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Alternative 9/11 Theories

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posted on May, 3 2008 @ 02:23 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Nice subject change instead of answering the question.
You're an Expert...Please
Expert only in dodging questions



But i thought people that believed the official 9/11 story to be the truth were supposed to know everything,, you mean you do not really know what happened on 9/11 or anything else?

I nor anyone else on this thread has ever claimed to know "everything". This would be a deliberate misrepresentation on your part.


You are in expert in avoiding posting evidnece to support your fantasies or the official story when asked.

It's funny how when I posted pages of info, you had NOTHING to say about any of it yet you now claim I never posted it.


Since you have failed to show any evindece to show they exist then they must not. END OF DISCUSSION.


Since you have failed to read any of the evidence that has been posted by many people, you should leave this thread as you obviously have no interest in this thread other then to provoke people and pretend to be something you're not. For someone who likes to fantasize about being something they're not, I would suggest World of Warcraft or a similar game and not post on ATS.




posted on May, 3 2008 @ 03:03 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
I nor anyone else on this thread has ever claimed to know "everything". This would be a deliberate misrepresentation on your part.


Thats funny i have had pelnty of people like you who believe the official story state that they know evrything that happened that day becasue of the official story. Just ask Disclosed.

When are you going to stop this debate and show us some real facts and hard, physical evindece that supports the official story?



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
I nor anyone else on this thread has ever claimed to know "everything". This would be a deliberate misrepresentation on your part.


Thats funny i have had pelnty of people like you who believe the official story state that they know evrything that happened that day becasue of the official story. Just ask Disclosed.

Unfortunately because you refuse to read posts before posting yourself you must have missed the fact that I nor anyone else here as EVER said the know EVERYTHING.


When are you going to stop this debate and show us some real facts and hard, physical evindece that supports the official story?


Many have, you have refused to either read the info or you are not able to comprehend the info. which is not our fault.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 04:32 PM
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jfj you can use this link www.cooperativeresearch.org... to verify my claims as well as see many others. You should really take the time to read through that site. It will show you a lot of information that you don't currently know. I believe that site is what the 9/11 Commission Report should look like. I know you question my research skills, and that's fine, but since you made the statement that you believe the official time line is correct, I must question yours also. I detect a semi hostile tone in your replies to me. I'm not trying to argue with you, I am merely trying to have a discussion.

My statement about agents helping the terrorists is speculation. By you saying I need to name names, I can't because it's speculation. Yours is speculation also. The difference is there was supposedly a thorough multi-million dollar investigation to prove your story and mine is just my investigation. Yet we both have to use speculation.

You can't compare millions of illegals aliens living in the US to people who entered legally and are on terror watch lists.

I agree it's not illegal to take flight training, but people were notified about these individuals being very suspicious yet nothing was done.

Your statement about the military existing crossed the line into ridiculous and you and I both know that. So, try to keep the conversation in reality please. And try not to talk down to people you don't know. It shows you as being very defensive and conveys a tone that you are unable to have a sensible discussion.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Originally posted by RomanMaroni
I know you question my research skills, and that's fine, but since you made the statement that you believe the official time line is correct, I must question yours also.

And once again, you missed my late post about my statement, clarifying my position.


I detect a semi hostile tone in your replies to me. I'm not trying to argue with you, I am merely trying to have a discussion.

I have no hostility to you or anyone else here. I find most discussions at the very least interesting and sometimes thought provoking with just a few exceptions such as Ultima's posts.


My statement about agents helping the terrorists is speculation. By you saying I need to name names, I can't because it's speculation.

My point is that if the US or any other government had every name in the Al-Queda organization, it would be a lot easier to close it down.

So here's some info about Al-Queda

Al-Qaeda has its origins in the uprising against the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Thousands of volunteers from around the Middle East came to Afghanistan as mujahideen, warriors fighting to defend fellow Muslims. In the mid-1980s, Osama bin Laden became the prime financier for an organization that recruited Muslims from mosques around the world. These "Afghan Arab" mujahideen, which numbered in the thousands, were crucial in defeating Soviet forces.

After the Soviets withdrew from Afghanistan, bin Laden returned to his native Saudi Arabia. He founded an organization to help veterans of the Afghan war, many of whom went on to fight elsewhere (including Bosnia) and comprise the basis of al-Qaeda.

Bin Laden also studied with radical Islamic thinkers and may have already been organizing al-Qaeda when Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990. Bin Laden was outraged when the government allowed U.S. troops to be stationed in Saudi Arabia, the birthplace of Islam.

After his expulsion from Saudi Arabia, bin Laden established headquarters for al-Qaeda in Khartoum, Sudan. The first actions of al-Qaeda against American interests were attacks on U.S. servicemen in Somalia. A string of terrorist actions suspected to have been orchestrated by al-Qaeda followed, and in August 1996 bin Laden issued a "Declaration of War" against the U.S.

Al-Qaeda also worked to forge alliances with other radical groups. In February 1998, bin Laden announced an alliance of terrorist organizations—the "International Islamic Front for Jihad Against the Jews and Crusaders"—that included the Egyptian al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya, the Egyptian Islamic Jihad, the Harakat ul-Ansar, and other groups.

In 1994 Sudan expelled bin Laden, who moved his base of operations to Afghanistan. Bin Laden was the "guest" of the Taliban until the U.S. drove them from power in Nov. 2001. Al-Qaeda set up terrorist training camps.

Although al-Qaeda and Osama bin Laden have become virtually synonymous, bin Laden does not run the organization single-handedly. His top advisor is Dr. Ayman al-Zawahiri, al-Qaeda's theological leader and bin Laden's probable successor. He was likely instrumental in bin Laden's political evolution.

Al-Zawahiri is suspected of helping organize the 1997 massacre of 67 foreign tourists in the Egyptian town of Luxor and was indicted in connection with the bombing of U.S. embassies in Tanzania and Kenya. In 1998, he was one of five Islamic leaders to sign on to bin Laden's declaration calling for attacks against U.S. citizens.

Al-Qaeda's leadership oversees a loosely organized network of cells. It can recruit members from thousands of "Arab Afghan" veterans and radicals around the world. Its infrastructure is small, mobile, and decentralized—each cell operates independently with its members not knowing the identity of other cells. Local operatives rarely know anyone higher up in the organization's hierarchy.

Al-Qaeda differs significantly from more traditional terrorist organizations. It does not depend on the sponsorship of a political state, and, unlike the PLO or the IRA, it is not defined by a particular conflict. Instead, al-Qaeda operates as a franchise. It provides financial and logistical support, as well as name recognition, to terrorist groups operating in such diverse places as the Philippines, Algeria, Eritrea, Afghanistan, Chechnya, Tajikistan, Somalia, Yemen, and Kashmir. Furthermore, local groups may act in the name of al-Qaeda in order to bolster their own reputation—even if they are not receiving support from the organization.


Some of the info may be slightly outdated now but notice the structure? All the groups involved? etc...


I agree it's not illegal to take flight training, but people were notified about these individuals being very suspicious yet nothing was done.

The government was full of apathy. Big shock there !


Your statement about the military existing crossed the line into ridiculous and you and I both know that.

Actually it's a reasonable comparison to help describe the Al-Queda structure and answer your question.


So, try to keep the conversation in reality please.

I have always done so and will continue to do so.


And try not to talk down to people you don't know.

Try not to act so hostile and defensive.


It shows you as being very defensive and conveys a tone that you are unable to have a sensible discussion.

Let me be clear, I'm not defensive at all. It would imply that I care whether or not you believe me or not. I do not care, I'm just presenting opinions and facts. Take them or leave them, it doesn't matter to me.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by jfj123]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
Unfortunately because you refuse to read posts before posting yourself you must have missed the fact that I nor anyone else here as EVER said the know EVERYTHING.

Many have, you have refused to either read the info or you are not able to comprehend the info. which is not our fault.


1. Then you have never read many of the post from Disclosed, he thinks he knows everything that happend that day becasue he is brainwashed by the media to believe the official story, like most of you.

2. I will make you challenge (if you are man enough to accept)

If you can show me the following i will admit i am wrong, but if you cannot then you must admit the official story is just a theory.

Show me a FBI or NTSB crime scene report that matches the parts found to any of the 9/11 planes.


[edit on 3-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
Unfortunately because you refuse to read posts before posting yourself you must have missed the fact that I nor anyone else here as EVER said the know EVERYTHING.

Many have, you have refused to either read the info or you are not able to comprehend the info. which is not our fault.


1. Then you have never read many of the post from Disclosed, he thinks he knows everything that happend that day becasue he is brainwashed by the media to believe the official story, like most of you.

2. I will make you challenge (if you are man enough to accept)

If you can show me the following i will admit i am wrong, but if you cannot then you must admit the official story is just a theory.

Show me a FBI or NTSB crime scene report that matches the parts found to any of the 9/11 planes.


[edit on 3-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]


I already made you an offer you laughed at. You had your chance. The world doesn't revolve around you. You should have taken my offer instead of jerking me around.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
I already made you an offer you laughed at. You had your chance. The world doesn't revolve around you.


Ok, you just let everyone know you do not have any evidence to support your fantasies or the official story.



[edit on 3-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 05:55 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
I already made you an offer you laughed at. You had your chance. The world doesn't revolve around you.


Ok, you just let everyone know you do not have any evidence to support your fantasies or the official story.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]


Let's reflect upon your statement shall we?

I posted this in the past

I'll make you a deal. Answer the same 3 simple questions that I have posted 7 times previous, and I'll answer any question you like. Does that sound fair???? A flight expert such as yourself should be able to breeze through those 3 simple little questions.


your response was

No, my questions must be answered first, since i have been asking them for a lot longer time.


So based on your own logic, since you refused my offer as I refused yours, that means "you just let everyone know you do not have any evidence to support your fantasies or your stories."

Your own quotes tend to kill your arguments.

Sometimes it's like shooting fish in a barrel



[edit on 3-5-2008 by jfj123]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

...you must admit the official story is just a theory.


[edit on 3-5-2008 by ULTIMA1]


Umm...isn't this a given? Just like all of yours and other peoples' (whichever side they may be on) ideas of what happened that day, they're all just theories.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
your response was

No, my questions must be answered first, since i have been asking them for a lot longer time.


It just shows that you have been refusing to post evidence when asked for a long time.

Thanks again for showing everyone its been a long time that you have not posted evidence when asked



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:12 PM
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Originally posted by HLR53K
Umm...isn't this a given?


No, a lot of people believe the official story to be fact even though they cannot post evindece to support it.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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[edit on 3-5-2008 by jfj123]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:20 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

No, a lot of people believe the official story to be fact even though they cannot post evindece to support it.



That's your belief. It's still a given that all anyone has posted are theories.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:21 PM
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Ultima,
Obviously you either didn't read or understand what I posted before so I'll repost it so you can review your mistake again. Hopefully this helps with your comprehension this time. Good luck.


by ULTIMA1
I will make you challenge (if you are man enough to accept)

If you can show me the following i will admit i am wrong, but if you cannot then you must admit the official story is just a theory.





Originally posted by jfj123
I already made you an offer you laughed at. You had your chance. The world doesn't revolve around you.




by ULTIMA1
Ok, you just let everyone know you do not have any evidence to support your fantasies or the official story.




Let's reflect upon your statement shall we?

I posted this in the past

I'll make you a deal. Answer the same 3 simple questions that I have posted 7 times previous, and I'll answer any question you like. Does that sound fair???? A flight expert such as yourself should be able to breeze through those 3 simple little questions.


your response was

No, my questions must be answered first, since i have been asking them for a lot longer time.


So based on your own logic, since you refused my offer as I refused yours, that means "you just let everyone know you do not have any evidence to support your fantasies or your stories."

Your own quotes tend to kill your arguments.

Sometimes it's like shooting fish in a barrel



[edit on 3-5-2008 by jfj123]

[edit on 3-5-2008 by jfj123]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by HLR53K
That's your belief. It's still a given that all anyone has posted are theories.


Yes you and i know that but several people believe the stuff they post from the official story is actually real.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:29 PM
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Originally posted by jfj123
So based on your own logic, since you refused my offer as I refused yours, that means "you just let everyone know you do not have any evidence to support your fantasies or your stories."


So you just showed everyone that you refused to post evidnece when i asked FIRST.

So i refused to answer your questions untill mine were answered that i have been asking.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:35 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Yes you and i know that but several people believe the stuff they post from the official story is actually real.



*Shrugs*

I'm sure they can say the same about your posts (and probably have). We're all working off of second-hand information (at the least).

Unless we can physically recreate every separate event that happened to really prove one theory or another, we'll be left with speculation.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:39 PM
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reply to post by HLR53K
 


Watch this video, share what you see.
Then ask Ultima what he sees and you will notice something.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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Originally posted by ULTIMA1

Originally posted by jfj123
So based on your own logic, since you refused my offer as I refused yours, that means "you just let everyone know you do not have any evidence to support your fantasies or your stories."


So you just showed everyone that you refused to post evidnece when i asked FIRST.

So i refused to answer your questions untill mine were answered that i have been asking.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND ?


wow you just don't get it


Do you really have that much of a problem with the english language or are you trolling for fun?

Just to give you a bit of advice, you're making yourself look absurd and if you really are trying to have a legit discussion, you are RAPIDLY destroying what is left of your credibility.




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