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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 04:41 PM by 12.21.12
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 04:42 PM by Nohup
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I think that the only real secret to the Masons is that like most gnostic-type organizations, it evolved to the point where the rituals became much
more important than the knowledge.
The way I see it, the general gist of Masonry is that intelligent people must organize secretly to help the world (and themselves in the process),
because the majority of average people are too stupid to get beyond their own petty beliefs and dogmas. The original organization hoped to do this
with the assistance of God and under his watchful eye, but it became apparent after a while that God was not really necessary in the equation.
Maybe they still do this, but from what I can see, these days, it's mostly about rituals and business contacts.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 04:52 PM by Achilles 13
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 04:55 PM by RuneSpider
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reply to post by Achilles 13
Y'know, if you weren't so fun to talk to, and so ridiculous in your presentation, you could almost be considered offensive.
I guess someone did find it offensive. Oh well.
reply to post by 12.21.12
So... where'd you get that from?
You pasted into your post with no reference whatsoever to it's origin.
[edit on 12-11-2008 by RuneSpider]
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 04:55 PM by Secret Master
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reply to post by 12.21.12
Truth be told, i know no more then them. I am just very willing to talk about the subject as i have nothing to lose or gain as i am not a mason.
For me it is about the research and debate. I love to learn things and i love to discuss and debate anything, from masonry to the life of cheese mold.
I suppose that is because i am a polymath. I have also been refered to as an indigo child, but this phenomena is still in it's theoretical stage and
hasnt been solidly proven.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 04:59 PM by 12.21.12
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reply to post by RuneSpider
I was notified by a mod and told to post a link. Link available. I got it from Solomon, one of the religious cult leaders.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 05:01 PM by JoshNorton
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Originally posted by Nohup
I think that the only real secret to the Masons is that like most gnostic-type organizations, it evolved to the point where the rituals became much
more important than the knowledge.
The way I see it, the general gist of Masonry is that intelligent people must organize secretly to help the world (and themselves in the process),
because the majority of average people are too stupid to get beyond their own petty beliefs and dogmas. The original organization hoped to do this
with the assistance of God and under his watchful eye, but it became apparent after a while that God was not really necessary in the equation.
Maybe they still do this, but from what I can see, these days, it's mostly about rituals and business contacts.
I can see how an outsider
might arrive at such a conclusion. Personally, I believe knowledge, or more importantly the search for knowledge, is one of the paramount teachings of
Masonry. To me, the ritual itself is rote mechanics, but the gist of the allegorical plays is that knowledge won't be handed to you on a silver
platter... it's a lifelong quest and it's different for every person.
It's not that Masonry holds any knowledge as secret, it's that the search for knowledge is individual and not something that can be taught.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 05:03 PM by cbass
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For what ever you people may think freemasonry is NOT
what we should all be able to agree on, is what it IS.
A Secret Society.
Now,I'm sure there are actually freemasons out there that will argue even this very fundamental point.
If they could I'm sure they would even tell you that there is no such thing as a Freemason.lol.
Here
is an account by someone who was involved in a secret society who had some very interesting experiences to say the least.
I'm not saying the S.S. in question was Freemasonry but it should give you a feel as to what this secret is that they protect so much.
It is pointless and fruitless to engague in debate with Freemasons and it will only drain your energy. My point in engaging in these types of
debates is to try and reach those who are considering joining one of these secret societies.
I think JFK said it best. After hearing his speech if you still want to join a S.S. then you are beyond
hope. JFK speech.
[gvid]="VideoPlayback" "http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=1710662559138481080&hl=en&fs=true" style="width:400px;height:326px"
[/gvid]
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 05:08 PM by JoshNorton
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
I was notified by a mod and told to post a link. Link available. I got it from Solomon, one of the religious cult leaders.
Except, of course,
for the matter that it's not.
from en.wikipedia.org...
Judging by its style of writing, the book was written in the Middle Ages, and ¨there is no ground for attributing the Key of Solomon, in its present
form, a higher antiquity than the fourteenth or fifteenth century.¨ Many books attributed to King Solomon were written in this period, which was
underscored by the Crusades and the influence that the contact with Jewish kabbalists and Arab alchemists had on European magicians and
demonologists. So your whole bit about having proof that goes back to before Jesus has kinda been debunked. I could take my clothes to Solomon's
Dry Cleaners, but that wouldn't make that fine establishment any more ancient, nor convey it any particular Masonic allegiance.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 05:09 PM by Achilles 13
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 05:19 PM by Secret Master
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reply to post by Achilles 13
Hey rune, was his rant directed at me? cause that would be really funny... i didnt get a chance to read it before it got yanked.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
I can see how an outsider might arrive at such a conclusion. Personally, I believe knowledge, or more importantly the search for knowledge, is one of
the paramount teachings of Masonry. To me, the ritual itself is rote mechanics, but the gist of the allegorical plays is that knowledge won't be
handed to you on a silver platter... it's a lifelong quest and it's different for every person.
It's not that Masonry holds any knowledge as secret, it's that the search for knowledge is individual and not something that can be taught.
Quite right, and honestly... if i didnt have to make that search for mysel... it wouldnt be all that interesting.. i dont want anyone to just tell me
the great mysteries of the universe... i want to discover them myself.
reply to post by cbass
Oh lord... not the JFK video again. This video has NOTIHNG to do with secret societies, it was Kennedy's way of saying he was not going to turn the
oval office into a shadow government. Shame on you for continueing to cite this video.
reply to post by Achilles 13
Are you having issues Achilles? you seem to be having issues... 2 yanked posts in under an hour, thats not good... are you getting flustered?
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 05:21 PM by JoshNorton
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Originally posted by cbass
I think JFK said it best. After hearing his speech if you still want to join a S.S. then you are beyond hope.
Again, cowards editing out giant
chunks of that speech to make it seem like he was saying something that he did not say.
Full text of the speech
here. People
who try to rewrite history by cutting up parts of his speech and passing them off as genuine are deplorable.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 05:49 PM by 12.21.12
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
Simply parroting "freemasonry is a cult" won't make it true, no matter how often you state it. Neither will you and your sock puppet Achilles
starring your own posts.
en.wikipedia.org...
Sock Puppet
A sock puppet is a puppet made from a sock (or similar garment) which is placed over the hand of a puppeteer. When the manipulator fits a hand into
the closed end of the sock, the puppet can be seemingly made to "talk" by opening and closing the hand. The puppet's mouth is formed by the region
between the sock's heel and toe, with the puppeteer's thumb forming a jaw. At a minimum the shape of the hand will instantly form the shape of a
mouth, but sometimes the mouth is padded by putting in a fairly hard piece of felt (often with a tongue glued inside). Sometimes the region between
the toe and heel is cut open with scissors to form a mouth.
Sock puppet
The sock is stretched out fully so that it is long enough to cover the puppeteer's wrist and part of the arm. Often, but not always, the puppeteer
will hide behind a stand and raise up his or her hand above the stand so that only the puppet is visible. Many sock puppeteers, however, stand in full
view along with their puppets and will hold conversations with their own sock puppets, using ventriloquism.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 06:04 PM by LowLevelMason
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reply to post by 12.21.12
Don't try to play ignorant.
A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception within an Internet community. In its earliest usage, a sockpuppet was a false
identity through which a member of an Internet community speaks while pretending not to, like a puppeteer manipulating a hand puppet.
In current usage, the perception of the term has been extended beyond second identities of people who already post in a forum to include other uses of
misleading online identities. For example, a NY Times article claims that "sock-puppeting" is defined as "the act of creating a fake online
identity to praise, defend or create the illusion of support for one’s self, allies or company."
The key difference between a sockpuppet and a regular pseudonym (sometimes termed an "alt" which is short for alternate, as in alternate identity)
is the pretense that the puppet is a third party who is not affiliated with the puppeteer.
en.wikipedia.org...
And no. The Illuminutty is not real. The Bavarian Illuminati was a real organization which no longer exists.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 06:07 PM by 12.21.12
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
I am not. I just thought I would share that with you however. It gave me a pretty good laugh.
Now for your claim that the Illuminatti does not exist, could you please provide some reference material?
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 06:07 PM by LowLevelMason
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reply to post by cbass
Big problem: We know that freemasonry is NOT a secret society.
I wish it was, really, because frankly the anti-mason trolls have proven that Freemasonry could offer to publically broadcast its every meeting and
you people would still not be satisified that something else wasn't "really" going on. Frankly, people wish to believe bad things about
freemasonry and that desire to believe has no barring on what the fraternity actually does.
It would be far better to be an actual secret society and let people who will fantasize about our "evil deeds," which they will do no matter how
much the evidence says they are wrong. But the facts are facts, and the fact is:
Freemasonry is not a secret society. The end.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 06:09 PM by LowLevelMason
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reply to post by 12.21.12
Of course you are, its very obvious. There was never a more overt case of internet sock puppetry.
And its time for you to find out about the burden of proof: the person proposing a theory has to prove it exists, because I cannot prove something
does not exist. We establish it does not exist after debunking all the evidence that I'm still waiting for you to come up with.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 06:11 PM by 12.21.12
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
Well unfortunately I have to go right now. But I will be able to do this later. Surely your claim that the Illuminatti no loger exist must have a
point of origin. So where did you hear this from?
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 06:19 PM by RuneSpider
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reply to post by Secret Master
Hey rune, was his rant directed at me? cause that would be really funny... i didnt get a chance to read it before it got yanked.
Not a clue, it's between him and the mods who the rant was about.
I was in the middle of a call here at work, I'm afraid. I'm sure it was entertaining though.
reply to post by 12.21.12
The scheme had its attraction for literary men, such as Johann Wolfgang von Goethe and Johann Gottfried Herder, and even for the reigning dukes of
Gotha and Weimar. Internal rupture and panic over succession preceded its downfall, which was effected by The Secular Edict made by the Bavarian
government in 1785.[
en.wikipedia.org...
That's the wiki link, anyway. LowLevelMason's better read than I am, and probably has a better source than I do. But Wiki's good for a
cliffnotes.
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reply posted on 12-11-2008 @ 06:38 PM by JoshNorton
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reply to post by 12.21.12
This link also has some good info... But wasn’t the back part of the Great Seal of
the United States, the one we still see on the dollar bill, a symbol of the Illuminati?
No, no matter how many books (and movies) claim it. The pyramid and eye symbol is never found among the Illuminati. Actually it is not even a Masonic
symbol, although there are similar symbols in Freemasonry, where a fascination with Egypt was widespread in the 18th and 19th century. The particular
pyramid used in the Great Seal was derived from Pyramidographia, a book published in 1646 in London by John Greaves (1602-1652), based on his trip to
Egypt. The eye was introduced by Congress Secretary Charles Thomson (1729-1824) – who was not a Freemason – in his 1792 speech prior to the
Seal’s Congressional acceptance as a very Christian “eye of the Providence”, presiding over the destiny of the United States. As such, it is
featured in a number of Christian churches and symbols, quite apart from, and well before, its use within the frame of Masonic rituals.
Didn’t many always accept the theory, however, that the Illuminati were leading the world or, at least, the U.S.A.?
Not before 1975. From the mid-19th century to 1975 the theory of the great Illuminati conspiracy remained the province of fringe “conspirationist”
authors, not particularly well-known by the general public. In 1975, a trilogy known as Illuminatus was published by Robert Joseph Shea (1933-1994)
and Robert Anton Wilson (born 1932). The three novels were written somewhat tongue-in-check, and Shea and Wilson were part of a neo-pagan group known
as the Discordians, worshippers of Eris the Great Goddes of Chaos through “cosmic jokes”. Actually, these are libertarian novels, where Weishaupt
does not die in Germany but emigrates to the American British Colonies, where he assumes the name of George Washington and establishes the United
States. When the U.S. evolve into an authoritarian, repressive state under the secret leadership of the Illuminati, Discordians organize the
resistance in the name of liberty, Chaos, and the Great Goddess Eris. It is after Shea and Wilson’s novels that the Illuminati start popping up
literally everywhere, from Umberto Eco’s novel Foucault’s Pendulum (1988) to the movie Lara Croft: Tomb Raider (2001), including countless comics,
role-playing games, and miscellaneous pieces of fiction. Unfortunately, some did not realize the nature of the Illuminatus novels, or even claimed
that Shea and Wilson revealed a real conspiracy under the guise of fiction. This theory achieved a certain degree of success among Protestant
fundamentalists. Its leading proponent, Milton William Cooper (1943-2001), died in a confrontation with law enforcement officers on November 5, 2001.
He refused to pay taxes to the U.S. government, claiming it was controlled by the Illuminati.
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