The very real conspiracy against Freemasonry

I don't really know what's entailed but sure why not?

What are we debating exactly?

[edit on 2-5-2008 by freight tomsen]

Originally posted by freight tomsen
I don't really know what's entailed but sure why not?

What are we debating exactly?

Who cares? This is about style, execution and delivery. We doan need no steenking facks!

reply to post by freight tomsen


I can arrange to set this up. We have to agree on a topic though. How about, "Masonry is a 2 level organization and it's upper workings are unknown to regular Masons."

Edit: This just a start. U2u me guys with your thoughts so this topic can continue.


[edit on 2-5-2008 by intrepid]

Originally posted by freight tomsen
I don't really know what's entailed but sure why not?

What are we debating exactly?

Your claims.

Obviously, I want to address all the stuff you wrote about high level Masons sitting around at international HQ grading amateur philosophy papers. That one was classic.

We can the Pike and Hall stuff into it as well if you want.

Oooh.....ooooh. How about "Porch Masons: Fact or fallacy?"

Battle Royal?

that would be cool
IMO that would be pretty neat, but yes I agree that there should be a debate and that would make things pretty interesting and exciting to see.

Do i get to say "Objection your honor, testimony is based on conjecture!"

Ive always wanted to say that.....lol

Great. I really look forward to this one.


freight and masonic light: Be sure to check out the Debate Forum and familiarize yourself with the rules.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by Skyfloating]

Originally posted by bushidomason
Battle Royal?

that would be cool
IMO that would be pretty neat, but yes I agree that there should be a debate and that would make things pretty interesting and exciting to see.

Dibs. I get to sell popcorn. Regular popcorn to the regular Masons, irregular popcorn to the members of P2 and strips of deep-fried shaved liver to the non-Masons.

reply to post by freight tomsen


Freight...I guess it doesnt matter how high up we go, there´s always something "higher kept hidden from us and its evil", according to you.

In your quote is the mention of masons admitting to "beyond 33 degrees masonry", a supersecret order waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay above the highest peak of the mountain.

Id be interested to know exactly which masons make such claims.

i will the masters (Masonic Light, SkyFloating, Chorozon, FitzGibbon & other mason) take this one, for as i am not soo knowlegable as they are.
i'm just here for fun.
FitzGibbon, then i get dibs on the soda
Diet Pepsi = Anti-Masonos
hehe

Originally posted by bushidomason
i will the masters (Masonic Light, SkyFloating, Chorozon, FitzGibbon & other mason) take this one, for as i am not soo knowlegable as they are.
i'm just here for fun.
FitzGibbon, then i get dibs on the soda
Diet Pepsi = Anti-Masonos
hehe

Sorry but I wouldn't wish diet anything on anybody not even Twitchy.

There are some things in this world that are beyond the scope of human pale: water-boarding, sensory-deprivation and diet Pepsi being foremost among them

reply to post by bushidomason

Anybody in for hotdog? yeah I know online post.

Since freemasonry has an age requirement can we put an age requirement on the anti masons too?

Edit: The masons may win by default...

[edit on 5/2/2008 by Choronzon]

reply to post by Choronzon


hahahahaha
well i guess i'm close to pushing that age requiremt
"phew" thank god i'm 19 and not 17

Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by Skyfloating

Originally posted by Amaterasu
Anyone here willing to discuss my points?

Yes, absolutely. Did we miss something?

I don't know if they were points, so much as amorphous ideas, but I'll try to reconstruct her most recent post, working backwards...

[I have to wonder] [WHY] [based on what I see built (or, frequently, not built) in the world around me] [the path each group that is gathered decides to take depends a great deal on who is assembled for what purpose].

Did I distill that correctly?

My guess is you've answered your own question—what a group does depends on who that group is and what that group wants to do. If you're asking why that is, it seems kind of obvious. Why would a group do something that the group didn't want to do?

No, I think you pretty much gutted it of its heart. Not a problem. I have better things to do than present pearls for examination...

[shrug]

Nonetheless, I do want to express my love for you all, for you make my life far more interesting than you tell me it should be.

[smile]

OK guys, the topic please.

*Gets out popcorn for the Mason Debate(s)*

Sorry 'Trep....Please back on topic, Thank You...

My fellow ATSers, after seeing the alarming number of genuinely libel based anti-mason threads, I have come out of my semi-retirement. Much to the shagrin of the brethren, I'm sure And before I'm accused of being paid to do this - I assure you, I am a Ph.D. student with a full life and they'd have to pay me (exactly who is supposed to be paying me, by the way?) quite a lot to make up for all the posting I can do

I make a distinction between truly honest threads asking questions and exploring conspiracies involving masonry, and libel based threads. The former are in my opinion what high quality boards should have. Those threads seek to seriously answer questions and concerns people have about the fraternity, and masons are respected as one of a few LEGITIMATE sources to get those answers. Threads based in libel are those made for the sole intention of falsely spreading theories without care for truth about the fraternity. Those threads disregard what actual masons say and turn into a orgy of citing other conspiracy theorists, none of whom have ever cited a valid source. I am saddened to see that we have so many of the later type of threads emerging, but I am happy to see a few good threads like this one.

There are so many things I could say given whats happened in this thread, but I'll stick to one point:

I don't need to re-vise my conspiracy knowledge (not theory) to something like that, because I've already stated that it is just like you said. Most Masons are benevolent and that is how the higher-level malevolent ones maintain the facade.

Ultimately, the bulk of the conspiracy mongering lately has resulted in this sort of response - the masons here don't know what they are talking about, because they are "low level masons." I commend the patience I have seen in trying to explain there is no higher level than a Master Mason, but I offer yet another line of reason for the anti-mason's to consider:

To begin with, there are quite a few 33rd degrees on this board, and quite a few 32nd degrees. I am a 32nd degree, and it means nothing - although I enjoyed watching the plays. While we all agree the numbers mean nothing and have no relation to rank, if you insist on making this connection despite having no proof, consider this - the Scottish Rite takes people from the 4th to the 32nd degree in one or two days. All it takes to be a member of "high ranking masonry" is a few hundred dollars, and one or two days. If high ranking masons are the people ruling the world, how is it any regular master mason can become one in two days? This fact is VERIFIABLE, because the calendars and agendas for Scottish Rite reunions are public and you can see clearly that everyone in the class goes up in a matter of days. They even post about it on their blogs:

desmoinesconsistory.blogspot.com...

Please explain this fact to me. Because the FACTS completely discredit THIS:

Masons rise in degrees through a process of rituals and initiations. They read books like Machiavelli’s “The Prince” and Albert Pike’s “Morals and Dogma” then write essays detailing whether they agree philosophically with people like Pike, Hegel, Machiavelli and others. These essays are then sent in to the Headquarters of International Freemasonry and reviewed by top-level Masons. If the initiate agrees that the few should control the many, and that secret society rule is virtuous, etc. then he is congratulated and promoted through higher degrees. If the initiate disagrees that the few should control the many, and holds a genuinely moral position, then he is congratulated and promoted within his existing branch, never to rise above the Blue degrees. Every Mason will disagree with this however, because most Blue Lodge Masons genuinely do not know, and high-ranking Masons are sworn to secrecy.

I am a libertarian, and a strong believer that the people should control the people. Yet I am a 32nd degree mason, and became one in the course of 2 days (see above). How can this be? To top it all off, all the degrees - the text of every single ritual - can be bought online, by non-masons, from the Scottish Rite SJ itself. So much for secrecy.

I am in agreement with the OP that the theories, like the ones I have quoted, are a conspiracy against masonry. They are a red herring. They seek to remove the spotlight from the real evils of our time - corrupt politicians and the like - and shift the spot light on someone else. These theories are a clever disinformation campaign by someone who doesn't want people to consider the real evil in this world.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by LightinDarkness]

Very well said I’m glad to see that other masons on ATS are contributing to this effort to show the real side of freemasonry, and not this false illusion of how anti-masons view us.