Serial Killer Team Drowning Victims Across The Country

This is quite a likely possibility, however the targets don't seem to possess anything in common with one another other than (apart from one or two victims) being in a place that is frequented by young and extrovert individuals.

It may be the case that we've put too much credit to these [profanity], and they are infact a bunch of [profanity] who refuse to accept that they cannot have everything and because of it, refuse to leave other people in peace.

Disturbing is the possibility that these people are frequenting these hot spots of social activity and selecting individuals for their particular brand of entertainment.

They might not be an orthodox example of a cult, but they may exhibit certain traits that cultists usually share.

The symbol they leave - the smiley, is perhaps an important clue; They may be communicating using the internet, whether by an Ethernet subsystem or the actual WWW is unknown.

*pauses*

Oh dear... i'm getting some nasty ideas about this one...

*recalls a post made about how some crime would be committed, and would give the authorities an excuse to force ISP's to comply with their demands*

[edit on 28-4-2008 by Anti-Tyrant]

Thanks FrankenChrist for making me THINK!!

I'm also thinking it is some sort of cult, but not sure what to make of the "torture" comments from Jenkins' mother. Emotional / mental torture of some kind?

I am curious to know the other tagging that was found. Also, a caller on C2C mentioned some info about the Son of Sam. Apparently Berkowitz mentioned that he was part of some underground satanic cult that had ties to the midwest and Wisconsin. I've seen it mentioned in online articles but that could be aload of bull. I just have a strange feeling that when more details come out our minds will reel. I hope the retired detectives pass the cases onto active detectives. The idea of a network of murderers communicating online is crazy and scary, but I suppose possible.

[edit on 4/28/2008 by shockedonlooker]

I dont think its a "gang" or "cult". I think its a "club".


I think they compare kills and compete with eachother. This is a sport to them. I dont see anything (so far) that is ritualistic.

the news clippings are the trophy.

but thats just my opinion.

mmmmmokay, so do you think that choosing men of the same age, type and build levels the playing field so to speak? Do you feel men were chosen to make it more of a challenge? Maybe there are pre-set rules to this club. I can't think of any other crime cases where grown men were singled out exclusively as victims is what I mean. Boys, yes. It's strange that these were all similar men.

Perhaps the perps felt that they would be too threatening to women and have a better chance luring a guy by befriending the victim at the bar by playing pool/ darts, buying drinks or whatever. When I dated, GBH wasn't even heard of yet. If this is possibly used, I guess females are taught not to accept drinks from men they don't know or be careful about accepting drinks from the opposite sex altogether. Out of that scene for long time and would not know. Maybe young men would not suspect that their own drinks could be laced with the stuff.

It's possible the perps never entered a bar and victim was abducted outside on the way home. One or two reports mention victim seen with unidentified male before disappearing, so maybe both were used.

Gotta sleep, hope to learn more this week.

The cult claims for the son of sam murders are interesting, but I still say that he cannot be trusted.



He was a lunatic plain and simple. I believe he worked alone. I believe his dog story.... why else would he use a .44 caliber Charter Arms Bulldog.

I think the idea of a cult, or some group that you just happen to be able to join is a just..... fantasy.

A more realistic duo can be found here. Crime Library

Notice how easy it was for them to meet and escalate their crimes. There is also talk of a cult, but I believe it was embellishment.

If there is a killer(s) in these crimes, chances are they are much like Lucas and Toole, only organized and very intelligent.

I would like to search the news records for various crimes near the drowning sites. Arson, robbery, etc. The one mention of a victims cell phone beside a stolen car was very interested when you compare it to Lucas and Toole. I guess it could also be fake staging.

A very smart serial killer(s) could also fake evidence to suggest gang activity.

To me, if there is a killer, they seem to be "breaking the rules". They don't fit a profile... like they are trying to NOT fit a profile.

These cases would be a nightmare in court.

An ATS member has alerted me to this case which is another suspicious drowning. It does not seem to fit in with the others, but I will list it anyway.



Source Article

According to this ATS thread, he supposedly could not swim, and according to family, would not go near water.

ATS Thread

There is going to be a report on this on ABC's Goodmoring America, on April 28th. In the teaser for it they showed the smiley faces.

Flag & star, great research, Dulcimer. I heard this interview on C2C the other night but haven't had a chance to check this case out thoroughly. It is fascinating. And I'm still working my way through this thread between earthquakes.. but I did want to mention that it appears to me that the "smiley face" is actually licking his lips, which is even creepier, for lack of a better word.

reply to post by Dulcimer

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Dulcimer,
Thats what I was getting at in my post about Toole and Lucas. They, unlike these perpetrators (single or group), just killed on instinct. They literaly had an IQ of a plant between them but a streak of devious behavior that is primative. I live in Connecticut. The reports on the student drowning case have been non-existant in these past months. This kid was brilliant. He grasped concepts most can't begin to understand. His professors have said he could have done anything in life he felt like doing. He did not simply stumble into that quarry. I worked for the company that owns that land and its not easy to get to it. Its not a regular hangout. The FBI needs to start a task force for these crimes and start crunching numbers and get some answers. Its only going to continue.
Zindo

About 3/4 way through that video report from kstp.com Kristi says the detectives have names of people in these "pods". Not sure if they mean real names or graffiti type tags.

In the original police report for Chris Jenkins, there is mention of a person's name (wont mention since he was apparently cleared) and that they confiscated this persons computer. His alibi was that he was playing Diablo II online. There has been mention about certain video games containing smileys, like Manhunt etc. I'm not a gamer, but sort of wondered if there was some suspicion about some group of online gamers who may have sinister motives. Just strange.

If the detectives have names, but they don't want to "scare the group underground" as mentioned in the video, then why all the media coverage? To find witnesses or push the FBI into opening a task force? I guess I don't understand why the FBI would dismiss this number of drowned men in the same age group etc anyway, especially since there could be many others (like the young man posted above) who might actually be a part of this group of drowning victims.

[edit on 4/28/2008 by shockedonlooker]

I tend to feel the same.. a club, the members compete... But not a large one. (Are you LEO?) What do you think about the fact that the victims are generally young, strong men-- ie., of a specific type and why?

And to the question on a previous post re: the film "Suspect Zero", yes, I've seen it and was also reminded of that film by this case. Great film, so well done. I highly recommend it.

Well, my post didnt show up. Dang internet lol So this will be a condensed version...

The detectives are coming forward in hopes that an agency picks it up from here. They are now broke and can't afford to investigate, other than go to the media now. The crimes are becoming bolder in nature as well with each drowning case. They are also upset the FBI hasnt taken this seriously. And finally, they just want all police departments to look at drowning cases differantly than how most have been handled within the last 15 to 20 years.

Visit their web site at National Investigations

Some people are now sending money to the and volunteering their time in what ever way they can.


With regards to the names they have, the detectives have talked with several witnesses, and have gained both street & real names of people who may know something. Unfortunatly as private citizens now, the detectives can only present what they have to the media and police departments in each city in hopes of some sort of coperation. They cant just go and arrest these people, even though they say they have enough evidence that if police looked at it a little better, this would be solved. 2 police departments (Minneapolis & La Crosse) have said publicly they are not interested in this because there is no serial killer per the FBI, and Minneapolis PD also stated recently they arn't interested in theories, only facts, but they wont even look at what the detectives have found.


As for the Jenkins case, I believe his ex-girlfriend knows more than what she is saying, partly based upon the police file I've read, and partly because of a recent interview in where Jenkins father made a comment, and while he didnt say it out-right, was pointing a finger at the ex & some of her friends. This was on the KSTP web site, but I'l have to find the exact link.

With regards to all these drownings, I've also learned that a total of 24 people in La Crosse, WI have been found dead in the river since 1974, with 8 in the last 11 years. They were all the same - at a bar, drinking, etc - just as in all these other cases, and each considered an accident.

I also found it interesting that in some cases, the BAC was high due to the water, and depending on how long they were in the water, it actually raised their level?? I did read somewhere that this can happen along time ago, but it came back to me again after reading about each of the 40 known victims. Some only had maybe a few drinks based on eyewitness reports, but the alcohol level was alot higher. Others who had no alcohol, it was reported as such.

And finally, I've also found that there are many drownings across the country that have happened in the same manor.

KSTP (Twin Cities) is doing a 3rd report tonight (Monday) on the 10pm news as well.

And for the record, C2C wasnt the first media oulet to break this case to the public . It was KSTP last Thursday (part 1 of the investigation, and hyped up for the entire week before hand), followed by the KQRS Morning show last Friday with the reporter. C2C was the first to bring it nationally, if you dont count the internet or Sirrus.

Just watched the new video on (ABC) KSTP - Twin Cities from the 6:00pm news. A 2nd Minnesota Collage Drowning Victim has now been linked to the Jenkins Case. Scott Radel was last seen on Feb 2006. His body was pulled from the Mississippi River days later.


Go to the KSTP home page, and look to the video player on the right. Wait until the title scrolls to "Jenkins, Parents speak out"

I am starting a new thread HERE. Pease review all the links I have provided previously, if you havnt already.


KSTP should be airing this again at the 10PM news I believe, in about 15 minutes.

[edit on 28-4-2008 by Spoontoad]

He was cleared for the time being, but things with that person dont add up. Maybe that's because there's no further info on the police file's. Same with the girlfriend. Something dont ad up.

I'm not one for conspiracy theories, but this whole thing is pretty bizarre. Started reading about this story today, and did a little research this evening. You wouldn't believe the number of cases of drownings of young, male, college-age students there have been in the last few years. There are also some creepy stories - haven't been able to verify the truthfulness of them yet - of kids getting drugged at bars near where some of these drownings happened. These kids claim to have been thrown off bridges by unknown assailants. Sounds a little far-fetched INHO. I found 7 or 8 additional cases not even included as part of the 40 in this case that could possibly fit - one from this weekend in Albany. What is weird is that all of the police/autopsy reports are the same: no sign of struggle. I don't know, even if I were completely plastered, I think I'd struggle quite a bit if I fell into a river. Lends credence to the theory that they could have been given GBH or Rohypnol. The Jenkins case is really scary - evidence suggests he was actually held down by somebody.

Forgot to add...this article has quite a bit of info but it's a bit dated. It does have some really interesting theories as to who the killer of some of these men could be.

www.crimelibrary.com... wisconsin/index.html

Feel free to add any of your research jerry2a.

I have not done any reading today, but I heard about a body being recovered in Nova Scotia of a young man that was missing.... found, you guessed it. In the water.



Source

Very strange disappearance.



Source

I am not saying it is related, but all these stories just remind me.

reply to post by shockedonlooker

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Interesting... I'm still working my way through all the information, but...

archives.umc.org... Thinking about the cross on the forehead of the smiley face... the cross symbolizes "an outward sign of sorrow and repentance for our sins". And apparently there are numerous "dictionaries" of smiley face emoticons online. A smiley face licking its lips means "delicious".

I totally agree, as someone upthread mentioned, a lot of wasted paper on the report. I also didn't believe the girlfriend Rice's comments that there was no tension between she and Chris at the Halloween party, especially if he suspected her of stealing money from him. Sounded more like they were avoiding each other. The whole deal with the boss making death threats to a previous boyfriend didn't sit to well either. What did you make of the hole in the plaster wall? Chris punching a hole in anger over gf or maybe one of room mates being drunk and doing it? Seems strange the other girl was afraid to stay the night there...

[edit on 4/29/2008 by shockedonlooker]