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Queen Elizabeth II. Top Mason?

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posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 04:43 PM
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reply to post by cutbothways
 


what mother lodge are you talking about? i dont listen to some "mother lodge"....or in that fact the queen of England.

why would i need to listen to her?




posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 04:55 PM
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I don't get it either. Frankly, I could care less what the UGLE does (or any other state Grand Lodge but my own, for that matter). As an American, I also don't really care about the Queen of England (apologies to our UK members).



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by JustMe74
 


Are you the Grand Poohbah Worshipful Master [snip]
If you aren't a head Mason, how do you know who you get
your orders from?

Of course, if you did, you would tell us the truth anyway, would you.



In these Ancient rituals we solemnly promise never to reveal any of the secrets or mysteries of Freemasonry to anyone in the world who is not entitled to receive them.

www.grandlodgeofallengland.org...

Guess I'm not worthy enough. Maybe if I was a Worshipful Master?

"and their names were full of Blasphemy."

[edit on 29-4-2008 by cutbothways]

[edit on 29-4-2008 by cutbothways]


Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.



[edit on 29-4-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by cutbothways
Are you the Grand Poohbah Worshipful Master Baiter?


Disgusting and immature. Done with this thread.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 05:25 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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Back on Topic Please.

We're not discussing members



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by cutbothways
 


Getting orders from whom?
What orders?
I don’t know what orders you’re talking about,
I have never received any orders?
I’m so confused???



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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Hi cutsbothways

I've been reading your recent posts with interest, and a certain feeling of deja vu as well, as many of the points you raise have been covered before. I would certainly recommend running a search as you may be surprised at the wealth of information out there...

As far as the Queen is concerned, have a read through this thread. It's not too long, and covers some good ground.



The United Grand Lodge of England (UGLE) was formed in 1717, and all regular Masonry today derives from this "Mother" Grand Lodge.

Although not really relevant to the topic, this statement is deceptive. Scottish and Irish freemasonry did not derive from English freemasonry, but evolved independently. It would be more true to say that all regular freemasonry can trace its roots back to the UK.


Here is a picture of their emblem. (image snipped)

Do you see Pan's image there?

What you have posted is the Coat Of Arms of the Grand Lodge of All England, an irregular outfit started in 2005. Many of the "facts" about freemasonry on the site are somewhat fanciful. You can read about the UGLE coat of arms here - there is a detailed description along with a picture.

As for Pan, they are in fact Cherubs. Have a read of this thread - the cherub stuff starts on page 3.


So, I wanted to see who heads up the UGLE "Mother" Lodge

According to the "mother lodge" site itself



"In 1442 King Henry VI ... (snip) ... and never afterwards attempted to disturb the meetings of the fraternity."



Again, this quote is taken from GLoAE website, not the UGLE website. In 1442 speculative freemasonry as we know it today did not exist. The belief held by GLoAE is that speculative freemasonry has greater antiquity than modern masonic scholars generally agree upon. Certainly in 1442 there were only operatives.


Of course, the "grand lodge mother of the world" site does not tell us who the grand master is. So we have to go looking at other sites.

I would recommend the UGLE site - www.ugle.org.uk - there you will discover that the Grand Master of the UGLE is the Duke of Kent.



... (snip) .. Although few seem to be aware of it, the
British monarch, who may serve personally as the grand master of this lodge
before his coronation as king, installs its grand master, and is, like the
Prince of Wales (see below), over Freemasonry worldwide.[114] We should not be
surprised, then, by Elizabeth II's direct oversight of various masonic
institutions and activities.

www.mail-archive.com...@listserv.aol.com/msg08112.html

Few are aware of it because it is entirely untrue. Each regular Grand Lodge is sovereign and independent by definition, so there can't be anyone in charge of all of them. By definition.


But this still doesn't definitively answer my question. Is Queen Elizabeth the Top Mason...

Hopefully I have answered your question. Queen Elizabeth is not the top mason. As has been pointed out by others - she is female. She is, however, the patron of the Grand Charity - the charitable arm of UGLE.


I may not be able to prove that the Queen is the Head of Masonry, however, I can come close.

Not that close, I'm afraid



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 11:50 PM
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Originally posted by cutbothways
Now, in the "Grand Lodge" insignia, you will see a banner that says
"holiness to the Lord"

Again, this is in reference to the coat of arms of the irregular Grand Lodge of All England. Just to put this into some kind of perspective, the UGLE (founded 1717) has about a quarter of a million members. The GLoAE (founded 2005) probably has less than 100.

The motto of the UGLE is AVDI VIDE TACE, which translated means HEAR SEE BE SILENT.


In order to amend a statute in the "Order of the Garter", one must be the Head of the Order of the Garter, so therefore we can establish how a woman could be the Top Mason.

The Order of the Garter is a chivalric order and has nothing whatsoever to do with freemasonry. Read the Wiki page on it here.


OK, back to facts.

Er... sure.



The UK public don't have Members of Parliament. Only Queen Elizabeth II has them. Once elected into office, Members of Parliament are required to swear their Oath of Allegiance only to the Patron Head of the Secret Society of Freemasons, Queen Elizabeth II, but not to the UK public who elect MP's and then pay their wages. This is probably one of the reasons that questions are never asked in Parliament about the UK Monarch and her part in the massive Judicial Oath fraud.

Almost nothing in the quote above is true. I have emboldened the accurate bit. Your source appears to be a man with a grudge - it seems that almost everyone is out to get him and absolutely nothing that has happened to him is his fault.


... what I have dug up should be sufficient for anyone who's mind hasn't been closed by the Lodge.

Given the quality of your sources, which has given you faulty information and led you to faulty conclusions, it's ironic that you believe that people who don't agree with you are closed-minded.


Next I suppose your going to tell me she is not the Head of the Knights of Malta either.

The Queen is the head of the Order of St. John - I suspect this is what you are referring to. There are other modern incarnations of the Knights of Malta which have nothing to do with the Queen. Read about them here.


So, here I show that Mason are Loyal to the King (or Queen) and since all Freemason are loyal to the "Mother Lodge" who toasts to the Queen, I would suggest she is the boss.

All regular freemasons are loyal to their country and its head of state. In the case of Bahama freemasons this would be the Queen. The Monarch is toasted before all others at a masonic function as a mark of respect and loyalty. In the US, the Pledge of Allegiance is given in open lodge for the same reasons.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 02:22 AM
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CutBothWays, those porch-masons are so angry with the honest people (such as yourself), who constantly expose Queen Elizabeth & her ilk, as you've done. I appreciate your posts, as usual. We need to continue telling the truth about Elizabeth II, and avoid arguing with the porch-masons, and the shills for high-degree freemasons.

Rebuke all of them. They're trying to keep you busy with debunking their new & old arguments. They can't stop the growing number of experts, ex-Freemasons & scholars, who share the truth about Queen Elizabeth & her secret-society (and mystery-religions):

The Light Behind Masonry - Bill Schnoebelen

Bill Schnoebelen exposes the truth behind the secret club known as Freemasonry. A large percentage of Masons are kept in the dark on purpose so the real agenda can be carried out. Bill exposes the intentions behind the images put forth by the Masons and Shriners.


Google Video Link


History of Freemasonry

Google Video Link



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 03:01 AM
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Originally posted by ChadAndrewATS
CutBothWays, those porch-masons are so angry with the honest people (such as yourself), who constantly expose Queen Elizabeth & her ilk, as you've done. I appreciate your posts, as usual. We need to continue telling the truth about Elizabeth II, and avoid arguing with the porch-masons, and the shills for high-degree freemasons.

Rebuke all of them. They're trying to keep you busy with debunking their new & old arguments. They can't stop the growing number of experts, ex-Freemasons & scholars, who share the truth about Queen Elizabeth & her secret-society (and mystery-religions):


Another great post/thread ChadAndrew and CutBothWays. Here's a challenge for those readers of this thread who are on the fence regarding the reality of freemasonry. Take some time to read the thread/post history of myself, ChadAndrewATS and CutBothWays. Then take some time to read the thread/post history of AugustMasonicus, MasonicLight, BushidoMason and whichever Mason you like. You are going to find undeniably that we are telling you the truth, and the Masons here on ATS are ONLY here to lie and cover-up. They are paid agents, low-level "porch" masons doing their master's bidding, proving that their good little pee-ons, making masonry seem benevolent, attractive and mysterious, while lying about any real info that exposes them.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 04:30 AM
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reply to post by freight tomsen
 

I noticed you have been exposing high-degree freemasons & their shills for a while. Thanks for sharing the truth about freemasons & their shills, who constantly insult truthworthy sources of information, such as yourself, Jaamaan, CutBothWays, SonOfTheWidow, and others, who have been sharing the truth about freemasonry/druidism with the public.

They cannot debunk all of you, so they become angry & insult all of you.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by ChadAndrewATS]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 05:30 AM
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I get tired of arguing sometimes.

I come to ATS to talk about theories, and interesting reading I've found.

You can talk about anything else, but when it comes to Masons, it's always a personal challenge to keep my cool.

Why does ATS allow these obvious Masonic disinformants continue, yet never do they get banned. Everyonce in a while, you'll see one get warned, but that's it.

They banned me from the Daily Paul for spreading the word that that schedular told me. You should see how many Masons or in the Ron Paul forum. Their thick.

I'm sick of these people ruining America.

They've been in on America's demise since day one.

People, as colonist were living peacefully, until they started taxing things like whisky.

Why do you think the majority of the American Indians sided with the British?

George Washington was a moron, and a British Royalty/Knights of Malta idiot, and was one of the worst battle commanders of all time. He sold the hard earned colonists rights right back to British Royalty loyal to the Masons.

He lost 1000's of lives to stupid judgements, and only won the war on the backs of some very hardened militia.

Watch the History channels "Revolution" some time.

Ben Franklin was a moron too. Most of his inventions, had already been invented, but Franklin had a new country to hold his patents, and his Masonic buddies were in on it.

Ben Franklin got rich from publishing a propoganda newspaper.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by cutbothways]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 05:37 AM
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Originally posted by freight tomsen
They are paid agents,


If it were only so, the extra income would be invaluable....


low-level "porch" masons


What exactly is a 'porch-mason'? Can you clarify this phrase for us?



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 05:41 AM
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reply to post by stompk
 


You say you have become tired of arguing yet here you are, back on AboveTopSecret posting the same nonesense as before. Unsubstantiated opinion and specious speculation, if you really wanted to further yourself you might actually want to investigate the truth instead of relying on others faulty logic and paranoid opinions to support your stance.



[edit on 30-4-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 06:17 AM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


Thanks for keeping the thread alive.



Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 30-4-2008 by elevatedone]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by gaeliclad


And Masonic Light, in Ireland Masons are called "ancient" are they still under the UGLE?


No, Ireland has its own Grand Lodge. Its website can be viewed here.

The United Grand Lodge of England has jurisdiction only over English Lodges, which includes a few scattered Lodges in former territories such as India and Hong Kong.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Masonic Light]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 08:32 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


First off.. I must say how RUDE some of the posters have been towards Masons.. really uncalled for. Derogatory terms like "porch Masons" are really unneeded I believe..

Masoniclight, what I meant was if the Lodges in America correspond with the UGLE and are "recognized" are the Irish lodges as well just like American?

Also, if there even any difference and the Irish lodges just like using a different name?



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 08:47 AM
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Originally posted by gaeliclad


Masoniclight, what I meant was if the Lodges in America correspond with the UGLE and are "recognized" are the Irish lodges as well just like American?


Ah, ok. Yes, the UGLE and Grand Lodge of Ireland share full fraternal recognition. Recognition is also shared with the Grand Lodge of Scotland, the varioua Canadian and Australian Grand Lodges, and the ones on the Continent and in Asia.


Also, if there even any difference and the Irish lodges just like using a different name?


There are minor ritualistic differences in each separate jurisdiction. But all are relatively close to each other in all the essentials.

Different Grand Lodges will use slightly difference names as well. This usually reflects their line of descent. Those with "Antient" or "Ancient" in their title can trace their lineage back to the A.Y.M. branch of Irish Freemasons (my Grand Lodge is in this line). Those who style themselves "Free and Accepted" usually are descended by charter from the Premiere Grand Lodge of London alone, which eventually merged with the AYM's, giving birth to the UGLE.



posted on Jun, 2 2008 @ 07:39 AM
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reply to post by Masonic Light
 


I am not a member of this Forum but if anyone wishes to ask questions about the original form of Anglo-Saxon Freemasonry in England, then I will stay in touch wit this thread as time permits and would be pleased to assist you.

Just to clear things up a little, the suggestion that organised or "speculative" Freemasonry was started in the tiny back room of a London pub in 1717 is, of course, obvious nonsense.

And our current Grand Master Mason is not the Queen of England, who has no connection with us other than as with other loyal citizens of our Country, but Brother John Gordon Graves.

Peter Clatworthy
Grand Secretary
Grand Lodge of All England
York - 2 June 2008



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