Serial Killer Team Drowning Victims Across The Country

Yeah a serial killer section would be great. I dont know if you listened to a "best of" C2C about month ago,(it was recorded like 6 years ago) I suggested to Art to open a serial killer line. It just creeped out Art and he never did it

Great thread. A couple things really sort of stick in my mind though, that make me question whether these deaths are all related.

1) Not a strong enough link with the smiley face. (Though the deaths that do include such a link are very suspicious.)

2) The reports of all the drunk men being rescued from water or seen in the water that did not end in a drowning.

Apparently, walking out on ice when you are drunk, or going for a swim when drunk or otherwise intoxicated is a pretty common occurrence. I can remember quite a few beach parties when growing up that involved drunken swims out into the ocean. Definitely NOT very smart.

Here is a whole list of YouTube videos showing young healthy males, in a presumably NON-intoxicated state trying very hard to fall through the ice.

www.youtube.com...

And googling "Man rescued after a fall through ice" brings up quite a list of stories.

As does "drunk man rescued from river" (or lake or pond) without mentioning ice.

Although I am absolutely NOT discounting the possibility of it being a human serial killer in some cases, I think that the sheer volume of cases and the similarity in the manner of death alone can be accounted for without their needing to be any murderer involved.

The combination of intoxication from alcohol, youth, and testosterone seems lethal enough to explain the pattern.

Just some random thoughts on this.... (as I haven't had a chance to actually write this all out to find some connections...)

- Is there any pattern linked between the dates that each victim went missing? Such as an interval of time?

- Do we have access to knowing what ALL the street names were? Not just the Sinsiniwa Street? (The reason i ask, as there were signs on one of the links which showed: Smith Street, Wall Street, Sinsiniwa Street...perhaps the name of the street found at One crime scene, is the name of the street of the NEXT crime scene?)

- If it is a group murder...perhaps the group moves around...maybe one of them enrolls in university, targets the victim, and get's close with them, and then the group commits the crime...??

- It is is possible that it is a single person. One person, who is disgruntled with their present life-situation. They could be unhappy to not be a "Class 1 Student, Jock, Good Marks etc...." and as a result, targets an athelete, someone who is "bettering" (i use this term loosely, because different people have different ways of self-satisfaction) their life, and is going to have a promising "carreer??" possibly?

- It could be a group of girls. Perhaps girls who "knew" these guys and are upset with them? (This is a bit of a stretch...) But. (As far as we know, there was no struggle...There are no witnesses who recall hearing/seeing anything. Perhaps these guys were "going home" with a girl...and thats why there was no commotion? Or perhaps, he was on his way home, ran into a girl. And took her up on an offfer and ended up in the river?

These are just some random ideas...Any other ideas?

To the poster who said that it might just be a tragic combination of youth, drink and testostorone which causes these men to die, (which i agree is a possibilty), wouldnt the people that fit this scenario be with a group of other people?

These people are dissapearing first. I honestly cant think of anyone no matter how drunk they are going swimming by themselves at nite....and with no one they were with knowing.

Are the victims found clothed????

I think adding a serial killer or even just a crime section is a great idea!!!!!

[edit on 27-4-2008 by drock905]

I thought about this too. Or a girl could be used as "bait". Speaking from a guys point of view. With a little bit of ETOH in me , it would be hard to not go after some cute booty.

Just the "smiley face" its self looks like every smiley face every girl in high school ever drew on their Trapper Keeper.

its alittle cliche but maybe theres a "satanic cult" responsible for this. No one has gotten away yet. Which leads me to think it must be some sort of well organized group. Not just one person.

Very creepy

Maybe its a group of people that networks over the internet.....


I mean we all use "smileys"

I would like to have all the smiley face evidence, and any of the nick names or call signs that the detectives have.

If this is a group that communicates over the internet, I would love to research and cross reference. There are a lot of strange sites out there.

This is a stretch, but if the detectives are out there reading this, feel free to sign up and post your thoughts on all these cases.

For me, I do not have enough to go on to make any good connections, but from what I have read, there is just too much to ignore.

I can think of a few cities along rivers with high populations of students that have not had this type of drowning occuring. The sheer number of students that drowned is very odd. I can understand a few accidents, but this is just strange.


If anyone wants to help research this, see what articles you can find online containing references to the possible victims in the lists provided.

Also, try searching for other possible occurrences of drownings involving students and alcohol being a factor. I would like to research more into Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario in Canada. Ontario would probably be the best bet if there is anything related in Canada. I have my doubts about Canadian activity though.



Here is one strange Canadian story.



Source Article

This seems so out of the ordinary for a person like this... I cannot see them even getting in trouble on the streets. Very odd.

Even if you discount half of them are drunken frat boys who just happened to fall into the river and drown, then that is still a decent amount of deaths that could be explained by other means. I agree that we could use a serial killer or forensic type section here on ATS.

As far as if these are murders, there are tons of possible motives. I knew quite a few drunken frat guys in my college days and believe me I think we all know how they can act from time to time. You could have someone holding a grudge over success or popularity, over alcoholism, etc. Could be someone that sees their drinking as a sign of ruining the life of someone that could be promising.

Very very well put, star and flag.

This is my first post, but I just had to ask this question: does anyone think there may be a connection between these deaths and the many deaths of microbiologists over the past decade? I've been wondering if all these deaths/murders are terrorist-related in some way? Also, the recent death of Kelly Nolan (a UW student, microbiology major) raises my suspicions as well. I'm not sure who's responsible for these deaths--but whether it's an organization or an individual, it appears that they are very organized, purpose-drive, and patient.

I've been doing some research on this all day, and wanted to share this links:

Footprints At The River's Edge

It's interesting to read and find out more info on the victims them selves. There are 2 others from the Twin Cities area who went missing as well, 1 of which has never been found. The twist with those 2 (Rossini, and Edberg) is that both lived near by each other, and both of the mothers work at the same school.


I expect this case to become a bigger story this week.

[edit on 27-4-2008 by Spoontoad]

Thanks for posting that blog link. I was reading it the other day and forgot to add it to my thread. Thanks.

There is some good reading on there.

Your welcome. I agree it is some good reading. I dont even know how I stumbled upon it, but I know Iwas doing some massive Googleing

I'm also reading the Minneapolis Police Report regarding Jenkins. I'm on page 26 of the 50 page file. If no one has read it, or at least skimmed thru it, look it over. The first few pages are pretty standard stuff, but it gets interesting. You can view the documents Here.
It's in a PDF format.

Unfortunatly, these 2 detectives havn't given out awhol lot of info, but I wouldn't mind reading police reports from all the other drowning cases. I think that could give us some more insight.

And a little off topic, an area / forum for stuff like this would be great. I know I like to put my brain to work in these things.


Edited for spelling - I need new keyboard



[edit on 27-4-2008 by Spoontoad]

A couple of things about reports that don't add up. Some reports mention torture, yet these are not ruled homicides...what kind of "torture"?

from this link :

"Also uncovered by Chuck Loesch was a self-proclaimed serial killer who was living in Minneapolis around the time of the disappearances. Police have never questioned the man who, in September 2002, dialed 9-1-1 and demanded police send the FBI to his home to profile him or he'd go on a killing spree.

The man told authorities he fantasizes about abducting straight young men, suffocating them with Saran Wrap and then killing them, and that he identifies with Jeffrey Dahmer.

Police have never identified the man but revealed, "His fantasy was to go across the country picking up males between the ages of 16 and 30 and befriending them. He stated that he would then kill them by suffocating them, drowning or burning them." "

and

"May 01, 2002
Accused clergy remain at St. John's Abbey,
schools Abbot releases information to end 'culture of secrecy'
that aids abuse

ASSOCIATED PRESS

COLLEGEVILLE, Minn. -- Thirteen to 15 monks or priests live and work under restrictions at St. John's Abbey after being accused of or admitting to sexual abuse, the abbot for the monastery said.

The number represents about 7 percent of the 196 monks and priests affiliated with the monastery and nearby St. John's University, a preparatory school and a religious press.

Restrictions vary for the men, but they include keeping them off college or prep school grounds and out of university athletic facilities.

Abbot John Klassen, who has led the monastery in central Minnesota for 17 months, said he has been reviewing abuse allegations and wants to "clear the decks.''

He didn't offer a precise number of clergy who are restricted, in part because the types of cases vary. Klassen said the alleged victims were mostly boys ranging in age from 12 to 17, in incidents that took place in the 1970s.

. . . Klassen earlier sent a letter to St. John's University officials and students revealing abuse allegations against a former abbot, the Rev. John Eidenschink.

Klassen said he sent the letter because he wanted to put an end to "a culture of secrecy that makes sexual abuse and exploitation possible." He said the allegations had never been discussed, even within the monastery.

Eidenschink, who served as abbot from 1971-1979, was in poor health at the monastery and wasn't available for comment.

Klassen has made public eight other names: Cosmos Dahlheimer, Richard Eckroth, Finian McDonald, Brennan Maiers, Dunstan Moorse, Allen Tarlton, Fran Hoefgen and John Kelly.

Each has had "credible allegations'' levied against them, and -- except for Dahlheimer and Eckroth -- has acknowledged wrongdoing and sought treatment, Klassen said. "

What would accused clergy at St. John's Abbey have to do with this case? Anyone remember the unsolved priest murder in Wisconsin a few years back? from article here

"There are, of course, at least a few theories about who, or what, might have been behind Kunz's murder. The prominent theory is that Kunz was killed because he "knew too much." About what? About the sexual misconduct of some men of the cloth. Men who were able to cover up their misdeeds for years, even decades. Men who formed the underbelly of the American church.

A significant aspect of that underbelly is the homosexual network, a network that has existed for a long time but is seldom if ever discussed in politically correct circles. Actively homosexual priests who seek to destroy the Church from within. This is the homosexual network. "Never underestimate the power of this network," Kunz reportedly once told a close associate. "

[edit on 4/28/2008 by shockedonlooker]

My post above: I don't understand why the author of the page would include the info about the priests in with the information about the victims of this smiley face thing, that's weird! Sorry if the info seems unconnected, I am just trying to understand why the original author would include that part in with everything else, then I remembered the murdered priest.

One more thing, in published reports thus far, it's mentioned that the victims have not been sexually abused...

how would this possibly be known after they have been in the water for so long?

I've read theories about GBH possibly being added to drinks etc to make the victim helpless, any ideas about that?

The serial killer section sounds like a great idea and I've enjoyed reading all of your thoughts.

Okay, I'm done. Just a few things that make no sense to me... and Ian Punnett did an awesome job of featuring this case on coast2coast Friday night. He promises to keep informing us as it breaks and the callers had a lot of interesting things to say, so check that out if you are a night owl like me!

[edit on 4/28/2008 by shockedonlooker to add GBH info]

[edit on 4/28/2008 by shockedonlooker]

Evidence of sexual assault on a male is the tearing of the anus. Also Im sure if they even suspected any type of sexual assault they would have performed a rape kit on the victim. That consists of swabing the mouth and the anus to find spermatazoa.

And you can still retrieve sperm from a body that has been in the water for weeks.

The story broke on Coast to Coast this weekend and will probably go national this week.....

Personally, I think its a cult - possibly religious, possibly Satanic, but some kind of cult whose target has been young men who are abducted after partying precisely because people would be less likely to consider them victims of murder....

OK, I read the full report on the Jenkin's case, and listened to the radio interview that was done one (link is below). After everything I have read & / or listened to, all that has been revealed is there are no signs of anything sexual, at least not publically. It also sounds as though it really doesn't have anything to do with sex. However, I have found 1 discrepancy.

A police report said a body was recovered in the cold water wearing only socks, shorts, and a shirt, but he was last seen wearing blue jeans, and more clothing that what he was found with.

As for Seran Wrap, from what I have found, it wont leave any obvious markings when used a certain way. Any markings that may be left will quickly be deformed within 12 to 24 hours due to the body being in water. I'll have to look and find the article.

Reporter Kristi Piehl interview on KQRS Morning Show

Not true all the time, you can cut through the dermis and see underlaying brusing that you cant see on the surface.

Yes, it will be on Good Morning America (ABC) on Monday am, (ABC)20/20 later this week. There is also a news conferance scheduled sometime Monday in New York regarding this.

From what I can see, this is the tip of the iceburg, but some new info and some conformation of things needs to come forward first. Like I said, the detectives havn't released all the information. Sounds like they wont either until an agency can pick it up from here. Only because the detectives have no rights really to pursue crimal charges and warrants, as they are both retired right now. One of the detectives even pulled out a 2nd mortgage, only because he was convinced 100% of what he found. These are things only the killer / gang would know of, and only found if there were this many hours looking at the whole country, not just focused on a city.

Also, if you havnt yet, check out the video of the 1st Reporter, John Mason, along with Kristi Piehl who took over the story when Mr Mason was put as an anchor.

KSTP: A story years in the making


[edit on 28-4-2008 by Spoontoad]

[edit on 28-4-2008 by Spoontoad]