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Intelligence agent shot by police in broad daylight after high-speed chase

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posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 09:41 AM

Intelligence agent shot by police in broad daylight after high-speed chase

Mystery continues to envelop a man shot and killed by Houston police Tuesday morning after a high-speed chase that ended near the Galleria.

The victim was identified by friends as Roland Vincent Carnaby, 52, of Houston. But who he really was — or more precisely, what he was — is something police are still trying to piece together.

Carnaby held himself out as a federal intelligence agent but was sometimes cagey about his precise job and employer. At times he mentioned the Central Intelligence Agency or the Department of Homeland Security. He was the president of the local chapter of the Association for Intelligence Officers, a legitimate national organization whose board contains luminaries such as former President George H.W. Bush. Friends said they have seen him in the company socially of local law enforcement officials and high-level CIA bureaucrats.
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 09:41 AM
This story smells real fishy to me! This very well may have been a hit, influential people using the cops to do the deed. Did Carnaby have damning information on somebody??? Did he have information so damning that it cost him his life, maybe something like say.....information on Ken Lay???

The HPD story sounds all over the map. First they found no guns in Carnaby's car, then they found three. The CIA says he didn't work for them, no surprise there, but on the news this morning they showed a picture of Carnaby at CIA headquarters. The guy had the connections. Now that he's dead, the character assassination will begin.

I think Carnaby was running for his life!
(visit the link for the full news article)

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 09:45 AM
Anything is possible. I doubt the truth will ever be fully known. Judging by the connections he had, and by his belonging to the AIO, then there's more to it than just a speeder running from the cops.

Good find.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 03:53 PM
I might also speculate that Carnaby was racing towards a busy part of town in order to safeguard himself. Anyone who's been to Houston knows that the Galleria area at lunchtime is full of traffic since it's the second-most busy business district (outside of downtown) in the city.

Why does a man with his kind of connections need to worry about a traffic stop?


posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 04:32 PM
If this guy was for real, you can bet he had an "insurance policy" in case of "acedental" death.
Some records in a post box or bank safety deposit box that someone besides him knew about, and knows what to do with.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 04:45 PM
this story is straight out of a movie. He got set up somehow, had to run, and got taken out. There is no way someone who is who he is supposed to be would be involved in just a high speed car chase for kicks before getting locked up for whatever crime they committed. This is definitely something more sinister and he had to have felt that cops couldn't be trusted. Keep us updated, I love the intrigue.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 04:59 PM
reply to post by Dr Love

Officers found three weapons inside the Jeep after it was impounded. One pistol was under the passenger-side floor mat while a second was between the seats. A pistol-grip shotgun was on the floor board of the back seat.

``We believe they are all legal,'' Jett said. ``We have no reason to believe he didn't own them.''

Read first before you claim they didn't know he had weapons by lying. They never claimed they didn't find any.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 05:07 PM
Fox news picked this story up. Good job being early on all these great stories guys. I think the past couple days have seen some great work done by ATS members investigating various happenings, like the "smiley face killer".

heres the fox link-

a couple others;

This is fishy as hell, what did he know? Who was he running from? Does it have to do with a nuclear attack (Houston has been theorized as a prime target for a false flag nuclear operation. Cool.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 05:50 PM
It doesn't sound right to me either. Since when do cops not do a search of the vehicle and lay everything out to see? They find weapons afterward yeah right!, and I got some ocean side property here in Tennessee for sell too.

Of course by tomorrow or the next few days they will come up with a story that will prove their case and make this guy look like a monster.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 07:14 PM
Perhaps he was getting ready to blow the whistle on someone...One thing's for sure, the spooks won't be able to do their status quo "suicide" routine on this one, unless they claim he was trying to do suicide-by-cop.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by DimensionalDetective]

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 07:24 PM
Great post

I agree with the poster above about some interesting stuff popping up. That Smiley Face thing was interesting too.

This sounds like one of those stories that will attract enough interest to make somebody sweat. Those Officers could well be telling the truth. Why he would do that seems plenty odd?

This one just does not smell right at all. If he was not CIA, I'll bet they know who he is.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 08:30 PM
Well IMO he was definitly working for or has worked for someone in the alphabet agency group. Here is the link to the website where he was president of the Houston chapter:

If I had to guess...he was an intel analyst or desk jockey...was a brilliant guy but NOT an operative. When you read the stuff from the media they, along with many other assumptions from people, assume he was an Jason Bourne or James Bond. We have made ALL people who work for the alphabet agencies out to be these "warriors" when in fact no more then 3% of them are actual CORE collectors. Which are the Bond/Bourne types. 97% of them are nothing more then readers, writers, analysts and IT nerds who are top notch at their skill.

IF he was an operator/operative a simple traffic stop would not have been an issue. My final thought is that this man got caught up in a world he WANTED to be a part of....he WANTED to be an operative...he wanted to be a "black ops" agent but wasn' he instead tried (on his own) living THAT life instead of the 9 to 5 intel desk job...and because he DIDN'T have the training or skill got himself killed...

My time in the military allowed me to meet some spooks...these guys are not the type to be shot by a beat cop in the city. These are not the type to react and do the things this man did....they are not the BS Valarie Plames of the world...these guys are individuals who WILL do anything it IF this had been a true spook..NOT an intel analyst...we MAY be talking about a dead intel agent..but you can bet your butt we would also be discussing a few dead cops/people too....IMO of course

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 09:15 PM
Reminds me of that whole Mike Vreeland thing. And I don't buy into that Ryerson radio website slamming him. More than one Bourne running around out there...

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 09:56 PM
Why would some one with an apparently extensive background in intelligence and security procedures, not to mention long association with law enforcement officials, and hence, law enforcement procedures (cops talk shop; you listen, you learn), do something so stupid?

...he reached under the seat of his Jeep sport utility vehicle after the chase had ended and he had gotten out of his car.

Carnaby had just just fled a traffic stop, led the HPD on a 1 hour long , 120 MPH chase, refused to acknowledge police commands when he did finally stop, and, according to the article, only exited the vehicle, to officers with guns drawn!, after the police broke one of the windows on the Jeep.

He had to know how the cops would react to that kind of action.

But he wasn't reaching for one of the Three guns he kept in the car (which would have assured him of "Suicide By Cop", if that was his intent); he apparently was reaching for his Personal Assistant Cell Phone!

WTF was So Important about his Cell Phone???

Who was he going to call? Knowing, I'm certain, that he was risking his life by trying to make a call in his predicament?

Or, since this was a PDA-cellphone, maybe he was trying to DELETE something from the cellphone's memory?

Something so important, that even though it was probaly encrypted, he couldn't risk it being discovered; to the extent that it was worth risking (and losing) his life.

And just who was this guy?

He was known in the upper-echelons of the intel community, but no one is certain of what agency he worked for; none of them acknowledge him as an employee...Officially. Even the CIA, which characteristically never confirms or denies anyone as an employee, states, catagorically that Carneby was not one of theirs.

Yet his (ex-?)wife(widow) claims Carneby had "worked for the Agency for 30 years"

Could Carneby have been some sort of free-lancer, a "contract-agent" or "cut-out" as I believe they are called? Some one the various Alphabet Agencies hire on an "as needed" basis, when they need something done "off the books"?

That might explain the guns in his Jeep; or more precisely, the types of guns he carried, and where he carried them (one pistol was under the passenger-side floor mat, one was between the seats, and a pistol-grip shotgun on the floor board of the back seat):

Close-quarters weapons in position for easy access by presumptive "passengers" (I would presume that if all three weapons were for his personal use, they would have all been stored conveniently to hand, or, if for delivery to a "third party", they would have been stored together).

It might also explain another detail glossed over in the Houston Chronicle article:

Car dealer Alan Helfman met Carneby more than a decade ago..."He bought eight or nine cars from me over the years." Helfman said

That's about one car every year or two (if he bought one each for he and his wife). I wonder if Mrs. Carneby could confirm the frequency of her husband's car-habit. Or maybe Mr. Carneby was supplying vehicles to other "clients" or for other operations?

Maybe some one could do a TX DMV title search on just how many cars Carneby has registered? To various PO box addresses!

Also according the Helfman, Carneby was proficient with a knife and was "always showing me his knife tricks" Helfman said.

Aren't Special Forces commandos trained to be handy with knives, as a "silent kill" option?

Fred Platt, the Vice-president of the local chapter of the Association of Intelligence Officers, of which Carneby was the President, claimed that Carneby was "here because of homeland security. The port and the airport."

Perhaps Mayday will bring something interesting to our shores, as some are warning. Not to Portland OR, but to Houston TX.

With our economy on a razor's edge, an attack on the oil industry centered in Houston would be all that is needed to send the US into a proxism of chaos and fury.

DHS has issued new warnings about "Small boats and watercraft" being employed by terrorists, Iran is still defiant, And the US seems to be having some trouble keeping track of its Nuclear warheads of late.


posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 09:58 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this guy was a poser. I can't prove that, but as described in the article, he fits the profile of a phony war veteran, who are always SEALs, Recon Marines, or "Green Berets."

You can look these guys up on the internet where you can read their MOs and see the similarities among all these types.

I don't think that real spooks go around dropping hints about their secret operations.

As for his credentials, well it appears that anyone can join the Association For Intelligence Officers (AFIO), also known as the Association of Former Intelligence Officers, in one capacity or another and, this comes as a surprise to me, I'm eligible to become a full member by virtue of a few jobs I've had in the past. No, I am not now nor have I ever been a spy or an intelligence officer.

So, here are other clues to his ruse. He's likes guns, has a civilian concealed-carry license, is into martial arts, tells everyone he's on secret missions, can't be specific about anything. In other words, he has no cover. He goes around showing people his membership card in the AFIO, an organization almost no one has heard of and which anyone can join and hold a full membership with minimal requirements.

When the police stopped him for a legitimate purpose, instead of getting the ordeal over as quickly as possible, he not only acted in an unprofessional manner, he did his best impression of a desperate criminal.

I might be wrong and I'm not trying to say that I know, but based on the information available, he fits the model of a fraud.

Membership in AFIO is open to all U.S. citizens who adhere to AFIO's principles, subscribe to AFIO's educational objectives, and wish to support - or participate in - AFIO activities and programs. There are two categories of membership: Members and Associate Members. Both Members and Associate Members may be officers or directors of the Association.

[edit on 2008/5/1 by GradyPhilpott]

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 10:27 PM

Originally posted by ppskylight
... Does it have to do with a nuclear attack (Houston has been theorized as a prime target for a false flag nuclear operation. Cool...

I certainly hope that doesn't mean destroying Houston is a cool thing to have happen.

It a shame he got killed but I am not surprised. The police have shot people with less cause than this. This does seem like an unusual reaction for someone in his supposed line of work.

I suspect it will be written down as a man with a mental condition, be it large or small.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 10:35 PM
nice post Bhahdihar.

Most likely it's going to end up with him either on meds or off his meds. Mental breakdown, cops acted properly, story gone.

posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 11:22 PM

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that this guy was a poser.

I am agreeing with you to a point. Being the HEAD of his chapter leads me to believe he was voted in by members who KNEW he was some sort of intel squirrel and did work for someone...but again...I'm thinking he was definitly just a desk jockey or analyst...nothing more....except in his HIS mind he was one bad MO FO who was living the life most only see on hollywood screens

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 02:02 AM

Originally posted by roadgravel

Originally posted by ppskylight
... Does it have to do with a nuclear attack (Houston has been theorized as a prime target for a false flag nuclear operation. Cool...

I certainly hope that doesn't mean destroying Houston is a cool thing to have happen.

No, I certainly do not wish to see that happen, I am more interested in the possibility he might have been a legitimate CIA agent that was killed over something he knew/discovered, considering Houston has been theorized to be a target for a false flag nuclear operation. I love the United States, and I only said "cool" because you dont hear about things like that every day.

posted on May, 1 2008 @ 02:31 AM

Baffled friends say Carnaby had been on the other side of police chases.

"He did say that at some point in time he had been in pursuits where he was the one doing the chasing if you will," said one of Carnaby's neighbors.

This neighbor who does not want his face shown tells us Carnaby shared some extraordinary tales of his work, in one case supposedly focusing on Osama bin Laden.

"Afghanistan, yes, he had a chance to get Osama bin Laden and at the last minute the Secretary of Defense called it off," the neighbor recalled.

"That was under Bill Clinton's, I'm not sure if it was his second or first term."

Meh this whole thing seems off...I think GradyPhilpott and rcwj75 are right, this guy seems like some bored intel officer pretending to be black ops. Who knows.

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