Water Filters/Obtaining Clean Water

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


Thanks for the link. I read through it all and there were even a couple things wrong on the ask the expert, but still I won't count on the chemical part which is or could be critical if one was. These have been on the market for 15 or more years so they must be wording the package just right to slip through. I have used them in the wild for that long and never gotten the beaver fever so that part works good.

Still its the longest lasting bug and virus killer going so far. I looked over the UK ones and they appear to be the same thing in a little different case.

Good info.

reply to post by yankeerose


Hi Rose!

200 feet deep is a deep well. I'm assuming that the bore hole is 4 to 6 inches wide.

1. Without electricty..... you have some work on your hands.

a. Make sure that the electricty is "really off", and wont be coming back on anytime soon. ( 2 weeks plus , or its not worth it)

b. You will have to REMOVE the well cap, and Pitless adapter, and pull your well pump, plumbing, pull rope and wiring OUT of the well. 200 feet of WATER will be in that pipe ( 1- 1/4 inches diameter ). Thats a LOT of weight. The pump probably weighs 40 to 50 lbs, plus the pipe itself, and the wiring. YOur easily looking at several hundred pounds minimum.
You will need an A- Frame, and a HOIST at minimum. Try not to destroy the pipe please. Lay it out Flat and long ways in the yard. Dont "Roll it back up" or let it curl up for reinstallation at a later date.

c. You will need a WELL PITCHER, which is a Galvanized "bucket" about 4 inches in diameter, and about 2 -1/2 feet tall. It has a Strong 'swinging handle' on it that you will attath a STRONG rope or CABLE to. The BOTTOM of this Pitcher has a 'flapper valve' in the bottom of it, that OPENS when it hits the water, and allows the pitcher to fill up. When the pitcher is full, you will feel the weight incrase signifigantly, and you can start to haul it up.

d. The flapper valve CLOSES when the weight of the water pushes down on it. This keeps 90% of the water in the pitcher.

e. You will need to use your A- Frame with a Pulley attatched to it, which the rope or cable runs through. I recommend a 12 volt cheapo winch, a 55 watt solar panel and a deep cycle battery. ( TWO 6 volt golf cart batteries are better ).

f. The winch takes most of the work out of it. Its just time.

g. When your pitcher comes out of the well, ( 10- 12 minutes later ), immediately dump that water into a larger container, and do it again.

h. By the time you have dome this twice, its going to be heavy enough that you dont want to carry it very far, but you should have 5 to 7 Gallons ready to go.

i. Next time send the kids to do it.


2. With electricty.... Meaning "GRID POWER" your set up perfectly NOW.

a. Without "GRID POWER', you can Still run your well as it is now IF its 110 VOLTS on the pump, you set up a dedicated Solar Charger on a Bank of Golf Cart Batteries, with an INVERTER that converts the 12 Volts DC to 110 Volts. ( Same setup for the 12 volt winch)

b. You MUST determine the horsepower and "Starting AMPS" ( Or watts) "Load" from your pumps Manufacturer.

c. Your INVERTER MUST be sized to accomidate the STARTING AMPS, or watts, of yor pump, or it WILL NOT EVER START.

d. From Experience, you will probably need 3000 WATTS to START the pump, ( 5 to 10 seconds ) and then something like 1000 watts to actually run the motor.

e. In this case your better off FILLING LARGE containers with your pump in ONE FELL SWOOP, instead of letting the pump cycle on and off as it does now when you "call for water " at the tap, and the pressure tank senses a neeed for more pressure, and kicks on the pump. This will deplete your batteries much quicker, because of the constant START LOAD placed on the batteries.

3. Honestly, I would go to Wal Mart and Buy their Inflatable 550 gallon pool ( Intek Brand ). About 45 to 50 dollars last time I bought one. It comes with its own small pump and filter, and you probably wont need those in this situation, but you can run them in advance of a SIT X if you have a day or two forewarning.

a. They also sell a cover for this pool seperately, that I highly recommend. Keeps out Bird Poo, and Bat Guano, and Bugs and Comtrails.

b. The pool has an inflatable ring at the top about 1-1/2 feet in diameter, all around the perimeter of the "pool". You simply inflate this ring, fill it up.

reply to post by Illahee


Your welcome.

"Slip through" is exactly right and the pun is intended.

Most people just trust the packaging, and 99.9 % sounds Great! ( 1 log )

Until you realize that 99.999999999% is really what you want. ( 9 log )
You also want standardized TESTS, where we all know where we stand.

Please see this link: www.generalecology.com...

I KNOW they sell these in the UK. 90.00 US so 45 Pounds 'S' is about right??

ALSO see the BASE CAMP here : 550.00 US www.generalecology.com...

Does VIRUSES, CHEMS, Radionucleotides, VOC's, Asbestos, bla bla bla... inn ONE PASS, hand operated.

Both use the same technology, both are EPA and NSF rated for PURIFIER standards.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

reply to post by Blitzkreigen


Yes... that is exactly what I am facing. Perhaps a generator would be the best investment of all then. I actually have one of those pools, and was thinking the same thing as you suggested. There is also an old covered up cistern that hasn't been used for decades. If I redo the gutter system, and clean out the old holding area... that will be fresh rainwater for many uses...

Which brings me full circle to find a filter...lol

Thank you for the great reply!

reply to post by yankeerose

Your Most Welcome Rose!

On the generator-

I dont know your situation, with neighbors and such, but generators are very LOUD, I can smell one TWO miles away ( especially at night ), and you have a Fuel and Oil issue.

The solar setup will be about TWICE the cost of a Generator, if you shop it and dont panic buy. But, its SILENT, requires NO FUEL, and can run other things as well. Also it will last 30 years, excluding the batteries.

Definately, if you immediately find a Generator, that will run your pump, for under 500.00, (NEW) go for it! Use STA-BIL in your fuel, or it wont last 6 months with this Ethanol Blend we have now. Also Figure 20.00 per 5 gallon can full of gas, and thats about 5 days worth of fuel 'used sparingly'. The cans are about 15.00 each, and Must be stored VERY Safely.

You could convert it to Propane for about another 400.00, IF it has a CAST IRON SLEEVE inside the Cylinder walls. You may already have a Large 1000 Lb. Propane tank for your home now, but keep in mind that FUEL is hard to replace NOW... Much Less in SIT-X.

When you do the math, and I'm assuming you own this property, and your not moving in the next 5 years, I would go the Solar Panel route, and get USED batteries. The Inverter will be about 300 to 500 dollars, depending on the brand. ( 3000 Watts RUN 6000 watts SURGE or START capacity ).

The batteries will be 30 to 50 each, about 50-70 in wiring, 50 for a charge controller, 150 for the Solar Panel, and 100 for Misc. fuses, switches and safeties. Labor=?

You can ALWAYS ADD batteries, larger or more panels and WIND Power to this system, and Increase your run time.

On the Cisteren,

Go to Wal Mart. Buy a 100 lb. Drum of Calcium Hypochlorite ( Pool SHOCK ) its cheaper to buy in bulk, and you will ALWAYS use it. 120 to 140 dollars.

Fill the cistern with your well water. I dont know if you can BRUSH it with a POOL POLE and a Brush from the top. If you can, brush it all and stir it up well, then pump that water OUT with a Sump pump that will accept large debris.

Fill it back up again all the way to the Tippy Top.

Add a Minimum of 25 Lbs POOL SHOCK ( calcium hypochlorite 65 to 75 % strength ). Brush it again, and stir it up really well. You can leave the sump pump in there, and turn it on, putting the Chlorinated Water BACK into the cistern to circulate it.

I would leave it in there for 2 days or even 3. FULL.

Then pump all this water back out somewhere SAFE.. NOT the SEPTIC system, NOT the Garden. If you have 'City Sewer' service, that is perfect.
The chlorine will kill grass and plants, so that part is up to you as to where it goes. It will interfere with the septic bacteria, so dont do that!

There is probably a sewer cleanout around your house somewhere by the foundation, and this is perfect if you are on City Sewer.

Your Cistern in now sanitized as good as you can get it. Some bacteria are Not killed by chlorine, so you are correct in knowing that you will still have to filter this water, especially after it runs off the roof ( Bird poo, Pollution, Racoon and Rat droppings ) Even if your rain catchment system flushes the first few gallons to "waste" to "rinse off " the roof, its simply not good enough to drink. Great for the garden and flushing the facilities, general washing, and even laundry. I would not use it for dishes, or cooking / drinking without purifying it.

Once again, The First Need is what you want then.

www.generalecology.com...

Dont forget, if you have any advance warning, fill that cistern with the garden hose from your well. Dont wait on the rain.

You can also go larger scale on the filters, to do the entire house, but power is required to have "water pressure" to operate them.

The two 'First Needs' I Listed earlier are both hand pumped.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

If I get the well system set up to be able to get water from it... my water is ice cold, crystal clear and no smell. I live 30 miles south of Lake Superior, and I think my well is some how connected to the old underground drainage system. There is a little inland lake about 30 miles south of me ... it is very cold and deep, and it has an annual smelt run! So I think there is a very real connection to a southern flowing underground connection of Lake Superior to the Mississippi. So my well water is perfect for drinking, and has never shown the slightest sign of running low. I just need to make sure I can still access it somehow.

I love the idea of a solar set-up for the long term situation, and I will look into it further. Right now, financially I am only able to set myself up for about 3 months of survival... but it is amazing once you start to realize where your weaknesses are. I added an add-on wood burner to my oil furnace this past winter. I am adding an outhouse, sauna and garden to my yard this summer. I plan to plant some berries and apple trees out back to better attract in deer. I have decided to go with rabbits instead of chickens because of the rodent problem (disease) with chickens. And I will scour rummage sales for canning equipment this summer. I also plan to pick up a propane stove/oven and a couple of 100 lb tanks of propane. An old HAM radio would be nice too.

My small town has about 25 houses, and their are plenty of old-timers with knowledge of how to live off the grid and survive with out all the modern necessities.

I told my kids we were going to go without electricty for 48 hours this weekend, they totally lost it. The thought of them not having all their electronics, really scared them. They think I have gone over the edge this time... LOL But from their reaction, I think there are many people who are going to have no idea of how to survive with out power, cars, the internet and Wal-Mart.

Now if I could just find a solar charger for my computer where I keep all this survival/emergency info on a flash drive... that would be cool.

Thanks again for the great info...
yr

My money is on Katadyn. This one will give you 1 gallon/minute, 0.2 micron filtering, and 26,000 gallons before you need to replace the filter - which you can easily clean. It's got crazy silver nanoparticles bonded to it, so bacteria won't set up shop. Pricey, though.

I use the "pocket" version. Gives about a litre in a minute, 0.2 micron. Holds up well for what I use it for. I'd want to go for something a little higher output if I was going to rely on it long-term, though.

reply to post by vox2442


Good Filter. Great For Bacteria.

It does nothing for ANY chemicals, FWIW.

Also Not Rated For Viruses.

Great For backpacking, and extended expeditions in the mountains on vacation, in times of Peace and Serinity. Food and Electricty abundant in the cities. People going to Work instead of Working to Live.

Pesticides and Viruses can still be almost anywhere in 2008 though.

Sit- X Demands a bit more, and just be aware of the Katadyn's limitations.

Get even 20 people camping out up and down a 'pristine' mountain stream, desperate for water and food, and you have a Health Problem with your drinking water source, and your filter.

Idiots dump everything in the water, and think nothing of it.

Even Bodies.

Dont take anything for granted in a Sit -X.

Have a dependable backup filter for True Emergencies. ( First Need )

Best regards,

Blitzkreigen

reply to post by yankeerose


Rose, you really have it together!

Great Attitude, and well thought out plans!

The idea of an underground source for you well is probably correct.

If there are any caves in your area though, be aware that Bats and Snakes tend to find their way DEEP underground, especially in the winter.
This means that your well water could still be harboring bacteria and disease from the Bats Guano, or them simply falling in and drowning.

I have witnessed this First Hand at 80 to 120 feet down, crawling through Bat Guano up to my waist, and swim-crawling through underground rivers.

I have seen Many Farmers "Well Pipe casings" coming through the roof of the cave, and into these streams. I always wanted to 'Yell' up one to try to freak a farmer out.
:@
Of course, the Farmers had no idea that their well water was rolling through 2 -1/2 feet of bat guano, 500 feet 'upstream'. Not to mention my wet Dirty Socks

( Actually we wanted to drop antenna wires down a few of these well pipes to be able to comminucate with the Surface, ( 2 way radio) while we were mapping the caves)

Instead we used a Specialized Radio Transmitter to Beam a signal Straight Up, at prearranged times to Map the points of 'rescue' for the Backhoe to start digging, if it ever became necessary. A crew on the surface had a triple receiver set and they would triangulate our position, to mark it on the surface.

Sorry I digress... aww the good old ( younger ) days... I can still smell the Bat Guano though.


I'm totally with you on the rabbits, and for exactly the same reasons that you stated. Smart on your part.

Getting to know your Farmer Neighbors is probably the Single Most important thing , after securing your own water . Those Old Timers KNOW EVERYTHING! I bet you could trade potatoes from your garden and a few rabbits for whatever you might need. I Know you could.


Try not to SHOCK the Kids too much, or they will fight you from here on out. Try to make it fun, and cook smores and hot chocolate. Tell a few Ghost stories at an hour after sundown ( 7:00 pm ) and have a Monopoly game or something for all of you to do as a Family. Dont forget to disconnect the telephone, and set your cell to vibrate for Family emergencies. Nothing spoils a 'dry run' like kids talking on the phone to their friends saying how you are torturing them and keeping them in a dark room. I would give this some serious planning with Them in mind, for now. Next time, not so much... but still 'fun'.


On the Solar charger for your laptop-

The same solar panel for the Well Winch, and well pump will also run your laptop. And Charge It!

The Solar Panel puts out 12 to 14 volts DC. This DC voltage charges your batteries. Your batteries HOLD the 12 to 14 volts charge in a "BANK". You can "withdraw" from your bank at any time, straight to your laptop with a CAR computer CHARGER/ CAR computer POWER SUPPLY that plugs into a car cigarette lighter socket.

On your battery bank, just clip a set of clamps to the batter terminals (2), that has a 'Female' cigarette lighter socket on it. ( just like the one in the car ) Plug your laptop charger right into that, or anything else that runs on a car cigarette lighter.

Your Flash Drive is powered by the USB port, on your laptop, which is powered by the car computer charger.

You could accomplish this with a VERY small 5 WATT Panel ( 50.00 ) a single Deep Cycle Marine Battery ( Boat Battery) (65.00 ), two clamps, a lighter adapter ( they sell these pre- made for about 6.00 )and your 12 volt computer car charger. ( Probably another 40.00- check E- bay for your model ) You really dont even need a solar charge controller with this small of a panel and 8-10 hours of sun a day.


You water situation really does sound Great! The Smelt sounded good too!

Best Regards,

Blitzkren

Wow look at all the in depth posts on filtering water... hehe..

All you need to do is take boiling to the next level... Instead of drinking the water you boiled, you boil the water and collect the steam and run it off into a cup or you could even filter the steam water if you wanted... But the steam will be pure... Might be missing some minerals, but you can always eat some dirt...

reply to post by ElectricUncleSam


Distillation is the evaporation and condensation of water to purify water. Distillation has two disadvantages: 1) A large energy input is required and 2) If simple distillation is used, chemical contaminants with boiling points below water will be condensed along with the water. Distillation is most commonly used to remove dissolved minerals and salts from water.

You are actually CONCENTRATING your Chemical load.

it takes 1 kg of wood to boil 1 liter of water.

Blitzkreigen

For those who need to pump water from a flowing stream or spring this may be of interest:


www.electronicpeasant.com...

No electricity required.

reply to post by crgintx


Excellent Ram Pump, and Extremely Portable!

I was surprised to see only Garden Hoses for the feed and supply lines. That makes it extremely easy to experiment with.

The "POUNDS" rating of the check valve is something that you would have to play with depending on the velocity and volume of your water source.

I have seen PVC check valves with 1/2 to 5 lb. springs, about 5 inches long and about 1- 1/4 inches in "outer shell "diameter at Lowes and Home Depot.

For extremely low flow conditions, they make a 1/4 lb. check valve for Air Blower systems in Spas and pools. an 'Air Blower Check Valve', 1-1/2 inches 'inside pipe' diameter, that might be the ticket with low flow. Any pool supply has one or can get one very quickly if needed.


I'm seeing another project to add to my list here.

I'm curious to know if I can make this pump work on a NON flowing source of water such as a stock tank, that is HIGHER than say a large plowed garden area.

I want to water the garden without flooding it, but still be able to use the Ram Pump to pump water even higher than the stock tank, to the living areas holding tank.

The excess flow through the feed pipe can water the large garden 3 times a week, while slowly pumping water uphill as well ( hopefully ).

I know it will be super slow, but if it works, I'm killing two birds with one pump.

The check valve will keep the water in the line going uphill, from draining back out. I would only have to fill the feed line each time, from gravity or siphon.

The Main valve looks really easy to build, and I noticed it was field adjustable. The black rubber stopper is available in all sizes at Lowes, in the "Nuts and Bolts" pull out trays, where they keep the specialized stainless steel bolts and such. A PVC 'reducer bushing' in the end of the feed pipe will allow this stopper to seal, and the Main valve will thread right into that.

Really Good Idea and Thank You for posting that!

Even if its slow, its worth trying out for under $ 35.00.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

Here is a really great link that covers water treatment in a Sit-X , from all differant angles.

athagan.members.atlantic.net...

The Info is from 1998- 2000, but I know that it has not changed more than 2% since then. I helped write it, and its not as complete as I would like, but its also the best I've ever been able to locate anywhere in 10 Years since.

Best Regards,

Blitzkreigen

Here is a copied post from "Illahee" on another thread.

This is the Best Description of Proper Distillation that I have ever seen.

Actually boiling off the lower temp chemicals first before catching the steam, and not using the bottom 1/3 water where the heavier particles will be.

Well Worth Reposting here:

Best Regards,
Blitzkreigen

< Begin Quote>

Water is distilled pure in two ways. The first is never distill the bottom third of the boiler. All heavy elements and toxics are in this portion. Second when the boiler is first started up Run it open to the air with no worm or catch. Start at 130F and slowly heat up 10 degrees at a time and stabilize at each increase. At 210 back it down to 180 and then back up each time resting there for a bit then as it approaches 212 let it run out a good bit of cloudy steam before using leather gloves to attach the worm or catch. Stop when the last third of boiler is discarded.

You can run the saved water the very same way 3 time discarding the last third each time and get pure fairly water.

There is a reason those old jugs had XXX on them and that was to get clean and pure.


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Oh we have learned so little and wasted the time on mysteries that gather dust. The truth was not in the university, it remains hidden still. ( Illahee)