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Freemasonry's Connection To The Homosexual Movement

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posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 


Dang!!!..I hate haten' people..it makes me grouchy and my head hurts..and it takes to much effort!!!!!!!




posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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wow, some of you want to argue even if there IS a homosexual 'agenda', or a homosexual 'movement'.

I would rather argue - if I have too - over why it is that everyone who seems to not 100% agree with homosexuality...is considered 'homophobic'???

you obviously dont even know the meaning of the word phobia, which is an unnatural or unreasonable fear of something. I do not in anyway "fear" homosexuals.

I know many many many people who think a homosexual lifestyle is a choice, and not something you are born with, and as far as it being wrong in God's eyes, its no different than other sins like lying, stealing, cheating on your spouse, murder, etc...all are sins. And in that context I cannot hate nor fear homosexuals. But I also cannot fail to point out what is said above, that its a sin.

You may choose to disagree with all that above. Thats your right and I support your right to disagree....but for crying out loud, get over the ignorant labeing of everyone as "homophobes".



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by TrailGator
wow, some of you want to argue even if there IS a homosexual 'agenda', or a homosexual 'movement'.
Sure, I think that's a valid question in light of the allegations being put forth by the OP. He claims that Masonry is furthering an agenda. I, and others, would argue there IS no homosexual agenda, nor 'movement', thus considering the suggestion that Masonry is somehow promoting something which I don't believe exists is laughable. To me, at least. But clearly there are some people who DO think that homosexuals are plotting something against the rest of us. Heck, this is a conspiracy forum site--there's probably someone here who believes that my kid's little-league baseball team is secretly running the country. *shrug*

So it's relevant to the discussion. What's your position? Do you think that gays are organized, have a plan, and are trying to execute that plan? If yes, do you think Freemasons are furthering that?


I would rather argue - if I have too - over why it is that everyone who seems to not 100% agree with homosexuality...is considered 'homophobic'???

you obviously dont even know the meaning of the word phobia, which is an unnatural or unreasonable fear of something. I do not in anyway "fear" homosexuals.
Perhaps you don't, but many people do. They might not say fear. Some would say "hate", but quite often hatred stems from fear of the unknown or different. I don't know if there's a good term describing bigotry specifically directed at gays. I don't know what the equivalent of misandry or misogamy would be for transgendered people, or a similar term that would apply based on sexual preference. Phobia, while not an ideal descriptor seems to be, if not the best suited, the most common.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 02:31 PM
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Can we please get off the topic of this thread being rediculous and move on. The op proposed a conspiracy. And ehre's the great thing, it's not necisarily bad, the pro gay people immiadately view this in a negative light for some reason. Even the pro masons view it in a negative light. Why?
Another thing I'd like to add is this. Disliking Gays and being homophobic is completely different!
Homphobic= fear of gay people. Disliking flamboyantly gay men for the characther flaws and sterotypes THEY STRIVE to portray is not racist.
I have a bisexual friend and he's all right. But I hate most gay men because their flamboyant and annoying.
We're in a america people we can dislike anyone we want for any reason Can we stop calling people homophobes or secret fags for disliking a person or people for whatever reason they choose to. It's human to have opinions you pansies get over it.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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Be happy that I'm not a bigot, embracer of ignorance, or afraid of homosexuals & their excited supporters. I love the truth. I don't plan on insultng any of you, poor-masons, but I do plan to share the truth with all of you.

Recently, I became aware of www.GayMasons.com & the History of Homosexuality:

GayMasons.com

There are many gay men who belong to our Fraternity. There are gay men in the United States who are Masons. There are gay men in England who are Masons. And, I am certain there are gay men throughout the world who are Masons.

And, a look at the history of our Fraternity reveals some amazing facts.

Do you recognize the picture?



It is a picture of Oscar Wilde.

Many of us are familir with the works of Oscar Wilde, including The Picture of Dorian Gray and The Importance of Being Earnest. And, many of us are aware of the fact that he was imprisoned for two years for alleged homosexual activity.

But, did you know that Oscar Wilde belonged to our Fraternity and is proudly listed among "famous Masons"?

Oscar Wilde was raised to the sublime degree of Master Mason on May 25, 1875 at Apollo Univeristy Lodge #357 --- a fact commemorated on a Masonic First Day Cover:


For more information about the Homosexual-movement within that secret-society, please consider reading more about it, visit these websites, and stop attacking me because I seem like your enemies (proud straight christians & other popular religious public-organizations, who don't hide in candlelit temples to perform rituals):

FreeMasons Phallic Worship
An Account of Phallic Faiths and Practices (a.k.a. History of Freemasonry)
Bibleprobe.com/freemasonry
Global Freemasonry. com

[...] Much has been said about the Templars' homosexual practices [...]


[edit on 29-4-2008 by ChadAndrewATS]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 02:50 PM
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Originally posted by ChadAndrewATS

FreeMasons Phallic Worship
An Account of Phallic Faiths and Practices (a.k.a. History of Freemasonry)
Bibleprobe.com/freemasonry
Global Freemasonry. com

[...] Much has been said about the Templars' homosexual practices [...]


You know that King Phillip the Faire and Pope Clement said and wrote those things into the accusations so that it would get people more angry and actually have something to make them look bad through means of slander. Those accusations are false.

Also you are just quoting and giving examples from purely anti-Masonic websites that give their own opinion on the fraternity, doesn’t count as proof.

[edit on 28-4-2008 by bushidomason]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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with due respect, I must correct (to no avail, I know already) all of you who state that it is a "fact" that homosexuality is a "sin".
"Sin" is a religious term. It therefore belongs in the realm of opinion, dogma, belief; etc. but not fact.
One religion may or may not concur with another's notion of sin or right and wrong. People who aren't religious surely are not beholden to the opinions of those who are.
Your arguments about sin are erroneous, meaningless, and pointless. You are free to hold your views, but they bear no weight outside your circle of "believers", and certainly are anything but facts.
now, back to the mudslinging and paranoia - oh yah, the Masons ...



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984
 

How am I a bigoted fool? You don't have any facts to support your claims, but you can go ahead and make blind-judgments while calling me a fool, even though you're a great example of what you claim I am. If you really hate bigoted fools, don't be like them!

It's not my fault you didn't research the information from all of the sources, which clearly expose the connection between homosexuals & freemasonry. You haven't proven me to be a fool, you just did the opposite. Don't worry. I'm not mad at you though. Keep searching for the truth, even though you seem to really hate it.

SaveTheMales.ca
Freemasonry and Homosexuality
Still the Same: What Is Going On
Inside the Vatican?


After reading the above, I invite readers to visit a site where they might read accounts of homosexuality, Freemasonry and corruption


[edit on 28-4-2008 by ChadAndrewATS]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 03:55 PM
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I come from a long line of Masons as well as myself,and I've yet to meet a gay Mason yes perhaps there is some but what an ignorant statement to make,that is like me saying everyone that drives a VW is gay,let's think before we say something with little to no substanace



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 04:35 PM
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reply to post by Oldtimer2
 

Have you read all of the information from the freemasons, who wrote about freemasonry's connection with the homosexual movement? Quite clearly, you must have missed the facts, which were presented in those articles provided by numerous homosexual masonic informants. Take your own advice.
Do some more research into the subject of this forum-thread before making more false-accusations against the sources (real freemasons) of that important information.

[edit on 29-4-2008 by RamboGoneWild]



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 05:14 PM
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Wow is it that time again already.

This thread must be the most embarrassing reflection of this community that I have ever seen, and that is saying something. I am glad that most of the Freemasons on this board have felt able to rise above the banality and therefore maintained their deserved high ground. It is just a freak show, laughing only stops the tears. Bizarre.

There's no business like show business - proceed please, my sides are splitting.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by RamboGoneWild
reply to post by Oldtimer2
 

Have you read all of the information from the freemasons, who wrote about freemasonry's connection with the homosexual movement? Quite clearly, you must have missed the facts, which were presented in those articles provided by numerous homosexual masonic informants. Take your own advice.
Do some more research into the subject of this forum-thread before making more falsely-accusations against the sources (real freemasons) of that important information.
The question is, have you? In summation, here are all the links that have been proffered so far in this theread as "proof".


  • Freemasonry's Connection To The Homosexual Movement - Not written by a Mason, so doesn't qualify in your category of "homosexual masonic informants". Like many anti-Mason sites, seems to like misrepresenting Pike.
  • Homosexuality in Masonic Lodges? - by Bro. Theron Dunn, former ATS member and Mason. Asks the question if Masons should be intolerant of gays. Suggests the position of the author that all men are equal regardless of their sexual orientation. I don't have a problem with equality, do you?
  • Enfants de Cambacérès - Seems to be an organization of gays who are also Masons. May be affiliated with the Grand Orient of France, I can't tell. If enough gays want to get together and start their own lodge, they should be allowed to do so. I would only hope that they welcome straight men into their organization as well...tolerance is a two-way street. No indication that they wouldn't.
  • Freemasonry Watch - This link doesn't appear to have anything to do with homosexuality. I don't know why it was included.
  • Architects of Deception - The only thing on this page about homosexuality is just putting forth the theory that Masons promote gay equality to confuse everyone else. In the same sentence the author claims that Masons are promoting Atheism as well, when it is clear that any UGLE affiliated regular lodge requires a belief in diety to become a member. IMHO, that takes away any credibility the author might have.
  • A Web-ring - Wow. Haven't seen webrings in almost 10 years. OK. Nothing interesting or "factual" on this page, so I'll look at the 5 sites that are members of the ring... Three say gays should be allowed to become Masons. One is the home page of a gay Mason, and the last one is an ad for a book that has nothing to do with gays. Where's the conspiracy?
  • An MSN Group for gay Freemasons in the UK - Nothing sinister here. Not even particularly gay in content - just one guy who mentions that he's gay and that he's glad there's not a problem joining because of that.
  • A BBS for Masons in New Zeland - no gay content at all. Don't know why ahuman included it.
  • Another page from the same BBS - a thread from a gay man wanting to join a lodge but afraid of prejudice and looking for an open-minded lodge. The gist of it is that he might have a hard time finding some place to welcome him. Not really a banner example of Freemasonry promoting the gay movement, huh?
  • Seattle Masonic lodge openly accepts gay members - a post from Masonic blogger The Widow's Son (also an ATS member) mentioning that in 2006 a particular lodge allowed some gays to join. 2006. In a society that claims ancestry at least to 1717. Yeah, homosexuality is real high on our agenda.
  • Some BBS - A guy who describes himself as someone who tries to get men to quit Masonry. Random and unintelligible accusations. No follow-up comments. Not really worth giving this guy any credence.
  • H istory of Homosexuality - The only thing in this article that mentions Masons is the idea that they erect towers which are phallic. The old obelisk myth. Tired, and nothing to back it up.
  • Gay Masons.com - Apparently the website of a gay Mason. Only seems to exist to ask the question "Can a gay man become a Mason?" to which the answer is "Yes." Not seeing a big conspiracy here either...
  • A blog post on Phallic Worship - Doesn't really accuse the Masons of being gay... if anything, it says that the symbolism of Masonry is all about heterosexual sex.

    The Square represents the female (passive) generative principle, the earth, and the baser, sensual nature; and the Compass represents the male (active) generative principle, the sun/heavens, and the higher, spiritual nature. The Compass, arranged above the Square, symbolizes the (male) Sun, impregnating the passive (female) Earth with its life-producing rays. The true meanings, then are two-fold: the earthly (human) representations are of the man and his phallus, and the woman with her receptive cteis (vagina). The cosmic meaning is that of the active Sun (deity, the Sun-god) from above, imparting life into the passive Earth, (deity, the earth/fertility goddess) below and producing new life

  • Cutting Edge - Typical anti-Mason fare. Makes claims about Templars that have been refuted by other posts here.
Almost done... to be continued.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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  • Bible Probe - The first link here to actually use the term "homosexual agenda", but doesn't back it up at all.
  • Global Freemasonry - An anti-mason author who goes after the Templar accusations also.
  • What Is Going On Inside the Vatican? - Talks about gays in the Vatican while at the same time saying that the Catholic church is strongly against Masonry. Don't see how this furthers the idea of Masons promoting homosexuality. Seems like it should be Catholics that people worry about!


That's it! So RamboGoneWild, where are these "facts" that I overlooked?

It's a fact that there are some gay Masons. It's a fact that some of these gay Masons might want to hang out with, or otherwise communicate with other gay Masons. It's a fact that some gays are afraid they might not be allowed to become Masons because they are gay. It's a fact that tolerance towards gays in the lodge has been very slow in coming around, as the acceptance of blacks and other racial or religious groups. Sad fact: there's intolerence everywhere, if you look for it. Hopefully things are getting better.

Does any of this actually show that Masonry is some great big gay superpower? No. If anything the links show what a minority gays in Masonry still are.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 08:24 PM
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Seems a little too abovious to me thta enemies of the freedom would be opposed to repordcution by there enemyes; the free? Of course they incourage it ? makes sense to not having lots of little antit there establishments fighters runing around.

I must say that i ma apposed to this threatd. Seems homo-fobic to be attacking the homosexuals like athey're a bad thing. I dont' like the ovrearcing tonality of this threatd. you whould all be more sensitive. my best friends atre of that perference and i wish that whey sould feal more welcvome here.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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i'm sorry but could all of the 33 degree masons here on ATS please identify yourselves before you talk about masonry, because the OP posted information from a 33rd degree mason, and everything i have read says that 32 and 33 aren't the same thing in masonry, so maybe you learn a few things once you hit 33

again i'd like to see all the 33rd degree masons here show a pic of your ring, badge, w/e to even prove you are in the masons in the first place, then try to prove you are a 33rd degree mason so you can comment on the information given by a mason who is a 33rd degree mason that the OP posted about

that's like me saying "well i'm an assistant manager, but i know everything the manager does" well i don't, but if i make manager i get trained as a manager and learn more then i do, that's my point and what i am getting at, unless you are 33rd degree then what can you really say about what a 33rd degree mason says about masonry?



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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reply to post by OSSkyWatcher
 


the 33rd degree is honorary it is nothing different then that of a 32nd degree. all you get is a new hat which is white instead of the black one with the double headed eagle on it. instead you get a white cap with the double-cross on it. It is just an honorary degree its like getting a 50 year pin.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 11:28 PM
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Originally posted by bushidomason
reply to post by OSSkyWatcher
 


the 33rd degree is honorary it is nothing different then that of a 32nd degree. all you get is a new hat which is white instead of the black one with the double headed eagle on it. instead you get a white cap with the double-cross on it. It is just an honorary degree its like getting a 50 year pin.
(but 50 year hats are blue...
)

And in response to OSSkyWatcher, no, there's no need to look for any ultra-secret 33° stuff... the OP is just quoting Pike. Everybody quotes Pike. Most people do it poorly, or to suit their own ends, but invariably, he's the guy who's name gets attached. The guy wrote something like 60,000 words on Masonry in his lifetime, so people often pick & choose the bits that sound juicy out of context.



posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 11:34 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


yes haha the blue hats are the 50 year members, but i was trying to relate to how the 33rd is honorary like the 50 year pin.

preferably i don't care if i get the white cap, it would be nice but it is not something i desire to obtain. i am satisfied with my black cap



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by bushidomason
reply to post by JoshNorton
 


yes haha the blue hats are the 50 year members, but i was trying to relate to how the 33rd is honorary like the 50 year pin.

preferably i don't care if i get the white cap, it would be nice but it is not something i desire to obtain. i am satisfied with my black cap


post a pic to prove you even have one though, if i can't cry "pics or stfu" (that's a joke btw, no offence) on ATS about this right now then i should just leave the internet

seriously though i'd like to see the black cap, and anything else anyone here saying they are a mason can post, take the cell phone out and snap a few pics of the cap
all you masons should prove you are masons, you are no different than an area 51 "employee" or "ex employee" with no photos to back up their claims



posted on Apr, 29 2008 @ 07:55 AM
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Originally posted by OSSkyWatcher
post a pic to prove you even have one though, if i can't cry "pics or stfu" (that's a joke btw, no offence) on ATS about this right now then i should just leave the internet
Bye bye, then.


seriously though i'd like to see the black cap, and anything else anyone here saying they are a mason can post, take the cell phone out and snap a few pics of the cap
all you masons should prove you are masons, you are no different than an area 51 "employee" or "ex employee" with no photos to back up their claims
No. See, there's a giant flaw in your argument...

that's like me saying "well i'm an assistant manager, but i know everything the manager does" well i don't, but if i make manager i get trained as a manager and learn more then i do, that's my point and what i am getting at, unless you are 33rd degree then what can you really say about what a 33rd degree mason says about masonry?
All fine and good if you want to believe such rubbish, but then to extend your analogy, you'd take the word of someone who'd never set foot in the store that THEY knew everything the manager knew? Even more than the assistant manager who's worked in the store for 20 years? If you're saying 32° Masons can't quote Pike because they're not 33°, then you automatically have to extend that to prohibiting non-Masons from quoting Pike on the same grounds. And I'm fine with that. Pike's not that special. He wrote some stuff ~150 years ago that's not that relevant to Masonry today. You want to exclude him from the discussion, that's fine by me.



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