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What are the Masonic Secrets?

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posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by luciferhorus
 


The point I seem to be failing to make is that racism is no more a basic tenet of Masonry than pedophilia is official Catholic doctrine.

There are pleny of black Masons. Are there racist Masons? I'm sure there are. Just like there are pedophile priests and crooked cops. But the Masonic teaching doesn't support racism any more than Catholicism officially endorses pedophilia or law enforcement agencies encourage crooked cops.

If it's happening, it's "rogue" and not indicicative of the principles of these organizations.




posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 10:20 AM
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Originally posted by luciferhorus
You have to bear in mind a few points.

1: The person whom I was replying to, uses a quotation by Albert Pike in his signature.


"Scuse me. What part of

“What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.”-Albert Pike "

do you find troubling and racist in tone or subtext?

Absent anything coherent, your excuse is a stretch of logic at best, a troll at worst.


Originally posted by luciferhorus
Pike may have lived in the 19th century, but there are still those who revere him today.


And are we saying that all who "rever" him are Masons? Or, for that matter, that all Masons of the U.S. Southern District Scottish Rite do? Or a simple majority? A significant minority? An insignificant minority? A few knuckleheads who refuse to recognise that more binds men than separates them?


Originally posted by luciferhorus
There are numerous individuals of the 19th century whom I personally rever such as the Anarchsits Kropotkin and Bakunin, but if I was to say that I revered a well known racist, that would say a lot about me.


Would you be so kind as to link to where Bushidomason either says or clearly implies that he reveres Pike?




posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 10:30 AM
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Couple of things here:


Originally posted by luciferhorus

2: Pike's 'Morals and Dogma' is a standard Masonic Work which Masons of certain degrees have to purchase.


Pike's "Morals and Dogma" is no longer even in print by the Supreme Council. It is still "recommended reading" for Scottish Rite Masons in the Southern Jurisdiction, but it is not required, and no longer distributed.

Secondly, Pike eventually changed many of his positions on the race issue. Morals and Dogma is an anti-racist book.



There are numerous individuals of the 19th century whom I personally rever such as the Anarchsits Kropotkin and Bakunin, but if I was to say that I revered a well known racist, that would say a lot about me.


Pike was wrong on the race question in the quote you posted, as well as several others. He was right about a whole lot of other things.

Incidentally, Kropotkin and Bakunin were Freemasons.



Perhaps before leaping to his defence you might try to envision the many photographs from American history of African Americans being tortured and lynched at the hands of smiling Americans who held the racist beliefs as Pike did.


This an attempt to prove guilt by association, which falls way short. It was Pike who introduced in the Confederate Congress the bill to abolish slavery, and after his speech on the subject, caused him to be booed off the floor. Pike's full philosophy on the issue can be read in his "Letters To The Northern States", where he takes a semi-socialist position. Here, Pike admits the immorality of slavery, but charges the northern states with hypocrisy because they endorsed the industrial capitalism of the time, which Pike interpreted as a method of enslaving workers.


Today in the square mile of the City of London (the financial districts) there are more Masonic Lodges (several hundred of them in fact) than in any other square mile on earth; and that is all about Usury (loan sharking), the export of Capital and the economic enslavement of humanity; I can assure you it is a 'white boys' club with a few black members at their 'front office.'


Hogwash. Masonic organizations don't issue loans, and as non-profit organizations, do not accumulate capital. In fact many Socialists throughout history have been active and dedicated Freemasons, including the abovementioned ones, as well W.E.B. DuBois, Salvadore Allende, and myself.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by yeahright
reply to post by luciferhorus
 


The point I seem to be failing to make is that racism is no more a basic tenet of Masonry than pedophilia is official Catholic doctrine.



It was Ratzinger who ordered the cover up of the paedophila scandal, and can't get any more official than that.

You want need to consider the difference between stated claims and behaviour. Throughout the history of Catholicism, their inquisitions and crusades, behind all this was the belief that the words and edicts of Jesus give all that you have to the poor etc., were those of God; that is still the case today.

Great evil often hides behind great goodness.

One of the foremost Masonic institutions in Britain, Lloyds of London, who financed the Christian slave trade, may not have had 'racism' as a Masonic tenet.

If a murderer states 'I do not believe in murder' and yet it is clear he is a murderer, his stated beliefs are of little concern



"I took my obligations to white men, not to negroes. When I have to accept negroes as brothers or leave Masonry, I shall leave it."
- Albert Pike (13th September, 1875), quoted in "A Critical Examination of Objections to the Legitimacy of the Masonry Existing Among the Negroes of America" by William H. Upton, 1902, p.214-15

If placed quotes by Elijah Mohammad in my signature, people might would assume that I was a racist who despised white people; similarly with Pike.


LL

Lux



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 11:17 AM
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Originally posted by luciferhorus

Originally posted by yeahright
reply to post by luciferhorus
 


The point I seem to be failing to make is that racism is no more a basic tenet of Masonry than pedophilia is official Catholic doctrine.



It was Ratzinger who ordered the cover up of the paedophila scandal, and can't get any more official than that.


Would you be so kind as to point out in the Catholic liturgy where paedophilia is a tenet? Likewise racism in Masonry? Absent that, the actions of one or a few are in no way emblematic of the many or the whole.

Period!



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 12:52 PM
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Originally posted by Fitzgibbon

The point I seem to be failing to make is that racism is no more a basic tenet of Masonry than pedophilia is official Catholic doctrine.

Would you be so kind as to point out in the Catholic liturgy where paedophilia is a tenet? Likewise racism in Masonry? Absent that, the actions of one or a few are in no way emblematic of the many or the whole.

Period!


Peadophia is widespread in the Catholic church and was 'officially' covered up. Was it is tenet of Jesus? No. To restate, great evil often hides behind great goodness. What does the anti-Communist, paedophile protecting Pope Ratzinger have to do with the anti-Capitalist Jesus? He seems to represent Jesus' anti-thesis.

Similarly with Masonry which is essentially a Kabbalist cult; a form of knowledge handed down from the Egyptians (who were Africans) and the Israelites, (who were African and Semitic slaves); what does that have to do with Pike's racism?

Similarly there is nothing in the Kabbalistic teachings which justify usury, state terrorism, narco-terrorism, imperialism, World Capitalist revolution, the dropping of depleted uranium on the Iraqis and Afghans, but many Masonic cultists 'are' Anglo-American state terrorist collaborators anyway.

LL

Lux



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:05 PM
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reply to post by luciferhorus
 


"Would you be so kind as to point out in the Catholic liturgy where paedophilia is a tenet? Likewise racism in Masonry? Absent that, the actions of one or a few are in no way emblematic of the many or the whole."

And luciferhorus? Please make sure you're quoting the right person. Your first quote was yeahright, not me.

BTW, you still haven't addressed the first question I asked, to whit:

What part of:

“What we have done for ourselves alone dies with us; what we have done for others and the world remains and is immortal.”-Albert Pike "

do you find troubling and racist in tone or subtext?

Absent anything coherent, your excuse is a stretch of logic at best, a troll at worst.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by luciferhorus


One of the foremost Masonic institutions in Britain, Lloyds of London, who financed the Christian slave trade, may not have had 'racism' as a Masonic tenet.


I can't believe nobody responded to this yet, but here goes:

You actually think Lloyd's of London is a Masonic institution? Or are you just having fun with everybody?




posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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It's unfortunate that every one here is dodging the facts that masonry is based on the Kabalah, and the Kabalah is based on the tulmud, and the Talmud is basic luciferian principle. Masonry is a small branch of the mystery schools, IE babalonian religion. This is why the Catholic church and Masonry share a close connection and allot of sybolism. The Law of confusion and free will at work once again. So in basic generalities, the masonic secret is the influence and thinking based on luciferian principles as demostrated by the Dogma's and by the symbolism. I am going to qoute Pike for every one: All truly dogmatic religions have issued away from the Kabbalah and returned to it. And who birthed the Kabbalah? The Mystery Babylon. What is her basic belief?A multiplicity of gods, or panthieism, their roots being Luciferianism.

I am not here to argue and I do not need to prove any knowlage other than what I have divulged here, I will only state this, I am an initiate, I have a long family history in the brotherhood, and probably know more than was intended for me to have been exposed to.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:20 PM
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The racism isnt black on white and so forth it has to do with the goyum, and the jew's or the gentile's. Meaning all races are second to the jewish people. Period thats it. we being the non jewish twelve tribe descendants are all gentiles and there for of the same value if not less than that of catle.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:49 PM
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Originally posted by BeyondBelow
This is why the Catholic church and Masonry share a close connection and allot of sybolism.

I have a long family history in the brotherhood, and probably know more
than was intended for me to have been exposed to.


are you saying masonry and the Cath. church are interlinked. and what
about the night templars, are freemasons, the Cath. church modern Nights



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by BeyondBelow
It's unfortunate that every one here is dodging the facts that masonry is based on the Kabalah, and the Kabalah is based on the tulmud, and the Talmud is basic luciferian principle.


I don't recall seeing anyone "dodge" the issue. I have been a serious student of the Qbalah for a long time.

Which, by the way, is not based on the Talmud.


Masonry is a small branch of the mystery schools, IE babalonian religion.


Masonry can be seen as a "mystery school", by equating "mystery school" with "babalonian (sic) religion" is pretty big stretch.


This is why the Catholic church and Masonry share a close connection and allot of sybolism.


The only connection between the Catholic Church and Freemasonry is the ongoing number of papal bulls that condemn Freemasonry, and excommunicate those Catholics involved in it.

Freemasonry and the Catholic Church do not share common symbolism.


I am going to qoute Pike for every one: All truly dogmatic religions have issued away from the Kabbalah and returned to it.


Pike is correct.


And who birthed the Kabbalah? The Mystery Babylon. What is her basic belief?A multiplicity of gods, or panthieism, their roots being Luciferianism.


I would suggest that you do an academic study on the history of the Mysteries. At present, you seem to have gotten your information from Jack Chick and Ed Decker.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:55 PM
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That's exactly what I was saying that they are interlinked as they are both threads or division of the same religion. I will not argue this point. This is what I know by admision, research and documeted proof. Besides those reasons, any one with half an ideadh as to the origins of these different groups would eventually be able to piece this together. Think of it like this, they are all denominations of the same core religion. And in your mentioning of the different groups in your question you are mearly refereing to the same organisation, but different divisions.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 01:59 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


I actually did not get my info from either of the sources you named, and as a stated student of the Kabbalah, you would have truly understood that it is mearly the mysticism, and numerology portion of the tulmud, and yes they are related. I will not argue an opionion not supported by fact, and before I hear prove it from you or any one else, my rebutle would be prove me wrong. and if symbolism isnt shared then please explain the architecture and sybolism displayed in vatican square. This would be one very small example of what I was trying to get across. I respect you interpitation, I will keep mine.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:03 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


Also by the way it was in an acedeminc study that I have come across this work, i would also like to share with you that a 32nd degree mason also published a work based on this same information send me a u2u and I will forward a pdf copy of the work. It was pulished through a masonic publishing house, and I may be remembering incorrectly, but I belive its the same one that is still puting out the richardson monitor of freemasonry.
For the record I do not wish to come off as combative or argumenative that would defeat the purpose of truly trying to share information.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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reply to post by BeyondBelow
 


did you left freemasonry because you discovered, hidden secrets that
majority of freemasons doesn't know, you are very courageous to share
your knowledge with us, and one more question, do you think freemasonry
is a Legion, of the Illuminati.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by BeyondBelow
reply to post by Masonic Light
 


Also by the way it was in an acedeminc study that I have come across this work, i would also like to share with you that a 32nd degree mason also published a work based on this same information send me a u2u and I will forward a pdf copy of the work. It was pulished through a masonic publishing house, and I may be remembering incorrectly, but I belive its the same one that is still puting out the richardson monitor of freemasonry.
For the record I do not wish to come off as combative or argumenative that would defeat the purpose of truly trying to share information.


Understood. I am also a 32° Mason, and a KCCH to boot. But it must be stressed that there are lots of 32° Masons, as well as 33°'s, who are completely ignorant of the Qabalah.

It's important to note that, while some Qabalistic concepts can be found in the Talmud, the Qabalah is older than the Talmud, and the Talmud is not primarily a Qabalistic work. The Qabalah is simply the result of the Alexandrian Jews having been exposed to Neo-Platonism in Egypt. The Qabalah was their attempt to reconcile traditional Judaism with Neo-Platonism and Greek metaphysics.

For a viewpoint of a strictly Jewish Qabalah, the foundational works are the Zohar and the Sepher Yetzirah. I've never heard a Jewish Qabalist even recommend the Talmud.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by Masonic Light]



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:31 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


I think the problem with the understanding you have at this point is the discrepancy of timeline, as far as I have been told and learned through investigation, the tulmud is actually older than the writing that comprise the kabbalah, this would be one way to figure it. The Babalonian pharasis were responsible for the books that comprise the tulmud, wich would pre date the kabbalah by at least a couple centuries. But who's to say with certanty right... j/k. I respect your tact in this discution I will be adding you to my friends list if you so permit. Stay Blessed brother, and fellow Traveler.

And to answer NWO secret agenda's question, no I did not leave, no I have not endangered my self as of yet, or so I belive. And yes most deffinately the masonic orders are a lower level organization serving the interests of the councils who intern are doing the bidding of the illuminated ones. its a compartmentelized hiegherarchy, I know my spelling is terrible, but hey I am typing kind of fast.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


Just for my own purposes of curiosity, are you your self a practicing Jew of Jewish descent? I am not trying to be rude just wonder, because it will have bearing on my next response.



posted on Feb, 4 2009 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by BeyondBelow

I think the problem with the understanding you have at this point is the discrepancy of timeline, as far as I have been told and learned through investigation, the tulmud is actually older than the writing that comprise the kabbalah, this would be one way to figure it.


The Babylonian Talmud is dated circa the 5th century C.E. It, however, is concerned with Judaism, and not the native Babylonian religion. Note that the Babylonian Talmud itself mentions the Qabalistic book Sepher Yetzirah (Sanhedrin 65b), which shows that the Sepher Yetzirah is older.



And to answer NWO secret agenda's question, no I did not leave, no I have not endangered my self as of yet, or so I belive.


Do you claim to be a Freemason?


And yes most deffinately the masonic orders are a lower level organization serving the interests of the councils who intern are doing the bidding of the illuminated ones. its a compartmentelized hiegherarchy


And how exactly do Masonic organizations "serve" these alleged "councils"?



Just for my own purposes of curiosity, are you your self a practicing Jew of Jewish descent? I am not trying to be rude just wonder, because it will have bearing on my next response.


Nope, born and raised Methodist.

[edit on 4-2-2009 by Masonic Light]



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