The Conspiracy against Manhood. , page 4

reply to post by Shazam The Unbowed

I dont recall calling (Astyanax) an atheist evolutionist. I simply pointed out that he was, whether he knew it or not, carrying the feminist water.

Well, Shazam, you'll have deduced from my last post that I am indeed the kind of person Conspiriology calls an evolutionist. And yes, I'm an atheist. Our mutual interlocuter knows me well, though not nearly as well as he thinks he does.

Let me add another piece of information about myself for you. I am the native of a poor, backward South Asian country.

In my country, feminism is little more than a strange and rather threatening Western concept. Women in my country are, generally speaking, drudges. They work from the moment they wake up in the morning to the time they fall asleep at night, and they are the first to wake each day and the last to sleep. It is the only way to find time for all they must do. They cook, clean and sew, of course; they nurse and care for their children, of course; but they are also at the eternal beck and call of their husbands, who would consider it an offence against manhood to be seen doing anything that smacks of 'women's work'. In addition, women work in the fields, go to market and walk home burdened with the day's shopping, collect firewood, light and tend the fire, draw and carry water. They can do little else without the permission of their husbands. They are widely considered stupid -- 'A woman's knowledge is no longer than the handle of a rice-spoon'. An speaking of rice, at mealtimes they eat last (eldest son first, then Papa, then the rest of the kids and the father's mother). Their needs are always placed last on the family list. They are, statistically, more poorly nourished, more poorly educated, more often in need of medical attention -- but not, sadly, in receipt of it -- than men.

In addition -- and this is a real problem -- women in my country are increasingly the breadwinners of their families. Many are forced to work as housemaids in the Middle East, under appalling conditions that often include sexual slavery and no legal recourse whatsover. The men stay at home and (don't) look after the children. Often they drink up most of the money the women send home.

Ghastly, primitive, hideously backward? Indeed. Yet -- and here's the kicker -- the situation in my country with regard to women is actually relatively good. Compared with the other nations of South Asia -- India included -- my country has vastly better statistics with respect to women's nutrition, health and education, with respect to maternal mortality and HIV infection among married women, with respect to statutory recognition of women's rights and such horrors as human trafficking. There are no child brides. Compare it with a place like Afghanistan and it's paradise -- which is what the tourist brochures often call it.

My friend: the rise of the West -- that magnificent, complex culture, that economic and military might, the quality of life its citizens now enjoy -- all these, at least in part, are directly attributable to the slow yet progressive recognition of women as individuals rather than chattels, together with their gradual yet inexorable emancipation and empowerment. The process began among the Germanic tribes of northern Europe in ancient times; Tacitus commented on the uppitiness of their women, I seem to recall; certainly, other observers did. Such comments have been made about European women by non-European observers for some two thousand years at least. The world and culture you inhabit were built in partnership with women, something that only the West can boast. And not all of the West, not all the time; historians have pointed out that the Allies won the Second World War in part because they were willing and able to mobilize women into the workforce, which the Germans would not do. Albert Speer, who was Minister of Production of the Third Reich after Goering proved incompetent, recalled trying to persuade Hitler, to no avail, to do it.

Look: I'm a man, and I'm no metrosexual either. I have a Western cultural background (an accident of personal history) and education, and I treat women as one of your enlightened compatriots would. Nevertheless I am a man of my country, and believe me, in my country a man has to prove his 'manhood' or resign himself to a life of failure and constant opprobrium. I am not a failure; I have done my proving. But I abhor that kind of manhood, which is about nothing but force and bullying and oppression of women; and frankly, I abhor the line this thread has taken. It gives aid and comfort to those who would return us to the days of wifebeating, rape as 'seduction' and the reduction of women to chattel slaves. I am not accusing you of going so far yourself, but believe me, that is where this line of talk ultimately leads.

When all the women of the world are liberated, perhaps we can return to this subject. There is much to be done before we reach that state, and arguments like yours only perpetuate the ancient, bullying stereotypes and make the work harder. It is hard enough as it is.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by Astyanax]