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Is it Really that Bad?

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posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by tdubz
obviously its not that bad. i know there are a lot of people on this site that disagree with that, but my question is, if it is really that bad, how are you on the internet to post in the first place? if i was struggling, i would be cancelling the internet, cable, phone, etc to save money.



I just had to give a quick reply to this. I am struggling and have cancelled my phone and cable. I keep my internet because it is my connection to news and email. Having no tv really sucks, but I try to watch my favorite shows on the internet.

At least one good thing about no phone is no telemarketers calling and my Mother-in-law can't call either.

But we are struggling to put food on our table and yes, the internet may eventually have to go if things don't get better.

I was laid off from my job with the Electric Company where I was making $21 an hour and now I make $7 an hour as a supervisor at a survey company.

So for some of us it is that bad. I can't even afford medical insurance for my wife and kids. What kind of crap is that? I'm just lucky my house is paid for... for that I'm grateful.

Then again, I'm not complaining too hard... before I was blessed with the Electric Company job I was working for less and had to go to the food shelf once a week for food. So things are better, but not great if you know what I mean.




posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by tdubz
 



...how are you on the internet to post in the first place?


I boost a signal with a borrowed computer or go to the library. I have no television or other forms of entertainment. I also use my time online to put out job applications. I happen to be unemployed and homeless at present. I lost my apartment when the rent went up.



And unemployment is not that bad right now.


Unenmployment stats are deceptive. They do not reflect the long term or chronically unemployed. They also do not reflect the fact that more Americans are working for less, and working jobs that do not even pay enough to live on.



Everything in my house is electric, no gas or anything, and to heat/cool my house, cook food etc, my bill is only around 120/mo.


My electric bill was $120 a month, without heat. And that was a single person living alone, being extrememly conservative with electric useage and working nights so that I was not at home. I did have to run a well-pump though, and my heat had electric ignition.



food wise, my wife and i spend about 130.00 a month on food.


That's impossible. You must be supplementing some other way. Even if you only spent five dollars a day on food, not including anything else like trash bags, soap, etc, you will still be up to $150 in a month. You are surviving on less than a dollar per meal? You can't buy an apple for under a buck. I find it hard to believe that in this land of plenty and inflated prices, you are living to the same standard as those in poverty in third-world countries.



so i guess we all need to keep that in mind when discussing this topic.


Regional differences are difficult to quantify into the overall picture. Be happy that you are in a good place for now, and don't tell anyone where you are.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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I agree that our economy is not healthy and we could be in for some rough times.

Much of the middle to poor class citizens have caused their personal financial problems. I owned and operated a 500 pad mobile home park for 35 years. I learned a valuable lesson from my tenants. Don't spend what you don't have. I saw so many people buy a new mobile home, cars for wife, husband and a child. Cell phones, televisions for each child's room and massive amounts of alcohol.

They charged everything. They felt they had to have all the material trappings offered. I began observing this behaviour in 1971. It isn't a new problem. I cannot begin to count the number of foreclosures I saw in my park. The difference now is that it is happening to the higher income folks. The ones that were slurping the gravy. Now there is very little gravy and they are feeling the crunch. It was ok for the little people with the menial jobs. Now that the "big" fish are being to caught in the trap there is all hell breaking loose.

Both sets of my grandparents survived the great depression and had plenty to eat. They farmed and had live stock. They were frugal people. We have not been frugal nor have most of us gardened. It's time to start.
It isn't too late to become self sufficient. It just takes effort.

In the mean time, whenit seems the sky is falling down around us, it is so very important that we maintain a positive attitude. Set a good example for our children. We can and will get through this. Changes are coming. Make the best of a bad situation. Keep family and friends close. Do something constructive.

I'm not an idiot. I know what is happening in our world. Do I sit on my hands and moan and groan or do I make an effort to help myself survive?
Of course the answer is to get off my arse and become part of the solution not part of the problem.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Realtruth
reply to post by mybigunit
 



The chart is bogus. Be they Democrat or Republican all administrations spend.

The Clinton's balanced nothing it was all smoke and mirrors.

Remember this the government produces nothing, it is the largest consumer in the world. It creates nothing and needs tax dollars to survive, when the government gets low on cash because of spending they raise taxes. It's very simple.





Umm of course governments spend money we all spend money the question is do you spend more money than you earn and according to that chart (which is directly based on government facts) the democrats seem to balance the budgets much better. Now Im not throwing my hat in with the dems Im a straight up Ron Paul Conservitarian but looking at the facts once must see that the dems have balanced budgets a hell of a lot better than republicans. Like I pointed out on another thread Clinton had the dotcom bubble and bush had the housing bubble. I think the working class gained a lot more during clintons housing bubble than bushes housing bubble. Clintons bubble only really affected the stock market and people who invested in tech. This bursting bubble looks like a supernova compared to that.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Materialistically, we have advanced. But we now in more perilous times with a higher risk than ever before of disaster.

Consider my frustrating situation: A 4-year degree, paid for in part with debt, barely able to pay my bills even with TWO jobs. My education and excellent work experience have NOT helped me get a "real" job. I still make less than $10 an hour!!!! I tried to get a p-t job at the local movie theater just for kicks but I am "overqualified." I have applied for well over 60 jobs (I lost count a long time ago). It is discouraging when the interviewer complains about being tired due to interviewing people all week. Then you realize 100 people also applied for the same pone position, making the odds of getting hired amazingly bad. SO I tried to join the Air Force but MY DEBT LEVEL IS TOO HIGH.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 03:21 PM
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Wow, I didn't expect to get this many responses. I definitely have a lot of different viewpoints here to consider. Thanks to all!

reply to post by Alienmojo
 



I did want to respond to a question you asked. Yes, both of my parents worked during my childhood. In fact, around 88 or 89 the office my mom was a secretary for closed and she couldn't find another job (small isolated town). Within 6 months my parents were forced to file bankruptcy because they were about to lose our land and house thanks to going from 2 incomes down to 1. This wasn't due to huge credit card bills, squandering of money over the years, or living in a house too expensive to afford. Inf act it was a second mortgage taken out years earlier to help them be able to afford such things as school clothes for me, ever rising utillity bills, and a different truck since at the time my dad's had died and they weren't able to make it with 2 jobs but only one vehicle, so they took out a mortgage. When you've watched you parents go through the embarassment of a bankruptcy, particularly one that wasn't caused by any fault or mismanagement of money on their own parts, it does tend to leave you with a bad taste for the particular time frame in question.

It isn't me having my head in the clouds or looking at things narrowly that makes me say we're better off now than we were 25 years ago. I truly do believe America is better off today, even when trying to look at things with another person's perspective. Things were pretty hopeless at times back then for alot of people. I believe those who say it's worse now are experiencing the old "hindsight is 20/20" phenomina. We all know now that there was a light at the end of the tunnel and America did reseat itself and experience a prosperous decade on the heels of that dark period. I honestly expect my kids in 20 or 30 years when this cycle repeats itself as it always does will look back and say the same things we're hearing people saying today. There will be about the same percentage of folks who view everything with gloom and doom and think the world is worse off and there will be the same percentage of people who will remember a time in their lifetime when things were far worse off and maybe some of them will be smart enough to know that the previous generations saw even worse.

The good times tend to make alot of people soft and far more sensitive than they should be to the hard times. Unfortunately it seems like that trend is getting worse istead of better because every upswing in the cycle brings an even greater level of laziness and contentment than the previous cycle saw.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 03:54 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


I was homeless in the early 90's. Now I am homless again. I have less hope of recovering this time.

A nickel went further in those days, and tin-canning helped get me off the street. That is a futile effort these days. In fact there is even a law here in NY that you can't turn in more than 250 bottles a day.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by jackinthebox

That is intolerably naive. You must watch this video...

MONEY AS DEBT



That Canadian production is one of my all-time favorite films. It should be compulsory viewing for all high school students so they begin to understand how the system works.

It's utterly, completely, definitively brilliant. Any member not seen it, please watch it. Then watch it again. Don't be put off by the length. You'll understand the global economy like you never did before. Really. You will.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 05:15 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


its not that hard to eat off of 130/mo. my wife and i are not cooks so we eat lots of sandwiches, grilled cheese sandwiches, hamburger helper, premade salads, hot pockets, etc. of course most of the products we buy are generic store brand ones as well. hamburger helper gives you 2 meals. (it makes food for 4 and theres only two of us so we eat it the next day too). i eat one hotpocket for lunch everyday and thats it. you can buy a box of 12 hotpockets for 10 bucks. i will say that we choose to go out and eat on the weekends so you could add that money to the 130 but if i really wanted to save more money, i could spend an extra 20 bucks at the grocery store and never have to eat out. also, no sodas or drinks, we just drink water every day. and remember, i also said 2 meals a day. i dont get up early enough to eat breakfast so thats some extra savings there too. it really depends on where you shop too. i have a grocery store here where i live that charges at least a dollar more on almost all of its goods as the grocery store right down the street from it.

[edit on 26-4-2008 by tdubz]



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 

Burdman, obviously there will be a lot of personal responses to your question as we all must draw upon our life experience and current circumstances to formulate a response. To detach from one's current circumstance to assess the actual course humanity is on is harder. Well, we could all probably agree that we are in times of great change and transition. We are all beginning to know that much of what we think we know, is not true at all. So, what does this process mean in terms of what is happening? Is it all just a downward trend toward greater negativity or evil? Or is it more a revealment process, an upward trend, whereby dark forces, that have always been there, are surfacing so that we may discern them and strip evil of its rule? I believe it has to be one way or the other, so I believe in the latter explanation.

Real problems lie, in the case of the so-called illuminati or elite groupings, as I understand it, in their subversion of natural evolutionary or upward processes for selfish ends. ie, their principle of order out of chaos as an occult or metaphysical tool of active manipulation of humanity. This is in fact the harmful side of what is a natural upward process of life. because in reality the spiritual, harmless side of this same energy is harmony out of conflict. this, I repeat, is the natural principle of the monad (spirit) expressing through the soul, to uplift the human race both individually and collectively through a process of purging, of transformation, of letting go, of moving on.

The recent hbo show "John from Cincinatti" develops this theme. John Monad from Cincinatti arrives out of nowhere and all the character's lives are thrown into conflict, disarray, and serious change. Is it all going to hell for them? Well not really, it is conflict as the Light of the Soul is triggered by the Monad. The soul's integration can still be, and is, a matter of life and death. the soul brings us in, and the soul takes us out. But all that occurs, is really part of the Divine Plan and thus moves everyone up.

Thus my conclusion is, not that the conflict is not real, or that there is no negativity out there etc, but that we are in a grand process that is on the upward trend, using the god-given principle of harmony through conflict. welcome to planet earth.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 07:42 PM
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reply to post by tdubz
 


If all I ate was a box of hamburger helper everyday, it would still cost me $180. And of course that doesn't include other things you have to pick up like toilet paper, dish detergent, etc.

And I don't think I have to tell you that hamburger helper and hot pockets are terrible for you.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 08:00 PM
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reply to post by jackinthebox
 


hamburger helper is like $1. The meat is like $2. for 3 dollars the two of us get 2 meals each, 4 total. bread 99 cent a loaf. sandwich meat, 2 packages for a dollar, or if i go with the name brand version is like 4 bucks a package. i could eat an entire week on 10 bucks if i wanted to by just making sandwiches.

and 130/mo is an average. yes some months i will spend more and others i will spend less. toliet paper, shampoo etc i usually buy in bulk and dont have to buy but every 3 months or so.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 08:06 PM
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Originally posted by tdubz
reply to post by jackinthebox
 


hamburger helper is like $1. The meat is like $2. for 3 dollars the two of us get 2 meals each, 4 total. bread 99 cent a loaf. sandwich meat, 2 packages for a dollar, or if i go with the name brand version is like 4 bucks a package. i could eat an entire week on 10 bucks if i wanted to by just making sandwiches.

and 130/mo is an average. yes some months i will spend more and others i will spend less. toliet paper, shampoo etc i usually buy in bulk and dont have to buy but every 3 months or so.



Hamburger helper is more expensive than $1 and if this nation the richest nation on earth the normal working people have to live off of hamburger helper and ham sandwiches then I have news for you it really is that bad.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 08:57 PM
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reply to post by tdubz
 



hamburger helper is like $1. The meat is like $2. for 3 dollars the two of us get 2 meals each, 4 total. bread 99 cent a loaf. sandwich meat, 2 packages for a dollar, or if i go with the name brand version is like 4 bucks a package. i could eat an entire week on 10 bucks if i wanted to by just making sandwiches.


Ground beef, pound of, 85% lean $4.49
Hamburger helper, box of, $2.50

Not to mention the fact that that certainly is four meals, and is still terrible for you. The cheapest lunch meat I can find around here is 99-cents a pack at the Wal-Mart that I have to drive an hour to get to and pay a bridge toll. Bread is a buck and a half for the generic white.

But most importantly, you are still neglecting the fact that if you eat that garbage for very long, it's going to start costing you in medical bills. That stuff is terrible for you, and has little to no nutritional value.

I really think you should re-think how you eat. People are dieing from eating like that. Don't you realize that eating that way is as bad as eating at McDonald's every night?



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 10:45 PM
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Originally posted by Alienmojo

I am struggling and have cancelled my phone and cable. I keep my internet because it is my connection to news and email. Having no tv really sucks, but I try to watch my favorite shows on the internet.

I was laid off from my job with the Electric Company where I was making $21 an hour and now I make $7 an hour as a supervisor at a survey company.

So for some of us it is that bad. I can't even afford medical insurance for my wife and kids. What kind of crap is that? I'm just lucky my house is paid for... for that I'm grateful.

Then again, I'm not complaining too hard... before I was blessed with the Electric Company job I was working for less and had to go to the food shelf once a week for food. So things are better, but not great if you know what I mean.


You guys in the USA have it pretty tough. If you were in Europe you would at least have the minimum wage laws: in UK it's GBP5.52/hour for anyone over 22 years old

www.hmrc.gov.uk...

That's US$11/hour for absolutely bottom-of-the-barrel jobs. I pay my staff between GBP12 and GBP16/hour and we are not located in a particularly high-rent area.

Also, here you'd have universal free healthcare for everyone. And it's good, too. We can't understand why, alone in the entire 'developed' world, Americans resist the idea of this so much.

I am not always a fan of Michael Moore, but 'Sicko' is a career-best and well worth seeing if you haven't already:

www.michaelmoore.com...

www.youtube.com...

I like America, and visit often. I admire a lot about America. But the way we do some things over on the east side of The Atlantic is just better.

Best of luck, mate. Hope things get better for you.



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:03 AM
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reply to post by marg6043
 


Not to mention an America who has burned all of her bridges. Sometimes it's difficult to get up without the help of friends



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:09 AM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 



The American Dream didn't change... it's just a case of far too many Americans are daydreaming instead of remembering who we are and what we came from. The roaring 90's were the exception years, not the rule. We had a brief fling with unrestrained overconsumption and lived way above and beyond our means thanks to a lacksidaisical attitude by banks & lenders and a completely make believe prosparity level invented alongside the .com bubble. People had wealth on paper and suddenly believed they were above middle class when in reality their wealth never translated off the paper and they were in about the same boat as they started out in.


I am from the era of $.50/$.75 gas prices and the other thing's that coincided with that time. The only issue or disagreement that I have with the original post of this thread is "You can't help but be totally affected by our present economy and the fall of big money because of their zealous acts of trust and financial situation's that created these dollar sign scenario's for todays frustrating economy."
So, I do think it's very bad as it seem's. Maybe not for the individuals who can afford the present cost's of living, but for the people of the lower and middle class families that have to choose between food or shelter,?
Like my younger sister says "You can't be picky, but you have to make the choice of food or shelter, but it seem's to never be both."
I am there and I feel the pangs of the influx of our countries current situation.
My 2 cents worth.



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


Burdman I grew up in a family of 9, my father was retired Air Force, he served 23 years and retired 100% disabled. My mom was a mill worker. They raised 7 children between, first born in 1954 and the last born in 1963. In 1975 I was a teenager, I never missed the things that we didn't have due to money being tight, or the economy. We always took vacations, had great Christmas's and birthdays, we wore nice clothes and participated in sports and other school activities that require additional money to do so. I know that there was a gas shortage, but it never affected us that I can remember. Nor did any other issue at the time. However what is happening today is different. The war and it's implications cannot in any way be compared to Veitnam, the food shortages we are about to face were not an issue that ever hit home, but already the price of food is affecting my household, we don't even visit family right now because it costs too much to do it like we normally would. That was never an issue before now. I have to say that this is the first time in my life that the condition of our nation is affecting me and my home, and the homes of my loved ones.



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:27 AM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


You know you can spell 30 ott 6 30-06 right?


....Anyways, nice post.

Why is it so neccesary that we spend 40-80 billion dollars a year in the black budget for the next best air craft?

Why is the poor people pay more taxes than the rich, and NOT only this half the time the poor and midgrade society work twice of labor intensive jobs as the lame CEOs sitting at their desk watching stocks?

The fact is america is in a depression, we are in fact 9 trillion 400 billion dollars in debt.

Your post fails to my sensory.



posted on Apr, 27 2008 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by TheRealYoda7
 


I picked up the screenname long ago for an email account that didn't allow any symbols like "-" in the string. Thus the "ott." I strongly challenge you to actually prove the poor pay more taxes in this country when it is a proven fact that the wealthiest 5% of the nation pay 60% of the taxes. newsbusters.org... In fact, the percentage of the total they pay has actually increased since Bush's tax cuts that we constantly are lied to about by those that claim they only benefitted the rich.



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