Rosicrucians, what are they?

If anyone is looking for a good book on the Rosicrucians, I would recommend The Rosicrucian Enlightenment Revisited, which is a collection of essays edited by Ralph White which emerged from a conference held in the town of Cesky Krumlov in the Czech Republic in 1995. The town itself has an interesting "alchemical" history and the book is quite fascinating, expecially if the reader has read, or is at least familiar with, The Rosicrucian Enlightenment by Francis Yates.

Hello, by the way, I am new here. I am still finding my way around, so bear with me. Briefly, I am a very active regular Freemason, 32� AASR NMJ, Knights Templar in the York Rite. Mostly, I am active in my Craft Lodge as well as Royal Arch Chapter. I find many of the topics on ATS interesting, but I am sure I will most often be found posting to the Secret Societies forum.

Forgive my atrocious spelling...what can I say...I'm new!! (expecially...sheesh!)

Melcombe,
Welcome! We all have our moments with spelling and grammar, btw. Enjoy ATS. I look forward to your secret society posts!

BTW, having this thread revisited is certainly a trip down memory lane. yikes! WHat changes...did I really say some of this stuff? *blushes*
Don't judge me by these early posts. Much of what I posted months back...doesn't reflect my current views.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

However, many believe that modern Freemasonry (from the 17th century onward) was influenced, or perhaps even organized, by the Rosicrucians.
During the Rosicrucians� heyday, Masonic Lodges were still craftsmen�s guilds. But about the same time the Rosicrucians �disappeared�, Freemasonry underwent a profound transformation, and the Masonic Legend of the Third Degree contains many parallels to the legend of Christian Rosenkreutz.

Very intersting observation, ML. That sheds some light on how people look on both groups today. I can see when you speculated the way you did.

Originally posted by Masonic Light
For the most part, those who advanced in the GD usually left to form their own Orders. Crowley formed Astrum Argentium, Dion Fortune formed Society of the Inner Light, and Paul Foster Case formed Builders of the Adytum (of which I�m a member). All of these Orders are based upon basic GD/Rosicrucian orthodoxy.

After doing a short google search for these three groups, I see B.O.T.A. seems alive and well. Society of the Inner Light is alive and well in Great Britain. But, Astrum Argentium seems a little disorganized. Would you say all three provide similar information to study?

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by DontTreadOnMe]

Are we talking about the Masons that we know today, or the order and beginings of the Freemasons altogether.

If I remember correctly, there are some that think Freemasonry has links back to the days of King Solomon, 600 BC or so(don't remember the exact year frame). I guess it depends where you think a groups history starts.

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
After doing a short google search for these three groups, I see B.O.T.A. seems alive and well. Society of the Inner Light is alive and well in Great Britain. But, Astrum Argentium seems a little disorganized. Would you say all three provide similar information to study?

They all have the same goal, just different methods. BOTA and Society of the Inner Light are very similar; the major difference being that BOTA uses Tarot as its symbolic basic, while SIL uses the Tattwa system of the Hindu mystics.
Crowley�s A.A. is the most similar to the original Golden Dawn. It has the same degree structure, divided into the same three orders: G.�.D.�. (Order of the Golden Dawn), R.R. et A.C. (Order of Rosae Rubae at Aurie Crucis), and A.�.A.�. (Order of the Silver Star). You can read the Syllabus of the Curriculum of the Order, written by Crowley, here:

www.thelema.org...

Fiat Lvx.

Have you ever heard of Samael Aun Weor, Masonic Light?

Originally posted by Tamahu
Have you ever heard of Samael Aun Weor, Masonic Light?

Yes, but I don�t know much about him except that he has written books on Gnosticism and Qabalah. I�ve been told that his �Tarot and the Kabbalah� is a good book, but haven�t yet had the chance to read it.

[Edited on 3-6-2004 by Masonic Light]

Originally posted by Masonic Light
Probably not. The first Rosicrucian documents emerged on the scene in the early 17th century, while the earliest Masonic records are dated in the 14th century... deletia ...During the Rosicrucians� heyday, Masonic Lodges were still craftsmen�s guilds. But about the same time the Rosicrucians �disappeared�, Freemasonry underwent a profound transformation, and the Masonic Legend of the Third Degree contains many parallels to the legend of Christian Rosenkreutz.
There is no real evidence to support my theory here, so I will state in advance that it�s entirely speculation. But it seems not only possible, but likely, that what we today know as Freemasonry is a result of the Rosicrucians joining the mason�s guilds to conceal themselves... deletia ...If true, this would help explain why a workingman�s association underwent the radical transformation into a philosophical and mystic society in such a short time.

Apparently then, according such speculation as well as the historical sequence, the Order of the Rose Cross preceded Masonic mysticism. That is the Rosicrucians, whose origins are lost in history, were originally mystical, while the Mason's trade guild was appropriated by them. While only speculative, circumstantially the hypothesis is meritorious.

Originally posted by Aeon10101110That is the Rosicrucians, whose origins are lost in history, were originally mystical, while the Mason's trade guild was appropriated by them.

Sounds more like the Masons did the appropriating to me.

.

[edit on 16-9-2004 by Tamahu]

Quote: "they seemed to take great pride in calling the pope the antichrist".

Jeeze just study a little history - Ever hear of the "Protestant Revolution". It becomes apparent that the Relationship between the European States (Hence also U.S.A. Since we started off as a British Colony - eventually evolving into a Greco-Roman style
"Democratic-Republic") & the Catholic Church is at the heart of the Conspiracy. Why else would you even have "Secret Societies"?
The Roman Catholic Church didn't even want people reading the
"Holy Scriptures" - just kissing the Pope's ass!!!!!

In modern times the "Church & State" desire for Power & Controll over the People has definitly been surpased by the Corporations (in my humble opinion)!!!!!!!!!

I thought Christian Rosencreutz was a mythical figure one who didn't ever exist. I thought that the only occult figure who really believed he was an actual person was Rudolf Steiner. Any truth to that?

And while we're on the topic of Rudolf Steiner, was he ever a member ot the OTO? I read a book recently that stated that he was buried in OTO regalia. No footnote to that statement.

And for you experts on Crowley, what did the Beast think of Steiner? In all of Crowley's writings that i've read i have not found a single thing on Steiner.

One more thing. Is there a good book out there on the history of the Golden Dawn? I'm not talking about a book like Regardie's. I mean one dealing strictly with its history.

Originally posted by miltie
Is there a good book out there on the history of the Golden Dawn?

"Twilight of the Magicians" by R.A. Gilbert. There was also one called "Women of the Golden Dawn", but I don't remember the author. It was very interesting, focusing on the fact that G.'.D.'. was one of the first Victorian secret societies to admit women on an equal level, which attracted feminists like Maude Gonne.

Fiat Lvx.

Hey, M.L. Thanks for that book, Women of the Golden Dawn .
It is by Mary K Greer and is still in print.

They have a really cool Egyptology Museum in San Jose. I went there once as a kid. The place was neat. felt like an Egyptian crypt.

as far as i know, and heard, the "original" Rosicrucians were supposed to be the holder of ancient visdom and technology. i do not remember where i read that, but it is a very long time ago.

Saw a lot of Golden Dawn talk. Here is a thread on the Order of The Golden Dawn.

The Hermetic Order of The Golden Dawn

In tracking the Golden Dawn back, I connected Crowley to the Masons, and the Masons to the Rosicrucian Order.

This was taken from the official North American AMORC site:

Throughout history a number of prominent persons in the fields of science and the arts have been associated with the Rosicrucian movement, such as Leonardo da Vinci (1452 to 1519), Cornelius Heinrich Agrippa (1486 to 1535), Paracelsus (1493 to 1541), Francoiz Rabelais (1494 to 1553), Theresa of Avila (1515 to 1582), John of the Cross (1542 to 1591), Francis Bacon (1561 to 1626), Jacob Boehme (1575 to 1624), Rene Descartes (1596 to 1650), Blaise Pascal (1623 to 1662), Baruch Spinoza (1632 to 1677), Isaac Newton (1642 to 1727), Gottfried Wilhelm Leibnitz (1646 to 1716), Benjamin Franklin (1706 to 1790), Thomas Jefferson (1743 to 1826), Michael Faraday (1791 to 1867), Marie Corelli (1855 to 1924), Claude Debussy (1862 to 1918), Erik Satie (1866 to 1925) and Edith Piaf (1915 to 1963). Crossing the Atlantic The Order crossed the Atlantic in the late 17th century when a Rosicrucian colony was established in Philadelphia. Later such eminent Americans as Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and Thomas Paine were intimately connected with the Rosicrucian community. Throughout history there have been periods of greater and lesser activity of Rosicrucianism around the world. While inactive in the Americas during the 19th century, the Order was very active in France, Germany, Switzerland, Russia, Spain, and other lands during this time. While Rosicrucianism is primarily a western phenomenon it is also eclectic and uniquely draws on the diverse mystical traditions of ancient Greece, China, India and Persia. Naturally enough, it also embraces the great explosion of human scientific and philosophical knowledge of the 19th and 20th centuries.

Quite creepy in a way... to know that most intellectuals, artists and scientists that inflenced modern eastern civilisation were affiliated with such an hermetic gnostic group, and that the nature of rosicrucian's activities in society and politics are always hidden from the public...

Miltie, it is obvious that Christian Rosencreutz was not a living person. First of all, "rosencreutz" is a combination of two german words which literally means "RosyCross". The "Christian" part of it leads probably to Templar symbology... considering the symbol of the Templar Knights was the Red Cross (hey... never thought the Red Cross organisation had something to do with the Templars??? :, and that they imposed themselves as a Christian elite for a few centuries. The Rosycross might very well be nothing less that the continuation of the Order of the Templar Kights after all. That makes sense considering their former members in Britain, Germany and France all shared interests for alchemy and aversion for the Catholic Church (that banned and taken down the Templars)...

It has been claimed by many historians that Rosencreutz was Francis Bacon, the same guy who is claimed -with credibility- to have written plays under the name of "Shakespeare", who is hailed -officially- by the AMORC as one of the greatest founders of the rosycross philosophy and occult knowledge in the western world. But since Rosencreutz have lived for more than 100 years, which is hardly possible for a person of that time (everyone lived to up to something like 50-60 years old), it might make a lot of sense that this character would be the impersonation of more than one rosicrucian... maybe not just Bacon but also his mentor too, John Dee, counsellor of Elizabeth the First and alchemist.