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The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry

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posted on May, 14 2008 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


I am somewhat disappointed. I was still holding out hope that he would accpet your debate challenge and display his research talents for review by his Above Top Secret peers.




posted on May, 14 2008 @ 08:58 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
it now appears that our good friend freight tomsen, who was apparently banned on ATS, is now on the Freemasonry Watch forum claiming that the Three Amigos are Masons, and that his life has been threatened.


Wow. I had never looked at that site in depth until today... it's CRAZY. Rambling text, interspersed with pictures that have nothing to do with the text... you have to wonder what kind of mind would put something like that together!



posted on May, 14 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by Masonic Light
it now appears that our good friend freight tomsen, who was apparently banned on ATS
Not banned yet... but 5 warns at the moment.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 03:35 AM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


Road warrior 31

What do you consider a high-level mason?

If you believe that it is 33° masons, i would like to invite you to dedate that in the following thread, and explain why you choose the Scottish Rite (which has 33 degrees), above the other side orders with regards to importance? Is it simply because it has a higher number?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I asked Freaight Tomsen the same question, but he has not done so.

Since your argument depends on the existence of these 'high-level' masons, i feel it is important to establish the validity of that point before the rest of the argument can be argued, since if the premiss is invalid, the conclusion will be invalid no matter how well the case is argued.

It is my opinion that all anti-masons delibarately ignore this debate, because failure to prove their point destroys their argument, and they would rather hang on to a wrong belief than to admit the truth.

I would love to see your response and answers to the questions that I posed in my first post, and sincerely hope that you will take up the challenge.

Of course, if you believe that 'high-level' masons are not 33° masons, but something different, I am equally interested to hear what you have to say.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 09:13 AM
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reply to post by Saurus
 


man, why do you feel personally threat, i am trying , like
99% of everyone here in ATS, to put light over conspiracy
against universal freedom and justice.

man, why do you get behind your freemason barricade
and ready to fire, telling me to accept a challenge.
we are not enemies here, we suppose
to be here, all together, as a team to deny ignorance
and exposed injustice not to be competitors.

i never accused a specific level of freemasonry man, but only
high level '' corrupted freemasons'', that have been chosen or ''tap''

man, since hundreds of years, freemason, have been accuses of
corruption and conspiracy, and so only because of some
powerful corrupted ones, who use their power, to profit on
others. All family have their, BLACK SHEEPS, there is nothing to be ashamed
of, it is wiser to try to put light on those dark side then trying
to hide it. after everything is cleanup, freemasonry will become
a better fraternity and accepted from everybody.

please, let's not be one against each other man , let’s try to all be
conspiracy theorist with the will to change, what HAVE to be change
and to get rid of dishonest elites who threat humanity with secret society, secret oats
and secret agenda, maybe someday freemasonry will become
a fraternity without secret and dark side and only then we will all be living together
without fear.

i, and probably everybody here, have nothing against ordinary freemason man, but
only against '' corrupted greedy crooks'' who want to keep a part freemasonry, secret
and hidden on the dark and don't believe, in man being all equal in a peaceful world

man, like i told you, we are here into a conspiracy forum site,
i think we should work together, instead of being, against each others...

that is the only important challenge, and i hope, we will all, accept it




posted on May, 15 2008 @ 09:18 AM
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Originally posted by Road Warrior 31

man, why do you feel personally threat, i am trying , like
99% of everyone here in ATS, to put light over conspiracy
against universal freedom and justice.





Thats exactly what this thread is doing. To put light over the conspiracy against universal freedom and justice...two masonic ideals.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


A simple question:

What do you consider to be a high level mason?



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 09:51 AM
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reply to post by Saurus
 


LOL
,

ok man
,

i mean high level, those who have the most influence and powerful
‘’Position’’ on the organisation, there could be a lot of 33 degrees freemason in the organisation
but not all freemason, are powerful on the international organisation
And not all 33 degree freemason are ‘’ tap ‘’ to be chosen and enlighten of secret agenda.

Man, That is the theory i tried to expose on the previous page.

Please man, thing about my proposition, i know there is good and honest freemasons, around the world
if we work all, hand on hand, we will be stronger And we could be a lot more helpful to humanity

tks



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 09:59 AM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


Are you saying that you are not anti-Freemasonry?



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 10:35 AM
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reply to post by Saurus
 


man, of course i am not abti-freemason,

there is nothing bad about fraternities, only about secret fraternities
and secret societies.

i think freemasonery have been corrupted since it's begining and create
to gain power by powerful elites, because it always been a secret society, ex-freemason and civilisation force the freemasonery to open more their doors since the last 50 years but there still a long way to go.
freemasons men, are ordinary good men in general.

if freemasoney get rid of all corupted freemason and if freemasonery
stop trying to hide secret and manipulate members, it can become a very useful organisation.

man, i think we all have to separate, ordinary freemason who are victimes of
corupted powerful freemason, who have been the roots of freemasonry

freemasonry have to change if it want to survive and freemasons have to stop being afraid man and talk about coruption and denounce greedy elites freemason who control and use freemasonry.

man, if ordinary freemason really want to save their fraternity, i think they have
to join their force with conspiracy theorist and TALK about secret agenda and coruption they are witness so freemasonry could past from '' A hidden CULT '' to a real fraternity with freedom of speech and real freedom of beliefs.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


I don't consider myself a victim and I have never been manipulated by another mason.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 11:56 AM
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Originally posted by Saurus
reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


I don't consider myself a victim and I have never been manipulated by another mason.
Maybe because you haven't eaten the secret oats that he refers to a few posts up... I haven't either, but I am getting kinda hungry...



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


So your saying...

That it is possible for there to be a bad Mason?

No way. Never woulda guessed it!

Anyways, the crux of your argument then is that "influential" people have power over all Masonry on an international level. They do not, they are limited to their jurisdiction. The Ohio Grand Master has no power over any other state for instance. And American lodges and British Lodges are not connected in anyway except recognition.

Most "influential" Masons hold influence over a very limited area, not far reaching. It is run like a Fuedal system in a way.

To be fair though, your argument makes more sense then 99.9% of other theories that base their claims on numbers instead of influence and importance.

You would find though, more often then not, those who reach such high and lofty positions in Masonry are the kindest and mosy sincere of Masons.

Granted, we cannot know everything about everyone, and I will never say that there are no "bad" Masons in high and respected positions.

But I will say they are that way on their own, and has nothing to do with Masonry.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


. And American lodges and British Lodges are not connected in anyway except recognition.

.


well man, when i talked to my friend's father, i told him that anyway
his lodge is to far away from where i live so it doesn't interest me to join in
and he told me that, him and a group of freemason wanted to open another lodge closer to where i live, that will be base on freemasonry teaching only, he got enough of his lodge because all freemason are only interested in medals, freemasonry bling bling and snobby show-off.

so they are waiting for the European approbation to open the new lodge
that will be near where i live. he clearly told me that they cannot open a new lodge and do whatever they want. European head office control all international lodges and lodges have a limits powers on their jurisdiction.

even if i am NOT at all anti-freemasonry, i will probably not join in because he told me that his life in freemasonry cost him a lot of money (his was proud to tell me he invest in his self ) being in freemasonry since so long, i asked him, if he is a 33 degree mason and he told me no yet, because he went throw all levels in the York rite and he switch and start all over in Scottish rite.

man, European headquarter is indeed, in charge and in power over all freemason lodges, it like here in canada, we are suppose to have our Sovereignty but in reality if England ask us to do or go somewhere (like Afghanistan..) or if they ask us money, canada listen to england's orders. it is just hypocritly hidden, so it is the same with freemasonry, so why trying to hide it.

man, Please try to be honest, you all have much to gain to be honest instead of only talking about the nice front and hide what is going on behind the curtain. man i told you that all famelies have their dark story and there is nothing to be ashamed of it and a lot to gain to tell all the truth.

please, we are here in a conspiracy forum, lets talk conspiracy, it is not
a freemason forum for recruiting new members so lets be honest and expose conspiracy

please



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


you really believe this stuff and think we´re playing a charade here, dont you?

*sigh*



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by bushidomason
 


I like masons...and I especially like the "new-found" samurai mason. He helps people, wears a kick-ass hat, and fights with a sword all the while drinking green tea. You, sir, are my hero.



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 




please, we are here in a conspiracy forum, lets talk conspiracy, it is not
a freemason forum for recruiting new members so lets be honest and expose conspiracy


Er. Thought you where here for a discussion? .. Thought you wanted both sides of the story?

Your story is a bunch of hoopla.. here is why.

Someone wants to open a new lodge.. they get the people, they write a constitution, they apply for a charter. The Grand Lodge.. not the European Lodge (what ever the hell that even means) then, during a communication, vote on whether or not to accept the new lodges charter. They have to present their case, their purpose, their ideas and constitution, and then get (I believe) a 3/4ths vote.

Sooo.. either your friends father or what ever he is, is full of crap. You didn't understand. OR my personal opinion .. your just lieing

You seem to have a very schizophrenic take on everything. What is your native language by the way?

PS You do know that the Queen of England is Canada's Head of State right?


[edit on 5/15/2008 by Rockpuck]



posted on May, 15 2008 @ 08:05 PM
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Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


Sooo.. either your friends father or what ever he is, is full of crap. You didn't understand. OR my personal opinion .. your just lieing

You seem to have a very schizophrenic take on everything. What is your native language by the way?

[edit on 5/15/2008 by Rockpuck]


i say nice think about freemason, i say publicly that i am not anti-freemasonry, i was asking for friendly partnership and good relationship
between freemason and conspiracy theorist

and all you have to say is acusing me of lieing, telling me i have a schizophrenic mind and making fun of me ( for the 10th time ) because i am not a americain citizen.


i did wanted to see both side but you don't let me , neighter then any freemason around here, you don't let anybody who wants to try exploring both side do it. because you not interested in anything but your side, you don't care at all about conspiracy, your are not conspiracy theorist at all., why are you her for, if it is not to seek for the truth about conspiracies

because if we talk for freemason it is ok but if we try to find something against freemason it is not OK anymore, it is stupid, imbecile and all nice nickname i saw you say about members who are not freemason.


i am more and more curious about freemason conspiracy because of freemason attitude. you ALWAYS REACT LIKE CULT MEMBERS, COOL DOWN it is a conspiracy forum here, remember.

i once said that i realise here, that freemasonry is untouchable and i will ad that freemason are untrustable because they don't want to here anything but there pro-freemason stories propaganda.

( and that is from a paranoiac freemasons thread, who sees, conspiracy against them,
'' the world roled, upside down here or it is all propaganda by hypnothised cult victims '' )

you first helped me on my exploration journey to find the truth, and now you still helping me but it is to makeup my mind on what will be my ''Final verdic '' on freemasonry...

i am really desapointed about your attitude, i really tought we could help each others but '' THIS TIME YOU LOST MY TRUST FOREVER...



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 02:32 AM
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reply to post by Road Warrior 31
 


It makes sense that our arguments are one sided, since Masons know that there is no conspiracy by Freemasons.

Furthermore, many Masons believe that there is a conspiracy against Freemasonry, which this thread wishes to explore.

How can a Mason argue both sides when he knows only one side to be true?



posted on May, 16 2008 @ 03:10 AM
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Here´s a good example of how anti-masons put fear in the hearts of young people:

Help my parents are freemasons





[edit on 16-5-2008 by Skyfloating]



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