UFO crash in Bolivia, outstanding case

reply to post by Camilo1


Interesting case Camilo1, great post, strrd and flggd.

Here you find the same case but from Bob Pratt, just for some additional information.
Perhaps you find it interesting.

Bob Pratt was an icon in the field of UFO research. He had been on the scene since the early days of ARPO and NICAP, and during the early and mid-1980's worked with the late Dr J. Allen Hynek, retired Ohio State University Astronomer and former USAF Project Blue Book hired debunker, who is regarded by most members of the UFO community as the outstanding example of a credentialed scientific UFO researcher (photo, left).

www.jerrypippin.com...

Bob Pratt passed away on Monday, November 21, 2005.


Here is the info.
Choose; Mysterious Crashes in the Andes,

www.mufon.com...


[edit on 29/4/08 by spacevisitor]

[edit on 29/4/08 by spacevisitor]

Originally posted by spikedmilk
Very nice Camilo, right away it had me think back to this photo I just saw recently....

IIRC, this photo was explained as a time-lapse shot of a crescent moon.

None of which detracts from a very informative OP.

Originally posted by spikedmilk
Very nice Camilo, right away it had me think back to this photo I just saw recently....

wow.. At first it almost looked like a time lapse photo of the moon traveling across the sky but I'm confused because the other stars are stationary.

[edit on 29-4-2008 by BlasteR]

reply to post by gottago


ROFL I just saw your post after I posted mine. That's hilarious!

reply to post by internos


It could have come from a military space shuttle, you know, from the secret air force (or is it navy?) space corps that supposedly was developed in tandem, or even beforehand? Just a thought. Could also explain incidents such as kecksburg....

reply to post by gottago


If thats the moon, I'm a Chinese fighter pilot. If it was time lapse there would be star streaks like this, no?:
education.nacse.org...

Maybe it's a flock of birds.....I always enjoyed that explanation. 20 years on a rural farm, hunting geese in the early morning or evening twilight, and many more than that staring at the sky, and not once have I seen a glowing flock of birds under any lighting or weather conditions.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by morthn1waytoskinacat]

Originally posted by MrPenny

Originally posted by Camilo1
The object had produced a trail of about 300 meters of depth by 500 of wide and 1.5 kilometers in length. The rocks nearby the crash site were melted.

[snip]

"our men have discovered the object and they have inspected it, we do not have instructions, is a metallic cylinder 12 feet long with some dents, nobody knows what is inside,

I'm having trouble with the description of the objects apparent path damage with the description of it's size. Heh? Possibly translation problems?

Thanks for your post.

No translation problems at all, the size of the path damage was confirmed by me from three sources, a big chunk of the mountain fell off. The doubt that I have is the size of the object, 12 feet was what the Bolivian Official said at the time, but other sources say the size of the craft was more close to 100 feet, 100 feet justifies the kind of damage produced on the mountain, 12 feet just doesn`t.

I saw a comment about this object being a piece of a Nasa shuttle or craft. Please remember that this object was almost intact after causing a small earthquake, a sonic explosion and shattering windows in a big area, and it brought all the rocks around to melting point.



[edit on 30-4-2008 by Camilo1]

reply to post by Camilo1


Yeah, not likely a shuttle piece of that size. No idea what that could be. If the Americans came and picked it up, what in the hell did they use to move something that size? And if it made that big of a dent in the landscape there has to be some evidence of it still there.....

maybe a satellite or part of a rocket or ICBM fell back to earth? There are possible explanations for why the U.S. military would get involved other than a UFO. Just thought I would point that out.

-ChriS

reply to post by Camilo1
Star and a FLAG like all great post this is another ONE that joggles the mind and rattles the thought .
Again here we have military involvement from that country and the other[??] countries always misleading and hiding the truth of the matter, and then disapearing like if nothing happened???
Again great post my friend.
Angelc01

reply to post by morthn1waytoskinacat

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
reply to post by gottago

 

If thats the moon, I'm a Chinese fighter pilot. If it was time lapse there would be star streaks like this, no?:
education.nacse.org...

Maybe it's a flock of birds.....I always enjoyed that explanation. 20 years on a rural farm, hunting geese in the early morning or evening twilight, and many more than that staring at the sky, and not once have I seen a glowing flock of birds under any lighting or weather conditions.

[edit on 30-4-2008 by morthn1waytoskinacat]

Not necessarily. Some telescopes have equatorial mounts which are automated and can track on any target. This telescope could have been set to track across with the stars as they moved across the sky.

(telescopes have this feature so that it is possible to take long time lapse photographs of cosmic objects like nebulas and star clusters etc..).

All they would have had to do is set up either a camera mount or use a CCD chip and take a short time lapse photo while the telescope tracked across the equatorial plane with the stars as the moon moved slightly. it wouldn't have taken much effort I don't think. That's why it was one of the first things I thought of.

-ChriS

[edit on 1-5-2008 by BlasteR]

It sounds to me it may have been something like this.

KH-9, codenamed HEXAGON, and popularly known as Big Bird, was a series of photographic reconnaissance satellites launched by the United States between 1971 and 1986. Of twenty launch attempts by the United States Air Force, all but one were successful. Camera film canisters aboard Big Bird was sent back to earth in a recoverable 'film return' capsules for processing and interpretation.

Officially known as the Broad Coverage Photo Reconnaissance satellites (Code 467), built by Lockheed Corporation for the US Air Force.
They were launched from Vandenberg AFB in a polar orbit.
en.wikipedia.org...

Just a "SWAG",but the way the U.S.Military were quickly on the scene of the crash........

[edit on 1-5-2008 by calcoastseeker]

[edit on 1-5-2008 by calcoastseeker]

[edit on 1-5-2008 by calcoastseeker]

reply to post by BlasteR


Was that tech available at that time, and if it was why would someone try to hoax with it, if even amateur astronomers would have access and be able to recognise it for what it was? Jes askin'
Does kinda look like the moon in timelapse, or one of those weird space worm phenomenon from the STS videos.....

Great post. I hadn't heard of this one either.

The object had produced a trail of about 300 meters of depth by 500 of wide and 1.5 kilometers in length. The rocks nearby the crash site were melted. The place was declared military zone;

is a metallic cylinder 12 feet long with some dents

The fact (if true) that it was cylindrical and 12 feet long leads me to believe it was either part of a rocket / cruise missile / ICBM or its payload as there are many that would match those specifications, no doubt. As an object of those dimensions falling out of they sky was very much within the specifications of what we had at that time.

However, I too am puzzled by the difference of dimensions and I can't fathom how an object 12 feet long width unsaid (assumed less than the length) , can produce a 500 meter wide path.

Unless most of the object had disintegrated as in it was some kind of secret bomb and the 12 foot long cylinder was the only remnant of that bomb or it was a sea launched rocket that went off course and still had fuel on board when it hit - which again acted like a bomb. After all that's why the closest anyone is allowed to watch a live launch is about 3+ miles - depending on the vehicle.

Maybe it even dropped its explosive payload and then landed in its crater after detonation.

If the object was larger such as something closer to being the width of the path it created after impact, I would be more inclined to believe it was not earth based. However at this point I see nothing that leads me to believe it is nothing but a known launch vehicle that failed and the fact that the U.S. military and/or NASA was present for the recovery leads me to believe this is so.

No offense meant to any South Americans, but at that time Bolivia was equivalent to a third world nation and it's occupants or even military would not have a clue what a rocket payload was and if Neil Armstrong were to step out of that cylinder with his flight suit and helmet on he would indeed be an Alien being to them.


[edit on 1-5-2008 by verylowfrequency]

reply to post by verylowfrequency


That's really what I was getting at earlier a few posts back. There are other explanations for U.S. military involvement that don't involve UFO's. Satellites, ICBM's, rockets, aircraft crashing, all kinds of possibilities. Just because something crashed, the U.S. military got involved, and something was taken off the site doesn't necessarily mean that it was a UFO. Personally I believe in UFO's but what is the real evidence that this wasn't something like a satellite or part of an ICBM.

Just to answer about the time lapse photo that was posted, I'm not sure what date the photo was taken. I'm not even sure if we should trust the date that is given (if there is one). These stars are tracked extremely well most likely by an automated equatorial mount like this:
nightskies.net...

without the automated unit it is possible to get time lapse photos but tracking the stars across the sky whilst doing so would be extremely difficult (but still possible I guess). The problem is that if someone was moving the telescope manually (by hand) the stars would obviously be slightly fuzzy due to the slight wobble that would be created. What date is this photo supposedly taken? If someone were using a manual equatorial mount it is possible that someone could manually track the stars across the sky but it is extremely unlikely that it would be this clean.

Looking at the moon's distance of movement it is possible to calculate pretty accurately the exposure time. The moon, in astronomical terms, is about .5 degrees in diameter. Using this as a guide, it would be possible to measure how far the moon traveled in degrees (in this exposure) and, therefore, you could calculate how long the moon was actually exposed (and, therefore, how long the actual exposure was).

The movement of the moon we actually see is 95% due to earth's rotation and 5% due to the moon moving itself. Combine the two and the moon travels approximately 1 of it's diameters in an hour across the sky. this means that this exposure would have had to have been extremely long we're talking hours.. Highly unlikely that someone was manually keeping the telescope aligned with the rotating stars (however with a manual equatorial mount it isn't completely impossible). IMO this was an automated unit due to the complete lack of any movement at all of the background stars.

-ChriS



[edit on 1-5-2008 by BlasteR]

Good work, Camilo1!
(and thanks for the U2U)

That page from Geocities you posted is part of a site with more UFO pages (main entrance here), and at least one of them is also related with this case.

In that page (we can see some photos from newspapers and some maps that will help understand this case (I think ).

Sketch showing the region where until that moment it was assumed that the UFO fell.

This is my attempt to recreate that sketch with satellite images.

What I find strange in this is that, as far as I know, most (if not all) satellites and other objects sent to space are sent in a mostly West-East direction, while this sketch shows more of polar orbit (if this was in orbit) and in a East-West direction.

On that page it also says that the Bolivian Scientific Committee had concluded their investigations saying that the object fell in Argentinian territory.

And this is also something strange; apparently nobody could be sure where it fell, and some pages say that cerro El Zaire is in Bolivia while others say that it is in Argentina.



PS: I did not see any reference in any of those pages in Spanish to the shape being that of a bottle, have you seen any?

reply to post by ArMaP


Hi Armap

Thanks for your post, your opinions are always very important to me.

This is where I got the bottle shape from:

Policeman Juan Hurtado had also seen what had happened: "It looked like a gigantic wine container emitting a trace of white smoke. I saw it clearly. It flew directly above my head. I was on duty and at that moment was talking with three engineers from the mine in La Paz, when we saw the object crashing into the El Taire mountain. The impact was so strong that it threw me to the ground. The earth trembled at that moment."

Regarding the New York cylinder image I think it would help if it was shown in it's original context as below.




Source

The picture was reported as being taken in 1950 and was included in Project Blue Book and Project Grudge.

I am not sure if electrical tracking was common at that time but it's precurser was probably still being used, ie clockwork.

However I believe it was not known what exposure was used.

Also I am not sure whether it was common practice to use a tracking device on ordinary camera work as opposed to telescope astrophotography.

No proof, just speculation as always.

Originally posted by Teki187
No proof, just speculation as always.

And I am just speculating on what you thought you was communicating with that one liner.

No proof of what ?

That the event did not take place in 1978 ?

That there was no witnesses ?

That the event was not published in local media ?

That there was no involvment by the Bolivian Airforce ?

The list goes on so if you think you are achieving anything I would suggest only confusion.