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Unpaid Utility Bills Soaring As Economy Sags: Mass Shut offs looming

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posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by hinky
 

Let me guess: You work for the government and are paid well to oppose everyone else strugling?
I've seen your posts before. You are Alice in Wonderland. None of the bad deals in life seem to touch you.

Wow, how lucky!!!!!




posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by Charity
 




I understand the point about being frugal and not wasting, I am an American of Scottish heritage and I learned how to save a dollar from my old man, who was a waste not want not type.

Something I believe a lot of folks who are in other parts of the world have to understand about America. Not all Americans have heated pools and second homes and drive Hummers. The fact is the vast majority of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck and many have been doing so for generations. Do not believe what you see on American television programming, these people are not real.

The people from the OC and the good folks on your average tv show are more make believe than real life. Television execs like to paint a portrait of the wealthy, wasteful American who lives a lavished lifestyle and spends all of their time in bars picking up super models. The actual facts couldn't be further from the truth.

What you do not see are the people who work 10-15 hour work days and never take a vacation just to make ends meet. Most of us are not living in $400K + mansions with a Rolls Royce and a tennis court out back. I do agree that a lot of Americans are shallow and spoiled and have ruined themselves by trying to keep up with the very lifestyle habits that I have just described.

And I agree that a lot of Americans are materialistic and many of them, I do suppose, have it coming. But do not generalize and lump everyone together. In my neck of the woods it is mostly middle-lower income families who are trying to survive. We had little to any say in the economic collapse taking place here, but we are the first ones to suffer for it and feel it's effects.

Personally I am doing ok, I work my butt off but I make a decent living for myself. However I can feel the pinch that this economy is beginning to take on me, and I feel very bad for the good, hard working families around me who are losing everything slowly. Not as a result of their own greed or poor planning, they are just victims of circumstance.

And anyone who says that we could have changed the course or stopped the destruction of our countrys economy, I ask you HOW? What can the average Joe do out here but try and make it the best they can, and in the end bend over and take it up the rear like the common man always has? The corporate elite have enslaved us all, and we have been too busy working the fields to notice.

Ha ha, jokes on us, we were fools to ever dream of working hard and getting a fair shake for our troubles. Who knew the system was corrupt and the game was rigged. I for one was brought up believing that our government had it's citizens best interests in mind and I was raised with the old notion that if you work hard and do good things you will get ahead and be successful. Well I find now that isn't completely true.

The game is swayed, we are only pawns in the grander scheme and like it or not we are the ones to suffer and the ones to foot the bill once again. The working man truly is a sucker.



[edit on 4/25/08 by BlackOps719]



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by hinky
We all have bills to pay, all you have to do is live within your means.

All you have to do is live within your means? Might be easy for you, but it's not so cut and dry for most American families. Most of us were living within our means, albeit barely, before the SHTF. My family of four was living within our means a year ago, with about $4.78 left at the end of each month. Today, my extra 4 dollars and seventy-eight cents is chewed up by the time I buy 3 gallons of gas to get to work. Then, by the time I leave the grocery store with food to feed myself, my wife, and both my children, I'm a couple hundred in the hole.

As the cost of living increases, but wages don't, families are forced to cut corners anywhere they can. You can only lower the standard of living so much, when it wasn't that high to begin with.

With that said, I have to say, I take a small amount of offense to your comment. You're basically implying that it's my fault. I never signed an adjustable rate mortgage, mine's fixed. I haven't dug myself any other financial holes either. I don't use credit cards, have no other loans, and was getting along in life just fine until gas and groceries went through the roof. Both of which happened as a direct result of an incompetent, manipulative and self-serving administration. Not only that, but I can't take solace in hope for the near future. Things are going to get much worse before they get any better. I can however, take a small amount of solace in the likelihood that before all is said and done, you'll be affected just as much as myself and the others, thusly adjusting your view on the matter that it's all the consumers fault.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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I've become a cheap skate in my old age. Ya know that BS they tell you about keeping your thermostat down to save gas. It don't worky as they say. Its a mind game they like to play.

In 2003/4/5/6 my gas bill was running $80.00 a month on the coldest months while keeping my temp at 62.... fast forward now.

2007/8 I turned my temp down to 55 all winter and I paid $123.00 a month for the coldest months. Yes, I wear warm clothing and extra blankets at 55 degrees. But my gas bill still shot up.

The sacrifices we must make to stay warm and alive now days.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
reply to post by hinky
 

Let me guess: You work for the government and are paid well to oppose everyone else strugling?
I've seen your posts before. You are Alice in Wonderland. None of the bad deals in life seem to touch you.

Wow, how lucky!!!!!


You know, it's really strange---On ANY of these types of threads where someone is talking about their struggling and how these fuel and energy companies are raping us, there will be a handfull of folks that pop up on EVERY thread DEFENDING the companies and chastizing the people who are suffering! It happens without fail!

Definitely makes me wonder if there is some vested interest there...



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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Here in GA the electricity has gone steadily up since last summer, When I moved to the house we have now, our bill was 200 dollars a month.

In the last 11 years the bill has grown almost 400 dollars.

When the bill got to 350 five years ago we decided to get into the billing plan, that cut our bill by more than 150 dollars.

So we ended paying 120 a month steadily, well since last summer our bill under the plan is now up to 200 again.

And is only my husband and I in the house as my children has moved out of the house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I can only imagine a person with less financial means having to pay that much a month or electricity.

With all the foreclosures plaguing our neighborhood and taxes been increased on the property in the last 4 years, top that with unemployment and yes we have a crisis ready to burst.

[edit on 25-4-2008 by marg6043]



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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It's sad, but it's also sad that that it is the people's fault.

The people allowed it to happen.

When the elections were stolen,
nothing was said.
When the terror was manufactured,
nothing was said.
When the war machine was rolled out,
nothing was said.
When capitalists raped the crushed,
nothing was said.
When torture was executed in your name,
nothing was said.

Now you're cold, hungry, and without shelter
and you finally speak up,,,,,,,,


While i am sympathetic to the people who are affected, I also do believe that the same ones are responsible for the most part, and are taking the rest of us who aren't with you.

The thing is, it really has nothing to do with high mortgage rates or high energy costs, food shortages, etc. but all to do with the fact that so-called american patriots failed to understand or uphold the constitution, and have thus allowed tyrants to install themselves in power and build a police state structure ready to be enacted with a single order.

War was privatized and the cowards allowed it, the prison industrial complex was built and the cowards let it happen, hundreds of thousands of peaceful people were locked up in a crooked drug war and the cowardly sheep who call themselves americans and claim this to be "their" country, allowed these atrocities to take place. If you're one of these ignorant cowards, then this is all your fault and you reap what you sow.

Where is the outrage? Where the hell is the patriotism?!?!

Buried in lies, that's where. Lies from the tyrants and lies from the sheep.

The devil lies to you on the television screen, your pixelated golden calf, and the "patriots" nod their head and agree to the lies, accepting them as truth because it's spoken by the red white and blue framed figure of false supreme authority.

And lies from the sheep to themselves, lies that man's law is just, and that man's law surpasses god's law. There is only one law, and that is the supreme will of allah, which is YOU, not a fictitious figure in the sky. The things in the sky are probably extraterrestrial, but god lives inside you, and is you. And by whichever terms you use to call it, god, allah, jehovah, elohim, flying spaghetti monster, you allowed this to be overruled by man's written law. You know what i mean, there's no denying that you committed sins of blasphemy so to speak, when you allowed man's law to overrule "god's law" and gave your souls (lied to your conscience, self, whatever YOU call it) over to the tyrants who spread death across the planet, leaving a toxic scorched and exploited wasteland in it's wake.

To those still in denial, wake up, look around, realize the absurdity of this whole entire existence in the current state of affairs.

All america and it's complicit partners in crime have created is the world's largest mass killing machine, and it cost us half of the budget of the world's largest economy to do it, all under the guise of national security. Tell me where the national security is when a MILLION PLUS people a year are crossing an unguarded border, yet trillions of dollars worth of death is deployed globally, leaving starving, cold, and hungry people in a land with failing infrastructure, no real education (indoctrination of public schools is NOT education!) and oppressive policies of king george's stormtroopers, but hey, at least we got national security, right? So what if a few million undocumented individuals infiltrate our borders, or if china holds our economic fate in it's hands, we're spreading "democracy". And it costs lots of money to buy enough bombs, missiles, space weapons, warplanes, killbots, rayguns, and mind manipulation hardware to spread all that democracy, not to mention the manpower required. I mean they need all those people to fly prison flights to the eastern europe torture chambers, they need waterboard operators, and thugs to smack people around real good and intimidate them, those kind of people don't exactly work for minimum wage.

So you see, the apathy and inaction that allowed the crooked system to be installed is the first place is where the "patriots" failed, and all the atrocities that we see today are a result of that failed duty. The time for change came and went and the masses sat on their fat asses while the machine was built. Now that the machine is threatening them, they don't agree with it, but too late, it's here now, and it's operating efficiently to complete the enslavement of the proles.

You all built this plantation, now it's time to hit the fields.

PS.

11. On the other hand, the proximity of an army causes
prices to go up; and high prices cause the people's
substance to be drained away.

12. When their substance is drained away, the peasantry
will be afflicted by heavy exactions.

13,14. With this loss of substance and exhaustion
of strength, the homes of the people will be stripped bare,
and three-tenths of their income will be dissipated;
while government expenses for broken chariots, worn-out horses,
breast-plates and helmets, bows and arrows, spears and shields,
protective mantles, draught-oxen and heavy wagons,
will amount to four-tenths of its total revenue.

Sun Tzu, The Art of War

[edit on 4/25/2008 by DezertSkies]



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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Originally posted by dgtempe
reply to post by hinky
 

Let me guess: You work for the government and are paid well to oppose everyone else strugling?
I've seen your posts before. You are Alice in Wonderland. None of the bad deals in life seem to touch you.

Wow, how lucky!!!!!

Hi dgtempe. See ya from time to time.

Used to be DoD. Thought I had a job I could retire from. Then Al Gore reinvented the government. My job was cut in 1999, from +$70K to 0. 4 kids at home. Had to get a real job.

Yeah, I'm a master plumber and HVAC contractor. I have a couple of bucks. I get by. Did it on my own.

I have zero sympathy for the people getting laid off. I was over 45, no pickets lines to save my job. America is the land of opportunity. You just have to work for it, not expect it to be handed to you.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by Unit541

With that said, I have to say, I take a small amount of offense to your comment. You're basically implying that it's my fault. I never signed an adjustable rate mortgage, mine's fixed. I haven't dug myself any other financial holes either. I don't use credit cards, have no other loans, and was getting along in life just fine until gas and groceries went through the roof. Both of which happened as a direct result of an incompetent, manipulative and self-serving administration. Not only that, but I can't take solace in hope for the near future. Things are going to get much worse before they get any better. I can however, take a small amount of solace in the likelihood that before all is said and done, you'll be affected just as much as myself and the others, thusly adjusting your view on the matter that it's all the consumers fault.


Sorry you took personal offense. I raised 4 kids. The oldest is over 30. Youngest starts college next fall. Let's talk about expenses.

I had many lean years. I was just as broke making $40k in 1980 as I was making +$70k in 1998. Never seemed to have enough money with the kids. I know the struggles of a family. Kids are grown and gone for the most part. I have a much easier life, now.

I also know that a family just has to live within its means. If a person can't do that, then they need to make more money. Sounds arrogant, but its a hard truth.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by hinky
 

You know,i wish you well. You did something with yourself. I am not green with envy, i really wish you well. But you are talking how this has hit you personally only.
You do not see the bigger picture.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by marg6043
Here in GA the electricity has gone steadily up since last summer, When I moved to the house we have now, our bill was 200 dollars a month.

In the last 11 years the bill has grown almost 400 dollars.

When the bill got to 350 five years ago we decided to get into the billing plan, that cut our bill by more than 150 dollars.

So we ended paying 120 a month steadily, well since last summer our bill under the plan is now up to 200 again.

And is only my husband and I in the house ...



in the winter i tend to wear flannel...

in the summer i tend to go barefoot/wear shorts & a vest at the house...
take rinse off showers to cool off & keep the HVAC at 70 in the summer and 67 in the winter. my electric bills are under $60 at the high-end and as low as $27 when the weather is favorable (and that includes my TV running 18 hrs and my being on-line ~7hrs per day.
You all should address your $200 dollar black-hole that sucks up money via BTUs.


ang-in-there



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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I don't post too often (lurker), but when I see a thread like this it kind of ticks me off that every one blames the utility companies when you should be blaming the oil companies and the places where we get the oil from. You can also blame the politicians for allowing the oil companies to get away with it.

An Investor owned utlity company cannot raise its rates without state approval, and this can only be done once a year. This means that as fuel (oil and natural gas) prices rise, the rates will not change until they recieve state approval.

A municiple power company can raise its rates without state approval, but municiple power company boards are run by elected officials and raising rates is probally one of the quickest ways not to get reelected.

Your heating oil prices have gone up(oil company/OPEC) but I bet the cost per kilowatt of power on your power bill has not changed over the winter.

The people complaining about the high oil prices are the same ones who will protest the building of a new refinery(Cheaper Gas), nuclear plant or coal-fired power plant(Cheaper Power). I work for a utility company and I am the guy who determines which power plants run and when they run.

Here is the difference in cost to generate a Megawatt of power using different methods.
Nuclear $0.50 to 0.75 per MW
Coal $2.00 to 3.50 per MW
Natural gas $9.00 to 15.00 per MW

These three methods account for over 80% of the power generation in the US. Hydro power is equivalent to nuclear power in price but I don't deal with hydro as part of my daily routine at work.

The biggest obstacle to building new power plants is the environmental and the Global Warming lobbyists. My utility was building a new coal plant when the plans were scrapped due to the new governor of Florida promising no new coal plants due to "Global Warming/Climate Change", other wise known as the weather. This plant was a new prototype that would has reduced CO2 emissions by over 90% compared to an older clean coal plant. The plans were scrapped because our planners were not sure if we would be allowed to run the plant commercially. The plant was switched over to natural gas, which costs 4x as much to buy, therefore our customers rates will have to be raised to cover the purchasing costs of the natural gas vs the coal.

Thre are other sources of power out there like wind and solar. These are great sources of power but they have some serious drawbacks.

Solar and wind power depend on resources that we have no control over, i.e sunlight and the wind. For every Megawatt of solar power and wind power that is built there has to be a matching Megawatt of power availabe forom a power source that we can control (fossil, nuclear, or hydro). Most people that do not work in the industry do not realise this. The federal goverment mandates that all utilities must have enough generation to meet their load requirements or have it supplied by another utility.

Let me give you an example:
Your utility is getting half its power from wind power. Now wind power depends on the wind blowing to generate power. what happens when to wind stops? Does the power company let your lights go out? No, they have to use power from reliable sources to make up the difference so that the lights will stay on. The same scenario applies to solar power. What happens on an overcast day or when the sun sets? The power company has to make up the difference somehow.

Wind and solar are good supplemental power sources but a utility cannot rely completely on them for power generation for the reason I stated above.

I hope this clarifies some things up. If you have any questions just ask. Sorry about the long post.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 07:03 PM
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reply to post by St Udio
 


Udio we have tried everything even changing our inside air and heater unit, replace the coils you name it.

Is no us only is all of us in the area.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by DezertSkies
 


Don't worry, Hungry, Broken, and Angry people are the Loudest people. It always happens like this. Jacobins, Bolsheviks, or pretty much any radical popular revolution goes through comparable phases of inaction and then overreaction.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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I was late on a few bills and now I have to leave $150 on deposit with the hydro company and I don't get that back until I make a year's worth of on-time payments. It is basically government sponsored extortion. If I did that I'd be thrown in jail. And it's only going to get worse.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by hinky
 


No offense Hinky but I dont think you see the big picture here. The fact is The Al Gore guy you were referring to under Clinton and him working class families wages went up 22% and even more than inflation. The fact is under this administration wages have flatlined meanwhile electric, food, gas, education, well pretty much everything has skyrocketed...I mean minimum wage is still $5.15. People are working 2 jobs and 60 to 80 hours a week just to make it. Then they get rewarded for working that second job by being taxed more in fact a higher % than Warren Buffet. I think you need to learn about money and why it is we are in this position before you bust on hard working people who cant afford to pay their bills. I think if you work in America and I dont care where the hell you work you should be able to afford food gas and electricity the essentials in life. As we sit now that is not the case.



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 10:48 PM
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[edit on 4/25/08 by BlackOps719]



posted on Apr, 25 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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reply to post by DimensionalDetective
 


What a Karmatic poor house... Now all those blindsided Republicans who voted for Bush, look like complete idiots as they cook meals on their car engines!




[edit on 25-4-2008 by Level X]



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 12:29 AM
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What the free market morons who voted Raygun into office don't understand is that market economies do not function without consumers, supply without demand is where prices drop through the floor because no one has any money to buy anything, they are too busy trying to pay for the basics.

The big problem is that the U.S. consumer is the consumer for the world, and they have kept the U.S. consumer spending by loosening up the money supply as much as absolutely possible, leading to the largest public and private debt in world history, a market last seen in 1933. Get it? When this house of cards crumbles, the world economy crumbles, because without the U.S. consumer, the world markets have no customers, no demand, and deflation sets in. This means that the super rich lose more money than anyone, because most of their money is dependent on growth. Add in the massive increase in energy prices due to peak oil, and the world is about to get a whole lot more ugly.

It's going to be uglier than the thirties, when people still knew how to live off the land, and survival of the fittest will once again become a significant factor.



posted on Apr, 26 2008 @ 01:44 AM
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While everyone is responsible for their own condition in life, I still don't see it as fair to allow oil companies and such to continuously jack up prices. Many of our paychecks just do not keep up with this. We aren't getting the raises needed to keep up with this.

This being said, I do plan to continue with business ventures so that I do not have to be concerned with money problems in the future.

Troy




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