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Is it Really that Bad?

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posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 02:27 AM
comparatively speaking, it depends on your income and race.

overall, I don't think it's as bad as starving to death in another country.

but when you start feeling things crawl through you after a massive outer ear infection, and then start having strange moving fibers and hexagon crystals and wires begin to emerge from your skin, no doctor will help you, your family and friends condemn you as having mental issues because of what you are describing to them, you loose your job and are covered with lesions and sores and your skin on your hands and feet start falling off in layers like latex, and the CDC and Army begin a nationwide investigation into thousands of exactly similar reports....

in that scenario, you have to say that , yeah.. it is pretty bad.

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 02:52 AM

Originally posted by jackinthebox
reply to post by burdman30ott6

I was homeless in the early 90's. Now I am homless again. I have less hope of recovering this time.

A nickel went further in those days, and tin-canning helped get me off the street. That is a futile effort these days. In fact there is even a law here in NY that you can't turn in more than 250 bottles a day.

Dude, I find it hard to believe someone could be homeless and here at the same time. In Texas friends take care of each other so you would have a place with me.

I hate to admit in my locale there is little evidence of the woes expressed here. The trickle effect has paid os in our petroleum industry. Every plant here is slated for expansion, In the past year my wages have increased $13.00 an hour. Not much beside the billions the "corporation" has raked in during the same period. Yep gas never dropped in price after the hurricane(big surprise).

As for the party arguements displayed here, I usually get sucked in rather quickly and get into long arguements. I will only say this! The Republican party set our nation up on the debt system because it benefitted them at the time. It put untold control in the upper class hands. This system by design was meant to fail, it is endless debt by design, it is why we are in the mindset we are in and trouble. If anyone doubts these claims start with the research of old hickory. Andrew Jackson the founder of the democratic party, That's where the Aristocrats -vs- the Democrat campaign started, as did the democratic party. It was only 150yrs ago. Henry Clay's desendants are still in power!

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 06:14 AM
I grew up in the 80's. My dad ran off and left us, so my mom went to work in a factory. We always had enough to eat. Enough to get by. The bills were paid. We had medical.

Fast forward into the 90's. My husband worked in the factory, had excellent insurance, and we always had plenty to eat. Enough to pay bills. Enough to have small entertainment here and there. Whenever I got sick, I could go to a real doctor, in a nice doctor's office, and get good care without having to worry about it. Yes, as far as I am concerned, the 90's were good to us.

Here we are, year 2008. Husband's job shut down and moved to Mexico. Lost all benefits. We have no medical. When I get sick (I have MS and cannot get treatment), I must go to the county clinic. County clinic is filthy, long lines, and not treated well. Husband works in call center, and works for half the money he used to make. We barely get food to the table if we come upon a heavy month for bills. But we never starve.
We live pay check to pay check. I have 11 teeth in my mouth that needs work. Cannot go to the dentist. County will not help me save teeth, they want to yank them all out. I am looking at having to have dentures because I cannot afford dental work. It's easier for the poor to just have the teeth yanked.
Husband is going back to college.
We do not have cable/sattelite. We share our internet (aol) account with another family member. We are on dial up. We do not have long distance or all the bells and whistles. Just basic phone. I have a cell phone that is pre-paid for emergencies. I pay a minimum of 20 dollars per month to keep it.
Electric bill - out of control, even though I am extremely conservative. Not sure what is up with that.
We have a title loan out on our truck because my husband's job messed up his pay check and we were left without enough money to pay bills that HAD to be paid on time.
This is the 3rd time my camera has gone into pawn shop.

So yes, I would say that things are bad now. At least for this family.

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 07:47 AM

Originally posted by burdman30ott6
reply to post by TheRealYoda7

I picked up the screenname long ago for an email account that didn't allow any symbols like "-" in the string. Thus the "ott." I strongly challenge you to actually prove the poor pay more taxes in this country when it is a proven fact that the wealthiest 5% of the nation pay 60% of the taxes. In fact, the percentage of the total they pay has actually increased since Bush's tax cuts that we constantly are lied to about by those that claim they only benefitted the rich.

The top 3% pay like 60% of the taxes that is correct. But that is because they are making such a HUGE amount of money. They pay a smaller % though than your average secretary with the top 3 % average of 20.9% and the average $70,000 a year person paying 30.5%. Not exactly fair.

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 10:25 AM
The difference between then and now is that the era of cheap and abundant energy is coming to a close. The United States has built an enomomy, infrastructure and banking system that is dependent upon unending growth and perpetual debt. Growth in energy supplies is necessary to continue this model...and that is where the wheels come off.

Four years ago, many geologists and economists predicted $100.00 per barrel for oil and were laughed at by government and financial "experts". Well, no one is laughing now. It is hard to underestimate how damaging high oil prices are to the American way of life.

World oil demand has zoomed past world oil production. This imbalance explains much of what we see in terms of decreasing quality of life for the less privileged among us and for the militaristic and fascistic changes in government posture. It is not that the world has run out of oil. it is that the rate of consumption cannot be satisfied.

To make matters worse, developing economies of China and India have just begun their oil consuming expansion and are increasing independent of the United States. There is not enough oil getting to market to satisfy this exploding demand. Depeletion of current major oil fields (North Sea, Cantarrel, Bergan) are barely being off set by new sources coming on line and the result is that world oil production has held static at about 85 MBD for the past two years.

Recent announcements by the Saudi royal family that they will not be increasing production so as to preserve a source of income for future generations are ominous signs that perhaps they have overstated their ability to do so. Renewable energy sources will not provide enough energy to support the current world population as energy means food. It is no surprise that food riots are starting to occur around the world. We are necessarily in for a large reduction in world population.

Instead of promoting conservation initiatives and research into alternative energy sources that would help mitigate the level of disruption, our leaders have decided to militarily sieze what is left of the cheap and easy to get at oil. Those who control that commodity will decide who lives and who dies. Sadly, that plan has not panned out a hoped for and it is putting tremendous strain of the world financial system.

So the big difference between past difficulties and now is that the end of the age of oil is upon us and the ramifications of this reality will be extremely unpleasant for the industrialized world, especially the United States.

[edit on 27-4-2008 by brisa]

[edit on 27-4-2008 by brisa]

[edit on 27-4-2008 by brisa]

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:06 PM
As far as poor people getting loans...What do you think a payday loan/advance is?,those places are popping up everywhere.

And title loans against ones car too,so they can put gas in it and keep going full reverse financially,and eventually even lose their transportation.

Taxes?,you figure the banks are paying property taxes on foreclosed properties while they are vacant,I seriously doubt it,this would effect the tax base of the local and state governments negatively,so they would react by freezing wage progression for the lower grades of workers who can afford it least with the price of food and fuel going up so fast,while wages lag behind,and then people being layed off to cut costs as a result of all of this,in all kinds of businesses.

I have seen it myself,where I work!.

If you can't see this,you should hang up your stupid fkg cel-phone,open your window,and slow down enough to see what you are passing.

Americans are so stupid,I am ashamed to be one,if you don't like what I say.....shut the fk up,you have to be blind,you don't deserve to be free,and you are not,go ahead,look around you, you idiots.

I tire of trying to wake you people up,I run into so much ignorance,and outright stupidity every day,that I just quit associating with anyone.

Nobody will save you,you have to save yourselves.

Defy stupidity/ignorance...yeah,righto fellas.

You are living to see the end of life as you know it,and you will have to get off your asses and go get what you need to survive someplace besides wal-mart,and then all the game will be hunted out,and waterways rivers,and lakes fished out,and then what will you do?.

Then you will have to rely on big corporations to supply you with what you need to survive.


A lotta people won't make it.

[edit on 27-4-2008 by chiponbothshoulders]

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:14 PM
I am sorry,these events cannot be dismissed as cyclic when you are effected by them directly.

Several years ago,I altered my lifestyle in preparation for this exact chain of events which are unfolding now.

The status quo can no longer be maintained,accept what is regarded as failure,and turn it to your advantage.

The biggest problem with people,is they fear that which they do not understand,and they destroy that which they fear.

I apoligize for my lack of candor.

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:17 PM
I started to do a reply way back on page 2 but wanted to see how the thread would work out. Glad that I did.

Both views are in a way correct on their own merits. While it is true that we do not have ration cards for food and gasoline like in the past or even and odd purchase days like the 1970's Oil Embargo, we do have a marginal growth period right now. Be it slightly up, down or flat even the growth rate has to be an exponential increase for things to run smoothly. Since we do not have this then banks, corperations and the other forms of money handers have gone from giving to holding. Thus loans, raises, new jobs, grants, investment funding has ground to a crawl. I refrain from saying halt because some do understand that as growth slows things get worse for them.

Are they wrong? Well we all tighten our belts in hard times to protect ourselves, they are doing the same thing. Unfortunately their belt tightening is outsourcing, lay offs, plant closers, wage restructures (firing old and hiring new at a lower rate). In otherwords things that hurt us harder and them slowly.

If I were an invention investor and had secretly a new technology to bring to market that would compete with oil in ways that we would abandon oil I would do everything in my power to drive up oil to ensure that my investment paid off big by immediate adoption. Not to say that is what is going on, but it is a thought.

As far as things being worse. Oh yeah, the potential is definately there. The cost of fuel has made farmers think long and hard about if they should put out a crop this year because there is a huge time and work investment for what may only be a break even or loss situation at harvest time. Many are thinking a temporary conventional job may be a better bet this year for their effort.

Those like me that live 45 miles away from their job are feeling it bad. I drive a 4 cylender Ford Ranger. My fill ups are twice per week for a 16 gallon tank. In otherwords, I use about 1/4 a tank per day just going back and forth to work. A 15 gallon fill up is $45-$50 and can be twice in one week. That is 1/3 of the take home pay. Solutions would be, move closer find a closer job or buy a more fuel efficent transportation. Simple answers are that it takes both time and money to move. Time is the major factor here. A closer job would pay less so things would balance out or be worse. Buying a new vehicle would be a motocycle at this point which would be more money than I can afford (about $1500-$1700 a good used bike) and can only be driven in nice weather aside from the logistics of new license endorcement and insurance for legal opperation and a tarp as I do not have a garage to keep it in. And of course the danger of never having driving a motorcycle in the first place and safety is a factor there.

So the solution is grow a garden to become more self suficient right? Well, not exactly. As we spend less on items, those on top make less money and others under them have to suffer via their belt tightening yet again. It is a vicious circle that is close to finding an end, which is what the big fear is...what exactly that end will be.

Ron Paul proposed following what could be considered isolationism for America so we can get back on our feet. All well and good for America and pretty rough on the rest of the world. It is a somewhat good idea except it is about 20 years too late. Levi's jeans are not even made in America anymore so those first 10 years of rebuilding eveything that has left will be about equal to genecide to the poor in this country. Not that people will die without their Levi's but we don't exactly produce much in the way of oil to meet our transportation needs to bring such things to market let alone getting the workers to the newly built plants to produce goods for the market in the first place. In farming circles it is said that anything less than 150 arces and you are pretty much producing for farmer's markets.

Oil is the crutch for America, but stupid decisions by those that really should have known better but felt the need to compete with the big boys of Wal-Mart and Kroger's et al. Is what put us in this bind that we are in. Of course that 47min video explains all about fractional reserve banking...which is how the bind got started in the first place.

Will we come through all this? Yes. But how we get there is the scary part. Because unlike the old game of Guns and Butter these statistical numbers are actual flesh and blood people. And they could be you or me.

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:45 PM
I am a minister's daughter, and I related to the original post in this thread, I was born in 1960.
Everyone did seem to be in the middle. Politics had a "middle of the road" (remember that, it doesn't exist now, it's either extreme right or extreme left, I miss that middle line!). I was a kid, gas was .39/gal., milk was .39/gal., and ground beef was .39/pound. I think that's right. My mother could stretch a dollar for months.
We had no food stamps, no WIC, no free lunches or breakfasts at school. Handy-me-down clothes from the friend from church had me doing cartwheels down the road (and I didn't even know how to do one, still can't!)
We were grateful for what we had. We had clothes on our backs, a roof over our head, food in our bellies, and a warm bed at night to sleep. We had 3 channels, and a 4th one on occasion, when you could "bribe" little brother or sister to stand there and hold the "rabbit ears" just right.
We had no cell phones, no IPODS, one computer took up a whole room, and when I got married, we didn't have a color TV until the black and white one we brought from my house died, and we saw Dan Rather's mirror image, as on a lake!
My mom got a microwave in 1983, for their 25th wedding anniversary, and they still have it! (even though it takes up lots of counter space!)
Now, we give our kids what they want, and wonder why they're spoiled. I am guilty too. Sometimes I don't feel like cooking. My mother never had that luxury. She still loves to cook, and she is almost 80 years old!
Oh well. Time to drive my 12 year old van to pick up my daughter from church. Why would I want a new one? If it gets scratched in a grocery parking lot, at least my (non-existent) car alarm doesn't go off, because I don't have one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:48 PM
Here are a few more examples of how bad it is, and showing that the worst is yet to come...

I have cross linked this thread with these article-threads.

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 06:39 PM
Just as a footnote regarding the measures one must take to get by,especially now....One of the changes I made in my lifestyle was to stop driving.

In truth,it became too expensive after I made a few mistakes,so with the cost of insurance,and the price of gas three years ago,I decided to ride my bicycle to work,actually had to because there are no buses running from where I live until 10am,and I have to get to work at 6am.

Oh yeah,my car was becoming unreliable at 276,000 miles,and I could not afford to buy another one.

My job is 32.75 miles from my home,in the beginning I thought I was going to die from the energy I spent getting to work in the morning,I was almost unable to function.

I am usually able to catch the bus home,it has bicycle racks on the front.

I have been doing this for 3 years now,I am 47 years old and am in the best shape of my life,I eat less,waste less time on pointless trips to do stupid wastatime things like movies,no longer have patience enough to watch TV considering what stupid pointless # is on it.

Just yesterday,I hooked up my bicycle trailer and pulled it 24 miles to the store to buy groceries and pet food,24 miles one way,Loaded the trailer up with over 200 pounds of stuff,and pulled it back home.

If someone my age can do this,and smoke cigs as I do,what kind of an excuse is there for someone half my age?.

Just thought I might mention this,considering that most of the people I work with think I am crazy for doing it,but then what does that make them?,lazy?................

I make the trip,one way,minimal packload (hydration,lunch,work clothes),in about an hour and fifteen minutes with a tailwind,an hour 45 with headwind.And yes,I do catch a ride with a co-worker when I can.

But in realty,I think people have too much time on their hands,and use it for nothing of consequence anyway,doing things the hard way may not only become necessary,but a blessing in disguise,it was for me.

I think we all create our own reality,some people just think it has to be too easy,they get their ideas of the right way to do things from people who are trying to sell them the things they need to do things that way,if you catch my drift....

If living easy was required for survival,I suppose that we would have had some kind of transportation a long time ago,we enjoy a lot of un-necessary luxuries,and mistake them for needs.

Things can change,and they don't effect you much unless you become too dependent on others to get what you need.But a food shortage would be a real problem,and that is beginning now I fear................

[edit on 27-4-2008 by chiponbothshoulders]

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 07:06 PM
reply to post by azblack

Dude, I find it hard to believe someone could be homeless and here at the same time. In Texas friends take care of each other so you would have a place with me.

Yup, a lot of people find the truth hard to believe until they're caught up in the same situation, or even worse by the time it gets to them.

Here in NY, friends are losing their homes and families are being destroyed.

posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 07:15 PM
reply to post by Asherah

It's easier for the poor to just have the teeth yanked.

I haven't had any medical or dental coverage to speak of since I was twelve years old. All of my back teeth, except for my wisdom teeth are gone. Slowly shattered out of my head over the course of a few years back in my late teens and early twenties.

The pain was unbearable. Beyond being able to cry, and to the point that I was vomiting and convulsing. Not from infection mind you, from pain. I've been shot, stabbed, hit by cars, had my nose broken, none of them touch dental pain. When I went to the hospital, all they did was give me pain killers and told me to see a dentist. But of course, no dentist would see me without payment up front. I ripped one tooth out with pliers. I do not recommend that.

No need to go into further detail here I don't think.

Best of luck with your dental problems.

posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 01:25 AM
It is interesting that people are beginning to talk about their own situations and realities here,instead of arguing about petty billshat beyond their control.
Now we need to get together and do the same thing that the founders of this country did.
Co-operate with one another on a local basis to break free from those who have control of the things we require for survival.
break free from the developing collectivist state.
Pain is a fact of life,what has changed is that no one really cares about anything but their own pain anymore.
I don't have much to share,but I share what I have when I can without putting myself out.
The drug addiction problem in this country,along with alcohol abuse and so on,is a manifestation of people being forced to deal with their own pain without help from others.
Americans are lonely and isolated,desolate people.
Just like the rest of the world,which this country was founded to break free from.
You must take delight in the chaos that surrounds you,it will not go away,there is no one,nothing,that will fix it.
What has happened is that things going on thousands of miles away,that do not effect you,have been brought into your living room via TV,world events do not effect you if you are unaware of them.
Our government brings us most of our grief,the media delivers it to your living room,and you feel bad about things that should mean nothing to you.
Start a garden instead of watching TV.
Stop buying what they are selling,and they will go out of business.

posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 02:14 AM

Originally posted by jetxnet
The US government plan for a New World Order began the day Kennedy was Assassinated and Johnson took office. George Bush Senior is the grandfather of the US version of NWO or NWO Blue. He was head of the CIA when Kennedy was assissinated and spoke out against NWO policies (the video is on YouTube).

Every administration (with the exception of Reagan) since the middle 60s, have sought and implemented NWO objectives according to schedule.

The goal is turn each continent into Unions and then consolidate those Unions under one government powered by the United Nations (which was established during the Clinton administration).

NWO objectives cause a large gap between rich and poor with no private middle-class sector. It aims to control a single population under police state laws. If you are not rich, then you will most likely be poor and working for someone who is rich.

The NWO Blue model is a form of 'light' Communism. The NWO Red model, or China's hemogonistic version of NWO has more strict laws, rules and regulations adherant to thier long-time Communist model of government.

You are being sold out on purpose. Illiegal Aliens from Mexico were allowed to come and stay on purpose so it could be an excuse to form the North American Union (why not? The Illegials are here anyway, right?).

George Bush and NWO architects aren't fooling everyone. Barrack Obama and Bill Clintion are also henchmen of the NWO.

I got this far, and know there is much more to read, but people come to me, all Obamaphile, and I want to cry. Do these people REALLY believe they have a choice??? The Clintobamccain will be elected, if the Bushcheney monster doesn't get itchy and try for the Martial Law before then.

Very lizardish of heart, these NWO sorts. Anyone else notice?

posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 02:25 AM

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
Stop buying what they are selling,and they will go out of business.

I'm suggesting that, overall, what we have left to spend is of no concern to Them. They're stinking bloody rich ten and a hundred times over. They want to keep bleeding us if they can, but they've moved past that phase.

If you want a very good picture of what we're up against, please take a look at this thread, and hope to see all segments still:

There have been problems keeping it viewable in the US of A. And I think every single one of us should see this entire film. I was lucky and saw it before you had to go through it piecemeal.

Also, check out

Please see all five of these (again, piecemeal). The problem exists and a solution offered.

But after watching these two, you will know how bad it is.

posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 08:11 AM
Well, I have to say, we may not be in the worst of it yet. I'm not saying that back in the 80's things wern't bad, but right here and now may have yet to bottom out.

posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 08:16 AM
I make $24,000 dollars a year salary. I'm doing exactly what I want to do for a living. I have 2 degrees in ministry and am currently a youth pastor. I don't get tax breaks yet because I am just out of college and not officially ordianed. I have no other job benefits besides my salary. I have a beautiful 1999 honda accord EX, bought a bran new computer this year, have high speed internet, sattelite, a cell phone with a high minute plan, live in a 2 bedroom home, eat out 3 times a week, and saved $6,700 last year. I also eat extremely healthy and prepare meals that include fresh veggies, fruits, and meats daily........Oh, I live on the eastern shore of Maryland on the penninsula where prices do definately seem much much higher since it is only accessable by the Chesepeke Bay Bridge or the Virginia Bridge Tunnel system.

Things aren't that bad......sorry to tell you. I budget everything and keep very precise records of my finances. I'm living EXTREMELY comfortably on $24,000 a year. I was able to save 28% of my income this year. 10% of my income was also given to my church. I am also starting out this year extremely well.

[edit on 28-4-2008 by Bugman82]

posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 09:20 AM
Its not that its so bad now... its more like the potential is there, and unless the issues facing us are not seriously addressed (and they aren't) it could very easily become far worse than the great depression ever was.

Even if we pull out of this mess, the whole social security issue is still looming not to mention the matter of ever increasing national debt, not to mention an ongoing environmental shift, and in some cases as in many fisheries, an out and out collapse... the list goes on... and the bottom line is little meaningful is being done. Each batch of politicians tries and to put off the hard decisions until they are safely retired and screw the rest of us. Meanwhile the corporate world is out trying to make a buck on everything from feast to famine, and it is wrong, morally, ethically wrong.

Our own greed and shortsighteness will be the end of us as a nation yet.

posted on Apr, 28 2008 @ 12:00 PM
Wow, I registered just so I could reply.
Well written by the way.
I would not mind having to get by with less if it were for a good cause.
But what upsets me is the greed and corruption behind the problems we are having.
Anybody see the profit posting Shell has for the last 4 months? Disgusting.
Anyway, Im glad Ive joined, Ive been reading the posts here for years.
Again, Great post.

Take care,

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