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Isreal Wall, non existent race whines

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posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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Suicide bomber headquarters in an isolated area? You find one, they'll bomb it. Wait, there aren't any, and why is that? Because then the terrorists wouldn't be able to use civillians as human sheilds. And shooting into a crowd that is rioting, and what are they rioting about? I doubt the mistreatment of a donkey. More like the fact Isreal exists and that they should be, as Arafat put it, "Pushed into the sea".

Go to bed, get some sleep, and then come back with a good arguement.




posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
Um, killing civillians and killing the enemy's navy are two different things. Also, Japan was a country, they had declared war on us, and again, were killing their enemy's navy. Palestinians do not exist(No Palestine, ever, just a nomadic group of people who traveled all over middle east), have not declared war, and kill babies and women.

Nomadic people, hmm, sounds much like the Jews as well, who mostly CAME to the area early to mid 1900's. Palastine is not some ramshackle place. But for your education, I'll post something for you here.

I'll come from both sides of the fence for your benifit:
-Statistics
-PNA stresses rights to be recognized as sovern state
-Stats from Israel to back up estimates by PNA
- League of Nations mandate which begins the creating of a Jewish homeland also states that "Article 5.-The Mandatory shall be responsible for seeing that no Palestine territory shall be ceded or leased to, or in any way placed under the control of, the Government of any foreign Power." and Artical 11 states that "The Administration of Palestine shall take all necessary measures to safeguard the interests of the community in connection with the development of the country, and, subject to any international obligations accepted by the Mandatory, shall have full power to provide for public ownership or control of any of the natural resources of the country or of the public works, services and utilities established or to be established therein. It shall introduce a land system appropriate to the needs of the country, having regard, among other things, to the desirability of promoting the close settlement and intensive cultivation of the land." But we all know what happened to the League of Nations, yet you can find this as proof of Israeli rights on their site yet they have not followed it.


And when it comes to wars, Isreal has won everyone, and that is why the Arabs cry so much. Here is the cycle when it comes to wars. Arabs attack, Isreal counter attacks, Isreal wins, Isreal keeps land they won in the war, Arabs cry. Arabs attack, Isreal counter attacks, Isreal wins, Isreal keeps land they won in the war. Repeat. Repeat.

And of course with palestinian attacks. If they were to attack the military, I wouldn't see as much of a problem. But they attack school buses, hospitals, grocery stores, so forth. And what happens? Isreal takes a car in the middle of a traffic jam, shoots it with a missle, kills the terrorist leader and a couple of thugs. They then blow up the home of the terrorist who was in the attack, and accidently injure the Arabs who haven't left the home.(Isreal has warned the people that if they are attacked, they will destroy the home of the terrorist, and all people should leave it, for some reason Arafat sends people to the home)

I like the idea Djarums had. Wouldn't work, but still a good idea.



posted on Feb, 27 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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KJ, "education" is a two-edged sword that comes from what you percieve as correct and another percieves as correct. In such, the issue(s) that you present, I believe, in mentioning the Mandate for Palestine, is the areas that are claimed as illegially "occupied Arab territories/Lands"? Please clarify the point you are aiming it if what I have concluded is wrong; my apologies.

In respect to the Mandate of Palestine, there remains three contested areas: Judea, Samaria, and Gaza, in regards to the Mandate:

> "These areas are the only areas of the Mandate for Palestine in which Sovereignty has not been granted to either the Jews or the Arabs and represents less than 6% of the territory of Palestine."

> "Under the terms of the League of Nations Mandate these areas were to be made available to Jews for the purposes of the establishment of the Jewish National Home."

> "The trusts conferred by the Mandate for the benefit of the Jews continue to remain binding on the United Nations pursuant to Article 80 of the United Nations Charter."

> "Since 1967 the Jews have established settlements in various parts of these areas and at the present time 130,000 Jews and 1,200,000 Arabs live there."

> "Both Jews and Arabs still claim sovereignty of these areas."

> "These areas have been successively administered since the commencement of the Mandate in 1920 as follows:
1920-1947 - Great Britain
1948-1967 - Jordan
1967-1994 - Israel
1994-1997 - Partly by Israel and partly by the Palestinian Authority."


"Contrary to common misconceptions these areas are not "occupied Arab Lands". They remain the unallocated territory of Palestine within which the Jews are entitled to reconstitute their Jewish National Home pursuant to the League of Nations Mandate."

www.pfp.fl.net.au...
www.jewishinternetassociation.org...
www.freeman.org...


In this matter of the Mandate, should the real issue and possible solution also involve Jordon?



regards
seekerof



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 08:46 AM
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Yes, Seeker, it should involve Jordan. Since its king said years ago that Jordan is Palestine and Palestine is Jordan, if those people who are called "Palestinians" are really Palestinians, they most certainly belong in Jordan, wouldn't you think?



posted on Feb, 28 2004 @ 11:23 AM
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I brought the Mandate into play, not so much to debate the ins and outs of it, although that might be fun someday, but rather to show that this is taken from Israeli website.

I was only showing both sides, but my information did not have the desired effect. I will clarify.

Although we do not, at this time, truely know where this all started (since we do not live there past and present), there is a lot of conjecture on both sides.

My main point was that I am interested about where this started, and I am confident that there are blood on both parties hands.

The "terrorists" are just as extreme in thought as many of the "Zionists".



posted on Mar, 2 2004 @ 05:11 PM
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Yes, the Zionists are extremely into killing terrorists, as extreme as terrorists are in killing Jews. Also, as said, Jordan is palestine, palestine is Jordan, yet they still want land from Isreal. Would it make since for say, New York to attack and kill Rhode Island civillians because they say the Rhode Islanders should give up land, when they just say that as an excuse to kill Rhode Islanders for being Rhode Islanders, while Pennsylvania says they are New York, and New York is Pennsylvania? No, for Rhode Island is small, and Pennsylvania is large. Rhode Island is being attacked for one reason only, for being Rhode Islanders.

I know that example is not going to happen, but still, it explains my point.



posted on Mar, 2 2004 @ 07:07 PM
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Originally posted by JediMaster
The Palestinains are cowards. They cowardly strap bombs to themselves, belive that killing bus loads of innocents including babies will get them to Muslim heaven. The terrorists are targeting civilians, 99.9% of the time. The Jews fight back and attack Hamas and the rest of the terrorists, killing inncocents accidently.

ah but what is truely cowardly? the act of dieing for your country by strapping a bomb to yourself and takeing out whatever you can plus civilians or sitting in a helicopter lanching a missile at a car that is suspected to have a oposistion leader in it and take out civilians on the area too?
and btw the jews kill more civillians then a few and its not by accident its more out of being purposely careless.
do I hate the jews? no but I know for a fact they are not innocent in this by a long shot

you dont hear about the zionist mallitia's that do there own little terrists bombings and assasinations too

and these mallitia's do go into like the "stern gang" go into villiges and massicre unarmed civillians by the hundreds.

so if you get both sides of the story you will see they both commit acts of terrorism just the jews get more media coverage in their favor



posted on Mar, 2 2004 @ 11:23 PM
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I don't care what side you are on. There are some on both sides who do not care that the other side consists of brothers.

The jews are a non existent race as well. There is no point to this debate. There is wrong on both sides and the whole situation needs to end.

But that can not happen. Hate is breed in the human heart, not just on one side of a battlefield.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 02:04 PM
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KrazyJethro: "And when it comes to wars, Isreal has won everyone, and that is why the Arabs cry so much."

Er, didn't they RUN out of Lebanon after they were whipped? Say, that's a loss.


jakomo



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 03:33 PM
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noctu, as soon as someone presents any evidence of secretive evil jews running into palestinian villages and killing "hundred" of people i'll consider your post more valuable than a post on casseopia.

jethro, you are correct in stating that jews are a nonexistent race. this is because they are actually a religion. i believed that to be common knowledge.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
Ok, Isreal puts up a wall to try and keep the terrorists at bay. The terrorists try to take them to court, but no one shows up. One question, why are the terrorists allowed to do this?

America is attacked once, we start two wars. Isreal is attacked daily, and the US tells them not to attack. US attacked once and they pass all these new laws, put up better defenses, put up better security checks and say it ok. Isreal attacked daily and when they put a wall up the terrorists take them to a world court.

if they get attacked once?



i bet you're an arab-hating jew... face it, your sugar-daddy (The U.S) doesn't really care anymore, since..all you guys ever ask for is support and money, patience might prove to be a non-renewable resource

it's every man for himself soon... no1 cares, since every country supporting israel has it's hands full.
geographically...looking at israel from a strategic point of view? you wouldn't last long.
get off your whining butt and try to understand that the U.S won't be holding you by the hand forever, and when the time comes? israel will probably take out as much collateral damage (causing unnecessary deaths) as hitler did...
so tell ya what, read both sides of the story for once, this goes out to any other "condemnation with no investigation" hypocrites out there.

u better be a zionist or smthng, i dont want my high and mighty mood wasted



[Edited on 3-3-2004 by Cyrus]



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 07:49 PM
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Originally posted by Djarums
noctu, as soon as someone presents any evidence of secretive evil jews running into palestinian villages and killing "hundred" of people i'll consider your post more valuable than a post on casseopia.

jethro, you are correct in stating that jews are a nonexistent race. this is because they are actually a religion. i believed that to be common knowledge.

oh so you dont agree on the number of killings eh yeah well in a lot of cases when it come to how many deaths happend in these things the numbers will vary between sources.
as far as the zionist mallitia's and weather they exist you can go here and read about irgun en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:05 PM
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Cyrus, I am not a jew, and do not hate arabs. I hate terrorists, and it just happens that the middle eastern arabs seem to be more terrorist inclined than others. The Arabs in America don't go around blowing school buses and hospitals up like the so called "poor helpless" palestinians.

Anyways, the Jews, while not a race, exist. Just like christians are not a race, but they exist. Palestinians, well, one could say there use to be palestinians, but there never was a Palestine, for they were a nomadic people, never stayed in one place for long.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by James the Lesser
Cyrus, I am not a jew, and do not hate arabs. I hate terrorists, and it just happens that the middle eastern arabs seem to be more terrorist inclined than others. The Arabs in America don't go around blowing school buses and hospitals up like the so called "poor helpless" palestinians.

Anyways, the Jews, while not a race, exist. Just like christians are not a race, but they exist. Palestinians, well, one could say there use to be palestinians, but there never was a Palestine, for they were a nomadic people, never stayed in one place for long.


Perhaps you should go tell them that. They are a group of people with very little option. I am sure that if we had backed up Palestine and not Israel, it would be the same thing in reverse.

Like I said, hate is breed on both sides of this fence.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 09:41 PM
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1. After WWII the jews from europe were given land (now Israel)... which happened to already be inhabited by people, the Palestinians and other Arabs... (which obviously pissed them off)... how would you like it if they gave a chunk of the USA to the Iraqi refugees and claimed it a new sovereign state?

2. The Israelis then proceeded to occupy more palestinian land using terrorism (yes israel was suicide bombing before the arabs were), military force and just making settlements deep in palestinian territory...(which ocviously pissed them off even more)

3. The Palestinians fight back and are dubbed terrorists and any funds to support their cause are illegal... but you can support Israel's killing of innocent plaestinians because they are a recognised state which makes it ok. and because Israel are Jewish anything said against them is instantly Anti-Semetic and not allowed...

Both sides are at fault but the support israel gets from other nations is what is wrong... they both are as bad as each other and either support both sides or neither...

Personally i'm going for the underdogs in this one.



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 09:52 PM
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May want to read this:
"History Isn't on the Palestinians' Side:
Arafat's strategy is suicidal in more ways than one"

www.netanyahu.org...

Excerpt:

"For all the efforts of our contemporary theorists to harness and sometimes refashion history, the facts of the past belong to no one--and won't go away. Those who conjure it up often discover to their dismay that they themselves are subject to its brutal laws of truth. The Palestinians are fast learning of history's ironies and unintended reminders, as they seek to invoke the past to convince Americans of the righteousness of their present plight. Take the idea of the occupation of Arab lands since 1967, which the Palestinians now cite as a singular historical grievance that needs immediate rectification through intervention of the U.S. But sadly occupation and partition are the bastard children of war; and history, rightly or wrongly, is not kind to states that repeatedly attack their neighbors--and lose.

Ask the millions of poor Germans who had their ancestral lands confiscated by Poland and France--and their country subsequently partitioned for a half century. Why do the Russians still occupy portions of the old Japanese homeland decades after the surrender? How is it that the British won't give up Gibraltar long after their successful battles against the Spanish fleet? And why must the world give far more attention to Palestine than it does to Tibetans, Irish and Chechens?

The situation on the West Bank is not only commonplace in history's harsh calculus, but prevalent even throughout the Arab world today. Right next door in Lebanon, Syria controls far more Arab land than does Israel. And if Palestinians suffer second-class citizenship under Israeli occupation, they are worse off in occupied Lebanon where, as helots, they are denied basic rights to employment, health care and government services.

Kuwait ethnically cleansed all Palestinians--perhaps a third of a million--just a decade ago. Well after the 1967 Six Day War, the Jordanians themselves slaughtered thousands. Before the intifada more Palestinians sought work in a hated Israel than in a beloved Egypt. History suggests that there is more going on in Palestine than the morality of occupation....."


"Exposing Lies and Myths about Israel"
pnews.org...

Excerpt:

"The truth is that Palestine is no more real than Never-Never Land. The first time the name was used was in 70 A.D. when the Romans committed genocide against the Jews, smashed the Temple and declared the land of Israel would be no more. From then on, the Romans promised, it would be known as Palestine. The name was derived from the Philistines, a Goliathian people conquered by the Jews centuries earlier. It was a way for the Romans to add insult to injury. They also tried to change the name of Jerusalem to Aelia Capitolina, but that had even less staying power.

Palestine has never existed -- before or since -- as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland.

There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of 1 percent of the landmass.

But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today. Greed. Pride. Envy. Covetousness. No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough."




regards
seekerof



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by Seekerof
May want to read this:
"History Isn't on the Palestinians' Side:
Arafat's strategy is suicidal in more ways than one"

www.netanyahu.org...

"Exposing Lies and Myths about Israel"
pnews.org...

regards
seekerof


The historical card works for Israel pulling the holocaust line (now i'm not anti-semetic please dont get me wrong but i am anti-israel), the black americans using the past segregation card, native americans, aboriginal australians... the list goes on of people usign the history card to gain sympathy to a cause or reap benefits, or deflect criticism... the world is a hypocritical place...

[Edited on 3-3-2004 by Seekerof]



posted on Mar, 3 2004 @ 10:15 PM
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im only going to say this once. please help to deny your ignorance by correcting "nonexistent" by replacing it with "unnationalistic"

what that means is that they ARE a race of humans, like you and me, but without a nation that represents them. Just because whether or not some of them were nomadic, does not automatically make them nonexistent in terms of race.

If what you are saying is applicable, that would mean that the american population is mostly a nonexistent race. The majority of the population stems from nomadic people, because that's who the explorers were and thats who the settlers were. Our population features europeans, who were mostly nomadic for a long time, for one thing. People migrate all of the time. That does not automatically determine or negate their race.

Your argument can also apply to Israelis. Judiasm is a religion that originally came from a mixture of Egyptian, Babylonian, and Sumerian societies. The religion itself probably adapted over time from the influences of other civilizations as they bloomed, such as the Grecian and Roman ones. They are not a race alone and by themselves, as they belong to a belief system. Jewish people come from all kind of racial backgrounds, and to say that a jewish person is of a different race than others is the same as saying a catholic person is a different person than others.



posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 07:09 AM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
1. After WWII the jews from europe were given land (now Israel)... which happened to already be inhabited by people, the Palestinians and other Arabs... (which obviously pissed them off)... how would you like it if they gave a chunk of the USA to the Iraqi refugees and claimed it a new sovereign state?

2. The Israelis then proceeded to occupy more palestinian land using terrorism (yes israel was suicide bombing before the arabs were), military force and just making settlements deep in palestinian territory...(which ocviously pissed them off even more)

3. The Palestinians fight back and are dubbed terrorists and any funds to support their cause are illegal... but you can support Israel's killing of innocent plaestinians because they are a recognised state which makes it ok. and because Israel are Jewish anything said against them is instantly Anti-Semetic and not allowed...

Both sides are at fault but the support israel gets from other nations is what is wrong... they both are as bad as each other and either support both sides or neither...

Personally i'm going for the underdogs in this one.


1. The very next day after Israel was formed, they were attacked by the Arab nations. Israel was not the aggressor there.

2. Do you have any links regarding that information?

3. Israel targets Terrorists, "soldiers" if you want to use that term. They don't go and fire a missle into a bus full of civilians. Israel always tries to minimize innocent casualties while the suicide bombers always try to maximize them.



posted on Mar, 4 2004 @ 11:07 AM
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Jewish people come from all kind of racial backgrounds, and to say that a jewish person is of a different race than others is the same as saying a catholic person is a different person than others.


It is particularly sad and tiresome that 90% of people here do not understand that concept. I guess you're still stuck on the whole "Jews are a race" idea. Maybe that makes it easier to group people together? Works well for people who have no point and nothing to say.

Now, about the last point... you're right there is a difference between the Israelis targeting people that are known to have been instrumental in the murder of their people, and the extremists targeting children and busses of people on their way to work. It doesn't matter though, no one cares. It has become excusable in "world opinion" for the extremists to attack civilians because the "Israelis made them do it." However, it is not excusable for Israel to want to attack the very people that were involved in murdering their citizens. That is considered continuing the circle of violence, whereas bombing kids is considered a reaction.



[Edited on 3-4-2004 by Djarums]



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