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Intelligent Falling : Evangelical scientist refutes gravity

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posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 08:01 AM
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Haha, i have to really take my hat of for this article from the onion.com (a comedy fake news website)


"Things fall not because they are acted upon by some gravitational force, but because a higher intelligence, 'God' if you will, is pushing them down," said Gabriel Burdett, who holds degrees in education, applied Scripture, and physics from Oral Roberts University.

"Let's take a look at the evidence," said ECFR senior fellow Gregory Lunsden."In Matthew 15:14, Jesus says, 'And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.' He says nothing about some gravity making them fall—just that they will fall. Then, in Job 5:7, we read, 'But mankind is born to trouble, as surely as sparks fly upwards.' If gravity is pulling everything down, why do the sparks fly upwards with great surety? This clearly indicates that a conscious intelligence governs all falling."

Traditional scientists admit that they cannot explain how gravitation is supposed to work," Carson said. "What the gravity-agenda scientists need to realize is that 'gravity waves' and 'gravitons' are just secular words for 'God can do whatever He wants.'"


Scientists have never witnessed the existance of a graviton (which is a particle in an atom that gives it it's gravity) but they know they must exist, because otherwise things would not have gravity.

So gravity is still a theory, and since religious people ignorantly choose to not take theories as evidence of something, i propose all christians , id-ers and creationists defy gravity by sheer faith, and all float up to heaven.


while all this is a joke, the exact same thing is happening with the Scientific Theory of Evolution. I hope i made my point.

I hope this makes some iD-ers or young earth/creationist believers question thier stance on the issue of denying evolution, which is, to the rest of the world very real , no matter how hard you don't want it to be.



Edit: spelling

[edit on 28-4-2008 by XyZeR]




posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 09:14 AM
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Making jokes about religion (Only Christianity for most) is ALL some 'people' seem to spend time doing.
What point COULD this make, except either fool dull-witted people, or MAYBE cause people to question EVERY concept of science we hold dear.
Oh noes!
Questioning science!
The same science that said hormone replacement therapy was great, lobotomies were super-useful for depression (I knew a guy who had 11 shock therapy treatments for mental disorders in 1991!) and DDT was great???
Why question the basics? Everything pretty much will fall apart if we do?
If ya'll can't find simpletons on the chatrooms to quote and laugh at, you have to make up something.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 10:04 AM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
Questioning science!
The same science that said hormone replacement therapy was great, lobotomies were super-useful for depression (I knew a guy who had 11 shock therapy treatments for mental disorders in 1991!) and DDT was great???


You think science is one common entity? The same science that said this and that... never heard something so ridiculous. What are you saying realy? that science was wrong in the cases you mentioned, and therefore may be wrong in EVERY case?



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by Clearskies
Making jokes about religion (Only Christianity for most) is ALL some 'people' seem to spend time doing.
What point COULD this make, except either fool dull-witted people, or MAYBE cause people to question EVERY concept of science we hold dear.
Oh noes!
Questioning science!
The same science that said hormone replacement therapy was great, lobotomies were super-useful for depression (I knew a guy who had 11 shock therapy treatments for mental disorders in 1991!) and DDT was great???
Why question the basics? Everything pretty much will fall apart if we do?
If ya'll can't find simpletons on the chatrooms to quote and laugh at, you have to make up something.


Making uneducated unsupported unscientific claims about evolution from a religious perspective is all christian people seem to do, in stead of doing acts like Jesus... feeding the poor, helping the needy...etc which is what religion IS and should be about.

What point could this make ? The point you refuse to see, that the evolution vs creationism discussion is RIDICULOUS ! just as ridiculous as the above joke from the onion.com The analogy is perfect.

I have no question in "questioning" everything out there, heck that's what keeps science going, but really questioning things, not understanding them and then saying "god Did It" is all to easy. And dangerous. Plus, it's a political issue, not a scientific or religious one.

The same religion which has killed millions in it's name (inquisition anyone ?), the same religion that wants you to accept paranoral events as they were normal (talking bushes, flying angels, resurrections,etc) the same religion which by it's rules creates legions of sexually depreved/frustrated priests. I could go on with numerous attrocities religion has caused.

See all you arguments work both ways.

And yeah the science that cured me personally from a deadly disease, that put us on the moon, that makes you able to post from you home computer, and so much much much more....

Science (from the Latin scientia, meaning "knowledge") is knowledge, knowledge is power.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 10:11 AM
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Originally posted by XyZeR

The same religion which has killed millions in it's name (inquisition anyone ?),


Why don't you look up MY inquisiton thread and make a comment on it?
It's the ONLY one I've seen since I've been here and SOO few people even commented!
Catholic inquisitions, will there be more?



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 10:16 AM
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It's called the LAW of Gravity, and the THEORY of evolution. Adjust views accordingly.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 10:19 AM
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I really don't believe in either evolution or creationism.

I wonder which one I should choose, all life coming from a huge explosion and developing over millions of years, or some omnipotent being that just snapped his fingers and we were here.

Both theories are equally stupid, and each has evidence yes, but neither can be proven.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 10:45 AM
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if you look into (sacred) geometry and the genesis creation story, there is nothing conflicting scientifically about it.
Think of genesis as a metaphor for the first point, line, shape, then the shape moves(spins) and creates a sphere which in turn creates another sphere which in turn leads to all of the possible events in all of any universe.
Here is a site that explains a little better detail with pictures.
www.mendhak.com...

my point is, the christian bible does not contradict science, its interpretation does. Originally, they knew about the geometrical allegory, which is why science and religion didn't always conflict each other.

Genesis comes from the torah, and the Jewish mystics could tell you all about the mathematics behind the construction of Genesis. Its not just a story.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 11:16 AM
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Although I'm a creationist, I can still be a good sport- especially with an analogy that has as many flaws as the OP's article and the comic below contain. Might as well fight silliness with silliness. For your viewing pleasure:





[edit on 4/28/2008 by AshleyD]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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So gravity is still a theory, and since religious people ignorantly choose to not take theories as evidence of something, i propose all christians , id-ers and creationists defy gravity by sheer faith, and all float up to heaven


OK then by this same line of thinking. Since belief in God is said by atheists to be just faith , and since atheists ignorantly refuse to accept faith as evidence of something, I purpose all atheists defy faith by sheer logic and prove God does not exist.





[edit on 4/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 05:50 PM
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Look chap, Gravity doesn't need you to believe in it. Just as evolution doesn't.

Believe whatever unscientific views you want but dont ever try and force your views onto me, for that's when we start having a problem.

Side note: I dont usually like the onion, but I have to admit their sense of satire is improving...



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 02:00 AM
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Originally posted by AshleyD
Although I'm a creationist, I can still be a good sport- especially with an analogy that has as many flaws as the OP's article and the comic below contain. Might as well fight silliness with silliness. For your viewing pleasure:





[edit on 4/28/2008 by AshleyD]


this is for your viewing pleasure




posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 02:09 AM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot
It's called the LAW of Gravity, and the THEORY of evolution. Adjust views accordingly.


the only law of gravity is that it exists and acts upon matter. The inner workings of it's nature and mechanics are purely theoretical. Scientists and SR believe that gravity pulls objects towards each other.

The person in the article believes that gravity pushes rather than pulls things towards each other. There is nothing wrong with that.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 08:14 AM
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OK then by this same line of thinking. Since belief in God is said by atheists to be just faith , and since atheists ignorantly refuse to accept faith as evidence of something,
[edit on 4/28/2008 by Bigwhammy]


Wow , just wow !

SO let me get this straight (and let me strap in for a second)
by your way of thinking (or lack thereof) :faith= evidence

LOL, that's to far out there. I'm to flabbergasted to even come up with a response to such unbelievable statements.


I purpose all atheists defy faith by sheer logic and prove God does not exist


Sorry, i must have missed a meeting apparently....

The rules of logic and science indicate that there must be some kind of basis (either in substance or in thought) for an assertion or else it must be denied.

An assertion, without evidence, is not accepted as true. That is the default position, the position that defines what critical thought is.

Critical thought means not believing things you are told unless there is evidence to back it up. And without critical thought, logic and science are abandoned, and this is the only kind of productive thought humanity has ever come up with. To reject critical thought is to turn one’s back on thinking and embrace the Dark Ages, where religion was the most powerful tool to keep the majority of the people dumb, and afraid.

Logical statements have to abide by certain rules and restrictions. In order for a statement to be logical, it must be falsifiable, which means that it has to be presented in such a way that it could be proven incorrect. A statement is not logical if it cannot be tested to make sure it is true. The existence of God is not a logical question at all, and is therefore nonsensical. Of course you can’t prove that God doesn’t exist – no one even knows what God is supposed to be.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 08:30 AM
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So does this means that the next time somebody is falling from a building is because God pushed them to fall faster/.

I can not stop laughing at this one.

Sometimes I wonder how the propaganda goes around, if this thread is to make Christians look silly then it did its job.

But please we should be mindful of the intelligence and reasoning of all our fellow human beings. The article is obviously a Joke.

Ashley that comic strip just made my day.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by XyZeR
 



by your way of thinking faith= evidence
]

When the concept of the atom was first proposed did they have electron microscopes they could see it with? No it was quite along time before they could verify any of it as a matter of fact. Faith is the evidence of things unseen.



Sorry, i must have missed a meeting apparently....


Yes you did... this whole thread is a joke. You got a tongue and cheek response and took it way too seriously. Wooooooooooosh right over your head.

[edit on 4/29/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by XyZeR

Scientists have never witnessed the existance of a graviton (which is a particle in an atom that gives it it's gravity) but they know they must exist, because otherwise things would not have gravity.

[edit on 28-4-2008 by XyZeR]



This is the most ironic part of the whole post. You realize of course that Einstein argues against the presence of the gravitron and "gravity"? There are several schools of thought trying to prove the existence of the gravitron so they can overturn relativity for their own cosmology (brane or M theory, etc), but it hasn't been witnessed, and if Einstein is correct, won't be.

I do agree that what the pastor said was foolish. But so was what you said.



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 04:05 PM
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Originally posted by sir_chancealot
It's called the LAW of Gravity, and the THEORY of evolution. Adjust views accordingly.


While not embracing the pastor's comments in the slightest, I feel compelled to tell you that "Gravity" doesn't exist in the sense you are trying to convey.



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 03:56 AM
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Faith is the evidence of things unseen.


NO IT IS NOT, period.

Maybe you should inform yourself about the definitions of the words you use, you don't seem to grasp their meaning, and i find it kind of funny i have to explain them to you, as English is my 3th language... and i seem to know their meaning. (I'm assuming that you're American, seeing as your location is the Bible Belt)

click the 2 links (they'll take you to wikipedia)
Evidence =/= faith

From the dictionary

FAITH -noun
1.confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2.belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.
3.belief in God or in the doctrines or teachings of religion: the firm faith of the Pilgrims.
4.belief in anything, as a code of ethics, standards of merit, etc.: to be of the same faith with someone concerning honesty.
5.a system of religious belief: the Christian faith; the Jewish faith.
6.the obligation of loyalty or fidelity to a person, promise, engagement, etc.: Failure to appear would be breaking faith.
7.the observance of this obligation; fidelity to one's promise, oath, allegiance, etc.: He was the only one who proved his faith during our recent troubles.
8.Christian Theology. the trust in God and in His promises as made through Christ and the Scriptures by which humans are justified or saved.
—Idiom
9.in faith, in truth; indeed: In faith, he is a fine lad.



EVIDENCE –noun
1.that which tends to prove or disprove something; proof.
2.something that makes plain or clear; an indication or sign: His flushed look was visible evidence of his fever.
3.Law. data presented to a court or jury in proof of the facts in issue and which may include the testimony of witnesses, records, documents, or objects.
–verb (used with object)
4.to make evident or clear; show clearly; manifest: He evidenced his approval by promising his full support.
5.to support by evidence: He evidenced his accusation with incriminating letters.
—Idiom
6.in evidence, plainly visible; conspicuous: The first signs of spring are in evidence.


See those two things are 2 COMPLETELY different things...But if those 2 things to you are the same, then we can never have a discussion...

And then ........drum roll..........there's something called a hypothesis

A hypothesis (like the one about atoms before the use of electron microscopes you mention) is not the same as faith. But you keep on thinking that.....

I have faith you must be crazy, so you must be,
because faith to you is evidence.... ? right ? see how wrong and dangerous that form of reasoning is ?

There goes your little wishful thinking. Over your head Woooooosh




Edit: adjusted some posting tags

[edit on 30-4-2008 by XyZeR]



posted on Apr, 30 2008 @ 04:24 AM
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Originally posted by _Del_

This is the most ironic part of the whole post. You realize of course that Einstein argues against the presence of the graviton and "gravity"? There are several schools of thought trying to prove the existence of the graviton so they can overturn relativity for their own cosmology (brane or M theory, etc), but it hasn't been witnessed, and if Einstein is correct, won't be.

I do agree that what the pastor said was foolish. But so was what you said.


I feel compelled to tell you that "what the pastor said" was from a fake news article on the onion.com It's a parody and comedy "news" site... Ironic that you took it for real and then called me foolish.

I don't really get what you found so ironic about my post ? Gravity exists, it has to come from somewhere, scientist cannot observe these gravitons but they can make the calculations match, IF they introduce an 11th dimension into the problem, This extra dimension can be used to unify Einstein's relativity's theory and other newer theories (like the string , or the Membrane theory). It would make the Marco and Micro-world match and act to the same general principles. Scientist think that a graviton,since it cannot be observed or measured, manifest themselves only in this 11th dimension. and that's why we cannot observe them (yet). I hope i made my view on the matter a little bit more clear, altho i agree, 11th dimensions are a tad bit confusing and mindboggeling.


In the mid 90s, a String Theorist named Edward Witten of the University of Maryland and other important researchers considered that the five different versions of String Theory might be describing the same thing seen from different angles. They proposed a unifying theory called "M-Theory", in which the "M" is not specifically defined, but is generally understood to stand for "Membrane." M-Theory brought all of the String Theories together so they agreed. It did this by asserting that strings are really 1-dimensional slices of a 2-dimensional membrane which is vibrating in 11-dimensional space.

M-Theory is not yet complete, but the underlying structure of the mathematics has been established, and is in seamless agreement with not only all the String Theories but with all of our scientific observations of the universe. Unfortunately, until we can find a way to mechanically observe higher dimensions (impossible with our current level of technology) M-Theory has a very difficult time making predictions which can be tested in a laboratory, so technically, it may never be possible for it to be "proven." However, many cosmologists, including Stephen Hawking, are drawn to M-Theory because of its breathtaking mathematical elegance and relative simplicity. Physicist and bestselling author Michio Kaku has remarked that M-Theory may present us with a "Theory of Everything" which is so concise that its underlying formula would fit on a T-Shirt.




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