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Intelligence agent shot by police in broad daylight after high-speed chase

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posted on May, 1 2008 @ 04:04 AM
Double Entendre

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I don't think that real spooks go around dropping hints about their secret operations.

The good ones don't, at least.

Something else seems odd about this story and jumped out at me near the end. First we are told he has a wife:

From the source article:

Susan Carnaby said her husband has worked for the agency for 30 years.

And apparently they've been married for quite some time, based on her supporting statements. Then we're told that as of this past weekend he was engaged to be married:

Platt said he had dined with Carnaby both Saturday and Sunday and nothing seemed out of the ordinary. Carnaby was engaged to be married, he said, and led a happy life.

Emphasis mine. So why would a married man be engaged to be married?

I don't know this guy from Adam, and granted the spook business is by nature a spooky business, but the fact that he was so overt about his supposedly "covert" profession, his fatally suspicious behavior toward the police and the implication that he may have been two-timing (or worse) on his wife all suggest he may have spent his time indulging in a less honorable occupation than national service.

[edit on 5/1/2008 by Majic]

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 04:48 AM
My first instincts tell me that the explaination for finding the guns on a secondary search, the explaination for a pic of the cop and Carnaby, yet the cop knows nothing of it, the explaination of the car chase, would be that the cops were trying to chase him down to shoot him, and Carnaby knew it. He was trying to get away from the cop that claims he didn't know Carnaby.

[edit on 1-5-2008 by space cadet]

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 04:55 AM
reply to post by deltaboy

I cannot imagine that this man was shot by police officers and they did not search his car at the scene. That is unimaginable. The scene would be fully investigated, bullet holes marked, during this process the guns, at the very least the gun in the back floorboard, would have been found. No way did they conduct an investigation of this shooting and not find the guns until after impounding the vehicle. These are cops, they would need to do as clear and precise an investigation as possible to avoid charges of shooting an innocent man.

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 05:10 AM

he reached under the seat of his Jeep sport utility vehicle after the chase had ended and he had gotten out of his car.

Another case in point: if they saw him reach under his seat, and shot because they feared he had a gun, then searched for said gun and found a phone instead, surely they would have searched and found the 3 guns at that time. Something definately stinks.

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 05:59 AM
I agree, the fact the guns weren't the deciding factor for the shooting seems a bit odd.

It will all come down to who needs to spin the story the most.


-Cops have to protect a bad shoot

-CIA has to distance themselves whether he worked for them or was running from them


We all know how it will read next week (if its still news).

I may watch too much TV, but isn't it common place for police to do a DMV search of the vehicle they are chasing, especially for this long?

Wouldn't the search yield who he was and any other pertinent information regarding who they were dealing with?

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 08:39 AM
In the Houston Chronicle this morning they had a picture of all his plaques from intel agencies and associations, a picture of Carnaby with James Baker, and also a copy of George Tenet's book (sorry, forgot the title) with a hand-written message from Tenet to Carnaby in which Tenet refers to Carnaby as "007" and calls him a "brother".

The problem now is that Carnaby can't defend himself, so the cops can say and do anything they want. CIA was clearly disavowing him as a matter of policy.


[edit on 1-5-2008 by Dr Love]

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 09:14 AM
reply to post by space cadet

This is exactly what jumped out at me in this story. If they shot him because he was reaching under his seat, then you'd think that would be the first place they'd search for weapons, yet they didn't find any the first time around?

Hinky as hell.

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 09:29 AM
As an ex-officer, I can assure you that the car should have been searched thoroughly at the scene.

This all seems fishy

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 09:39 AM
reply to post by Dr Love

seems this guy made quite high up the ladder then doesn't it. Maybe his "wife" or "wives" are part of the game/cover and that's why we're getting so many conflicting stories???

Hope that is there is someone out there who he trusted and can get his real story out.. but I don't think that's going to happen. If I were in the position of being the "trusted" one, I'd be scared for my life too, crap even if I was an acquaintance of the guy, I'd be paranoid and probably rightfully so too.

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 09:46 AM
reply to post by worldwatcher

Also to add, Carnaby was talking to somebody on the phone while fleeing from the cops. Reportedly, that person told Carnaby to stop the chase and do what the police say, Carnaby said "I cant!". He also reportedly showed the police a CIA badge of some sort during the initial stop.


posted on May, 1 2008 @ 09:54 AM
Maybe he just lost it. With everything that is hitting us these day's....perhaps some bad investments,problems at home or with a relationship.Everyday we hear about another perfectly normal person with no previous history of violence or criminal record doing very violent if not evil things.Very irrational things these people would not normally do.Look at some of the random shootings that seem to happen lately.Just because he may have been involved with intelligence community does not make him any less human.

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 10:14 AM
Very sad that this guy died. My heart goes out to his family and friends. I am sure that they are going through a rough time with a roller coaster of emotions.

The fact that the CIA will disown this guy is part of the!

The analytical side of me wants to look into this and gives me another reason upon why I love ATS. Great find...S and F.

Oh...does this not remind you of activity preceding November 22, 1963?

[edit on 1-5-2008 by whiteraven]

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 10:54 AM

Officers found three weapons inside the Jeep after it was impounded. One pistol was under the passenger-side floor mat while a second was between the seats. A pistol-grip shotgun was on the floor board of the back seat.

Great job with the initial search the vehicle. Having been a Houstonian for many years, the HPD does not have the greatest of reputations and has not for 30 years or more.

I can understand the problem presented with not following the officers directions but what is wrong with backing off and working on the situation a bit longer. I wonder why no one wants to be stopped by the police. It's too dangerous.

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 10:58 AM
reply to post by rcwj75

all agents are on a need to know basis. (example) an analyist may be asked to pick up some requisition documents, from a ambassador's assistant relating to some debugging equipment needed for his embassy office, he is told that state handed it off to the company. the analyist picks up the docs and brings it back to his boss, who forwards it up the chain. at some point, the docs are then handed to a seperate division and the real info is decoded off of the req. docs, which may include some highly sensitive intel

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 11:02 AM
If this was a 007 type agent I can assure you this guy covered his tracks by leaving behind information hidden somewhere. Are the Houston Police Force looking as well as the CIA for information 007 left behind and if so how damaging is the info he left behind? If the information were to get in the wrong hands how much damage would be done and whose head or heads would be on the chopping block? Like has been stated we will probably never know the truth of who this guy really was deny deny deny. Rik Riley

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 11:09 AM
reply to post by rikriley

this will go away quitely. evidence is in, stories are straight, followup will dead end

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 11:11 AM

Originally posted by roadgravel
I wonder why no one wants to be stopped by the police. It's too dangerous.

Is it more dangerous than leading police on a hour long, high speed chase and when stopped refuse to follow police instructions?

So far, there is no plausible explanation for the man's behavior.

Even those who claim that his guns were "drop guns" are forgetting that the police indicated that as far as they could tell they were legally owned firearms.

The police knew from the time of the initial stop that he had a concealed carry license and they never denied that what he pulled from under his seat was a cell phone.

I think the police acted pretty well, according to the article. They might have waited for the victim to reveal a weapon before they fired, but after all they had been through with the chase and the belligerent, non-compliant behavior, it was a reasonable expectation that he was reaching for a weapon.

Normal, law-abiding motorists know how to handle a traffic stop. Most know to have their license and registration handy when the police officer approaches the car. They know that even if the cop is wrong, every citizen has a right to due process. They know that if the police say to get out of the car and put their hands where they can be seen, that that does not include reaching under the seat of the car.

I think an investigation will provide a lot of information and some explanations, but they are not at this time available to he public.

In the meantime, we can only offer condolences to his family and his friends. It's a real tragedy and a senseless one at that.

[edit on 2008/5/1 by GradyPhilpott]

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 11:17 AM
I am clarifying my last post concerning the 'great job in the initial search'. My thoughts want to go to the possibility that the weapons were planted.

I suppose if they are traced back to the victim them all we can conclude is that the HPD does a P poor job checking a vehicle. I feel that if this is the quality of a search regularly performed by officers then other officers are routinely placed in danger. These were not rookies cops. I think the whole episode was handled poorly or worse.

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 11:29 AM
Here'a an interesting article that offers some insight by a former CIA agent.

David Adler for sure worked for the CIA. He said the biggest question is the hardest to answer.

“It is almost impossible to find out if somebody claims to be an intelligence officer, if they really were unfortunately,” said Adler.

He said there are many misconceptions about the CIA and that an officer’s goal is to be low-key.

“If you walk into a casino, and everyone knows your name is James Bond, you’re not doing your job,” he said.

When Adler looked at Carnaby’s things, he noticed details that might have slipped by a layperson.

“This word ‘completion’ is spelled wrong,” Adler said, pointing to one of the mementos and noting something off about another. ”There is no ‘Iraq Division’ of the CIA.”

[edit on 2008/5/1 by GradyPhilpott]

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 11:32 AM
I want to know who the person was Carnaby was on his way to meet for lunch and what was on that cellphone? He obviously thought he had to get to this person or he was finished. It's also possible that the person he was to meet for lunch was part of a double-cross to get Carnaby to come out from hiding.

Pure speculation here, whatever was on that phone was on it's way into somebody else's hands and it could not be allowed to happen. The cops are asked to intercede and put out an APB on Carnaby's car. Subject is to be considered armed and dangerous and approach with extreme caution. Carnaby knew who was after what he had on his cellphone and knew he was pretty much a dead man regardless.


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