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What are the Masonic Secrets?

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posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:04 PM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 



Originally posted by LowLevelMason
reply to post by Achilles 13
 


I think its becoming really obvious that your a chat bot of some sorts.


''- Its an insult to real gentlemen for you to call yourself one''

[edit on 22-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]



As your screen name says kid..., ( lowlevelmason ) you really don't
know much about Freemasonry, so...

We do appreciated, sometimes, when you're expressing your feelings
on posts, BUT Please......., On real important subject, let the grownups talk
around the table.....

You, Trying to bash on Conspiracy Theorists, only to express your self
THAT...certainly NOT..... a Gentleman behaviour my friend...




- Tank you


- Achilles 13 -





posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:14 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by JoshNorton
 


I am just curious, as a non-mason it clears a few things up for me. So basically what you are saying is that the only requirement is to believe in God correct?

So in essence I could be of any faith or even my own and still be eligible to join a masonic lodge correct? If I believe in God but am not part of any religious group I could become a mason correct?


Yes



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by 12.21.12
 


Here's a short version of the story, from TIME magazine:




Masons and Catholics have been on the outs ever since Pope Clement XII in 1738 issued the first papal bull condemning the Masons on the ground that their beliefs and rituals amount to a false religion. Catholics are still forbidden to join the Masons under pain of excommunication. For their part, the Masons have seldom been reluctant in the past to condemn the Catholic Church.


TIME

I think the gist of the Papal Bull was that the Church had a hard time with men who would side with their Brothers instead of the Pope if it came down to making a decision.

My opinion is that the Church had an issue with us reporting directly to God and not going through his administrative assistant Clement XII.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 04:46 PM
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Anyone not convinced that freemasonry is (at its very top levels) questionable at best, and down right evil to its core at worst, is either not paying attention or legally retarded.

To those freemasons out there whos job it is to defend freemasonry at ANY and ALL costs, My patients is wearing thin with you people. There will be NO convincing you of anything even slightly off kilter going on within the upper levels of freemasonry. It doesn't matter how much evidene is put forth it will all be ignored, discredited, ridiculed, laughed at, or debunked BY the very people who are freemasons.
It is much like the CEO of McDonalds who puts out garbage and calls it food, knowing that it is barley fit for human consumption, but all of the employees will swear that it is healthfood, good nutricious, vitamin fortified whole grain healthfood.

The problem is that EVERONE knows the the truth about McDonalds even the employees know that they are involved in distributing crap that is barely edible or fit for human consumption. They know it, and are oK with it.

Masons, However, Actually believe that they are a pillar of virtue and serve their community with love and Honor. On the surface, they do. But, when you pan out and look at the big picture it is clear that freemasonry
does not have anyones best intrests in mind but themselves.

"To those who believe, no proof is needed. To those who do not, none will suffice".
This is a popular saying for a reason, and freemasons certainly fall in the latter portion of this quote.

You are all deluded and I pray for your damned souls.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by Achilles 13
 


As usual, your propaganda and attitude shows that your neither an adult nor a gentlemen conspiracy theorist.

If you had bothered to do any actual research into freemasonry you would understand that there is no such thing as a high level, medium level, or low level freemason. Its ONLY one of the major points of the entire fraternity, that EVERYONE IS EQUAL.
The nickname is a joke.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 05:18 PM
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Originally posted by JoshNorton

Originally posted by 12.21.12
I am just curious, as a non-mason it clears a few things up for me. So basically what you are saying is that the only requirement is to believe in God correct?

So in essence I could be of any faith or even my own and still be eligible to join a masonic lodge correct? If I believe in God but am not part of any religious group I could become a mason correct?
I did. And many of the "famous Freemasons" who were founding fathers considered themselves Deist.

Now, it's not the ONLY requirement. Belief in God, male, above a certain age, not born into slavery, sane, and recommended by those who sign your petition.


So in Freemasonry in order to become a member of the lodge you must believe in a supreme being, a God if you will or as you have stated a deist belief in a God, so in essence you must believe in a deity, correct? Your god must be the supreme architect of the universe in a singularity form correct?



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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Originally posted by cbass
Anyone not convinced that freemasonry is (at its very top levels) questionable at best, and down right evil to its core at worst, is either not paying attention or legally retarded.


Frankly, anyone who believes that "top level" freemasons actually exist has either not done their research or mentally ill. I have never seen so much time and energy spent on something that has no basis in reality. Its like people think if they believe in it hard enough, it will magically occur. No matter how bad you want freemasons to exist in levels, its never going to happen. There is 1 level of freemason, the 3rd degree master mason. No high levels, no low levels.


Originally posted by cbass
To those freemasons out there whos job it is to defend freemasonry at ANY and ALL costs, My patients is wearing thin with you people. There will be NO convincing you of anything even slightly off kilter going on within the upper levels of freemasonry. It doesn't matter how much evidene is put forth it will all be ignored, discredited, ridiculed, laughed at, or debunked BY the very people who are freemasons.
It is much like the CEO of McDonalds who puts out garbage and calls it food, knowing that it is barley fit for human consumption, but all of the employees will swear that it is healthfood, good nutricious, vitamin fortified whole grain healthfood.


Why are you getting so angry and upset with people who don't exist? I've yet to meet anyone whose job it was to defend freemasonry. In fact I've never met someone who didnt acknowledge it, like all organizations, has its problems.

However, I do grow tired of those who are unwilling to do any research or bother to look into the facts. Nothing on earth could convince you that the fantasy you believe in has no basis in reality, even though you've been debunked by everyone - even non-masons.

And I have no idea what your health rant has to do with any of this. Red herring?


Originally posted by cbass
Masons, However, Actually believe that they are a pillar of virtue and serve their community with love and Honor. On the surface, they do. But, when you pan out and look at the big picture it is clear that freemasonry
does not have anyones best intrests in mind but themselves.


I believe you are still constructing a fantasy here. I've never met a single mason who believed they were the pillar of virtue. However, it is untrue that its true "on the surface" - its true throughout. The big picture on freemasonry confirms it: people still doing good with everyone elses interests in mind.

If your going to make such accusations you need to provide an example, which of course you can't because your making this up as you go along: Tell us about the "big picture" where freemasons are serving themselves - give 1 ACTUAL EXAMPLE.


Originally posted by cbass
"To those who believe, no proof is needed. To those who do not, none will suffice".
This is a popular saying for a reason, and freemasons certainly fall in the latter portion of this quote.


Its a popular saying for those who choose to believe in things without evidence. I would venture to guess that, like me, most freemasons fall into the category of "I need proof before I believe in something."


Originally posted by cbass
You are all deluded and I pray for your damned souls.


The irony is, yet again, simply divine - you calling other people deluded. However, God does not appreciate you daming people and I will pray that he forgives you for your attempted to act like God. I must state though that I could care less what you think, my God knows whats going on and hes not a fan of anti-mason fantasy.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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reply to post by emsed1
 


So emsed you are a mason?

Do you believe in Jesus?



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 06:06 PM
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reply to post by LowLevelMason
 



First of all, I will not get roped into a long drawn out debate that will ultimately lead nowhere and no one will budge either way. What you have not and will not (and no other Mason that I have found will do ) is tell us all what you would accept as "proof"?
What sort of evidence would you accept as proof?
If you are honest with yourself and us you will say that

"No amount of evidence will suffice. No matter what you provide me with I will always discredit, ridecule, mock, debunk, laugh at, scoff at, and will not even consider!"

Don't believe me? Lets find out.
What would you accept as proof?

[edit on 22-10-2008 by cbass]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by cbass
 


Exellent post '' cbass ''

no mather how many proofs are being shown to freemasons,
( thousand and thousand had already been shown...)
it will always be very difficule for them to open their eyes.

They are so brainwashed and progamed like scientologist or Jehova witness followers,
that only few, will be able to go back to reality, open their eyes and
get out of freemasonry.


P.S. ( 12.21.12 got some very exellent questions, anwsers will be interesting...!)





- Achilles 13 -




posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by cbass
 


Okey dokey.

The problem with the McDonald's analogy is that when someone suspected them of putting out garbage he joined them and ate nothing else but McDonald's for a month.

He got really sick and that was a good, solid proof that McDonald's puts out garbage.

The problem with your criticisms of freemasonry is that you are not a mason and have no clue what goes on in masonry.

I don't think you realize that many of us (me included) were VERY skeptical of freemasonry. I dug into freemasonry for four years trying to find proof of any sort of wrongdoing or conspiracy.

We have all seen the 'sources' you guys use to make your point and they have all been debunked in the grandest tradition of Denying Ignorance.

I urge anyone that has any questions to confront a Mason. Go to the lodge. Ask questions. Show up at Masonic events and take pictures.

The whole of masonic history and ritual is exposed and online for you to read. There is only one secret remaining and it's a secret that cannot be 'told'. It cannot be written nor spoken, only experienced.

Consider attempts to reveal organizations like Scientology. They run and hide when hard questions are asked. Try to ask your local Diocese about Nazi collaboration and you will be locked out of the church.

But what happens when you challenge Freemasonry? We answer truthfully. We present credible evidence on our behalf. We acknowledge our mistakes and admit that there have been some seedy characters in our history. For this we are criticized.

At the end of the day, though, you will never find a Mason saying that your soul is damned. You will not find a Mason that curses you or stalks you or wishes harm to you.

At the end of the day, no matter what has passed between us, I will reach out my hand of friendship and help if you ever need it because that is what we do.

We aren't perfect, but we don't claim to be. We are just men who believe in the Fatherhood of God, and the Brotherhood of Man.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 06:58 PM
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Originally posted by cbass
First of all, I will not get roped into a long drawn out debate that will ultimately lead nowhere and no one will budge either way. What you have not and will not (and no other Mason that I have found will do ) is tell us all what you would accept as "proof"?
What sort of evidence would you accept as proof?
If you are honest with yourself and us you will say that


Actually, you won't get into a debate because you KNOW that you have no evidence for anything you claim.

I've seen several times where masons said would be proof of the conspiracies you believe in, although obviously its different for each one. For me, you need to do the following:

0) Provide a definition of and evidence for the idea that "high level masons" exist from masonic sources (see below on what that means). By high level I do mean masons with power, since we've previously established that the numerical degrees do not signify power or authority.

1) Provide evidence, from masonic sources which are credible (lodge monitors or
proclamations from grand lodges - books written by masons are not authoritative for any of this), that states that somehow by being a high level mason your somehow going to be propelled into a position of power, or that by being in power as a mason there is some masonic agenda you must serve.

2) Provide a critical mass of world leaders (I'll take even 1 at this point) that are high level masons. This is required only after you've proven (1), but in order for there to be a massive masonic conspiracy your going to have to show at least 1 person in the world who has the power to carry it out, which would be a world leader.

Then you will have provided sufficient evidence for your much beloved masonic conspiracy. Until then, you've got nothing.


Originally posted by cbass
"No amount of evidence will suffice. No matter what you provide me with I will always discredit, ridecule, mock, debunk, laugh at, scoff at, and will not even consider!"


Yep, thats your motto. Anything coming close to truth you'll never believe because of it.

Now, go for it.

[edit on 22-10-2008 by LowLevelMason]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Achilles 13
 


You and cbass work excellent together. I must say you two get an A+ for being one of the best anti-mason posting gangs on ATS.

However, not 1 "proofs" has ever been shown.

The anti-masons are so brainwashed they will believe absolutely anything - except the truth.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
reply to post by emsed1
 


So emsed you are a mason?

Do you believe in Jesus?


Yes I am, and yes I do. I will go beyond simply saying that I believe 'in' Jesus and state that I believe Jesus is the Son of God and he suffered and died for our sins.

There isn't anything in Freemasonry that goes against those teachings. I would even go so far as to say Freemasonry has done more to enhance and reinforce my faith than any other experience in my life.

That's not because Freemasonry has anything to do with religion. It's just that Freemasonry taught me that the duty I owe to God and my family is sacred and that becoming a better Mason helps me become a better man and a better Christian.

I don't even know the religious persuasion of my brothers except one guy who told me he is Catholic and another guy from a different lodge that goes to my church. (Methodist)

We have Muslims, Mormons, Deists, Protestants and Catholics. We don't talk about religion in lodge, though, because it is divisive. More than anything Masonry teaches tolerance.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:04 PM
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Originally posted by cbass
Anyone not convinced that freemasonry is (at its very top levels) questionable at best, and down right evil to its core at worst, is either not paying attention or legally retarded.

To those freemasons out there whos job it is to defend freemasonry at ANY and ALL costs, My patients is wearing thin with you people. There will be NO convincing you of anything even slightly off kilter going on within the upper levels of freemasonry. It doesn't matter how much evidene is put forth it will all be ignored, discredited, ridiculed, laughed at, or debunked BY the very people who are freemasons.
It is much like the CEO of McDonalds who puts out garbage and calls it food, knowing that it is barley fit for human consumption, but all of the employees will swear that it is healthfood, good nutricious, vitamin fortified whole grain healthfood.

The problem is that EVERONE knows the the truth about McDonalds even the employees know that they are involved in distributing crap that is barely edible or fit for human consumption. They know it, and are oK with it.

Masons, However, Actually believe that they are a pillar of virtue and serve their community with love and Honor. On the surface, they do. But, when you pan out and look at the big picture it is clear that freemasonry
does not have anyones best intrests in mind but themselves.

"To those who believe, no proof is needed. To those who do not, none will suffice".
This is a popular saying for a reason, and freemasons certainly fall in the latter portion of this quote.

You are all deluded and I pray for your damned souls.


When I join my fellow Brothers for Lodge once a month, I have never once done anything incriminating, barbaric, and/or selfish. We have dinner and then conduct Lodge.

Is there anything specific you wish to expel about "what self-serving interests" we seek to satisfy? I'm puzzled...



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 07:13 PM
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As your screen name says kid..., ( lowlevelmason ) you really don't
know much about Freemasonry, so...



I'm just going to go with that part there.
His handle here is a joke based on comments by folks like you. I'm willing to bet by your continual statements and actions here he know more than you.
Probably will continue to.

[edit on 22-10-2008 by RuneSpider]



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by LowLevelMason
reply to post by Achilles 13
 


However, not 1 "proofs" has ever been shown.

.


NOT ONE...... THOUSANDS OF PROOFS HAVE BEEN SHOWN...!


i am Sorry Kid..! You were guilible anought to follow the wolf to
Pleasure island...! it seems maybe TO LATE..! for you, you will probably
stay in wonderland forever...!

BUT...! if all Conspiracy Theorists here on ATS could only wakeup
a least, One, Freemasonry's brainwashed Victim, that is something to
be proud of...!

Good luck Kid..!



- Achilles 13 -




posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:37 PM
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reply to post by cutbothways
 


If its secrets you're looking for, theres a lot out there. Don't rely on some establishment to tell you what's true and what's false, figure it out for yourself. I suggest watching a doc called the "Pharmacratic Inquisition".



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:39 PM
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Originally posted by 12.21.12
I am aware that to become a freemason you must believe in God, correct?

So, I have a question and I am very curious to hear what different masons have to say about this. Do you Masons believe in Jesus?

Please elaborate, I am dying with curiosity here. Thank You!


I do not believe in jesus christ, because there was no such being.

The biblical savior described in the new testemant was not named Jesus, nor Christ. the name Jesus, is not a jewish name, and thus a jew, born in isreal, to devote jewish parents would not be given a non-jewish name. the name "Christ" is also not jewish, it is a greek word meaning "Annointed one". it is not even a name, but rather a title.

Now, if you were to ask me if i believe in the divinity of "Yeshua, the Annointed One" then my answer would be yes.

This lil tidbit, was brought to you by a gentleman (That being me) who like you, questioned what he heard of the masons and their craft. In my investigation of the order, i developed an interest into deeper spiritual topics, as well as a study in the ancient languages.

I mention this, because if christians cant even get the name of their own savior right, what else didnt they get right? is it possible that they have missinterpretated the whole of the masonry and took it as sometihng sinister, when in fact it was simply something beyond their understanding?

We fear that which we dont understand and cant control.



posted on Oct, 22 2008 @ 08:51 PM
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reply to post by Secret Master
 


Thank you! So as a follow up to that question, do you believe in God as a singularity? A superior being, so to speak?



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