with the world?


A huge smoldering crater in the center of downtown Manhattan and a hole in the side of a US Navy vessel, that's where.


What were the navy vessal doing in a foreign port? Why don't people blow up British and Dutch, German, French naval vessels when they dock in foreign ports? What about a wild guess sir? As far for 9-11 any government with thousands of fighter aircraft which can't even keep it's own skies clear of hijacked planes is probably not very interested in protecting it's own citizens and certainly should not be trusted with the lives of foreigners unless their terrorist hijackers and or foreign fundamentalist tyrants, who kills their own people if some profit is to be made, in which they might in fact get away with almost anything.


So forgive me if claims of arrogant Americans fall on my deaf ears... actually, don't forgive me, we've done nothing wrong.


And this is the exact attitude which allows the US government to get way with mass murder and worse.

Stellar



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:09 AM
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Originally posted by deltaboy
The NVA has tried and failed to conquer South Vietnam many times.


South Vietnam did not legally exist so there could not really be North Vietnamese army or a South Vietnam to invade ; there were Vietnamese who cooperated to bring about the end of the foreign occupation of the Southern half of their country...


They used the VC as a fighting force to sabotage and inflict casualties until they can get the American forces to pull out.


'VC" is what the occupiers called those Vietnamese who did not wish to cooperate with the occupation forces so it's hardly someone or something easily defined. The vast majority of the casualties were inflicted on those Vietnamese who cooperated with the American backed regime and joined the armed forces. The US withdrew when it realised that they would have to do more and more of the fighting and dying as the 'army' they created were not very enthusiastic about it.


Which by the way they finally succeeded in taking over after American forces pulled out. They call it the American War because they had other wars fought in Vietnam.


First they had to defeat a armed force numbering of a few hundred thousand which effectively resisted around major centers and inflicted serious casualties. You presume that because the US withdrew the South were always going to fall but that is not the case as was shown in other countries where the US did not have to get militarily involved to keep their puppet rulers in place.


Remember that its parallel to North Korea invading South Korean in the name of fighting imperialism as they said. North Vietnam wanted South Vietnam united under communist rule.


The then South Korean ruler had very little if any public backing and since he realised that things were only getting worse for him he very probably ordered the large scale cross border attack that kicked off the North Korean invasion of the South. In essence he knew that his power rested on continuing US armed support he was accordingly willing to sacrifice Koreans by the hundreds of thousands by starting a war he knew the US would get involved in for fear of having their puppet disposed and the country united under the popular leader of the North.


Let me ask you this....who took over Saigon and name it Ho Chi Minh? The VC? Doubt it.


Not sure what your point is but as i said before the distinction between the VC and NVA is a political one only.


Originally posted by deltaboy
The Vietnamese struggled for many years. But it depends on what kind of rule in Vietnam.
Similar to North Korea and South Korea. Even the South Korean govt. was unpopular.


It was VERY unpopular and while South Vietnamese could relatively easily respect Diem's solid resistance credentials there was nothing to say for US choice of sponsoring into power in South Korea a Japanese collaborator who had only the support he could physically buy.


But we succeeded in preventing a takeover and South Korea is one of the wealthiest countries in Asia.


At the time South Korea was dirt poor ( Japanese occupation... ) and the Northern part were in fact the industrialized area of that country. The South only surpassed the North in terms of industrial potential, GDP and average income in the mid or late 70's. There are sources that indicates that it only happened in the mid 80's but there is suppose the earlier number drives the point home quite well.


The Korean peninsula has been under foreign control before until it was divided between the communist Soviet Union and the democratic United States. The Koreans wanted a unification but have disagreement as to how that can work. Remember the Sunshine policy? This is no different.


But since the US got there first and could have easily taken the country before any US forces arrived why did they bother to respect the artificial line Dean Rusk + friend drew on a map? The Koreans wanted unification and that's why the Russian could withdraw from the North four years before the Americans which were busily aiding their unelected ( South Koreans boycotted the election) puppet to suppress the uprisings that were happening in the South. If there were to be a national election Kim Il-sung would probably have won despite the North only having a third of the population.

As for South Vietnam the same general thing happened when the US backed a relatively unpopular leader over a man ALL of Vietnam would have gladly elected president for his decades of struggle against imperialist occupations.

Stellar



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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This thread is packed with pure lunacy and blind patriotism.

You guys are missing the major point of why the US so badly wants to initiate ground action in Iran and it's the same reason why they initiated a war with Iraq.

AMERICAN ENERGY INTERESTS.

All this state-sponsored terrorism, possible WMD's crap is a farce. Have we learned nothing from going into Iraq? Remember Bush's justification?

1. WMD's
2. Links with Al-Qaeda
3. Democracy is the right form of government

How many of these justifications have been proved right in hindsight?
ZERO....

We found nothing, Saddam didn't even know Al-Qaeda existed and why are we spreading a government for the people by force onto the people? That defeats the whole purpose of an organic democracy...

No, the real reason we got into Iraq is to secure our energy future for the time being. Oil is peaking. Republicans know this, they are making record profits from oil, and the energy business is the largest privatized economy in the world.

Think of how much money and people are involved in Oil production and distribution? You can't begin to fathom. These people are connected and spread all over the world, and all want one thing in common, the domination of the lifeblood of our insane, little planet.

The simple truth of the matter is, Iranian politics are threatening US Oil & Energy interests in the region, and the Republicans cannot stand for that because they are profiting like never before from record oil prices.
The US is worried Iran might try to privatize it's Oil Industry like they tried in 1953 with Mossadegh. And guess what happened to him?
He and his democratically elected gov. got overthrown and replaced with a sock puppet.

Ahmadinejad's attitude is what's pissing the US off the most, irregardless of the fact whether he's enriching uranium or supply the Insurgency.
The Chickenhawk's have done this throughout American history.

Look at how they intervened in Chile, Panama, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Iran, the Suez Crisis; each incident is fundamentally the same, whenever a government is elected that threatens to challenge American Energy/Oil/Business interests in the region, they are overthrown and replaced with a staunchly pro-Western successor.

Wake up and smell what your government is shoveling Americans, regime change...



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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Iran's Policy?!

Do these monkeys in the White House even remember what a policy is?

When a government forms a policy... it gets written!

So... go ahead, find one document in the Iranian government that declares "Killing Americans" as a policy of the nation.
I dare ya...

You won't find it... wanna know why? Cause there isn't one!


These liars in the White House aren't even bothering to say "I think" or "We feel" anymore... they're just coming out and spewing some of the most far fetched BS as if it were fact.


Record this latest statement from them, add it to the long list of deceptions.
Eventually, we will have our trial... we need to make sure every one of their deceptions and attempts at genocide are clearly recorded and dated.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 12:13 PM
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reply to post by jasonhb
 


Right. Of course. If the US is so interested in helping democracy and fighting evil, why has it toppled peaceful democratically-elected leaders and installed vicious dictators? Iran was helped to the CIA/MI6 "freedom" you're talking about, and wound up with their current government.

Also, why did the US take so long entering WWII if it hated fascism so much? Why hasn't the US gone into North Korea? Why isn't the US in Darfur? Your logic falls apart at the slightest hint of analysis, revealing it to be the nationalistic rant of so many right-wing political pundits over the entire course of your nations history. Just because you hear it doesn't mean it's right.

Let's play a game. Imagine if, say, Russia invaded Canada, because of claims that some Canadian groups attacked Russian interests in Russia. Then, a couple of years later, Russia invades Mexico, over a bunch of reasons, including claims of being tied in with the aforementioned Candian groups, or Mexico not being Communist. Now, imagine that the US government was toppled in 1953 and replaced with a Russian puppet dictator, who was only ousted in 1979. You'd expect, no, INSIST, that the US paid close attention to the Russian activities in its neighbouring countries, including attacking them if need be to protect the US.

That's exactly what's happening in Iraq and Afghanistan now - Iran is worried that a superpower that has in the past toppled its government is sitting in two of its neighbours, pointing a gun at it. Of COURSE Iran is going to be up to its neck in Iraq and Afghanistan. You'd have to be so naive to not understand why.

But I guess it's easier to just shout "Iran BAD! USA GOOD!" and let it be. Heaven forfend we actually admit any flaws our countries have!



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 02:09 PM
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Originally posted by StellarX





What's the economic differences between fascism and communist for the average person on the street?

The middle class survives intact in a fascist regime, provided they follow the rules. The average German did quite well in Nazi Germany until the war started hitting German soil. The same cannot be said for the average Russian who spent their time standing in bread lines waiting for their government provisions. I'm in no way defending fascism, but as long as you're not standing on the wrong side versus where the governing body is standing, you can be quite prosperous under that system.




I can see why you don't want to scare people any more than they already are but i don't see why informing people as to the true state of affairs should be considered to be 'raising fears'.

Had you posted the "true state" of affairs, I wouldn't have taken issue. Instead you posted an opinion filled with emotion grabbing concepts in an effort to raise fears. BIG difference there.





As if that's going to help much.

and


So why do you think they have a problem with the US government as embodied by US foreign policy? You don't think the support of the Saudi, Iraqi and or Egyptian tyrants goes a long way towards that? What is to be made of unilateral support of the various terrorist Israeli governments? They are very clearly more concerned with the destruction of those who make US and Israeli foreign policy or one could presume they would long ago have started staging suicide bombings in Washington and New york. To suggest that any larger number of these people actually hate those Americans who stay in American and don't actively engage in terrorizing the world is just projecting your own hatred of those your government terrorizes onto it's victims.

... throw in a bunch of your other quotes as well because I'm going to address them together.
First of all, I am not a man who allows himself to lapse into these fantastical "it's all a big conspiracy!" mass paranoia mindsets. I say that to say this, there is no wide sweeping media plot to make the Muslim world appear to hate Americans. There is, however, a wide sweeping coverage of said muslim world actively hating America and Americans. Also I am beginning to see a death knell to this debate between us because you're coming at it from an angle which I cannot and will not attempt to understand, that being the angle that the United States government is akin to a terrorist organization. I honestly have nothing to draw upon to debate that point with you one way or another because when I hear that allegation I get extremely pissed off and the word "imbecile" flashes on and off inside my head. We are not terrorists and, honestly, anyone who believes we are is an imbecile not worth debating over. You opinion is rendered utterly meaningless on any topic if you feel that way.

The reason terror attacks are more prevalent in nations overseas from America is entirely due to proximity and convenience. The Middle East, obviously, is filled with central bases of operations from which they can send out their localized attacks. Europe too, as the number of mosques have increased so have the number of smaller scale attacks. In some ways, America's inherent distrust of foreign and different cultures has shielded us from these attacks. I do believe wholeheartedly that there have been suicide bombing plots inside this country. I also believe that in order to carry them out the would be terrorist had to assimiliate to America and American culture. That assimilation in itself has prevented the attacks. Let's be honest, America has a whole lot going for it as far as entertainment and beauty when compared with the barren wastelands of the middle eastern desert and sports like playing keep away with a dead goat on horseback. Would be attacker comes to this country with "Death to the great white satan!" on his mind, spends a little time and money on our mindless entertainments, maybe hooks up with a cocktail waitress for a fun night, and then figures "Eh, screw it." and decides to just stay here and enjoy life outside of a war zone. I could be wrong, but I may not be that far off.




So you were not watching the news the last time US officials and media commentators said that they were going 'to take out' their enemies? It's strange how only the 'good guys' are allowed to say such genocidal things about other nations.


Yes, George W. Bush has gone on the news so many times talking about how he wanted to wipe Iraq off the map. In fact, he wants to do it so badly he decided to rebuild their country just so he can do it all over again. I've heard Khameni and Alamindijad (sp) say they wanted every Israellite dead.




The only real question should instead be if you plan on getting a proper education any day soon. How did you manage to become quite this badly informed?

Heh, I was wondering the same thing about you, actually. I already have my proper education, thank you. Worked very hard for my bachelor's degree and my minor certifications. As for how I became this badly informed, a ridiculous amount of time spent reading books on foreign policy, newspaper archives, following the news, and a helping of common sense deserves all the credit for that.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 02:42 PM
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reply to post by ppskylight
 


What a load of RUBBISH American people do not believe everything you are told total PROPAGANDA to stir you all up big time,



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by burdman30ott6
The middle class survives intact in a fascist regime, provided they follow the rules. The average German did quite well in Nazi Germany until the war started hitting German soil.


Actually the average German's income were about 20-30% less during the 30's mid and late thirties as compared to the late 20's and early 30's. Economically Germans were certainly worse off under Hitler and since the Wiemar republic didn't start any wars 5 million Germans didn't have to die.


The same cannot be said for the average Russian who spent their time standing in bread lines waiting for their government provisions.


As compared to the pre revolution era the vast majority of Russian peasants were not much off ( unless you were killed ) and they were most certainly better off in 1938 than they were in 1928; something which can't be said for Germans. We are obviously talking averages as plenty of Russians died which i suppose goes a damn long way towards negating the benefits others gained.


I'm in no way defending fascism, but as long as you're not standing on the wrong side versus where the governing body is standing, you can be quite prosperous under that system.


Plenty of people prospered under both systems the difference mainly being that in the new SU it was a different group of people than it used to be while in Germany absolutely nothing changed as the rich got far richer and average Germans experienced a decline in purchasing power. As to my choice of country i would far rather have lived in Germany at the time but it's hard to compare to the raising of standards in the SU given the relatively advanced social structure that the Nazi's had to dismantle in Germany.



Had you posted the "true state" of affairs, I wouldn't have taken issue. Instead you posted an opinion filled with emotion grabbing concepts in an effort to raise fears. BIG difference there.


Plenty of opinions in my post but i know i can defend them far better than you will be able to do for yours.





.. throw in a bunch of your other quotes as well because I'm going to address them together.
First of all, I am not a man who allows himself to lapse into these fantastical "it's all a big conspiracy!" mass paranoia mindsets.


Because your far too arrogant to admit that something so wildly beyond your control can exist in a world you believe you can 'change' at will.


I say that to say this, there is no wide sweeping media plot to make the Muslim world appear to hate Americans. There is, however, a wide sweeping coverage of said muslim world actively hating America and Americans.


So why don't i see murders and sucide bombings in times square? You do realise American port, border and airport security is still entirely useless and that anyone who had a modicum of intelligence could kill large numbers of Americans and probably get away with it? ( And no, i don't support that, wish to be involved in such nor i am attempting to encourage others to do so) If Muslims REALLY hated Americans you would quickly find yourself experiencing the Israeli point of view. There is little means of defense against those who really wish to kill you and if their not killing that probably means they don't really hate you.


Also I am beginning to see a death knell to this debate between us because you're coming at it from an angle which I cannot and will not attempt to understand, that being the angle that the United States government is akin to a terrorist organization.


It's the most dangerous one in the world with a bodycount that is positively horrendous.


I honestly have nothing to draw upon to debate that point with you one way or another because when I hear that allegation I get extremely pissed off and the word "imbecile" flashes on and off inside my head.


And that's why your in so much danger. You just can't imagine that the millions who die in US internventions are actually dying by design however logical that might seem to be if one could remove yourself from being a citizen of the terrorist state.


We are not terrorists and, honestly, anyone who believes we are is an imbecile not worth debating over. You opinion is rendered utterly meaningless on any topic if you feel that way.


You may not be a terrorist but you certainly think like a fundamentalist and unless you continue along this line in other thread i wont have anything to say to you either.


The reason terror attacks are more prevalent in nations overseas from America is entirely due to proximity and convenience.


Because we all know Muslims are idiots who don't understand air travel, how to cross oceans or to generally attack the enemy where they are weakest? Right. Somehow in that mind of you you must realise that they can't hate you very much if their failing so miserably to counterattack where it hurts most. Clearly they are fighting back in a reasonable way so as to avoid looking like fundamentalist murderers who kill innocent people for pleasure. Unlike the US national security state they don't bomb wedding parties and their actions have not resulted in the deaths of a million or more Iraqi civilians.


The Middle East, obviously, is filled with central bases of operations from which they can send out their localized attacks. Europe too, as the number of mosques have increased so have the number of smaller scale attacks.


So where have they 'attacked' in Europe? Do you honestly believe that those bombings were done by Muslims? I suppose you would have to believe that to fuel your hatred for 'those people' but why not take out some time to look at alternative explanations and investigate those who stand most to gain by staging apparently counterproductive attacks in Europe?


In some ways, America's inherent distrust of foreign and different cultures has shielded us from these attacks.


Racial profiling as virtue? Is that why American suburbs are either white or black? Yeah.....


I do believe wholeheartedly that there have been suicide bombing plots inside this country.


And i suppose you also believe that the same people who failed to shoot down three passenger aircraft with hundreds of military aircraft somehow managed to stop those? Funny....


I also believe that in order to carry them out the would be terrorist had to assimiliate to America and American culture. That assimilation in itself has prevented the attacks.


Why would they have to assimilate? You think they have to work minimum wage jobs to buy books to learn how to make bombs or material to construct them with? Do you have ANY idea how much money the Saudis give to OBL and others to keep them from bringing the war home? Do you still believe in Muslim hijackers despite the absence of their names on the passenger lists, and the fact that a few were still very much alive in other countries after the fact, and that some passports miraculously survived the inferno to be picked up on the scene by investigators?


Let's be honest, America has a whole lot going for it as far as entertainment and beauty when compared with the barren wastelands of the middle eastern desert and sports like playing keep away with a dead goat on horseback.


Sure you do and it's been distracting you from the fact that your government creates many of those barren wastelands while your watching 'the game'.


Would be attacker comes to this country with "Death to the great white satan!" on his mind, spends a little time and money on our mindless entertainments, maybe hooks up with a cocktail waitress for a fun night, and then figures "Eh, screw it." and decides to just stay here and enjoy life outside of a war zone. I could be wrong, but I may not be that far off.


Muslims can't even hate properly then? Is their in your opinion anything they do 'rigtht' or are they so useless that they probably deserve the death and destruction currently being visisted on them in Iraq?



Yes, George W. Bush has gone on the news so many times talking about how he wanted to wipe Iraq off the map.


I think he has gotten closer than Ahmadinejad did and his certainly been far more successful at wiping some countries off the map than the Iranian 'leader' ( who does not control the armed forces) has. In fact Iran has no such capability and Ahmadinejad wants the Israeli government removed; incidentally that's something a good proportion of Israeli's want as well.


In fact, he wants to do it so badly he decided to rebuild their country just so he can do it all over again. I've heard Khameni and Alamindijad (sp) say they wanted every Israellite dead.


Some references would be nice! Lets listen to these apparent fundamentalist dreams while we ignore the fact that the American policy in Iraq will at current speed manage such a feat in Iraq decades before the Iranians could ever do the same against Israel. Since when does ISrael need any help when it comes to defend themselves any ways? They wanted that stupid piece of land in the middle of desert so why don't we leave them to their stupidity?


Heh, I was wondering the same thing about you, actually.


It took years and years .



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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I already have my proper education, thank you. Worked very hard for my bachelor's degree and my minor certifications.


Which probably in part explains why American industry is being outsources to the rest of the world.


As for how I became this badly informed, a ridiculous amount of time spent reading books on foreign policy, newspaper archives, following the news, and a helping of common sense deserves all the credit for that.


Funny how it did the same but actually managed to become informed. Just shows you that it's not how much effort you put it ( but it helps) but if your reading stuff that can be verified!

Stellar



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:41 PM
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reply to post by StellarX
 


All of this coming from a south african. They've got a great track record for human rights, whites and africans alike.
It's good to see you focusing on other peoples problems instead of the ones at home, kudos. I'm glad you've taken time out of your busy schedule to spread anti-American hate. Go clean up your own country before you worry about what we're doing.



posted on May, 6 2008 @ 12:00 AM
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Originally posted by BrezhnevX
reply to post by jasonhb
 


USA =land of the free , lol


BS ...

USA is the biggest terrorist nations on this planet...

check this out

www.intellnet.org...


Just because a website it out there doesn't give it any credability... a crack head could get on and make his own site talking about how how america is the biggest terrorist organization, but does that make it true?? next time choose a source with a little bit of credibility and write more than a 1 liner to get a real opinion across...



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