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Intelligence agent shot by police in broad daylight after high-speed chase

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posted on May, 4 2008 @ 04:45 AM
Is there any video of the incident? Shouldn't there be a dash cam video of the shooting as well as some helicopter shots from local news sources?

Last week there was a high speed chase in LA that I watched. The conclusion of the chase had the driver walk backwards toward the cops to be handcuffed. Then the cops immediatly, with weapons drawn, searched the vehicle. There were several officers on the scene. I find it impossible to believe that they could miss 3 weapons in a jeep. Especially a shot gun.

This story is odd in many ways. I really hope the suitcase nuke story is simply someone piling on and trying to generate fear.

posted on May, 4 2008 @ 04:57 AM
What ever is going on, none of it makes sence and is raising more questions that it was intended. Obviously this was not very well thought out, even 9/11 had less number of conflicting stories, even the DC Madam as a matter of fact.

All the more makes me wonder WTF is really going on.

posted on May, 4 2008 @ 02:30 PM
So, I wonder what kind of warhead package the "cia" Carnaby was after? Was it one of the missing Soviet nukes related to the SADM?

I would guess it would be something along the line of a SADM if was going to be used for demolition.

There are small nukes used in recoiless rifles but they only bounce 1 to 2 kilotons....1000 to 2000 tons.

If it needed to be launched from somewhere outside an area, in toward a refinery it may be something along the lines of a W54..or W82. the device is much more powerful then a Nitrate bomb. (OKC Bomb) If it was deployed somewhere near Houston I would guess it would be near Texas City.

Texas City is reknowned for recovering from a explosion at the refinery that injured over 5000 people. I wonder if someone has studied the area and come up with CA in order to understand the full implications of the 1947 explosion?

Anyways..the greater Houston area has a higher GDP then most countries in this world, including Saudi Arabia.. so if somebody wanted to cripple the US economy, cause oil to skyrocket, bring mass confusion to the Western World then this would be a good area to do the dirty deed.

A 1 kiloton explosion via nuke of somesort would destroy the whole of Texas City because of the initial flash and heat of the explosion causing the refineries in the area to explode.

Texas City looks like one big would be a disaster....unlike anything I could imagine.

[edit on 4-5-2008 by whiteraven]

[edit on 4-5-2008 by whiteraven]

posted on May, 4 2008 @ 03:46 PM
Wow....a real cover-up at last.

Did the CIA really make the claim that they didnt know him? If so, they´re lying, arent they.

posted on May, 4 2008 @ 04:25 PM
Yes, they would be lieing if they said they didn't know him. Especially he is related to the Boudi Carnaby of Army Intelligence, Ret. (WWII). They guys uncle, which can be found out about in more detail on pg 3.

Also the media mentions him having had pictures taken with fed agents, and at Langley in side CIA HQ, a give away on it's own. He might not have been a direct employee, but he was plainly known by them.

posted on May, 4 2008 @ 05:18 PM

Looks like widow Carnaby is about to sue HPD for wrongful death. The body is still warm and she is going for retirement income.

This is going too make a lot more of his doings public. I would bet that she is going to get some side money from sources if this is for real. Shut up money.

If not, and she goes to court you can bet your Texas butt that she will lose.
The judge is going to side with the oil and the money. Oil and Cia go hand in hand.

Looks like Carnaby's kin is from Lebanon! Intrigue.

[edit on 4-5-2008 by whiteraven]

posted on May, 5 2008 @ 08:21 AM
reply to post by whiteraven

If she is planning on making anything public, I would have to bet that she will meet a similar fate as her husband. It will probably be closer to the DC Madam though.

posted on May, 5 2008 @ 03:48 PM
Mission Failed.

CIA get's rid of the evidence
HPD helps

End of Story

posted on May, 5 2008 @ 08:37 PM
The question is though, what evidence, what was it they were after so badly enough to kill for? Why go through such lengths to cause a scene then say it was nothing. Some where, someone knows and they know they should put it all out on the table.

Problem is, their afraid, or already dead, and both do the public no good.
Shame, he must have had some very important info, dirt or was going to blow the cover off of a major scandal.

Too bad, it is getting buried and no one has any means of finding out why.

[edit to add video links]

Was just going over youtube vids on the incident, and figured it might be of use to review the news reports.

Mentions family and ties
ABC 13
Mentions his plate registered as "national security command center"
Shows some of the live footage
Local 2

[edit on 5-5-2008 by ADVISOR]

posted on May, 6 2008 @ 09:47 AM
The anatomy of a character assassination, and the smoking gun the media won't touch!

If I had any doubt that something deep was going on here, it was erased this morning after watching my local NBC affiliate run their "investigative" report on Carnaby, which was nothing more than the media-assisted character assassination of a dead man. I'll get to the smoking gun in a sec, but first I just wanted to give you a rundown of the "investigative" report. Here are their smoking guns that prove Carnaby was nothing more than a poser. The picture of Carnaby at CIA headquarters is easily explained away because it would be like investigative reporter guy standing in the lobby of Houston City Hall, having his picture taken, then claiming the picture was from his days as a city councilman, first nail in the dreaded coffin. Next, one of Carnaby's placques had "completion" misspelled on it and another seemed to be missing some kind of watermark, second nail in the dreaded coffin. Third, fake CIA badges can easily be bought on the internet, third nail in the dreaded coffin. This is what passes for investigative reporting nowadays folks!
Notice the almost cherry-picking nature of the report, and in all honesty since Carnaby is now dead and all this evidence is in the custody of officials, there's no telling if somebody pulled a switch-a-rooski or not. Every possession that's been attributed to Carnaby has been compromised IMO. BTW, this whole investigative report was corraborated by some ex-CIA (I thought they were never "ex") agent now turned lawyer working here in Houston. Yes, I'm sure this guy is being completely unbiased and is in no way spinning the story, final nail in the dreaded coffin.

Now, for the smoking gun that the media won't touch, what happened to the George Tenet book At the Center of the Storm that was personally signed by Tenet, and not just signed, but had a hand-written message from Tenet to Carnaby in which Tenet refers to Carnaby as "brother" and "007"? That book is the end all, be all of Carnaby's legitimacy, and it just seems to have disappeared off the radar. It's this simple, if the note in the book was forged, then what better way to slam dunk the case against the man. If the note was authentic, it ties Carnaby directly to Tenet, the freakin' ex-director of CIA!! Although, by now I'm sure evidence is being falsified/created regarding that book just in case they need it.

That book along with things such as what Advisor found regarding Carnaby's dad is all that's really needed to show that we're being lied to.


[edit on 6-5-2008 by Dr Love]

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 12:17 PM
Perhaps reading this article can shine a different perspective through esp the 1st and third posts.

[edit on 7-5-2008 by USAF1N051]

posted on May, 7 2008 @ 02:19 PM
reply to post by USAF1N051

Oh man, there's some good critical thinking in those blogs. Thanks for the link.

As of today, May 7, this story has, for all intents and purposes, gone bye bye from the news here in Houston.


posted on May, 7 2008 @ 09:29 PM
reply to post by Dr Love

Every time I have sat down to add to this thread, a little bell goes off that says, "No!! Stop typing!"

Wonder what it would take to garner interest at the Alphabet agencies?

Say "hello!" folks, they are reading now!
Of course this story id dead. Of course he is being discredited. It just leaves a web page open to be cited by a Dis-info debunker three years from now.
This is still one of the top three Scariest Threads that I have seen this year. Makes me wonder what's up for Houston, as I've said before...

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 02:13 AM
Yes, it would seem that this odd story has been ushered into the "Active Denial" phase.

But I still have a few questions:

If Carnaby Didn't work for for one of the many "Alphabet Agencies", even as a part-time "contractor", what DID he do for a living?

Some say he owned a "Security" company, others discount that. He had to earn an income somehow, how else could he have afforded all those vehicles he purchased over the course of a decade from his long-time friend Mr. Helfman?

At the time of his death (execution? suicide?) Carnaby was driving a Jeep SUV.

What where the other vehicles he had purchased? Were they also SUV's, ideal for transporting small groups of assult-weapon armed "troops"?

Were they high-end luxury cars; indicative, perhaps, of some one attemping to portray an affluent, "connected" lifestyle?

Or maybe he went for the "Full on Bond" image; buying a series of high-priced, high-powered, exotic sports cars; a la Aston-Martin and Lotus?

Exactly what one would expect of a "Secret Agent"-wannabe?

How many 007-wannabe's would deign to drive a ....Jeep??

And what about his personal effects? Who gets those items? Especially that PDA-cellphone Carnaby thought worth his life to retrieve from the Jeep, after finally surrendering to the HPD.

And about that phone:

Who was he talking to while "careening" through the streets of Huston? Has anyone thought to to "dump" his cellphone record to find the number of the person(s) on the other end of Carnaby's "last call"? Or have those records "disappeared" already?

Will the phone be turned over to his next of kin? Will its memory still be intact and "unaltered" when/if it is released?

I'm not holding my breath.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 04:01 AM
Starred and Flagged, Interesting read!

The CIA denying his was a former agent is absolutely nothing new and completely expected when an incident like this goes down.

Robert Baer, John Stockwell and Victor Marchetti are all former Case Officers who released & published damning accounts of their work for the CIA in books they wrote, and were highly critical of their foreign policy.
Immediately the Spooks went into defensive mode denying they were Case Officers, going so far as to claim some of them only had "logistical" jobs at the CIA and some were employed as "janitors",
. Marchetti was the target of a smear campaign and much of his book was censored when released.

Remember Gary Powers? The man whose Spy Plane crashed in the Soviet Union? The Eisenhower Administration staged a huge cover-up saying it was a Weather Research craft, Gary Powers wasn't employed by the USAF, etc...
Until the Soviets took the cameras from the U-2 and Gary Powers alive and well and showed it on TV.

This is normal behavior when a CIA Agent's cover is exposed or they are involved in an expose or captured in the line of duty.
They are simply disavowed, cut off and left to rot; because any attempt at trying to defend their man or explain his actions would reveal a sh*tstorm of covert action that could get the US into serious international tensions.

You go off the reservation and the CIA does not come after you.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 08:58 AM

Originally posted by jasonjnelson
Every time I have sat down to add to this thread, a little bell goes off that says, "No!! Stop typing!"

Wonder what it would take to garner interest at the Alphabet agencies?

Say "hello!" folks, they are reading now!

Are they reading this, yes, but it's all just speculation. There's a line you don't cross and it hasn't been crossed by anyone here. All the information that we've come up with is public knowledge. I wouldn't advise anybody taking it upon themselves to delve further into the issue though. We don't need to be losing members to needless suicides.


posted on May, 8 2008 @ 07:57 PM

Good job!

I just got back from a few days out training, and first thing I decided to look up for possable updates was any thing on this case. I was going to post the link you did, good thing I scanned this page before posting.

For those who didn't read the linked source being referenced, I found it at cryptome listed as: "Ex-FBI Lies About Knowing Cop-Murdered Ex-CIA", same site different title for hyper link. Any how here are some high lights from said site;

The officer was also told to find a reason to arrest Carnaby. This brings up question number one: if the ID was fake, why did the cops need to find a reason to arrest him? Impersonating a federal official is already a crime.

Carnaby was shot in the back while exiting the vehicle and then shot again in the chest by another officer. He was put in handcuffs and left on the road to die.

A former FBI agent named Don Clark made this public statement about Carnaby:
"I only knew him as Tony," said Don Clark, FOX 26's security and law enforcement analyst and former FBI agent. "I had no idea what his name may have been or was. The name that was in the newspaper, I had never seen that name before."

On February 16, 2007, Clark was a guest of Roland Carnaby's Houston chapter of the Association of Intelligence Officers. It was a formal dinner also attended by deputy director of the CIA James Pavitt. Roland Carnaby introduced Pavitt and Clark and gave a presentation that evening. Yet we're to believe that a highly-decorated and highly-respected former FBI agent has no recollection of Carnaby's name?

What matters is that a highly-decorated and highly-respected former FBI agent has been caught lying about knowing a man that was shot down like a dog in the street by enraged Houston police.

By the way...Roland Carnaby was buried on Monday, May 5, 2008. There was no reporting of the funeral by any national media.

(Final quote, it is a thinker...)
"...the great masses of the people in the very bottom of their hearts tend to be corrupted rather than consciously and purposely evil...therefore, in view of the primitive simplicity of their minds they more easily fall a victim to a big lie than to a little one..." - Adolph Hitler

Lets not let this get buried like they buried him, there should be more to the story. This is added to my already sizeable list of open cases. Soon I will have my own X files style office full of unsolved incidents.

posted on May, 8 2008 @ 10:13 PM

I'm still having trouble making sense of this story. I could be wrong, of course, but Mr. Carnaby's claims and behavior just don't seem to add up.

Even if we assume he was telling the truth about his occupation, identity and activities, it still doesn't make sense.

Also assuming he did work for some sort of intelligence agency, it's not clear that it was the CIA (from the source article: "At times he mentioned the Central Intelligence Agency or the Department of Homeland Security"), but for the sake of simplicity I'll use "CIA" to refer to his supposed employer, since that's apparently who he claimed to work for when stopped by police.

These aren't all the questions I have, but perhaps someone with more hard evidence than I have could help answer some of them:

1. Why would a supposedly covert CIA officer be so public about his job?

2. How many covert CIA officers tell everyone they know about their job, even while supposedly "on assignment"?

3. What evidence is there that he was actually participating in official covert activities?

4. Why was he hobnobbing around Houston and apparently making no secret of it except for his wife?

5. If this was a planned hit, why use the Houston Police and such a public high-speed chase to do it? Why not use a method that would draw less attention?

6. What evidence exists that the Houston Police would knowingly carry out an assassination for the CIA or anyone else?

7. Why would both the Houston Police and CIA claim the credentials are bogus if they aren't?

8. Why would Mr. Carnaby even try to use the alleged CIA credentials if the police wouldn't accept them and the CIA would deny he works for them?

9. Why would the CIA give him bogus credentials in the first place if they wouldn't work? If they didn't give them to him, why would he make or obtain his own false credentials?

10. Why would Mr. Carnaby stop and identify himself to the Houston Police as a supposedly legitimate CIA officer, then lead them on a high-speed car chase?

11. Why would Mr. Carnaby need a concealed weapons permit if he was an active federal officer? He wouldn't need one if he had legitimate ID, so does that mean he knew his ID was bogus?

12. If the Houston Police were hired to assassinate Mr. Carnaby by the CIA, why not accept his credentials, then take him quietly into custody and kill him away from the public eye?

13. If Mr. Carnaby did in fact work for the CIA, who paid him? Any pay stubs? Tax returns, benefits (i.e. medical, dental, retirement, etc.) to verify his employer?

14. If it wasn't the CIA directly, but one or more front companies, what are their names and contact information? The money had to come from somewhere.

15. What benefit would there be for the CIA or anyone else to assassinate Mr. Carnaby?

16. What benefit would there be for the CIA or anyone else to assassinate Mr. Carnaby in such a spectacular and public fashion?

17. Why would the CIA publicly deny he ever worked for them if there's supposedly so much evidence that he did?

18. If this was a real CIA operation, why so much press and a public statement?

And that's just the tip of the iceberg. There are plenty of other valid questions, particularly surrounding the circumstances of his death, such as how three weapons in his vehicle supposedly went undiscovered prior to the impound lot.

However, before anything else can add up, Mr. Carnaby's true identity and employment need to be factually determined.

Maybe I missed something, but that question still seems to be very much unanswered at this point.

Over Cover

For a guy who was supposedly killed while "on assignment", there's a distinct absence of logic underlying his story and behavior if he was who he claimed to be. That in turn seems to have inspired a lot of speculation which is utterly unsupported by any credible evidence.

I recognize and appreciate that so many ATSers are willing to give Mr. Carnaby the benefit of the doubt and -- more importantly -- question the official story. I urge anyone who is willing and feels strongly enough about the case to dig up whatever they possibly can and hopefully uncover more facts.

Was Roland Carnaby a CIA officer or some other kind of government agent (DHS, perhaps)?

I don't know. Maybe, maybe not.

For now, at least, I agree with his friend Fred Platt: "This doesn't smell right." I have a hard time believing an active covert officer would be so overt about his job, or that his employment would be so hard to verify if it were actually true and all the evidence proffered so far was legitimate.

I would imagine if anyone holds the key to unraveling this mystery, it's his wife, and I hope she is able to do so in the face of such a horrifying tragedy in her life. But the truth about Roland Carnaby will not come to light as long as fantasy is allowed to take the place of facts.

Of course all ATSers are free to believe what they want, but without more hard evidence to go on, I recommend keeping an open mind about this case.

posted on May, 15 2008 @ 10:19 AM
Has there been eny updates on this case?

I am interested in results here (even though i never think we'll find the whole truth)

I'd really hate for this to go un noticed

posted on May, 15 2008 @ 11:30 AM
Update from Hoston Chronicle 5/9

Carnaby, bleeding from a gunshot wound to the lower back, lay handcuffed on the pavement for 12 minutes after the shooting. He was later pronounced dead at Ben Taub General Hospital.

"We recognize that we can do a better job in trying to ensure first aid is administered swiftly," Dirden said.


He added that the officers involved were traumatized and "may not have been in a situation emotionally" to administer aid to Carnaby immediately.

Carnaby's wife, Susan, has filed a federal lawsuit against the city, accusing the officers of violating her husband's civil rights.

Her attorney, Randall Kallinen, said he found Dirden's comments about the emotional state of the officers in the aftermath of the shooting "to be an extremely odd statement."

"Nobody shot at them," he said. "That's not even credible."

This is part or all of the explanation for the search not yielding weapons initially.

After the shooting, officers found three weapons in Carnaby's SUV, including two pistols and a pistol-grip shotgun. Police said Friday that investigators have determined Carnaby bought both pistols at a local sporting goods store. They have not determined where he obtained the shotgun, they said.

So this indicates the HPD has linked 2 of the weapons that they didn't find at the scene but in a later search to him. Wonder if the jury (if there is one) will get to see the signed registration forms for the weapons.

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