Thanks For Nothing Jeremiah Wright and NAACP!

Originally posted by LLoyd45

You say he stayed because it was the fashionable church for African-Americans. Well, I don't know about you or Obama, but I go to church to hear the word of God, not be fashionable. Vanity is a sin. What does that say for Obama's character if he uses a church as a stepping stone for his political ambitions?

I didn't say that is in fact the reason he chose that church - I have no idea - but it IS possible. People go to church for any of a number of reasons, only the heart knows. I know plenty of so-called 'Christians' who go to church every Sunday and forget their ethics and moral foundations every other day of the week, particulary on Friday and Saturday nights.

However, for young families, attending a church that many of your peers go to is an important part of feeling like a member of a community and not just an anonymous person in a pew praying alone. I don't think it's vain, I think it's practical and smart - when you are trying to build the foundation for a spiritual family, you need lots of support.

Originally posted by Hal9000
Your right, and I shouldn't be saying that about someone that I haven't listened to more of. I have only heard the sound bites, but what I saw that CNN was showing was his impersonations and singing and dancing. Even if he has some credibility and some may even agree with what he says, the media is making him look ridiculous, and it will cost Obama the election.

The media isn't making him look ridiculous, he's making himself look ridiculous. They couldn't tape his antics, if he didn't put a show on for them.

Yes he is an adult, but could have also been manipulated to do this. Did you see the connection in kosmicjack's post?

He's not retarded, he's a very educated man. I doubt he could be manipulated that easily by a woman that he knows is a Clinton supporter.

Obama supporters will see this as a connection to the Clinton campaign and will cry fowl. Everything bad that has come out has been blamed on her or someone in the campaign.

I don't even like Clinton, but it's unfair to blame her for other people's stupidity. Hillary makes enough stupid mistakes of her own.

Originally posted by kosmicjack

I didn't say that is in fact the reason he chose that church - I have no idea - but it IS possible. People go to church for any of a number of reasons, only the heart knows. I know plenty of so-called 'Christians' who go to church every Sunday and forget their ethics and moral foundations every other day of the week, particulary on Friday and Saturday nights.

So-called Christians is right. A real Christian practices the same set of morals and values seven days a week, not just on prayer meeting nights and Sundays.

However, for young families, attending a church that many of your peers go to is an important part of feeling like a member of a community and not just an anonymous person in a pew praying alone. I don't think it's vain, I think it's practical and smart - when you are trying to build the foundation for a spiritual family, you need lots of support.

how does one build a spiritual foundation on morally shaky ground? It's the equivalent of trying to build a home atop a pool of quicksand.

reply to post by LLoyd45


We'll just have to agree to disagree, I don't see how wanting to attend a church with people like yourself (in his case young, upwardly mobile African American families) or in the same situation as yourself is morally shaky. Additionally, people change and Obama has stated that Wright's sermons were not typically like this.


www.huffingtonpost.com...

I'm outraged by the comments that were made and saddened by the spectacle that we saw yesterday. I have been a member of Trinity United Church of Christ since 1992 and have known Jeremiah Wright for almost 22 years. The person I saw yesterday was not the person I met 20 years ago. His comments were not only divisive and destructive, but they also give comfort to those that prey on hate and I believe they do not accurately portray the perspective of the black church. They certainly do not accurately portray my values and beliefs. If Reverend Wright thinks that is political posturing on my part, he does not know me very well.

I have already denounced those comments that have come out of these previous sermons. I gave him the benefit of the doubt in my speech in Philadelphia, explaining that he has done enormous good in the church, has built a wonderful conversation. They are a wonderful people and what attracted me has always been the ministries reach beyond church walls. But when he states and then amplifies such ridiculous propositions, that the U.S. government is involved in AIDS, when he suggests that Louis Farrakhan represents one of the greatest voices of the 21st century, when he equates the United States' wartime effort with terrorism, then there are no excuses. They offend me, they rightfully offend all Americans, and they should be denounced. That is what I am doing very clearly and unequivocally here today.

I have spent my entire adult life trying to bridge the gap between different kinds of people. That's in my DNA, trying to promote mutual understanding to insist that we all share common hopes and common dreams as Americans and as human beings. That's who I am, that's what I believe, and that's what this campaign has been about.

During Q and A with reporters, Senator Obama was asked, "Why didn't you react this way when you responded to Wright yesterday?" The reporter was referring to Reverend Wright's remarks at the National Press Club on Monday (Watch Video).

I will be honest, I had not seen it yet. ... What I had heard is that he had given a performance and I thought at that time it would be sufficient to repeat what I said in Philadelphia. Upon watching it, what came clear to me was that it was more than just him defending himself. What became clear is that he was presenting a worldview that contradicts who I am and what I stand for. What particularly angered me was his suggestion that my previous denunciation of his remarks was political posturing. Anybody who knows me or what I am about knows that I am trying to bridge gaps and seize the commonality in all people.

reply to post by LLoyd45

So then why do you think he was on a media tour so to speak over the weekend? Do you think he's speaking out because he doesn't agree with Obama's politics? It's alright to disagree, but then you should give an alternate reason. I haven't seen that in any of your posts.

Originally posted by kosmicjack

We'll just have to agree to disagree, I don't see how wanting to attend a church with people like yourself (in his case young, upwardly mobile African American families) or in the same situation as yourself is morally shaky.

There is nothing wrong with attending a church with people like yourself. My problem was with Obama attending a church that has such a negative message. Wright's message is not one of peace and unity, it's about division and hate which has clearly been shown.

Additionally, people change and Obama has stated that Wright's sermons were not typically like this.

People do change, sometimes for the better sometimes for the worse.

I applaud Obama for finally taking a stand on the issue. It's his only hope of ever getting the Democratic nomination, so I tend to view his present denunciation of Wright with a slightly jaundiced eye. We'll have to see if he sticks to his guns on the issue now.

[edit on 4/29/08 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by Hal9000
So then why do you think he was on a media tour so to speak over the weekend? Do you think he's speaking out because he doesn't agree with Obama's politics? It's alright to disagree, but then you should give an alternate reason. I haven't seen that in any of your posts.

I think Reverend Wright believes what he says to be true, and feels that Barak privately agrees with him. Then again, why shouldn't he? Barack had previously described Reverend Wright as his mentor, inspiration, and spritual advisor.

In all fairness though, With Barak's recent comments, I'd just say Reverend Wright is grandiose and delusional.






[edit on 4/29/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by LLoyd45

That doesn't explain why he is now going up or being put up in front of the media, even though he knows it will hurt Obama's chances of being nominated.

The question is why is he doing it?

I think he is being manipulated in a swiftboat campaign against Obama, and the media is playing along. It's funny that this all happened right after Obama said if he were elected he would investigate the previous administration of any wrong doing.

Obama would ask his AG to "immediately review" potential of crimes in Bush White House

But as previously mentioned, the press club was organized by a Hilliary supporter, so my theory that this was coming from the WH goes out the window.

This 'Guilty by Association' BS is going too far.

Why are people caring more about Obama's former pastor than about the issues between the candidates?

Wright is all the media has been talking about all day every day, so they obviously are wise to the notion that people care about stuff that doesn't matter, and vice-versa.

PEOPLE, look at the issues and the character of the candidates, NOT speculating how someone views another's opinions!

reply to post by Hal9000
Maybe he's suffering from some type of mental illness, and doesn't see his posturing and antics as harmful to Obama.

I've worked with people that behaved as he did yesterday. He seemed a bit manic to me. He's a very intelligent man by any measure, so maybe it's a medication issue. Perhaps that's why he dropped off the radar for so long recently. That's just a hypothesis on my part, so take it for what it's worth.

I don't believe it's a conspiracy to assasinate his character by the Whitehouse crew though. Maybe he's just trying to sell a book or become the next Al Sharpton.. Who knows?



[edit on 4/29/08 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by bigbert81
PEOPLE, look at the issues and the character of the candidates, NOT speculating how someone views another's opinions!

Do you not see a correlation betwen a person and the company they keep? An old Japanese proverb says: "If you have questions about a person's character, look to his friends."

If Hillary spent 20 years under the mentorship of David Dukes, do you think that would be a non-issue as well?

[edit on 4/29/08 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by bigbert81
Why are people caring more about Obama's former pastor than about the issues between the candidates?

The reason this sticks is because Obama doesn't have a track record. He's a rookie Senator from Illinois that hasn't signed onto or pushed through any legislation of any sort. 9/11, the war in Iraq, all were before his time. Since we know zilch about him everyone is looking around to see what he's all about. Change and Hope sound nice, but is he the man to deliver them? You have to look at his past actions to determine this. Since there's nothing in the Senate it defaults to his pre-Senate life.

After reading the recent statement by Sharpton that Obama is "grandstanding in front of white people," I'm beginning to wonder if there isn't an attempt to sabotage his campaign. Sharpton and Wright (and others) would instantly lose the "glass ceiling" argument were Obama to win the general election. It's hard to stump against "the Man" when the man is personified by Obama. And if he loses it's "proof" the country "isn't ready for a black president." "cui bono?" Is it possible that these men who made their wealth in such a battle see their raison d'être threatened by a successful Obama campaign?




I'm still trying to figure this out....

As I posted in the other thread, radicals like Wright and Sharpton, faced with a campaign by Hillary's minions and the far right to paint Obama as a "black radical", are taking a closer look at his record and his words.

And they're finding that he really is the moderate pragmatic consensus-builder he presents himself as, not a fiery perpetually-outraged radical like themselves.

So they're turning on him, as self-defined "radicals" always do when faced with someone they don't consider radical enough for them.

Especially if, as _Del_ points out, his potential for success threatens their careers.

[edit on 5/1/08 by xmotex]

Originally posted by xmotex
As I posted in the other thread, radicals like Wright and Sharpton, faced with a campaign by Hillary's minions and the far right to paint Obama as a "black radical", are taking a closer look at his words.

And they're finding that he is really trying to protray himself as the moderate pragmatic consensus-builder, not a fiery perpetually-outraged radical like themselves.

So they're turning on him, as self-defined "radicals" always do when faced with someone they don't consider radical enough for them , because he sold out

Especially if, as _Del_ points out, his potential for success threatens their careers.

[edit on 5/1/08 by xmotex]

Edited above (in bold) to more closely match my own view. Either could of course be correct. I'm not saying only my theory is possibly true...

[edit on 1-5-2008 by _Del_]

Originally posted by xmotex
As I posted in the other thread, radicals like Wright and Sharpton, faced with a campaign by Hillary's minions and the far right to paint Obama as a "black radical", are taking a closer look at his record and his words.

And they're finding that he really is the moderate pragmatic consensus-builder he presents himself as, not a fiery perpetually-outraged radical like themselves.

So they're turning on him, as self-defined "radicals" always do when faced with someone they don't consider radical enough for them.

Especially if, as _Del_ points out, his potential for success threatens their careers.

[edit on 5/1/08 by xmotex]

Have any of you actually took the time to look up what Black Liberal Theology entails? I was watching a taped interview with Reverend Wright the other night, when he said you could not possibly understand the Black Value System of his church without having read about Black Liberal Theology or James Cone. I hadn't, so I did a little research. What I found was disturbing..

James Cone defines the theology thus:
"Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community ... Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love."

Link

After he and his family have listened to this message for over 20 years, how could he possibly have a goal of uniting all people in this country? You must also keep in mind that Reverend Wright, by his own admission has been his mentor and spiritual advisor all those years.

Barack refuse to answers any questions regarding Black Liberation Theology and the Trinity church or to discuss his personal views on God. I wonder why?

Did anyone notice that personal security for Reverend Wright was provided by the Nation of Islam?


[edit on 5/1/08 by LLoyd45]

I'm familiar with it. And Obama is too. He attended the church for 20 years. I would think it's more likely that he's hiding his true colours ("selling out") than that he suddenly learned his pastor is a quack. He's acting the part of the moderate.

I suspect he was in Wright's congregation because, in local Chicago circles, the man's views weren't particularly controversial. IE, he was trying to appear further left than he actually is, on order to pander to his political base in Chicago, and being in Wright's (large, influential) church was a political asset.

If you look at his voting record, he was a moderate by Chicago political standards in the Statehouse, and his voting record (if we want to focus on actions and not rhetoric) became even more so in the Senate.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Obama should just admit that he didn't take his pastor or church seriously and just used them for political advantage. Want proof? He didn't tithe even though he was a member for 20 years.