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YouTube video raises concerns about Bragg barracks

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posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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I know that people have to deal with what they have and may be forced to live in conditions they would not live in otherwise. But these are army barracks that are given to soldiers to live in (for free) because they are a valuable resources for the army and need living quarters on post (I know in the air force dorms are usually given to single low-ranking airmen. Others can get BAH housing allowances to live off base).

Never have I seen conditions like this, however, I also was in the air force for 6 years and our dorms and facilities in general were always well maintained and beautiful.

Some dorms on Fort Bragg are probably hunky dory while others, like this, are becoming so worn down and ill-maintained that the living conditions are deplorable and unsafe and the building is literally falling apart. In other words, some people are having to live like this while the lucky others don't have to worry about it. I'm sure this probably isn't the only example either, this is just the one that has gotten public attention in the press.

The simple fact that it would get that far, while army personnel are still living there (not to mention sergeants), is simply ridiculous and inexcusable. The Army has the personnel and resources to maintain these buildings but chose not to do so probably because the soldiers are moving to brand new dorms soon and attention was not where it should be. That argument could be made however these soldiers probably did complain time after time (how could you not with 3 inches of crap and piss filling the lower floor). IMO it points to people not doing their jobs.

Hopefully after the soldiers are moved to the new dorms (the same new dorms the cnn video showed) those facilities will be properly maintained and the living conditions won't go down the tubes. The newer buildings are much easier for the army to maintain.




posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 07:46 PM
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reply to post by BlasteR
 


I think the septic problem is being used to blow this whole thing out of proportion. Systems fail, especially after they haven't been used in fifteen months. That problem was probably fixed within a day or two. Anyone who has owned a home for a while has probably had their spetic back up once or twice, or even had to get the tank replaced.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 11:31 PM
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I haven't been to fort bragg so I cannot actually attest to what is truthfully going on. Up here in alaska sewer lines freeze all the time and people are forced to deal with situations just like the one in this video. You are right. It happens ALL THE TIME. But If you read all the problems this building has you begin to see that this building is ancient and probably never got the maintenance it really needed to sustain it's septic and plumbing systems. Combine that with sewer gases freely entering the building through open pipes, lead-based paint falling off the wall everywhere, the ridiculous plumbing situation that the father talked about in his video, and the rest of the issues that really weren't discussed and you begin to see what really happened.

This old piece of crap building was not maintained well enough period. Attention of those in charge was on other more pressing issues (supposedly). Which doesn't really make sense.. It sounds more to me like people were ignored. You can't tell me that for 15 months noone stepped foot into that building. If they didn't then people were not doing their job. They knew when these soldiers were coming back and they should've done their jobs.

I truly don't know how many buildings are in such horrible condition nor does it really matter IMO. These are troops who are serving our country and they deserve much more than they are getting...



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 01:47 AM
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To JimmyJackBlack and JackInTheBox:

That's all well and good and I understand that everything is relative, but let me ask both of you this. Were either of you serving your country when you lived like that? Were you out risking your ass every minute of the day so that everyone back home, from your friends & family right down to the people you didn't even know could live in freedom? Had you just returned from a foreign land clear across the world where you considered it a good day if nobody got blown up by an improvised explosive device? I sincerely doubt that either of you did. What you provided for yourselves may have been a huge pile of crap that you both overpaid for and were satisfied with, but we're talking about young men who are providing not for themselves, but for America as a whole and at least to me that means a lot more. It means they deserve better than this and they deserve better than both of you did, if you catch my drift.

Its damn sad to consider that if we had some piece of utter trash like a rapist, molestor, or murderer held in conditions anywhere near this the outcry would be deafening. However, when it happens to our troops its met with a shrug and a passing comment like "at least they have a roof over their heads." This country's supermax prisons are safer (clearly I'm talking about from a structural/environmental sense, not from a "the guy in the cell next to you ate his family" sense), cleaner, and more comfortable than this hole I just saw on the video. It's freaking pathetic. They are out there risking their lives so we don't have to and this is their repayment? Shamefull.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


I completely agree..

-ChriS



posted on May, 1 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 



It means they deserve better than this and they deserve better than both of you did, if you catch my drift.


And you sir, are an *SNP*. I happen to have worked in uniformed service for several years up until fairly recently. If you don't think that keeping people safe and secure right here in America deserving of descent living conditions, then you are twice the fool, if you catch my drift. No one "deserves" anything more than anyone else, and no one is special.

What about the children who are forced to live in conditions worse than this? Children in foster homes, and state homes even.



What you provided for yourselves may have been a huge pile of crap that you both overpaid for and were satisfied with, but we're talking about young men who are providing not for themselves, but for America as a whole and at least to me that means a lot more.


First of all, no one ever said anything about being satisfied with anything. Second of all, I would hardly call it overpaying when you happen to rent one of the cheapest apartments in the county, but still can't afford to keep the power turned on, or the oil for heat.



Were you out risking your ass every minute of the day so that everyone back home, from your friends & family right down to the people you didn't even know could live in freedom?


Those men, including my brother, are not fighting for freedom. They are fighting for a paycheck since there are no jobs left here in America that are worth a damn. My grandfathers fought for freedom. My brother fights for himself, and the stability of the dollar in global oil markets.



Had you just returned from a foreign land clear across the world where you considered it a good day if nobody got blown up by an improvised explosive device?


And you have no idea what services and sacrifices I have made to this country.

*SNIP*

MODERATOR-NOTE: Please refrain from vulgarity and personal insult on ATS. Thank you.

[edit on 2-5-2008 by Skyfloating]



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 12:54 AM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


The stabillity of the US dollar is a large part of our freedom. Your insult at the end was quite cute and endearing. I appreciate the fact that you made yourself seem far less sympathetic in my eyes and made me actually not care what plight you currently find yourself in. "Uniformed service?" That covers a wide range of possible fields, from mail carrier to ticket jockey all the way up to military man. My money says you weren't in the military overseas or else you wouldn't have relied on your brother and his service to make your point. Firsthand trumps hearsay everytime.

My original points stand.

Sincerely
~The Orifice



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 



The stabillity of the US dollar is a large part of our freedom.


This much I agree with, but now you have to go back to how the country found itself in this predicament to start with, that the dollar would be placed in such a precarious position that it might take a World War to sustain it.



My money says you weren't in the military overseas or else you wouldn't have relied on your brother and his service to make your point.


I used my brother to make the point, since he is the one eating sand at the moment.



"Uniformed service?" That covers a wide range of possible fields, from mail carrier to ticket jockey all the way up to military man.


Yes it does doesn't it.

EDIT to add:



...and made me actually not care what plight you currently find yourself in.


I am not here for pity or sympathy.

[edit on 5/2/0808 by jackinthebox]



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 01:54 AM
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This whole situation just makes me want to vomit. A man I'd known since I was born died at the age of 87 early this week and the one good thing about it is that he didn't hear this story. He actually helped build a lot of these buildings at Fort Bragg, and he was very proud of it and always loved to tell people about it. I know if he had seen this embarrassing video it would have just broken his heart.



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 12:31 PM
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I would like to reiterate my overall position here. I do not feel that it is appropriate for our troops to be living under such conditions. Furthermore, I would like to know who was responsible for maintaining the building.

But as I have also clerly stated. This is not the terrible and shocking issue that is being spun, unless these men were denied requests for cleaning and maintenance supplies, and if the Army refused to have the septic problem repaired.



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 01:07 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by burdman30ott6
 



It means they deserve better than this and they deserve better than both of you did, if you catch my drift.


And you sir, are an ignorant fool. I happen to have worked in uniformed service for several years up until fairly recently. If you don't think that keeping people safe and secure right here in America deserving of descent living conditions, then you are twice the fool, if you catch my drift. No one "deserves" anything more than anyone else, and no one is special.

What about the children who are forced to live in conditions worse than this? Children in foster homes, and state homes even.


I'll give you this one. I used the wrong word. These men have earned better. Also no, I don't catch your drift. Your "keeping people safe" comment had a sunbject, but no predicate, so please clarify. What you seem to be advocating is some form of communism with man's humanity and uniqueness removed and everyone recieving the same reward, regardless their contribution. Major kudos for throwing in the attempted emotional connotations surrounding mentioning needy children. Try to stay on the topic at hand, please. I didn't say the soldiers deserved better than homeless kids, I said they deserved better than whatever hole in the wall YOU chose to live in.



posted on May, 2 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 



Your "keeping people safe" comment had a sunbject, but no predicate, so please clarify.


Well, perhaps you can think about it for a few minutes while I go look up the word "sunbject."



What you seem to be advocating is some form of communism with man's humanity and uniqueness removed and everyone recieving the same reward, regardless their contribution.


I suggested no such thing.



I didn't say the soldiers deserved better than homeless kids, I said they deserved better than whatever hole in the wall YOU chose to live in.


But if you want to go down that road, then maybe those soldiers should have chosen a better line of work.


Let me show you a little something about choices in America today, since you are obviously quite ignorant...



...and keep in mind, that even people living at the poverty line still pay taxes to support our troops and this war.

In this thread I address the myth that "Poor people don't pay taxes."



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 12:58 AM
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This is beyond deplorable...these soldiers deserve to come back to a palace, not some rathole that's not fit for section 8 housing. I seriously can't believe it. But it should be no surprises given the terrible condition of our infrastructure in the US. Public schools...it's laughable the condition they're in - leakay rooves, textbooks from 1958, lead paint and asbestos insulation. Hell, my university cost $40,000 a year to attend in 2002 and the freshman dorm next to mine had BEDBUGS. That's right, $40,000 a year bedbugs. I think it's all part of the same problem. But the soldiers, above everyone else deserve better.

Just where is all that money going anyway?



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 01:19 AM
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reply to post by sc2099
 



Just where is all that money going anyway?


Congress was asking Rumsfeld that very question the day before 9/11, when he admitted that the Pentagon could not account for about a third of our entire national debt.



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 03:10 AM
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Have a cry you bitches. I thought that kind of stuff was pretty much normal. 8 weeks without a shower? My great uncle dropped in north africa and faced rommel. Did they complain about things being 'dirty', # no. Bust out those silver spoons.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by seenitall]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 03:14 AM
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And if its so #ing bad why dont they grow some brains and fix that # themselves. Seriously if you rely on everyone else for everything, you gonna get #ed. Those that aren't silver spooner #s would understand.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by seenitall]



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 04:24 AM
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Wow seenitall, did your great uncle come home to stand in sewerage up to his ankles?

Oh, the barracks were new then?



posted on May, 3 2008 @ 04:36 AM
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Well it costs a lot when you have a lot of barracks and you have to pay I forget something along the lines of $200.00 for nuts and bolts. It is really sad that the people who are risking their lives for a war that is not even theirs have to live in such disgusting environments. They are regular people just like everyone else, and the government is spending more money to fund illegal aliens then their own army.



posted on May, 4 2008 @ 11:45 PM
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Originally posted by seenitall
And if its so #ing bad why dont they grow some brains and fix that # themselves. Seriously if you rely on everyone else for everything, you gonna get #ed. Those that aren't silver spooner #s would understand.

[edit on 3-5-2008 by seenitall]



You're forgetting that these soldiers work ridiculous hours and although they probably have some time that they could spare to "upgrade" the facility so to speak, it would be unsafe and they could be reprimanded for doing so. In some cases it could also be seen as vandalism (that's just how the government works). Nor are these guys qualified nor do they have the equipment to be dealing with such ridiuclous plumbing issues and lead paint everywhere. I understand what you are saying but that's not actually that applicable here.

This building was built in 1942 and you just expect a couple of soldiers to suddenly get this facility back up and working in a jiffy? The entire reason this is a huge news story isn't just because of the conditions but because nothing was done by those in charge when something should have been done. Can you answer for them? NO

And why would these soldiers who had just gotten home from Iraq want to do nothing but work full time in their military job during the day, fix up the buildings for hours at night, and sleep in lead-based paint flakes while the sewer gases leak into their rooms? Yes sometimes you need to step up and be self-sufficient, but this building is so far gone that these guys shouldn't have been expected to don chemsuits and remove the lead-based paint that is constantly falling off. That logic is a little ridiculous. Especially since these guys have served our country honorably in 10x worse conditions in Afghanistan. Our military dropped the ball.

This building should have been condemned far before it got that bad.

-ChriS

[edit on 5-5-2008 by BlasteR]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 01:06 AM
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Well, I agree that this is despicable and they do deserve better. Somebody either doesn't care or just dropped the ball.

Kudos to the father who stood up and made an issue of it.

However the toilet seat and some of the paint issues are really not that bad.

A toilet seat can be purchased for $5-20 at any home improvement store and takes 5 minutes to replace. Fix the Damn thing and submit the receipt. They spent more effort cutting cardboard and wrapping electrical tape than it would have taken to do it right.

The open plumbing can be capped off with a couple dollar caps. Rent a high powered snake for the weekend and clear out the drains. Unless they're completely collapsed, that should do the trick till they find other housing for them.

One weekend of scraping and another of painting. I'm sure they can get the Army to cough up some paint - I know the Navy would.

As far as comparing their living quarters with convicts - well I guarantee you convicts can't go to Walmart or Home Depot to buy $5 replacement toilet seat besides I think most institutional toilets are one piece without seats otherwise they'd become weapons.

Unfortunately the big boyz running the show don't see Army dogs that much further up the food chain than the cons as both are slaves, one just gets paid has more respect and gets leave every once an awhile.

Sad yeah, a travesty?? that's pushing it.


[edit on 5-5-2008 by verylowfrequency]




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