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Reality: The Grand Illusion

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posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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What's mumbo jumbo is the new age tint being given to it by the media, some people and the new agers themselves.

Skyfloating's thread is here:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

It's a long read, but he is living proof that it works.

As for the quantum physics link: There is a thread here on ATS devoted to the exact article, but I can't find it at the moment. If I find it I will post it.




posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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First of all, I love this topic, and I hate to sound contrary. But every single comment I’ve read on this has left me confused and in disagreement.

What you are calling “reality” is what I would call “perception”.

I believe that reality doesn’t matter what you think of it. You can have a misperception about truth. Perhaps everyone perceives something wrongly. But “truth” doesn’t care. It remains true, regardless of what people believe. (I assume here that “reality” and “truth” are precisely the same.)

Yes, I know that quantum mechanics goes into a lot of detail saying that certain truths are generated only upon observation of something. And quantum theorists give a name for this, calling it “quantum collapse”. But I’ve always felt there was a huge misunderstanding about that statement, which is really just saying that the future doesn’t exist until you experience it; I don’t think there is really anything much more to quantum collapse than that.

So I have to disagree with the premise of this thread. To me it doesn’t really move us forward in a productive way. It is just confusing doublethink.

Take a look at a glass of water. Then say, “the water creates the glass.” In a weird sense – that is true. Without the water, the glass has no purpose. But most people would say that the water is contained in the glass. Likewise, consciousness is contained in reality.

#

To me, the real issue is what physical truths and aspects of reality do we not know about, which permits consciousness to exist? Is there perhaps some other hidden dimension to our existence that we can actually detect and work with?

All that said, this is a great thread. I'm reading every comment carefully, and looking still at the extensive info in the OP.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 11:02 PM
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Originally posted by TheBandit795
This is a good read. It explains why there will be a paradigm shift happening, which will be the reverse of what we currently think of reality.

We currently think reality is "out there" and that it exists outside and independent of us. The new (super)paradigm will be like this. There is an underlying reality, but we never experience it directly. What we perceive, what we see is nothing but the construction of our consciousness. Everything that exists around us is created by consciousness and is projected according to it.

Reality (everything in the universe and every experience we have) is all in the mind. All within our consciousness, and is created by our consciousness.

REALITY: The Grand Illusion


I am new to the Forum, still checking things out. I came across your post. I agree ~ there is an underlying reality and Big Change (paradigm shift) coming (amazed the general public don't feel it). TIME has changed. I believe that odometer of the earth is being set back to Zero.
Great Post ~ Thank you.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by Buck Division
I believe that reality doesn’t matter what you think of it. You can have a misperception about truth. Perhaps everyone perceives something wrongly. But “truth” doesn’t care. It remains true, regardless of what people believe.


That is because you...ehem.. perceive it that way. Get it?

This is why certain scientist is actually a spiritual person, and from their words you can tell that they also dwell on the spiritual side on things, and not just fixating on the exact (visible) but also on the subtle truth.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 11:33 PM
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Originally posted by Jazzyguy
That is because you...ehem.. perceive it that way. Get it?

I think I get your point. I think it is wrong.

With respect, Jazzy, no no no. This whole argument is not productive. It leads people, who believe they can fly in some '___' induced delusion, to jump off of buildings and plummet to their death.

Reality has a bite. A bad one sometimes. Reality does not matter what we think of it. It is real. The illusion exists only in our mind. We try to get as close to reality as we can. In general, that serves us very well.

And when we deny reality, or think we control what is real, we are just opening the door to pain and suffering. It doesn't serve us at all.

So, as you can see -- I am kind of adamant about making this point.

#

Now I will concede that we are still a long way from any sort of perfect understanding, and there are a lot of things we think are true that are actually false. I don't want you to think I am being arrogant (which is maybe how I sound.) On this one particular point, that reality is NOT an illusion, I think I'm right.

Whatever paradigm shift we experience will move us closer to a reality that has always existed, but which we have been unaware of. We will be shaped by an unchanging eternal reality -- not the other way around.

Edit: I wanted to add that, in my opinion, your last comment about scientists and spirituality is 100% correct. I would say that spirits are real, that is my educated guess. So I think we can agree on that point



[edit on 29-4-2008 by Buck Division]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 12:03 AM
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Please excuse this response but:
Why oh why does this make me want to listen to Tool?


Goood music.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 12:10 AM
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I hope you are right about a paradigm shift we could certainly use one.

One thing that always comes up for me when this subject is discussed is the apparent impossiblity for either spoken or written language including math to capture reality or truth but merely proximate experience.

Experience can be collective and individual.

I long for a day that may never come... I hope for progress in human nature so that the sanctity of all life is realized and the level of what is acceptable for human behavior is raised out of this barbaric state where passions are given free reign to create this loop tape of misery we seem to be repeating over and over ad infinitum.

Just my 2 cents.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 02:12 AM
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This is a great thread, stuff I have pondered myself often during meditation. And also some excellent posts by Buck.


I think the toughest thing to do is to is separate our perception from true reality. I think this is really where the paradigm shift may occur. I think once we understand reality better, which is where quantum physics comes in. We will be better suited to live in harmony with the true nature of reality and being. When this happens, gone will be the days of unabashed ego, outlandish selfishness and greed, and political and religious dogma skewing our perception of what is true and real.

As for controlling reality, I think the more we understand it truths, the more we will be able to utilize them in our favor. I think the laws of attraction fits in with these truths. The important thing to understand with that is that it works in a push/pull balance, so you can't just pull the object of your desire to you. You also have push your way to that object as well and meet somewhere in the center.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but I have to listen to Lateralus
and get some sleep.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by frailty]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 02:26 AM
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Originally posted by thehumbleone
I'm telling you guys, reality is like a dream. There is the majority of people who can't control their dreams, and then there is the rare few who learn how to "Lucid dream" and CAN control their dreams and make their own reality.

[edit on 29-4-2008 by thehumbleone]


I like your point. The dreams can be interpreted and be determined of what's happening in your life currently and later on in life. If you remember a bit of your dream, ask yourself questions and write down of what the possible meanings it has. You have dreams for a reason.


I can control my dreams to some extent but not all the time. For nightmareish dreams I can control most of them. For normal dreams I plainly have a hard time focusing on what dream I want to focus on.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 03:11 AM
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I get the distinct impression that the state of the world causes some people to wish they could just stop it and get off. They have no idea how to fix things and see only more more problems heading this way. So since they can't cope with this situation they turn to some spiritual guidance be it God (love the link between ZPF and God
, stull utter nonsense though) or they believe that this is not "the" reality. We are all living in a Matrix world which will change for the better.

Sorry folks, reality check
. There is no God and this IS reality entirely the product of Humans. That means all the good and bad is of our own making. It's time to get off your butts, stop moaning, and DO SOMETHING. Wallowing in self pity hoping for a new "reality" achieves nothing. Even if you believe that what you are doing is having an insignificant effect you would be suprised what effect a million of you will have! Complain to the politicians, highlight the lying press, do not accept c...p from anybody, do what is morally right (you do not need God there is only ONE absolute rule, ironically enough a shortened variant of it is in the bible!). The bible thumpers can't cope with the full rule!

Now back to work to pay the mortgage, another reality check



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 03:13 AM
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To expand on the Humbleones idea, and put it into the context of the thread. Here is what I believe:

We goto sleep. We dream. We dream entire worlds into being. We dream entire people into being. We dream entire stories into being. When we wake up we realize it was an illusion, an illusion in the sense that we were One, and not the Many separate dream creations i.e the creator of the Dream itself. The world, and it's characters, illusions of the dream creators Mind.

Similarly, I believe the Creator of Everything, all of Us, and the Universe, is dreaming all of This into being.

What happens when the Creator wakes up? Does it realize the same illusions as we, the Many, do when we wake up from our nights' dreams?

I believe we are all the manifestations of a Big Dream, from One.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 03:51 AM
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reply to post by malcr
 


Pure consciousness takes the path of least resistance, the mind however, creates obstacles. Like electricity conducted on a copper rod, it takes the path of least resistance. But the copper may have 'impurities' thus conducting electricity with less efficiency. In order for the electricity to be conducted at maximum efficiency on the copper rod, the rod must be in its purest form.

You, friend, own a mind that is not pure and creates obstacles for which your consciousness needs not, to be free. Like different states of Water, your mind is solid and cannot penetrate through the wall in order to perceive more. You need to become liquid and condensate outside the wall, where you will see the sky. Then, you need to become gas and be light enough to rise higher and higher into the sky, where you shall experience total freedom, peace, tranquility, and be one with the sky.

A little heat is what you need to accomplish it.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Moegli]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 04:12 AM
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"We will be shaped by an unchanging eternal reality -- not the other way around."



Wow, awesome quote! Indeed you are right, sir! There is a truth that has always existed and is eternal, we are yet to fully find it. Though through this search we are indeed part of a changing mental paradigm that exists of eternity and if all intellectual species experience this at some point in their evolution then I'd presume that there is also a changing eternal reality, only that in THAT reality is where the delusion and illusion actually take place! The reality that does not have a full understanding of existence is the illusion.

God merely equates to goodness, and Devil to evil. These are emotional choices that we can make as Human beings so that we can respect one another better and the planet and all of existence better. The universe consists of both.

So there are three factors here. The universe which is in essence a neutral, then the choice of Good and Evil through sentient beings such as ourselves.

And to mix it up even more, but only to stay on the topic of truth!: Choice is only an illusion at the macro level as we are only a by-product and reaction of our environment as our environment is the same to us no matter how you look at it!

As for personal responsibility, the blame is only on ourselves! In some odd way we still have choice and decision to change this planet and our civilization, or maybe it is simply the reaction of us wanting to survive so we choose the most viable and logical path... that which in essence was already mapped for us because our genes evolved to want to survive, thus the path of destruction, corruption, lies and delusion ultimately leads to a goal self preservation which in turn brings back love, goodness and truth as the only optional choice for such preservation to happen!

[edit on 30-4-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 06:00 AM
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But this Earth, this "reality", these people and places, existed before I did, before I was born into this world.. into this flesh.

How do you explain that if we truly create our surroundings from what we intend and perceive mentally?

Did someone will me into existence? Who on Earth would do such a thing?



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 06:12 AM
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While I enjoy reading these types of threads, I dont involve myself much in them for the reason that some things are figured out in contemplation/meditation rather than chatter.

The mind sometimes behaves like a cat chasing its own tail. Its capability to perceive is limited to the five senses and its earthly surroundings. While its interesting to talk about all this at length and publish stuff on it and so forth, there comes a time when one actually wants to experience what is talked about and written about.

In this spirit I´ll ask all you experts: How you you personally experience consciousness-as-cause-of-reality?



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 06:17 AM
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you know, i believe this theory.

it's weird but i read in this ufo book where this alien entity was being channeled and this alien says the same thing - "There is only one rule of physical existence - we create our individual realities through our thoughts, attitudes and beliefs. Events don't happen to us; we cause them by what we expect to see in our world and our lives. Every event we encounter and participate in is a reflection of what we think and feel."




posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 07:57 AM
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reply to post by runetang
 



Did someone will me into existence? Who on Earth would do such a thing?

I heard a guru say that you did! ie. you chose this life, even your parents; etc. etc. Now thats what he said, not me. I am not saying its not true, its just that it is still pretty much muddled up in my mind. I am closer to where you are. I can't see how my consciousness created the reality of all those planets out there that I've never been to or seen, or the realities in your life that, however much they are unknown to me, are REAL to you; etc. etc.
I don't see me creating or changing much of anything in this world, but I can dance .... can be part of it, just not control it. Nor would I be presumptuous enough to want to.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 09:19 AM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


This is true. Our capability to perceive reality with our own senses is very limited. Take light for example (as mentioned in the link). The time it takes for light to travel from the sun to my eyes is 8.3 minutes. That's from my point of view. It's travel that distance to reach to my eyes. But that's entirely my point of view. If you are traveling at 99.99% of the speed of light, it will not pass by you slowly, but it will pass you at the speed of light. Not faster and definitely not slower. This is the reason why.


This reflects a unique property of light. In the space time continuum there is no separation between the emission of a light ray and its absorption. What Einstein called the "space time interval" between the two ends of a light ray is always zero.


www.peterrussell.com...

The space time does not actually exist, but is entirely created by our perception. By our consciousness. Everything you see around you is at this very moment repeatedly being created by your consciousness.

Furthermore, the so-called hard, biting reality ceases to exist at the quantum level where they are 99.9999999999999999% empty space, and of which the rest is particles zipping in and out of existence in fractions of a second.

By you state of being, which determines/activates your core beliefs, and from which your thoughts and emotions arise.

That's why complaining, protesting, fighting, or struggling against something etc... Never works. In order to be happy and successful, you have to be that state of mind first. It's like a catch 22. Physical action, although it is essential, is the last thing that you do in order to get something you want. First you have to be something, then make sure your core beliefs do not conflict with it (or else you will be shooting yourself in the foot), which will in turn generate your thoughts about it, and cause you to take action at the right time in order to get what you intended to have.

But you know, of course I may be wrong and we already know near everything about reality; the hard, physical world is all there is; Jesus is the only way to heaven or we all have to submit to Allah..



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 12:09 PM
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If you look at my signature, you'll see Bill Hicks was on to it... back in the early-mid nineties...

How did he know it? Probably from some fungus like substance found in fecal matter not designed for human consumption, but hey, I'm just guessing.

point is that a lot of 'myths' and 'superstitions' might have more meaning behind what we think.

Also, for those who know a bit about Kabbalah, they also state the same thing about what is reality and how we just interpret them through our perceptions.

Then you have the law of attraction, as previously mentioned here.

I know the pieces fit....



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 12:14 PM
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reply to post by Skyfloating
 


That's easy!

It all starts with an intention. It can be something as simple as "I am going to get a cup of coffee" to "I'm going to build a pyramid"...and the details follow, but if the intention is held, you will get that coffee and you will build that pyramid. Thought>Intention>Manifestation. In the beginning was thought. Then thought thinks itself into reality and manifests the myriad things. The myriad things are not the reality but the result of the thought or consciousness that created it. So the ultimate reality is just consciousness. I guess...

Anyone interested should check out "Hnadbook for a new Paradigm" a free book offered at "nomorehoaxes.com" It's a book that is purportedly written by Pleadians trying to warn and guide thru the changes we have been perceiving to be coming into being. It's pretty interesting.

Great thread BTW!





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