Another prison camp in Ft. Dix?

I'm wondering if I could get a little feedback here. My last post was of a prison camp in Ft. Dix, which certain members believed it could be used for training purposes. I believe I've found another from satellite imagery (don't complain), This one is much larger and under construction as well.

Punch this into maps.live.com: Juliustown Highbridge road, Fort Dix, NJ
-NOT GOOGLE EARTH-
Turn on birds eye, and tell me what you think. I wouldn't post a topic as sketchy as this unless I thought it truly could be evidence!

Does anyone who currently works at the base or used to work at the base have any idea what this is being used for?

I am no expert, and I haven't been to Dix in about 7 or 8 years so I can't recall what was in that part of the base, but I have some guesses based on things I've seen in my 13+ years in the military.

I am one of those people who has the point of view that I won't jump to conclusions until I have enough evidence to make an informed decision. Thus, I did not go into the imagery with the idea of "let's find evidence of a prison camp," rather I was just evaluating what I saw.

My first idea is that they are building a new ASP, or Ammo Supply Point. The wire fence and guard towers are consistent with such. Though not all ASPs have guard towers, one that I frequently went to at Fort Devens sure did (where the golf course is now, not the new ASP on the south post), and I believe I have seen them at Forts Benning, McClellan, and Bragg. Memory may not be correct since I've been all over the place and have seen a lot, but you get my point--- guard towers do not a prison make.

It appears that there are several things being built that are spaced apart; I imagine those could be the actual storage "bunkers" that will eventually be covered with earthen berm.

Also along the east road (for lack of a better term), toward the northeast corner, there are small copses of trees. I would guess that based on those and the tire ruts around them, that this parcel of land had some structures on it previously that are no longer there. Again the relatively isolated location makes me think of a good place for an ASP, so perhaps those are old storage connex locations.

It appears that there are small groups of GP medium or large tents; I am guessing that could be the temporary storage for tools, vehicles, etc.

There appears to be a line of portable toilets just north of what appears to be a ramp used for loading things onto vehicles. Then again you can see those things pretty much anywhere on a base.

Also I am wondering if the area to the south is a bivouac area?

its probably a training camp. or maybe they hold weapons there. somebody that lives near should drive there and find out what it really is and get pictures from the street view.

sory m8 looks lik just an other base 2 me and a bit 2 close 2 home 4 that sort of thing


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[edit on 27-4-2008 by elevatedone]

Thank you for your posts, anti us gov and starscrip.

Could you please point out what evidence you saw in the photos that lead you to make your statements?

Anti us gov-- what makes you think it is a training camp? It sure could be, I should know as I spent 9 years in the US Army MP Corps, but to me it does not look like it has enough structures to simulate a camp as my unit trained (late 1990s).

One major thing I would like to point out is that the road to this facility is outside the main gate. No doubt it's on on Ft. Dix property, but you do not need to enter the base to get to it.

Another thing I know about Dix is that all training areas are located further south . Big dirt fields basically. Set up with everything needed for what ever training they're doing.

In the imagery you can see rather old looking bunkers covered in dirt, which is odd considering the new buildings they are building appear to be very barracks like.

So my main questions are: 1) If this is ammo storage, why is it located here? 2) Why is it being built onto so much now? Compare the birds eye (which is newer) to the regular satellite imagery, you'll see what I mean. 3) Would a munitions storage area be this large for such few bunkers? I know McGuire AFB has one located South West of the runways, and it has twice as many bunkers in an area 1/10 the size

Thanks for the input everyone!

[edit on 27-4-2008 by User92560437]

Sorry for the double post, but really check this out! Turn off bird's eye, and view standard imagery, which is older. In the older imagery you will see white structures on the sides of the facility which appear to be being excavated. In the newer imagery those structures are not there. You can see the spots where they were, but thats it. So what it looks like to me is that they are tearing down an old munitions site...and building barracks....in an area surrounded by fence....and guard towers....

One other thing I would like to point out is that if you head back east Juliustown Rd. about halfway up and go north to a small clearing, you will see two steel frame buildings, the same size as the structures in the facility. Preparing to move more barracks in?

Again please bear in mind that I love a good mystery as much as the next person, and I am approaching this with an open mind and not thinking "let's find reasons to say this is a training/actual prison camp."

User92560437-- most of this message is in response to things you have said, and THANKS for giving me some food for thought on my days off! I am enjoying playing with the imagery and whatnot.

First of all, I am not sure if I am just an old-timer who hasn't been around the country enough lately (drilled only in-state in my last couple years in the Guard), but I do not see any barracks, or any buildings resembling barracks, in any of these images. I see green canvas tents, as I said before probably GP-mediums or GP-large (General Purpose), which could indeed be used as barracks, but can be erected in a short period of time by relatively untrained soldiers, so I don't think they are indicative of much. I would imagine that longer-term projects would use actual permanent buildings and not tents. I also see white buildings, with high rooflines, such as are typically used to store 10-ton trucks with cranes on the back, or other high-clearance wheeled vehicles. I should say, at least that's what I have seen in my experience. They certainly are not like any barracks I have seen.

In the clearing to the east/northeast, I see those frame-like structures, and frankly they look like the framework for a GP-large, or a steel-sided building. The lack of wear on the nearby terrain makes me think they may only be used periodically, for example during summer AT bivouacs by visiting units. Throw the GP-large canvas on the frame, stake the ropes, and you have a quick shelter. Again, they certainly do not resemble the framework for any barracks I saw during my service.

To answer a zillion questions at once...I went into the infamous Google Earth imagery, and when I saw the loop-shaped road area in the upper right of the area in question, I am convinced that this either is or was an ASP. That is an offload point for certain explosives. Ammo and some explosives (grenades at least) would be unloaded on the concrete dock I mentioned before, whereas higher-yield explosives would be unloaded in a more shielded area such as that little loop.

Which brings me to my next point, User92560437 this will answer one of your questions...

The reason there are so few "bunkers" (I agree that is the best way to describe them, though the Army calls them "magazines"), and the area is isolated, is that this would be used for storing higher-yield explosives. Sitting next to me now is are tattered copies of DA Form 4604-R ("Security Construction Statement") and FORSCOM Form 133-R ("Quantity Distance Verification") that I knew I had still sitting in my gear from my days as an MP.

The 1st document is a form that would be used to list the construction type, and then declare the capacity, size, etc., of something like an ammo storage magazine. The guideline for the form is AR 190-11, so I guess that if someone could dig up a copy of 190-11, we would find the exact specifications for different size and purpose magazines.

The second document is perhaps the key here. It would be used to list the type of explosives and quantity in pounds that could be stored in several different "magazine" structures. It also has the "quantity distance separation" in feet, listing how far apart the different structures must be. And my notes indicate that this form is filled out in accordance with AR 385-64, which I just found here:

www.wbdg.org...

Hmm, I just thought, why not do an online search for these documents so you folks can see what I mean?

This is a PDF that loads so slowly on my computer that I am not sure what it will show, but I think it is the FORSCOM 133-R:

www.forscom.army.mil...

Here is a blank 4604-R:

www.army.com...

This seems to link to guidelines for using forms like the 4604-R:

www.tpub.com...

Wow, that's a lot of good information, thank you. Do you see what I mean by how it looks like the old Magazines (thank you again) are being torn down? Also, what/who could they possibly be housing in the new "tents"?

One thing I would like to show you is a new prison camp being built at fort dix. It is a "Satellite Camp", as the BOP says, and its use is unknown at the moment. I don't want to debate its use right now, but if you compare the tents being built there they are almost identical. Though they do have a foundation, they are covered with the same type of material.

Satellite: Gas Rd. Fort Dix, NJ (follow south to camp on your right)

Here is a video of it as well (taken by me):

www.youtube.com...

and another

www.youtube.com...

Hmm, not THAT, especially the second video, looks like a prison camp, I will admit! It looks like a typical military one, either built for temporary use or for training, certainly not permanent-looking. I have no idea why the BOP would want it as it is; they tend to favor existing hardened structures or they build their own facilities.

This area is a small arms ammo storage area.
The fixed building's are or were used for training boots in NBC.

I know this because I did boot there and some times I was posted as
a guard on this very site. I also did my NBC training in the building
that is located in the south west corner of the compound.

so no it's not a prison camp

Wing-Nut