Is it Really that Bad?, page 9

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reply posted on 30-4-2008 @ 02:13 AM by skyshow

reply to post by Amaterasu

Ok, I am 2:11 into the first segment of film one...and he is talking about Alaska oil field able to supply America for 200 years! What? ReallY? Every thing I have ever read about that resource says at best it woul last 6 months to a year or so, and barely put a dent in world oil prices...and I mean like a bunch of sources...Do we know where he got his data or anything about this guy's credibility?

Look if it's only 2 minutes into his presentation and he has me seriously doubting him because of his proclomation of how the Alaska reserve will save us all, I really must question the rest of anything he has to say, and really don't want to sink 80 minutes into a bunch of unsubstantial bunk...tell my I should?

reply posted on 30-4-2008 @ 10:54 AM by Amaterasu

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by Amaterasu

I haven't watched it...I'm guessing it's the series of clips at the beginning of your linked thread? I've got coast to coast on right now, and they were just talking about this very same issue so I haven't watched them yet, but will soon and see for further discussion.

As for the thread, we both agree things are really that bad though right? lol

Once you watch the presentation (yes, all segments are in order in that first post) you may have a wider view of things.

And, yes. Things are far worse than they appear on the surface.

reply posted on 30-4-2008 @ 11:03 AM by Amaterasu

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by Amaterasu

Ok, I am 2:11 into the first segment of film one...and he is talking about Alaska oil field able to supply America for 200 years! What? ReallY? Every thing I have ever read about that resource says at best it woul last 6 months to a year or so, and barely put a dent in world oil prices...and I mean like a bunch of sources...Do we know where he got his data or anything about this guy's credibility?

Um... I know he takes a while to get rolling, he is a preacher, after all, so he builds his point as one who has a bunch of sleepy parishioners that he needs to wake up. But it's worth it.

Of COURSE you have heard that there is not much oil up there. They don't want us to think about that option. But this guy was invited to sit in on IMF meetings, spent three years with the Big Shots there. I think he has a clue.

Look if it's only 2 minutes into his presentation and he has me seriously doubting him because of his proclomation of how the Alaska reserve will save us all, I really must question the rest of anything he has to say, and really don't want to sink 80 minutes into a bunch of unsubstantial bunk...tell my I should?

If you reject his statements merely because someone else told you something differently, in this world of conspiracies and greed, you are in trouble.

The fact is, this man, WHO WAS THERE, knows the truth of what is there. But he's not suggesting that the Alaska oil is any solution. Watch the whole dam' thing, I say. Or not.

[sigh]

reply posted on 30-4-2008 @ 09:24 PM by regeya

reply to post by burdman30ott6

Heh, I grew up in the 80s, and I would love for my grandma (who lived through the Great Depression) to see you categorize the 80s as 'tough.' She categorized our generation as 'spoiled' and 'lazy' and after hearing things my parents said about their childhood lives I'd say that's true. I agree that the 90s were a magical fairlyland compared to the 70s and 80s, though. I had no videogame console, not even a 2600, and never have. I've had a computer since '86 and still have my first one in the closet.

Most people I see commenting on the current situation seem to ignore both American and human history. One commentator referred to the possibility of a Depression as the coming of the SECOND depression. Hm, I guess all those others don't count...it's not even the first time we've been under threat of depression due to a real estate bubble. One depression toward the beginning of the 19th century was due to that, and there were several periods classified as a 'depression' in that century.

And human history: Famine, disease, war, earthquakes, foul weather, etc. have always been with us. Those of you raised with a strong Christian background have probably been thinking about 'End Times'; well, we've been in the 'End Times' for about 2000 years now. Is this the end? If evangelicals stop thumping on a Bible long enough to read it, you'll know the answer is 'I don't know.'

The tragedy of the current crisis is that it's not so much an ecological disaster as it is a human-created disaster. The parts of the world suffering the most are large populations living in the desert, war zones, or both; and in places like China, where the economy is booming, well, that part of the world is given to disaster. It certainly doesn't help that

Corn ethanol is getting a beating, but have you noticed that America's output of that particular grain has DOUBLED? Holy moly. Part of that is at the expense of the aquifer that feeds west Kansas, which is another reason we need to do away with that particular subsidy, but the mere fact that we can DOUBLE our corn output during a period of Earth history given to drought is nothing short of amazing.

Troubling, though, is that we rely heavily on a small number of crops. Scientists have been warning us for years about that, and now some staples are coming under fire of "rust" and other blights. Time to innovate, in a hurry, and time to get those developed nations to stop banning GM foods.

The most tragic bit about the food crisis is that, even factoring out people living in deserts, in countries that got lazy about ag, and countries in turmoil, there's been mismanagement of croplands, an overdependence on chemicals, and so on, it's largely a financial one. With the housing market bottoming out and banks determined to not cut their losses, and with the various central banks bailing 'em out, hedgefunds, 401k plans, etc. are pumping their money into commodities causing the food prices to skyrocket. There's almost no need for as many people to go hungry as there are, other than to save a few peoples' wealth.

Finally, how many of us posting on the board have known a single day without the thread of nuclear annihilation?

And climate change? Read up on some paleoclimatology and tell me the current conditions are bad.

Is the potential for disaster high? Yes. Are there too many humans? Yes. Is it that bad? I don't think so, and so far it's not that bad for my family, but I also don't think it's great.

Now, damn this global warming, I need to put on another layer of clothes to stay warm...

reply posted on 30-4-2008 @ 11:08 PM by regeya

Originally posted by morthn1waytoskinacat
I have only read about 75% of these posts, but it seems no one has brought up the so called global warming crisis. I vaguely remember (I was pretty young at the time) the ptb telling us in the 70's that we were headed for another ice age, anyone remember that? Now we are overheating.....no wait, we are cooling down......maybe...

Ayep...I've been reading some fairly credible sources who say that it's still the case that the weather oddities we've seen over the last few years is due to cooling, and that even localized warming can be attributed to less cloud cover and (in some cases) ground thermometers being too close to urban areas, skewing the results toward the desired result. Earth's most common state is a barren icy wasteland, and during historic (meaning previous ages) times of plenty, the CO2 levels are so high that we're CO2-starved right now by comparison. Now there's something to fear.

Either way, I have fear and respect for what the future brings.

I feel for the people who've posted in this thread who are truly going through rough times, but keep in mind a few things:

Things are bad now, and they could get worse, but they could also get better. Preparedness is a good thing, an awareness that some things can't be prepared for is just as good, and refusing to live in fear and instead clearing your mind and thinking critically, skeptically, yet optimistically is best.
Part of what led to the situation was a strong dollar, which boosted reliance on imports. The dollar is weak now, and we still depend on imports. That can change. Bug your elected officials. They're not all bad people.
Most the sources I see who claim food shortages are due to climate change are either American MSM or the U.N. What, you'll believe them when the news is dire? Media reports I've seen OUTSIDE the U.S. seem to suggest this is even more evil, as in hedge funds, 401(k) plans, etc. hedging on commodities to save wealth are causing others to starve.
Again, you'll believe the U.N., U.S. Gov't, U.S. Mainstream Media, if it's a dire prediction like global warming? Our CO2 emissions aren't causing a warming trend. Compared to paleoclimate data, we're in a normal trend, our atmosphere is right where it needs to be, and our CO2 emissions are a pittance compared to what goes into the atmosphere via natural process. Not that that's an excuse to stop polluting! There are plenty of bad things we pump into the air that we shouldn't need the shadowy fear of 'global warming' on our side.
As far as mainstream media goes, CNN says it's bad, FOX says it's peachykeen, so I'm guessing it's a garden-variety recession. Those are still bad. Add to that the need (NEED!) to create jobs as quickly as possible and a staggering debt to pay off...ugh, I think I need a drink.
Ethanol is not solely to blame for high fuel and food prices. That cannot be stressed enough. However, you still need to bug your elected officials to get behind changes to the new farm bill which will cut corn subsidies and introduce a much higher cellulosic ethanol subsidy.

No, I'm not dismissing the possibility (or current reality!) of a recession or even depression. I just reject the anecdotal evidence being "proof." If you're suffering, it's horrible and I will pray for your future endeavors (and if you're offended, tough stuff :-D ) I reject the notion that our government as a whole is working collabaratively to collapse itself, and if it does collapse, it will be due to massive incompetence.

Let's hope that some analysts are right and that we're on the verge of a second Green Revolution, with America at the forefront. We can hope, right?

p.s. Read some 20th century U.S. history. Some of you posting here saw times of less Constitutional freedom than now. And if you reject that, you must be a Communist!

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 12:37 AM by Amaterasu

reply to post by regeya

I grasp that you think thing may get a bit worse, or they may get better. I am here to tell you there are lizard-hearted forces set to annihilate you and me and billions of others.

If you really take a look at some of the links I have posted, I am hoping you will come to realize this.

Your evaluation comes from a perspective they have given you. When you are staring death from starvation, genmod bugs, "terrorist" nuclear attacks, HAARP-induced severe weather and earthquakes, "alien" invasions (mock), energy weapons that put many weapons you know about to shame, and much, much more...

But I am glad you are happy with how things are now, overall. Keep your loved ones close, and when the time comes, be ready to fight.

[edit on 5/1/2008 by Amaterasu]

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 01:08 AM by skyshow

reply to post by Amaterasu

Hey, yo...it wasn't "somebody" who told me...yo, it's in every single major publication that has a story on energy supplies and covers ANWR, maybe the "someobody" we should suspect as having faulty information is this screwball right wing nut pushing the GOP agenda to dril and for what? even if we used it 100% for our oil it would be all gone in less than a year...Look on the utube and read all the comments from the people, they say similar things...look it up on wikipedia...look at recent periodicals from any news source and NONE of them say 200 years of oil up there in that reserve. Now if in less than three minutes that's what this guy is saying, guess what? I'm not wasting 80 minutes of my life on him to see if he can convince me of something because his credibility has just been shot all to hell with me.

I'm not adverse to conspiricy theories, even far out ones, but man, this one is so far from actual factual data it isn't even worth exploring further. Sorry.

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 12:27 PM by Amaterasu

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by Amaterasu

Hey, yo...it wasn't "somebody" who told me...yo, it's in every single major publication that has a story on energy supplies and covers ANWR, maybe the "someobody" we should suspect as having faulty information is this screwball right wing nut pushing the GOP agenda to dril and for what? even if we used it 100% for our oil it would be all gone in less than a year...Look on the utube and read all the comments from the people, they say similar things...look it up on wikipedia...look at recent periodicals from any news source and NONE of them say 200 years of oil up there in that reserve. Now if in less than three minutes that's what this guy is saying, guess what? I'm not wasting 80 minutes of my life on him to see if he can convince me of something because his credibility has just been shot all to hell with me.

I'm not adverse to conspiricy theories, even far out ones, but man, this one is so far from actual factual data it isn't even worth exploring further. Sorry.

So you still have not watched it, I see. It is a concerted effort to hide these reserves. Many with "facts" were given these "facts" by people hiding the truth. And publications parrot what they're told by "official" sources.

Be that as it may, you can be stubborn and refuse to hear this guy out. But I will say again, he is NOT proposing that the Alaskan oil is any kind of a solution! In fact, what he has to say is important even if you stripped everything out about the Alaskan oil.

You would understand if you watch the whole thing. But don't. Your loss, no denial of ignorance on your part, I guess.

Anyway, unless you plan to watch the whole thing, I have very little to say further to you.

[edit on 5/1/2008 by Amaterasu]

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 03:07 PM by skyshow

reply to post by Amaterasu

who's in denial? His facts in the first three minutes are nat accurate, what makes one think the other 77 minutes are going to be any better?

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 03:48 PM by jackinthebox

reply to post by skyshow

Because his predictions are coming true, just in the past few weeks even. And it is only your opinion that the forst few minutes were not accurate. Do you honestly believe that you are told the truth in the MSM anyway? This guy is scared of being killed just to tell you the truth, and all you can say is that he is not accurate?

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 04:25 PM by skyshow

reply to post by jackinthebox

Ok, well if I am going to be a part of this discussion I guess I need to watch it in it's entirety. I have it on now...

Partdon my skepticism...these days it's getting harder and harder to know who to believe...

BTW: I heard on the Randi Rhoades show today marks the 5 year anniversary of George W. Bush dressing up in that flight suit and getting on an aircraft carrier a few miles off the coast of San Diego (cameras were pointing west at him with the wide open sea as a back drop to lead us to think he actually flew into harms way and was on a carrier in the mid-east...another deception) with the huge unfurled banner on the side of the ship saying "Mission Accomplished". Five years, thousands of our troups dead, tens of thousands more casualties and somewhere between several hundred thousand and a million Iraqi's dead...now $3 trillion later gas nearly $4 us.gal. & real (including food and energy) inflation going through the roof...Pres. Bush disaproval ratings about 71%.... it's bad.

[edit on 1-5-2008 by skyshow]

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 04:37 PM by jackinthebox

reply to post by skyshow

To be honest, I hope the guy is wrong, but it really all just fits together too well with all of the other things I have looked into over the years. And now his predictions are coming true just in the past few weeks or so. What a time to stumble across it.

EDIT to add: I remember people who made fun of other people who thought we might see 4 bucks a gallon.

[edit on 5/1/0808 by jackinthebox]

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 05:29 PM by BlackOps719

Originally posted by Jadette
I don't think that there's anyone here old enough to have lived through the Great Depression. But does anyone remember hearing from their grandparents about it? I do.

Unemployment was over 25%. Wages dropped by 50%. People starved. There wasn't any work to be had. My grandfather swept the sidewalks in front of this factory for a month(on his own, no one hired or paid him), hoping some day someone would notice what a hard worker he was and hire him. Fortunately, someone did.

People who had a little land that the bank didn't reclaim were fortunate. They could grow a little to eat and work with their neighbors to share and trade.

My grandmother, until the day she died, always had a garden that she grew vegetables and berries and such, making jam, jelly, soups and things.

I'm not sure that we know what it's like to struggle that hard to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table.

People were cut from a different stone back then. Those men and women were genuine hard asses. My grand dad quit school in the fifth grade because he had to stay home on the farm to tend the tobacco crops with his other eleven brothers and sisters. Families back then survived and thrived through the sweat of their brow and by sticking together. It was not uncommon to have entire families, meaning dozens of uncles and aunts, fathers and mothers and even grandparents all living within throwing distance of one another.

My grand dad would tell me stories of how they would work from pre sunlight all the way til dark every day in the fields and barns filling tobacco. They had men who lived in the barn with the mules and the chickens at night and would work all day in the fields in exchange for a hot meal and a drink of boot leg. They lived fifteen miles from the closest grocery store, which at that time may as well have been 100 miles. Anything they ate they either grew it, raised it or hunted /fished it themselves. They had a 100 acre farm and used every last inch of it to maintain self sufficiency and to guarantee survival. My grand dad was almost fifty years old the first time he ever set foot in a doctors office, and didnt want to go then..lol.

These people are the folks who built America. They are the types of people who made this country strong and built the character that made American men proud, up until around the 1960's when these types of people virtually went the way of the dinosaur. Americans these days, myself included, have no idea and no real concept of what it is to have to work hard and truly struggle to survive and feed a family. We want everything handed to us on a platter, and when the first sign of trouble arises we do what we know best - we complain.

My old man lived to be 78 years old, he worked himself to the bone his entire life, through hardships that I can barely even fathom. And not at one time, not even when sickness weakened him and took his life, did I ever once hear him complain about anything.

Different generation...different times....different values. Put the average American out there today and force them to feed and shelter themselves and they are dead within a week.

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 05:55 PM by Amaterasu

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by Amaterasu

who's in denial? His facts in the first three minutes are nat accurate, what makes one think the other 77 minutes are going to be any better?

Wrong. His facts don't add up to what you have been told. Haven't you been told that there are no issues with Aspartame? The accuracy is still unclear in less than 3 minutes of information. If you watched the whole of it you might suspect people with vested interest are lying. To understand why, you have to watch the whole thing.

Have a nice day.

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 07:44 PM by skyshow

reply to post by Amaterasu

Ok. I watched the whole thing. It seems like he is pretty much right on, but the facts still remain a little muddy regarding the actual amount in the north slope...back when they first discovered it they could have thought there was much more there than there actually is...it wouldn't be the first time...remeber about 8 years ago or so when the field around the Caspian was found and they thought it was huge and then it turned out it was only a small percentage of what originally was calculated?

Other than that, I found it interesting...he's a good speaker...and is he telling us something we didn't already know? I mean we know Bush took us from a massive surplus that Clinton admininistration achieved after Reagan/Bush drove the deficit to sky high levels, back to debt that dwarfs what his Dad and Ronnie did...we know about the IMF/World bank, we know that oil is the gold standard and has been for some time...we know about how Sadom dropped the dollar for the Euro...we know about Iran etc...

It's a great big huge mess that these guys have got us into...but he rests everything on the supposed solution being drill in ANWR and I think the joury is still out on that issue...unless there is some definitive proof that there is infact enough oil there to last us 200 years, and other than this one guy saying so, where is there other evidence?

reply posted on 1-5-2008 @ 10:55 PM by Amaterasu

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by Amaterasu

Ok. I watched the whole thing. It seems like he is pretty much right on, but the facts still remain a little muddy regarding the actual amount in the north slope...back when they first discovered it they could have thought there was much more there than there actually is...it wouldn't be the first time...remeber about 8 years ago or so when the field around the Caspian was found and they thought it was huge and then it turned out it was only a small percentage of what originally was calculated?

Sorry, I don't. Musta been looking elsewhere. But, having no data, certain thoughts come to mind. Initial false readings, interpretation error, OMG let's not let them know we have THIS much really...

[shrug]

It's a great big huge mess that these guys have got us into...but he rests everything on the supposed solution being drill in ANWR and I think the joury is still out on that issue...unless there is some definitive proof that there is infact enough oil there to last us 200 years, and other than this one guy saying so, where is there other evidence?

I wonder if he knew about the plan to hand us over as indentured slaves to the "Federal" Reserve (a private corporation).

EDIT to add: You asked, "...and other than this one guy saying so, where is there other evidence?" Well, he's written it in books...and I don't hear anyone debunking him. Just many saying differently. No one takes him head on.

You'd think if this was bunk, someone would want to prove it. And rather than draw attention to him, he just doesn't exist in the MSM.

Classic signs for matters of this magnitude.

[edit on 5/1/2008 by Amaterasu]

[edit on 5/1/2008 by Amaterasu]

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 05:58 AM by skyshow

reply to post by Amaterasu

Well, he's written it in books...and I don't hear anyone debunking him. Just many saying differently. No one takes him head on.

yeah, I mean he might be right on for all we know...I'm just saying that there isn't much showing up to back up his statements about the 200 years of reserves up there on the north slopes...but for all we know, he is right, and everyone else, and I do mean everyone else, is totally wrong...other than that...I do think he's really right on with it...and so, yeah, things are bad, and your beloved Republican President who stole the election in 2000 ran us into the freakin' dirt...can you atleast admit to that one?

reply posted on 2-5-2008 @ 11:13 AM by Amaterasu

Originally posted by skyshow
yeah, I mean he might be right on for all we know...I'm just saying that there isn't much showing up to back up his statements about the 200 years of reserves up there on the north slopes...but for all we know, he is right, and everyone else, and I do mean everyone else, is totally wrong...other than that...I do think he's really right on with it...and so, yeah, things are bad, and your beloved Republican President who stole the election in 2000 ran us into the freakin' dirt...can you atleast admit to that one?

Here's the thing. Although I have not researched, I am going to bet that if we go to these places that say there is little oil, if we find their sources, and keep following sources, all paths will end in a single source: The people who found the oil in the first place.

So. If I find 200 years worth of oil, and I tell all who are there with me to not say anything, and I say to the world, gee, there's a bit of oil here, but not much... What will you find in the publications?

Oh, and FYI, he's not MY president. [grin] Anyone who is MY president will, at the very least, have been properly elected. No voting machines with opaque code (2004 election stealing method). No election muddle in a state so bad the Supreme Court gets to appoint a Pres (2000 election).

And the goal was to take us for all we are worth, yes. Rack up debt and then give us, as indentured slaves to the lizard hearts at the "Federal" Reserve (a private corporation).

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 05:42 AM by skyshow

reply to post by Amaterasu

I gotcha...I didn't mean to accuse "you" per se' these are frustrating times with so many people still eating it all up hook line and sinker...but the Pres' dis-approval rating according to poll last week has it up at 81% So more and more are finally getting it...however the right wing political machine is hard at work trying to discredit and assasinate reputations from any candidate running on another ticket and decpite the masses seeing bush/cheney et.al. for what they are, unfortunately they aren't all connecting it up with the whole gestopel as it were (ie: GOP)...

Gas prices are at all time high, food at the grocery store has gone way up and shortages starting to be seen at costco and wal mart...not good signs at all....

[edit on 4-5-2008 by skyshow]

reply posted on 4-5-2008 @ 11:34 AM by Amaterasu

Originally posted by skyshow
reply to post by Amaterasu

I gotcha...I didn't mean to accuse "you" per se' these are frustrating times with so many people still eating it all up hook line and sinker...

Not a problem. [smile]

but the Pres' dis-approval rating according to poll last week has it up at 81% So more and more are finally getting it...however the right wing political machine is hard at work trying to discredit and assasinate reputations from any candidate running on another ticket and decpite the masses seeing bush/cheney et.al. for what they are, unfortunately they aren't all connecting it up with the whole gestopel as it were (ie: GOP)...

To be frank, it is bread and circuses, our election process. When all the Presidents are of royal blood, regardless of party, we must presume the outer garments of difference hide an identical agenda.

I have no faith in this "democratic" society - and especially if we use voting machines with opaque code. That is the biggest boon to election throwers ever devised (as witnessed in Ohio in 2004).

Gas prices are at all time high, food at the grocery store has gone way up and shortages starting to be seen at costco and wal mart...not good signs at all....

I suspect that if a Democrat was in office, we would have seen the same racking up of debt and then handing us over as indentured slaves to the "Feds."

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