I held out until recently getting DSL from Pioneer for this reason, that they are a monopoly. I realize now that we just should have stayed with dial-up because, in my opinion, it is not much faster, especially during certain times of the day. When a person is promised a certain speed for a certain amount of $$, then that should be at least 95% of the time, not say, 10%. That is what we are experiencing and we, I mean my son and I, who uses a lot of bandwidth playing video games, downloading, etc. Pioneer's excuse is that if you are sharing a connection, that one computer can make the other computer slower because of what the other one is doing. What the heck? It just doesn't seem right. If this is how it's supposed to work, please put me in my place, because as I see it, Pioneer is the ONLY DSL company there is in my city of Newcastle, Oklahoma, and they should be giving me the speed package I purchased, all the time, not just when they want to give me that speed.

First off..thanks to all who have brought this problem with Pioneer DSL to light.

I live in Grandfield,close to the border of Texas. I've had Pioneer DSL for three years..I have one phone and the DSL line..no DTV service.
I first started noticing problems about six months back or so.Watching any streaming videos has become very frustrating. Where there were no problems before..now watching a thirty minute streaming video is interrupted every few minutes with pauses for buffering..that's if it doesn't stop completely part of the way through.Even a three minute or less Yahoo news clip is interrupted at least once during viewing.

From what I gather from this forum..calling Pioneer is a lost cause..but i will just to add my complaint to the many already lodged with them.

btw..Pioneer had dug up the streets here a few years back and laid fiber optic cable throughout..and I'm only two blocks from the central distribution office here in town.

Again..thanks to all who have contributed to this forum to let others know they are not alone with this problem.

I'm in Blanchard, Oklahoma (also on PLDI) and my latency was hovering around 600-700ms in WoW last night as has been for a while (that i've noticed). I think every now and then I get down into the green (

I have been a customer of Pioneer Telephone in Comanche, OK for about four years. At times I have been somewhat satisfied with the DSL service, but there have been long periods where I become extremely frustrated. I can tell you that here in Comanche, OK it FEELS like a monopoly. There was a cable TV company here 5 years ago, soon after I moved here Pioneer bought the company, shut down the service, and removed all of the wiring and equipment. Pioneer is truly the only option if you want TV or internet through wiring and into your home. I have a bad view of the southern sky, so satellite is not an option(I tried Dish, and even they agreed my signal strength was ridiculously low, i would lose the signal on CLOUDY days). The only wireless option is, guess who, Pioneer.....and only if you are in an area NOT served by their DSL service. As a gamer, I have no choice but to pay the 50 bucks a month and then have months at a time go by where I cant play online because my latency is so high the xboxlive servers drop me. I've heard about the bottleneck in Texas, the IPTV issue, and other possible causes, but now, in june of 2009, I can't even get a good download from their HQ in Kingfisher. the connection constantly stops and starts. I cant even stream MUSIC, forget abot video. I did a speed test from Fort Worth and got 240K. this goes on all day, and there are about 4 hours where the connection is decent, from about 1 to 5AM. Damn me for having to get up and go to work in the mornings! They truly dont seem to care. I'm supposed to get 3mb down and 628k up. Never happens.I could ramble on and on but I'd probably start going in circles. Big Price, Bad Product, NO OTHER OPTION. Call it what you want......

I will bet that the areas that are having problems are areas where AT&T has
AT&T wireless Internet service.

You are in a turf war where AT&T wireless Internet is trying to build customer base by choking there competition.

I lived in a area of Calif where Verizon was the phone company and all the local Internet companies were dial-up (too small of towns spread over to large of a area for cable companies to ever string cable.)

When Verizon started offering Internet all the dial up Internet companies started have problems with there system hanging up and taking 20 to 30 minutes to reconnect.

We traced all the problems to Verizon adjusting there phone company switching units to cut off the dial up so that people would switch to Verizon internet at between twice and three times the cost.

Originally posted by mover2k
I have been a customer of Pioneer Telephone in Comanche, OK for about four years. At times I have been somewhat satisfied with the DSL service, but there have been long periods where I become extremely frustrated. I can tell you that here in Comanche, OK it FEELS like a monopoly. There was a cable TV company here 5 years ago, soon after I moved here Pioneer bought the company, shut down the service, and removed all of the wiring and equipment. Pioneer is truly the only option if you want TV or internet through wiring and into your home. I have a bad view of the southern sky, so satellite is not an option(I tried Dish, and even they agreed my signal strength was ridiculously low, i would lose the signal on CLOUDY days). The only wireless option is, guess who, Pioneer.....and only if you are in an area NOT served by their DSL service. As a gamer, I have no choice but to pay the 50 bucks a month and then have months at a time go by where I cant play online because my latency is so high the xboxlive servers drop me. I've heard about the bottleneck in Texas, the IPTV issue, and other possible causes, but now, in june of 2009, I can't even get a good download from their HQ in Kingfisher. the connection constantly stops and starts. I cant even stream MUSIC, forget abot video. I did a speed test from Fort Worth and got 240K. this goes on all day, and there are about 4 hours where the connection is decent, from about 1 to 5AM. Damn me for having to get up and go to work in the mornings! They truly dont seem to care. I'm supposed to get 3mb down and 628k up. Never happens.I could ramble on and on but I'd probably start going in circles. Big Price, Bad Product, NO OTHER OPTION. Call it what you want......

mover! Glad to see you here contributing to the discussion as we have spoken via email about this over the past year or so.

I actually stopped playing a couple of months ago, so I only having "surfing" analysis to contribute but I can support what you're saying from that viewpoint. About a month ago service went in the crapper again. I actually thought to myself last week "i bet there's no way I could be playing my toon these days", so you have confirmed to me that everything went south again.

Also, you are confirming that they are right back to their old game of throttling during certain hours of the day if your service actually gets better from 1 to 5 am, but then during primetime goes to hell. That's just how it was before when I started this thread!

I fear we're just the poster children for what is yet to come for more of the country...P2P users will suffer greatly if this practice spreads.

[edit on 6-30-2009 by Valhall]

Originally posted by mdiinican
Heh, a monopoly? Hardly. You can still get dial-up, you can still get cell-wireless internet, and you can still get satellite. You can't expect other internet and TV providers to come in and construct their own superior infrastructure just in the name of good competition; it isn't profitable.

How can I say "you haven't got a clue what you're talking about" in a nice way???

Oh, I can't. There, it's said.

[edit on 6-30-2009 by Valhall]

We have Pionner for 3 years now, we cannot get Broadband or Dsl, your choice is dial up, or Sattelite with about 3 companies were I live. My friends use the other 2 options of Sattelite, I use Pioneer, and we all have the same issue, not able to connect or you connect just to be dropped.

I have called Pionner so many times I need to work for them to improve there Customer Service with that being said, they seem to first blame it on my old computer, then I bought a new one, then it was my old router, got a new one, then it was my sattelite tv which I do not get threw them, Thank goddness. Then finally they blamed it on my phone. So I called my phone company, they sent a Rep out and checked the lines, and said no it was not them, then I called or sattelite Tv people, and the also checked out everything and said it was not them, called HP to check my computer even though it was new to be sure they were not to blame, once again A ok, then called the router folks to be sure my router was configured right and it was. So with all this information I called again to be told, nothing was wrong on there end, however during the day at any given time we drop AND we can just be reading email, or in my case I am looking for a job, so need to be able to stay connected. The upspeed and download speed vary all the time, and it no were close to what they said I would have on the low end. The last t ime I called they just hung up and did not want to hear it.

After much research on I found out many people have the same issue and get the same when they call, not Pionner problem it is on there end. So we all disconnected everything except there web service to prove a theory, we now use them hardwired in not threw a router like they want to blame on, and guess what same issue, no phone interfrance cause we removed them, no router, and the TV sattelite was turned off, which all of us have threw another carrier.

I am just hoping we get DSL out here cause when they do, I am so getting rid of Pioneer Internet to have somewhat better service, cause when I lived in the city it was great, once and while had a hicup but not every hour on the hour....Go Figure, I just wonder if there can be anything brought against Pionner for awful service, they sure can take your money, and turn you off if you do not pay, however why pay for a service we are not getting.

Sounds like we need to start up an internet service in OK and rake in the dodo.


Can I get some investors? I mean I don't wanna front my money, I am more of the idea guy. Ya know wha' I mean?

Where to start?

In regards to the link to your house.
The DSL modem is running at a far higher data rate than is allotted to your internet access.
A DSL modem can not shift on the fly depending on how much (fill in the blank) needs.
To change speeds, it needs to reboot and re-establish the connection.
The balancing/partitioning of data flow from the static pipe is software based.

With DSL there is always transmission errors, that require error correction or retransmission of data.
If noise increases, and you have to have more retransmissions, then those retransmissions cut into the available downstream bandwidth.

You have a choice. Do you have the bandwidth management software take the reduction in available bandwidth from the internet side, or the DTV side.

If the DTV side has some spare link capacity then you can use that for retransmissions of DTV data that had uncorrectable errors.

And in that choice, you don’t really have a choice, if the DTV pipe is already full. DTV is a real time continuous data stream. You can’t pause it. The internet side is interactive. It can handle slow downs. So it is the internet side that gets throttled back to deal with transmission link problems.

On the backbone issue
There is on network, an off network.

The DTV services are located on the network you are on.
They are being provided to you by pioneer.

The internet access is off network.
The connection to that relies on the bandwidth they purchase from upstream providers to support the load.

If you are having high latency and poor internet connectivity at peak times, they are not purchasing enough bandwidth from their upstream provider. Depending on how many GB per second the projected peak is verses the limited amount, you can calculate how much they are saving a month by letting capacity hit the hard limit instead of having enough extra capacity to have spare capacity during the peak times.

Example: If they need an additional 5GB per second to have headroom during the highest peaks, they may be saving $25,000 a month by not buying that capacity.

If the first tracert you posted.

1 13 ms 11 ms 12 ms 10.11.0.1
2 14 ms 11 ms 17 ms 208-117-3-209.block5.gvtc.com [208.117.3.209]
3 12 ms 12 ms 12 ms 208-117-3-198.block5.gvtc.com [208.117.3.198]
4 11 ms 10 ms 12 ms 208-117-2-5.block5.gvtc.com [208.117.2.5]
5 14 ms 15 ms 12 ms 208-117-2-18.block5.gvtc.com [208.117.2.18]
6 324 ms 333 ms 339 ms 12.116.42.213
7 391 ms 406 ms 383 ms tbr2.hs1tx.ip.att.net [12.123.134.46]

That looks line the provider is not purchasing enough capacity form upstream.
In the second tracert.

51 ms 50 ms 50 ms 65-255-64-1.dyn.hsi.pldi.net [65.255.64.1]
2 192 ms 243 ms 355 ms docgw-portchan10.pldi.net [64.250.192.1]
3 88 ms 86 ms 86 ms so-10-3.hsa1.Dallas1.Level3.net [209.246.148.185]
4 81 ms 94 ms 88 ms vlan52.csw2.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.68.122.62]
5 203 ms 318 ms 234 ms ae-23-79.car3.Dallas1.Level3.net [4.68.19.69]
6 79 ms 81 ms 81 ms level3-gw.dlstx.ip.att.net [192.205.34.137]

There is no problem.
That 203 to 318 on the second hop isn’t actual time. Notice the hop after it is returning at around 81 ms It can’t get to point six without passing point 5 first. The reason for the 200 to 300 ms hop is the router is just being a bit slow at returning pings, it isn’t actually taking that long to pass traffic. When ever you see a downstream hop returning faster than the closer hop, then you can ignore the time on the closer hop because the router is not returning pings in a timely manner.

In the third tracert, I can’t tell because he didn’t include enough jumps.

Here is something I wished I had though of sooner. Back when I had dial up I was only getting half of what I was paying for. I ran new phone line from my computer to the phone company box on the side of the house. It doubled my speed. Check the phone in your house. It could be that simple.